fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I am hopeful that TE just paralyzes them all. Then they become perfect Qi batteries. If TE can't do that then we need to find an art that can.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Canada
I haven't fully read to the end of discussion yet, so I apologize if I touch on something that's been brought up recently, but there is a point I want to talk about.
While I certainly dont have a problem killing the bandits, I do think the consequences shouldn't be disregarded out of hand. Not from a moral POV, but from a narritive stand point. Ling isn't comfortable killing, and while she may logically see the necessity I doubt that would be the end of it.
I want to highlight that I'm not against killing the bandits, I'm just worried people will see killing them as the end of it, which I doubt it will be. If we kill them then she'll likely have to deal with the fallout. Once again not necessarily fallout from politics or the law, but from her own values, beliefs, and convictions.
Yet, to me, this is what makes Ling Qi so compelling.
Now, I'm talking purely from an individual POV here, but it's how human Ling Qi is that makes me love this story. I rarely feel like the choices she's faced with are as simple as one choice is good and the other is bad.
In the end I think that's what the situation boils down to. Killing them isn't the wrong choice, but it isn't the right choice either. It's just a choice, one that has consequences regardless of which way it swings.
With that all being said, and as someone who doesn't really follow the mechanical aspects of the quest and just enjoys the narrative, I think I'm going to fall on the kill the bandits side of the discussion.
For me, Ling Qi has chosen the path of duty, family, and of putting those she loves above all others. And while I fully expect a little bit (really just a tiny bit) of angst from the decision to kill the bandits I think at the end of the day Ling Qi will strengthen her resolve and remind herself that she was fulfilling her duty to her liege lord, fighting for her friends, and making the world safer for her family.
While I certainly dont have a problem killing the bandits, I do think the consequences shouldn't be disregarded out of hand. Not from a moral POV, but from a narritive stand point. Ling isn't comfortable killing, and while she may logically see the necessity I doubt that would be the end of it.
I want to highlight that I'm not against killing the bandits, I'm just worried people will see killing them as the end of it, which I doubt it will be. If we kill them then she'll likely have to deal with the fallout. Once again not necessarily fallout from politics or the law, but from her own values, beliefs, and convictions.
Yet, to me, this is what makes Ling Qi so compelling.
Now, I'm talking purely from an individual POV here, but it's how human Ling Qi is that makes me love this story. I rarely feel like the choices she's faced with are as simple as one choice is good and the other is bad.
In the end I think that's what the situation boils down to. Killing them isn't the wrong choice, but it isn't the right choice either. It's just a choice, one that has consequences regardless of which way it swings.
With that all being said, and as someone who doesn't really follow the mechanical aspects of the quest and just enjoys the narrative, I think I'm going to fall on the kill the bandits side of the discussion.
For me, Ling Qi has chosen the path of duty, family, and of putting those she loves above all others. And while I fully expect a little bit (really just a tiny bit) of angst from the decision to kill the bandits I think at the end of the day Ling Qi will strengthen her resolve and remind herself that she was fulfilling her duty to her liege lord, fighting for her friends, and making the world safer for her family.
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- Location
- At the end of the world
Winter is coming.
[x] Alectai
He doesn't actually claim to be a Bai though? He just says that you can't expect peasants to match a Bai, with the implication being that he himself is a Bai. As long as he doesn't actually introduce himself or otherwise explicitly claim a connection to the Bai there won't be any proof. Yeah it means he's in a position where he has to win or die, but these of sorts of missions/raids tend to work that way regardless.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
[X] Simple five-point plan
Because I like the idea of playing more support to CRX here, and trying to make the troops more effective. I do think @Erebeal should be trying to get Echoes up sooner as it provides potent buff to attack as well significant downgrade of the 'Bai' own penetration (which seems to be his weak point), though. I think one point of contention is that Erebeal seems to be unsure that the detonation is a 'free action' that we can do while doing other things.
Still, there are advantages in focusing to quickly and effectively going detonate => LW, as it assures to put all the greens out of play, and we can then concentrate on supporting both CRX against the Bai, and everyone else to be more effective.
That, and it feels like under the narrative system there is a greater 'bonus' for weaklings when using support arts, so they become more relevant than would be obvious.
There is some measure of pain by not going offence at all in the plan, but I guess we could pivot toward more offence when the supporting is down and the bandits are cleaned up completely, and it becomes 'everyone gank the 'bai''
Because I like the idea of playing more support to CRX here, and trying to make the troops more effective. I do think @Erebeal should be trying to get Echoes up sooner as it provides potent buff to attack as well significant downgrade of the 'Bai' own penetration (which seems to be his weak point), though. I think one point of contention is that Erebeal seems to be unsure that the detonation is a 'free action' that we can do while doing other things.
Still, there are advantages in focusing to quickly and effectively going detonate => LW, as it assures to put all the greens out of play, and we can then concentrate on supporting both CRX against the Bai, and everyone else to be more effective.
I would have said those would be useless because he doesn't do spiritual, and he could oneshot anything, but we actually can't be sure every opponent would be down after detonation of TE, so this would put our troops as a direct advantage against the remnant of his.
That, and it feels like under the narrative system there is a greater 'bonus' for weaklings when using support arts, so they become more relevant than would be obvious.
There is some measure of pain by not going offence at all in the plan, but I guess we could pivot toward more offence when the supporting is down and the bandits are cleaned up completely, and it becomes 'everyone gank the 'bai''
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So this is how the Fang Way bonus from the Bloody Moon dream manifests: a memory of bloodlust and the reason for vengeance. I wonder where it can be perceived — do people feel it in Ling Qi's Domain? Her aura?
Ling Qi's specced pretty hard into an anti-army build, so it's not surprising this display of local climate-warping is so big. But the sheer awe of her mist in its magnitude requires note. Very poetic.
...Zhen will "bite anyone who tries to hurt Big Sister," huh?
A reminder, Zhen's venom is basically napalm — everybody he's biting and injecting with his venom? They're literally burning alive from the inside-out.
Dragonflies are native practically everywhere that's not freezing and has large-enough bodies of calm water to breed in — which describes both Thousand Lakes and Red Garden. I'm inclined to balance this as slightly in favor of Sun faction, solely due to the bee woman in Dark Dreams. An entirely spurious connection, I know.
Purple poison is associated with Yin Earth, as seen in AE. Both Bai and Sun are equally likely to have equipped their soldiers with something like this.
On the balance of Bai-trick or Sun-trick, this doesn't really help, as to be expected. All we've seen of either two factions were from the high nobility, who won't be using the mass-produced talismans for their common soldiers. Bone weaponry weren't used by the jungle barbarians back in Dark Dreams — they used bronze — and both Bai and Sun can plausibly have their reasons to give such to their soldiers. All-concealing armor also is also plausible for both factions: the jungle had those omnipresent insects, and concealing armor is always useful for stealth specialists.
[X] Simple five-point plan
Bullet points ftw
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Simple five-point plan
- Location
- United States of America
Alright, a bit late to the party, but here I go!
I'm glad that others immediately spotted what I spotted, and that is that we need to unleash TE so that Cai can appropriately see the threat and begin coordinating the attack. Haven't looked that much at the plans yet, but getting Zhengui, Hanyi, PLR, FVM, Cai, and her saber and gown with us to attack the Bai and his companion means that there will be a 4:1 multi-attacker bonus in our favor. This advantage basically evens up the difference between Cai and the Bai due to cultivation as well as evening up the difference between Zhengui/Hanyi and the Bai's companion. With those advantages that the Bai have mitigated, the fight should be a lot easier for us, especially with the Cai group buffs and our group buffs.
Now, for some of my reactions regarding the shenanigans pulled off in this chapter.
Cai: "It appears Baroness Ling is determined to stop the bandits in their tracks."
Random Ally: "She can do THAT! Will there be anything for us to do when we get there?"
Cai: "Likely not, unless we hurry. Come now, time to pick up the pace."
I'm glad that others immediately spotted what I spotted, and that is that we need to unleash TE so that Cai can appropriately see the threat and begin coordinating the attack. Haven't looked that much at the plans yet, but getting Zhengui, Hanyi, PLR, FVM, Cai, and her saber and gown with us to attack the Bai and his companion means that there will be a 4:1 multi-attacker bonus in our favor. This advantage basically evens up the difference between Cai and the Bai due to cultivation as well as evening up the difference between Zhengui/Hanyi and the Bai's companion. With those advantages that the Bai have mitigated, the fight should be a lot easier for us, especially with the Cai group buffs and our group buffs.
Now, for some of my reactions regarding the shenanigans pulled off in this chapter.
Glad that stealth got some love here. Being able to study your opponent for weaknesses and strengths before they know you're there is valuable for any combat preparation.
Random Ally: "WTF is that!"
Cai: "It appears Baroness Ling is determined to stop the bandits in their tracks."
Random Ally: "She can do THAT! Will there be anything for us to do when we get there?"
Cai: "Likely not, unless we hurry. Come now, time to pick up the pace."
Given his ability to remain hidden, and his possession of the Cai package, it is slightly confusing that he didn't simply run full bore for the border and left this group as a sacrifice to slow us down. Makes me think that getting the package is a secondary concern and humiliating the Cai is the real reason he's here. If that's the case, well... he's likely bitten off a bite that will be much harder for him to finish than expected. In fact, he might just choke on his decision to reveal himself now.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
[X] Simple five-point plan
Seems like a reasonable amount of detail while leaving things open for change depending on how the fight goes, which is probably the most important thing (letting Ling Qi respond as adequate). Also, clearing the field sooner rather than later seems highly important, as Cai doesn't have visual of the field yet, which likely matters more than any extra bonuses we get from keeping the mist up at this point.
Seems like a reasonable amount of detail while leaving things open for change depending on how the fight goes, which is probably the most important thing (letting Ling Qi respond as adequate). Also, clearing the field sooner rather than later seems highly important, as Cai doesn't have visual of the field yet, which likely matters more than any extra bonuses we get from keeping the mist up at this point.
- Location
- Canada
Matching clothing
Movement that is distinctively recognizable... a gliding slithering motion perhaps? Like Meizhen when she's moving quickly?
Poisonous arrows, not unique, but still another indicator
well... it would appear there is more than one Bai in this group
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- Location
- California
Upon further thought, TehChron's arguments are pretty good. The main risk factor with Gank the Snek is putting CRX and her army in danger, but that seems fairly unlikely to happen with how she handled the Thunderdome while being at peak Yellow. In this plan, we should be able to take out the snake relatively quickly. This matters a lot as the difficulty of the battle increases significantly if the snake is able to coordinate with the Green 5. The two of them likely have strategies that make strong use of teamwork, as we do with Zhengui.
We've seen some of the the things Cui can do (although this snake should be innately weaker, her cultivation is higher than Cui at the tournament), so I think there's a significant chance the snake can escape and start wreaking havoc together with the Green 5 if we simply let Zhengui and potentially Hanyi stall her until the end of the battle. Even if they do eventually manage to take out the snake, it will likely take quite a while. If we coordinate with our spirits however, it will be a lot tougher for the snake to escape to coordinate with the Green 5. Even if our spirits' taunts fail, Ling Qi's high mobility makes it a lot tougher to run away. We'll theoretically be able to eliminate the snake pretty quickly, leaving all of us to team up on the Green 5.
[X]Plan Gank the Snek
We've seen some of the the things Cui can do (although this snake should be innately weaker, her cultivation is higher than Cui at the tournament), so I think there's a significant chance the snake can escape and start wreaking havoc together with the Green 5 if we simply let Zhengui and potentially Hanyi stall her until the end of the battle. Even if they do eventually manage to take out the snake, it will likely take quite a while. If we coordinate with our spirits however, it will be a lot tougher for the snake to escape to coordinate with the Green 5. Even if our spirits' taunts fail, Ling Qi's high mobility makes it a lot tougher to run away. We'll theoretically be able to eliminate the snake pretty quickly, leaving all of us to team up on the Green 5.
[X]Plan Gank the Snek
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- Location
- United States
Also if Ling Qi and spirits can't take out the snake quickly I can only imagine it would be much worse if it could coordinate with its master. It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where Ling Qi separating the snake from him leads to a better match up for him against CRX.
Huh, i just thought of something.
My read on @Alectai 's plan was that it was going SEA -> Echoes -> nuke, and my feeling was that this would be too slow and delay our regrouping. His argument, as I understand it, is that he thinks detonation is a free action and so we can do something like TE + SEA -> Echoes...
While we haven't had a ruling on that, it has just occured to me that there is another way to look at this: Cai's troops are over 400m away. I'm not sure that even she can cross that distance instantly, and our troops certainly can't. In the old system, it would be at least two turns. That means that if we're waiting to regroup with them before spooling up our group defense buffs, we potentially have downtime. We could use that to eat people's souls with HC, but we could also use it to bring up Echoes to help dampen the power of the arrows flying at us...
My read on @Alectai 's plan was that it was going SEA -> Echoes -> nuke, and my feeling was that this would be too slow and delay our regrouping. His argument, as I understand it, is that he thinks detonation is a free action and so we can do something like TE + SEA -> Echoes...
While we haven't had a ruling on that, it has just occured to me that there is another way to look at this: Cai's troops are over 400m away. I'm not sure that even she can cross that distance instantly, and our troops certainly can't. In the old system, it would be at least two turns. That means that if we're waiting to regroup with them before spooling up our group defense buffs, we potentially have downtime. We could use that to eat people's souls with HC, but we could also use it to bring up Echoes to help dampen the power of the arrows flying at us...
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
They're not far from entering the mist's AoE, and we can't afford to protect them. Better to not take the risk.
Going to work then. 5 point plan is essentially mine as far as I can tell, just with a less fancy name?
As far as i can tell the only difference is that it doesn't use Springs End Aria and mentions trying to catch the Bai in Travellers End if possible.
Adding to this, I also have some thoughts on our "LW the greens" plan.
The thing is that LW isn't really fire and forget. It needs us to keep them within IPF, which has a much smaller range than FVM.
It makes sense if we're pinning them for our troops to pile on them, but that might not be the way things go. For example, it is quite possible - indeed likely - that Renxiang is going to rocket off ahead and try to pin down our Bai friend here. Letting a Green 5 archer sit around to take potshots is probably not a good idea afterall. In this case then we would want to be going off to support her, and leaving the bandits behind for our troops.
LW then won't be very useful (and might just waste time if we're wanting to make sure we've got Echoes and buffs up on us an Renxiang asap).
A possible alternative then could be something like:
[] Better five-point plan
-[] immediately detonate TE to even the odds and clear the way for our troops. See if we can catch the Bai in the blast with a quick dash forward, but don't worry if he avoids.
-[] Spool up Echoes to dampen the incoming fire while we move to regroup with Renxiang. Take potshots with HC to recover qi if there's time.
-[] Support Renxiang with defensive buffs (though don't spread expensive techs like HRA around on everyone - keep those to the greens)
-[] Hanyi: ranged dps support with Zhengui. Do not pull aggro from Bai or his snake.
-[] Zhengui: keep snake busy while Renxiang and we engage Baidude
The thing is that LW isn't really fire and forget. It needs us to keep them within IPF, which has a much smaller range than FVM.
It makes sense if we're pinning them for our troops to pile on them, but that might not be the way things go. For example, it is quite possible - indeed likely - that Renxiang is going to rocket off ahead and try to pin down our Bai friend here. Letting a Green 5 archer sit around to take potshots is probably not a good idea afterall. In this case then we would want to be going off to support her, and leaving the bandits behind for our troops.
LW then won't be very useful (and might just waste time if we're wanting to make sure we've got Echoes and buffs up on us an Renxiang asap).
A possible alternative then could be something like:
[] Better five-point plan
-[] immediately detonate TE to even the odds and clear the way for our troops. See if we can catch the Bai in the blast with a quick dash forward, but don't worry if he avoids.
-[] Spool up Echoes to dampen the incoming fire while we move to regroup with Renxiang. Take potshots with HC to recover qi if there's time.
-[] Support Renxiang with defensive buffs (though don't spread expensive techs like HRA around on everyone - keep those to the greens)
-[] Hanyi: ranged dps support with Zhengui. Do not pull aggro from Bai or his snake.
-[] Zhengui: keep snake busy while Renxiang and we engage Baidude