Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- New York
The difference between the two plans have been debated a little by this point. I'm just focusing on a few things. How much does Qi know about leading people and controlling them the way the control plan needs? Like what and where would she know how to do that? Like I believe she could but she has never directly done something like that. Also when we do our surprise burst of mist for Alectais plan it's not easy for them to escape. The mist is pretty large and I can't picture any yellows or reds being able to get out. Though we run into stealth risks, and direct counters to what we do. It's also our speciality, and while the other plan leveraged it as well it's still pretty reactive. Most of all their is a disturbing lack of oversight it seems to what our enemy would be doing. It feels like we are guiding their path and setting traps, but who says every single one of them will go through it?
Still not sure but leaning Alectias plan.
Edit:
Saw that there is oversight but it still seems pretty easy for something to go wrong.
Still not sure but leaning Alectias plan.
Edit:
Saw that there is oversight but it still seems pretty easy for something to go wrong.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It doesn't say that it kills them either. Damage is an abstraction it could mean many different things. It does say that it paralysis them.
If you don't want to kill them then you should be supporting using TE as our main source of damage.
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- Location
- United States of America
Uh... Damage generally means damage to the health of the target. It can be reduced by armor or mitigated by avoid, but damage isn't an abstraction. It has a connection to health in the mechanics. And when health reaches zero, it's game over. Either knocked unconscious or killed depending on what's happening and the durability of the target.
Here's Call to Ending
Which also doesn't indicate that it will kill them. But we know that Call to Ending will kill. Traveler's End is different in that it doesn't describe exactly what it is doing, but a spiritual attack that does damage will deal damage. Which means it has the potential to kill.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
One problem I had with the plan control and capture is the chasing people down part. I know the idea is to get everyone but I feel like so many more things could go wrong with abandoning our mist. If we encounter these bandits supporters while chasing someone we will likely have to call the mist to use which will free the bandit group.
It feels like the plan is creating to much distance between ling qi and her powerbase (fully charged up AOEs) for me to feel comfortable in this unknown situation.
It feels like the plan is creating to much distance between ling qi and her powerbase (fully charged up AOEs) for me to feel comfortable in this unknown situation.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
I am pretty sure we can make multiple mists. We tie one up, then when we chase down other people we do another.
OTOH, even if we can't, we do have PLR that is now very much combat viable.
@yrsillar We actually don't know for sure how Traveller's End works when it comes to 'leaving the mist behind'. Can we leave the mist behind (with people trapped) and chase down others, and then do another round of FVM? Because that is how I think @AbeoLogos is having the Plan Control work.
- Location
- Espoo, Finland
For me question is is about goals Ling Qi sets for herself. I can imagine her killing people, but mostly as a sort or collateral damage and not as a primary strategy. (As seen fron Moon quest IMHO)
I agree with Neshuadakal about problems with chasing people part in Control plan.
I might change my mind about this vote, but I intend to vote a plan that reflects how I imagine Ling Qi approaching problems.
It seems to me that Ling Qi is likely to be right about being able to solo this encouter if needed. Most important question then is how she goes about it and what her strategy tells us about her.
- Pronouns
- They/It
[x] Plan Control and Capture
Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
I'm not sure I agree that Control Plan is the plan that concerns itself most with not letting people escape. Night Parade sneaks up on the group, ensnares the whole bunch, then nukes them if it looks like we're getting pressed/losing control due to surprise 3rd Green.
Control on the other hand, hints at our presence when we try to lead them to a rougher path (giving them opportunity to split/muster defences/sneak away/prepare counter), then gives a further chance for the situation to spiral downhill if a Green flits about outside our mist.
Like, if we have 2 Greens and a bunch of mooks in our mist, and we need to not pay attention to them for a while to deal with the 3rd Green, I think nuking everyone is a surer method of making sure no one escapes rather than leaving Zhengui and Hanyi to manage them.
- Location
- United Kingdom
I'd say she has a not-insignificant chance of solo-ing them with her spirits if we leave out the potential Third Realm scout they have.
With them? We can't afford to assume victory is assured, especially since their win condition isn't based on a stand up fight, but instead getting 1) the package and 2) themselves across the border.
- Location
- New York
The real issue is if the shipment is carried in special rings(unlikely to tell the truth) or not with the main army. That's why alectias plan works well if those two aren't true. Our main goal isn't even truly capturing or defeating the bandits. Like sure that would be amazing, and capturing some would be pretty easily done. The real goal is the shipment. So Alectais plan forces confrontation, but removes the chance of escape. The only issue is something specifically countering us. And the mysterious third realm, who worst case isn't with the main army and comes back to blindside us. The only reason I'm still supporting Alectais plan is that it makes them react to us, not giving them time to come upwith something the way the other will. Also best case of no escapes. And like some people said, our entire build is super powerful against these situations, we kinda gain a huge advantage sticking to what we are best at. And we have a couple ultimate kill moves( admittedly most involving JT and some attack). I just think we have more control of the situation attacking like this. Though I think stealthing Zheng ahead of them then attacking when they near him so we gain another advantage would be pretty cool. Especially with Hanyi with him.
I dont like that plan as much and here is why:
1) the first step of the plan relies on staying hidden, but at the same time, it uses our music arts to hinder the enemies and I dont trust our stealth enough to keep us hidden while doing so
2) building up FVM only after they are all in range means that we have 70+ cultivators with disciplined military training that can contest our build-up, and given that they can hear the song, I think that they are going to notice it as the attack that it is.
3) PLR has a much smaller range than FVM (Close (100m) vs very Far (400)) and Lunatic Whirl can only affect up to 6 opponents at any one time, so it isnt that great for capturing the entire group
and 4) this is a 'real' fight, not just a friendly one and our opponents are a small army that have sacked a small town already, so they wont go for mercy. Therefore, going for pure capture strategies means we are confident that we can still win while doing so. Given that everything that has been said in the last chapter, I fully expect there to be some unexpected problem, be it in the form of sudden enemy reinforcements, a superior cultivator or maybe treason from an ally. If any of that happens while the 70+ large group is still able to fight, then that could become really difficult for us.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
No one's assuming it'll be casual.
But I am assuming it can be done in a short time frame between a boosted CDE, Sixiangs own Perception boosts, and Ling Qi's own Advanced Perception Skill. The Assassin will be good, but they got the drop on a drugged retired Third Realm soldier, and happen to be confounding a bunch of second realm scouts sent to track the main group.
So the odds are good that Ling Qi can succeed where they failed.
That being said, the Assassin wont be someone that can fight on even terms with Ling Qi unless they're either massively overleveled or a Count+ noble scion at peer-level cultivation. That's just the reality of how high Ling Qi can punch up.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
To add to this, I'd say the main worry I have about the third Green isn't that they can take us in a fight, but what happens if they strike whilst we're busy trying to stall the rest of them, which is why I'd rather try and find them first.
Admittedly this has all been said before, but then that's why I voted for If It Bleeds.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
I think we are reading the plans very, very differently. @Alectai, @AbeoLogos please correct me if I am wrong.
Plan Parade:
- Preparation of the encounter focus on getting there as fast as possible so that they have less time to run, and deploy FVM at the right timing so that they can't prepare against it first.
- Contingencies are about what to do against trump cards of enemies that are dangerous to us.
Plan Control:
- Preparations are about slowing them down until we find good places for the confrontation. Ling Qi go in front of them so they can't escape toward the border without going through her.
- Contingencies are about what to do if they split up and run, or if they have ways to bypass FVM and split up after they are losing the fight.
Control has contingencies in case they split up, and goes in front so that they can't split up well before meeting her, but no contingencies in case of "they are stronger than us". Parade is the opposite, and has contingencies in case they are super dangerous, but nothing if when we approach with FVM only ten guys stand to occupy us while everyone else runs away.
@naths I have no clue what your arguments are, because they are not relevant to the plan at all. It doesn't do most of those things.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, this all boils down to the "Imperfect Information" gremlin, their capabilities are almost entirely unknown on account of them having a nigh absolute intelligence advantage. I'm more inclined to believe that our crowd control and mobility denial--which is a core aspect of one of our core arts--will be effective if we can catch them into it, and the radius of FVM when dropped on them with maybe two, three actions to respond is going to catch the entirety of the 'Bandit' force, given how even a Sect trained peak yellow is going to have a hard time moving 400 meters in an instant if Argent Storm is any indication. I'm also willing to bet that our perception gates aren't trivially ignored by their force, because that runs into the 'If they're that much stronger than us, our lose condition was trying to compete at all' problem.
Now, I will concede that turning their escape route into a hellish icescape with prepared mists at the few dry spots might be a worthwhile move. We just need to delay them after all--but they're prepared for having to navigate a marsh--already a space with poor footing. I'm not confident in how changing the type of bad footing will work in that case. That being said, it's not a bad idea in principle--certainly it probably won't be expected, and it limits direct contact with the enemy formation, which is a good idea--but much of the win condition here revolves around assuming they have no agency, or that they don't have the tools to deal with bad terrain.
I feel we need to try and earn at least half an hour of time to succeed here, I'm not certain if we'd get that by altering the particular badness of the terrain. But we might, which is why I'm not discounting it out of hand.
Now, I will concede that turning their escape route into a hellish icescape with prepared mists at the few dry spots might be a worthwhile move. We just need to delay them after all--but they're prepared for having to navigate a marsh--already a space with poor footing. I'm not confident in how changing the type of bad footing will work in that case. That being said, it's not a bad idea in principle--certainly it probably won't be expected, and it limits direct contact with the enemy formation, which is a good idea--but much of the win condition here revolves around assuming they have no agency, or that they don't have the tools to deal with bad terrain.
I feel we need to try and earn at least half an hour of time to succeed here, I'm not certain if we'd get that by altering the particular badness of the terrain. But we might, which is why I'm not discounting it out of hand.
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