Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
Thank you.
As An Eagle Flies (A House Arryn Quest)
- Thread starter Magoose
- Start date
-
- Tags
- decide the destiny
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[x] Plan Basics and Friends
- Location
- Germany
Jon would have very few enemies in the Vale if any at all, they are quiet odd in that they seem to be the most loyal vassals on the different kingdoms both to Jon personally and House Arryn.
Maybe there are a few outliers but I dont see there being any huge issues with our vassals anytime soon
Maybe there are a few outliers but I dont see there being any huge issues with our vassals anytime soon
[X] learn to talk better: your vocabulary is rather...lacking
[X] socialize with our peers: you have your milk brother, the cooks daughter the falconers twin sons and the stable master five son time to raise all seven hells
[X] learn to read: the maester gerald lelft a book open with letters on it and words and you wish to learn how to read
[X] socialize with our peers: you have your milk brother, the cooks daughter the falconers twin sons and the stable master five son time to raise all seven hells
[X] learn to read: the maester gerald lelft a book open with letters on it and words and you wish to learn how to read
House Sunderland and the Three Sisters have traditionally been pro Black FireJon would have very few enemies in the Vale if any at all, they are quiet odd in that they seem to be the most loyal vassals on the different kingdoms both to Jon personally and House Arryn.
Maybe there are a few outliers but I dont see there being any huge issues with our vassals anytime soon
House Grafton rulers of Gulltown would lead the Vale loyalists in Robert's Rebellion.
The Royces of Runestone will at least in canon prove particularly grasping.
- Location
- Asia
We could make it a mission to settle the first men clans in the mountains. That would make Vale mostly peaceful and easy to rule.
Aramis
An unwilling witness
- Location
- Who cares?
And the 100 went to the second best roll so far (after the roll for our dear mother surviving). Also, I love your reasons for starting this quest, since I've noticed that "spite-writing" tends to result in better works than "happy-writing".
[x] Plan Basics and Friends
I'd rather have Jon help us make friends than tossing us into the viper's nest that is Westerosi politics.
[x] Plan Basics and Friends
I'd rather have Jon help us make friends than tossing us into the viper's nest that is Westerosi politics.
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williams1996
Alba gu bràth
- Location
- Scotland
[X] Plan Means of Communication
- Location
- Germany
They already live there, so that doesn't make much sense. They just generally don't like Andals and also when we first came to the vale we pretty much kicked them out of their easy to live-in lands and made them retreat to the mountains in the first place.
We can potentially get them to like us more but it would take a some work and us actually being more like the First Men then Andals. Allow them to settle in farmable lands or have them moved to the Three Sisters and get rid of those pirates there for good. Theres a lot we can do but let's cross that bridge when we get to it.
- Location
- My room
Violation of Rule 2 - Do not advocate for ethnic cleansing/genocide
Or we do institute a pogrom of elimination of thee clans.
- Location
- Germany
Violation of Rule 2 - Do not advocate for ethnic cleansing/genocide
Of those we cant control? Definitely.
After all we do need a source of enemies we can readily fight over the years to improve our combat and martial capabilities.
As good ol' Emperor Valkorion used to say:
"A man can have anything, if he's willing to sacrifice."
In this case we sacrifice a few mountain tribesmen to improve ourselves. 😈
After all we do need a source of enemies we can readily fight over the years to improve our combat and martial capabilities.
As good ol' Emperor Valkorion used to say:
"A man can have anything, if he's willing to sacrifice."
In this case we sacrifice a few mountain tribesmen to improve ourselves. 😈
- Location
- Asia
A carrot and stick method should work. The carrot being an easy life in the plains with some limited autonomy like freedom of worship etc. The stick can be being constantly pursued by Valemen, never getting much time to settle down.
- Location
- Germany
...I think this line of thought naive. The Mountain Clans see us as the descendants of the invaders, who took their lands. We live on their property in their minds. Giving them anything,which they consider to be already their right is not going to make them our friends, allies or vassals. The Vale has only a limited amount of prime arable land and I seriously doubt that it is not already being used by valemen farmer. Therefore no lord, knight or farmer would agree to give up their own lands, which was in their hands for hundreds if not thousands of years to some stinky barbarians, who have raided their homes for an eternity, just so the Arryns or one particular Arryn can proclaim himself the one who brought the mountain clans into the fold.
These clans have murdered and raped thousands of the valemen and valewoman. The enmity between them and the valemen is not something we can gloss over or ignore. Saying it will be easy to do or something as simple as a carrot and stick approach will work is naive. This conflict is on the same level as the Blackwood-Bracken feud. There may be some small amount of peace in some periods, but it will always happen again and again till one side has won conclusively.
- Location
- SG
[X] Plan Adventurer
-[X]Explore: You wanted to see your home, the place where you are born. It is so vast, so large that you can only hope to find it.
-[X]Meet The Court: Your father has been praising you and your… abilities to learn quickly.
-[X]Socialize with your Peers: You have your milk brother, the cook's daughter, the falconers twin sons and the stable masters five children… time to raise all Seven Hells.
I believe we should use the boon to pick all the special options, rather than using it on the standard ones.
-[X]Explore: You wanted to see your home, the place where you are born. It is so vast, so large that you can only hope to find it.
-[X]Meet The Court: Your father has been praising you and your… abilities to learn quickly.
-[X]Socialize with your Peers: You have your milk brother, the cook's daughter, the falconers twin sons and the stable masters five children… time to raise all Seven Hells.
I believe we should use the boon to pick all the special options, rather than using it on the standard ones.
- Location
- Germany
I personally think that it's rather manageable.
We aren't talking about taking lands away from already established communities but creating new ones, or if necessary remove a problematic and rebellious groups such as the Sistermen and distributing the available farmland.
Hell, it's not even necessary to have the mountain tribes relocated. They already have decent settlements in the mountains in most cases, which could act as a force ready to defend what mines we do set up (if we even get to a point where we can do that
) what they would need is access to food or other such commodities which we could provide in return for their loyalty.But you are overrestimating the survivalist nature of these kinds of population. A carrot and stick approach is rather effective in most cases, it's either they submit and prosper or resist and die out eventually.
Edit: Also I'm not saying it will be easy, when has anything but finding a horrible and painful death been easy in Westeros?
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The relationship between the Vale and the Clans can be likened to that of the Night's Watch and the Freefolk, and in this case there's no Night King to force people to put their differences aside and unite.I personally think that it's rather manageable.
We aren't talking about taking lands away from already established communities but creating new ones, or if necessary remove a problematic and rebellious groups such as the Sistermen and distributing the available farmland.
Hell, it's not even necessary to have the mountain tribes relocated. They already have decent settlements in the mountains in most cases, which could act as a force ready to defend what mines we do set up (if we even get to a point where we can do that
But you are overrestimating the survivalist nature of these kinds of population. A carrot and stick approach is rather effective in most cases, it's either they submit and prosper or resist and die out eventually.
I mean really, dealing with them is a no brainer, they're not peasants -kneelers, nor are they lords, they're First Men who have long since degenerated into tribes of bandits barely scraping by through periodic raids on the smallfolk and merchants who just want to live.
- Location
- Germany
Which is why the chance for them to accept change is even more likely atleast for those not so against it, a vast majority of them probably won't but those that do want a easier life? They probably will.
I didn't say we can cultivate all the clans. Just some of them and those are enough, it's useful to have a snall more barbaric and aggressive force you can throw at particularly annoying enemies.
Also mountain tribesmen are not In anyway like the wildlings. They have more incoming with the hill tribesmen who serve the Starks, holding to the Old Gods and First Men traditions. Only that House Arryn and the Valemen in general have a low opinion of the First Men due to being Andals and and being followers of the Seven. So any chance of them not being enemies was a slim one from the beginning.
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- Location
- My room
They won't accept anything until their back is against the wall. And even then I doubt that after they regain their strength they wouldn't just go back to raiding and fucking up the Valemans shit again.
- Location
- Germany
Sure, that could happen...if that's the case let's just make sure that the Stick we use on them sticks with them...heh...see what I did there.
Also I doubt that they would break any agreement with House Arryn any time soon. Not when they benefit more by not being incredibly stupid and betraying us. I'd they do, bring out the stick again, this time making sure they stay down...or just get rid of them entirely, through it's worth atleast giving it a shot.
Also I doubt that they would break any agreement with House Arryn any time soon. Not when they benefit more by not being incredibly stupid and betraying us. I'd they do, bring out the stick again, this time making sure they stay down...or just get rid of them entirely, through it's worth atleast giving it a shot.
The main problem as pointed by sleepyanon is that the Clans of the Vale are a blunt and proud lot, as do other First Men in general. Now factor in their history as the oppressed by the invading Andals who came and took their lands, raped their women and killed their brethen and you get a nasty concontion, one which cannot be fixed with Diplomacy because trying to do so would be seen as weak by both the Clansmen and other Andal Houses who have no love lost for the tribes. If anything, trying to give them a chance to surrender is likely to backfire horribly, with all the Clans uniting together to defeat the 'Evil' and 'Cowardly' Falcon and retake back their ancestral lands, in spite of it having been owned for hundreds if not thousands of years, and most of it's inhabitants identifying as descendants of the Andals and faithful followers of the Seven, thus what would have been a relative tricky but easy campaign becomes a tricky and difficult one.
Is there a chance for reconciliation? Sure, but the rolls required to pull it off, as well as the many contigencies needed would be astronomical. To put it bluntly, the potential Cons FAR outweight whatever advantages you might get, and if we do mess up, even if only partially, then it will be our peasants who will suffer for our selfish desire to be a goodie two shoe.
- Location
- Germany
YoYou made the mistake of presuming
I meant to do this via Diplomacy.
Hell no. That wouldn't work, not with the clansmen atleast. We would crush a few of the more rowdy clans entirely in as a overwhelming and complete way as possible, then we approach the more moderate clans, offer a hand and if they don't accept? They get the stick and we move on to the next.
I in no way want this quest or even our PC to turn into one of those bleeding heart, shining knight do-gooder. I personaly dislike such characters and quests tbh.
But by being practical with the mountain clans we could probably get our hands on atleast a manageable amount of clansmen we could use.
We already know we will be trying to remove them later down the line, might as well and try to gain some of the tribes as vassals. If it doesn't work? Kill 'em.
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Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
The Problem with that statement is twofold. One, we do not worship the old gods, which is a deal-breaker in it of itself. Two, you really think you have the farmland to settle those people? Because you don't.... well you do, but trying to get any of the lords to give consent to giving up land is political suicide.
The problem is, you can't get them all to bend the knee. Even if you did manage to get the clans to follow you, they will not bend out of principle or loyalty.
Unless you somehow made them... in which case, good on you.
Not Entierly... I mean, it's almost to that point, but there is one thing that has not been mentioned, that I think will be important. The Faith's intolerance to the old gods. There ain't many gods woods for them to pray in, no weir wood trees for them to say hi to blood raven.
Nothing. Change that or at least promise to change that? You might be onto something.