[HALP] me! (WORM quest)

I spent some time looking at our research options and mechanics to figure out how to optimize things.

Short version: We really need to focus on the better research skills first, unless there is a crucial item to finish. In general, we should to stick to our number of research slots (currently 2). The only time to research lots of things in a single turn is if we have a ton of items that are already finished due to omake or quest completion bonuses. Research Omakes continue to be more efficient at getting your desired research done than putting it in a research slot.

Longer version: According to the mechanics, each researched item gets 1d100/x+INT, where x is a penalty if we use more than our allowed slots. The penalty gets progressively worse, doubling for each extra slot you use, so before long the roll just goes away and all you are doing is adding our INT stat of 18 to each thing researched. Focused Research 1 gives an additional 1d100 to the first slot.

With two slots open, we currently get 3d100+18*2=186 research points per average day. Trying to research more things reduces that total and spreads it across more items, so progress is slower all around. (Technically we could choose to research everything in the list simultaneously, which by these mechanics would increment each one by 18. Since there are 30 things, that's a total of 540 points each day. I have a feeling Vhal would nerf this exploit if we tried that, though, and it would be slower to get the things we actually want.)

There are three "better research" skills open to us right now. Faster Research 2 gives us an extra slot (+68 points per day), while Focused Research 2 and Improved Research 1 each give an additional roll (+50 points per day), either to the first slot or spread across all slots. I think we should prioritize completing these so the rest of our tech tree exploration can improve.

FYI, we've applied research or bonuses to the following:

• Multi-Host Connection Assume Direct Control (100-100=0)
• Empathic Transmission (400-100=300)
• Faster Research 2 (750-100=650)
• Better Memetic Separation (450-150=300)
• Stabilize Trigger (Human) (850-250=600)
• Basic Dimensional Theory 1 (500-250=250)
• Stranger Danger 1 (300-100=200)
• Administrative Censorship (1000-150=850)

In my view a case can be made for putting Stranger Danger or Stabilize Trigger into our second research slot, and once we have improved our research capacity all of these deserve some attention, but for now I think we should vote for:

[ ] Research
-[ ] Faster Research 2
-[ ] Improved Research 1

ccstat said:

There are three "better research" skills open to us right now. Faster Research 2 gives us an extra slot (+68 points per day), while Focused Research 2 and Improved Research 1 each give an additional roll (+50 points per day), either to the first slot or spread across all slots. I think we should prioritize completing these so the rest of our tech tree exploration can improve.

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You're not taking the 10,000 Research bonus from getting a human avatar into consideration. Once we have that, we can complete projects the same night we research them until we've used it up so getting it first is the most efficient thing to do. That's why I'm prioritizing Specialty Consumption and Administrative Censorship.

You're right, I'd forgotten about needing to complete research before trying for that quest.
Why is Specialty Consumption a prerequisite for the avatar? I thought it was just censorship we needed for that, plus direct control.

ccstat said:

Why is Specialty Consumption a prerequisite for the avatar? I thought it was just censorship we needed for that, plus direct control.

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Specialty Consumption is if we decide to eat a Shard and Direct Control their host. The thread had been talking about doing that with Twin and Coil. If we're creating a human body to use as an avatar, then we don't need SC right away.

Does anyone else think it's weird how Singular is acting like its host hasn't triggered when the invisitext last time suggested that we contacted it right as Bakuda was triggering?

Anyway, I'm still trying to think about what to vote for. Anything that involves eating another Shard should probably wait for after we get Specialty Consumption. We should also let Negotiator process the situation before doing anything drastic. I'd like to help Amy, Vicky, and Veronica through Incendiary and Lightforge somehow, but I'm not sure how to pull that off.

I'm sure that I had a lot of ideas on what to do before so I'm going to try looking up my previous posts.

Mount. Elements said:

Does anyone else think it's weird how Singular is acting like its host hasn't triggered when the invisitext last time suggested that we contacted it right as Bakuda was triggering?

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It might have been trying to push it's Host to Trigger and we misunderstood it.

No idea the point buy for this, but an idea I had related to the Tattoo idea and the Othala idea:

Tinker / Striker: With a touch apply an image to an object* which imparts an effect related to the image on the touched object. Full effect only lasts a brief time, but the image remains unless removed (like a Henna Tattoo it stains skin and cannot be removed without removing the layer of skin) and can be reinforced. Each repeated use doubles the duration from the previous use (starts low, like minutes long) and power of the effect**. When the duration reaches 24 hours the Tattoo becomes permanent. Effects can be applied as a debuff as well, but can be overcome by destroying the mark or sufficient strength.

*NOT Manton limited, can work through thin gloves.
**Marks can be made more powerful to begin with by using either more surface area (cannot overlap), more detail (and time) or both.

Example: An image of a knight in armor tattoo.
First use gives her a Brute 2 rating in toughness for X amount of time and creates the temporary tattoo. Second use lasts 2X as long and gives a Brute 3 rating, a third use ups it to 4x as long and Brute 4, a fourth use ups it to 8x as long but doesn't quite push it to Brute 5, a fifth use ups it to 16x and Brute 5.

Example: A sword image on a knife.
Knife imparts more force, cuts smoother, and is better balanced than before.

Example: Jail Cell / Hand Cuffs on a mugger's coat
With a touch on the mugger's coat their arms are bound by their coat sleeves as though they're handcuffs made of their jacket material for X amount of time. A second use doubles the duration, reinforces the sleeves of the coat, and increases the binding area from 1/4 inch to 1 inch.

Example: Jail Cell / Hand Cuffs on Hookwolf's coat.
Hookwolf is momentarily inconvenienced by the mark before transforming into a swarm of blades and turning the jacket (and the mark) into shreds.



Research!
[X] Research
-[X] Multi-Host Connection / Direct Control
-[X] Faster Research 2

I've been informed a third option is more likely to slow us down than speed us up, so let's double down on getting that 3rd research slot!
[X] Plan Step 1 for New Wave
-[X] Ask Incendiary and Lightforge for their host data.
-[X] Sort through the data if necessary.
[X] Plan Hero's Shard's Address
-[X] Ask Marker and Destroyer for their Shard addresses lists.
[X] Plan Keep Mouse Protector Alive
-[X] Look at what Mouse Protector is doing.
[X] Plan What's Going On
-[X] Study Variation and Alternate. You noted peculiarities when you contacted them so now is the time to figure out what's going on.
[X] Plan Wait for Negotiator
-[X] Wait for Negotiator to contact you when she's ready.
-[X] Once she contacts you, ask if any Shards have contacted her about us due to old-QA's instructions.

Valdimarian said:

[X] Research
-[X] Multi-Host Connection
With rollover we might as well finish this off. (Does this even need a vote?) -[X] Faster Research 2
More slots means more research, with 3 slots we can keep at least one research on further Research Upgrades (to keep up with the fairly exponential increase in research costs) and still research 2 Utility powers. -[X] [Stabilize Trigger (Human)]
Eventually Taylor is going to Trigger, if I'm reading this right if we predict the trigger correctly this will reinforce our power template for her. (Guess wrong and it'll probably weaken her powers even worse though)

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Researching 3 things at once triggers the research penalty, but the extra points from the completed project give generic Research points to apply to something else. However, I'm pretty sure that the 100-point credit was actually for Assuming Direct Control 1, and it's an error that it was applied to Multi-Host Connection in the threadmark.

Ok, I've been thinking about what to vote for. I'm amending my research plan because we need to finish Assuming Direct Control 1, both to get generic Research Points and to see what's next on the chain. We can start Specialty Consumption next time.

[X] Plan Research Human Avatar
-[X] Assuming Direct Control 1
-[X] Administrative Censorship-Apply any bonuses and generic Research points here.

[X] Plan Step 1 for New Wave
-[X] Ask Incendiary and Lightforge for their host data.
-[X] Sort through the data if necessary.

[X] Plan Hero's Shard's Address
-[X] Ask Marker for its Shard addresses list.

[X] Plan Keep Mouse Protector Alive
-[X] Look at what Mouse Protector is doing.

[X] Plan What's Going On
-[X] Study Variation and Alternate. You noted peculiarities when you contacted them so now is the time to figure out what's going on.

[X] Plan Wait for Negotiator
-[X] Wait for Negotiator to contact you when she's ready.
-[X] Once she contacts you, ask if any Shards have contacted her about us due to old-QA's instructions.

I remember now that there's a lot I want to do AFTER we get the research bonus and complete various research projects. I don't want to do anything drastic right now so these plans are mostly information gathering. Also, the Charge data suggested that the original QA contacted a lot of Shards so we may want to take that into account. It DID say that the Shards were instructed to contact Negotiator though, and that might be why the ROB replaced the original Negotiator.

Whether or not Claire ever decides to go back, improving the Dallon home can only help Vicky and Veronica. I want to know what's going on with the hosts so that we can decide if we should intervene somehow. Of course, it might go off-course like it did with Sophia.

I'm pretty sure that we were trying to contact Marker and Chevalier in order to get Hero's Shard's address and save Mouse Protector from the Slaughterhouse 9. I don't know if we can actually pull it off, but getting more information can't hurt.

Variation seems to be some sort of experiment and collects host data evenly. Alternate has a subtle problem that we'd have to study to figure out. Let's take the time to understand them.

I think this is anywhere from 5 to 11 actions, depending on how actions are counted.

Edit: I removed Chevalier/Destroyer from Plan Hero's Shard's Address since we just ticked off the Shard.

[X] Plan Research Human Avatar
-[X] Assuming Direct Control 1
-[X] Administrative Censorship-Apply any bonuses and generic Research points here.
[X] Plan Step 1 for New Wave
-[X] Ask Incendiary and Lightforge for their host data.
-[X] Sort through the data if necessary.
[X] Plan Hero's Shard's Address
-[X] Ask Marker for its Shard addresses list.
[X] Plan Keep Mouse Protector Alive
-[X] Look at what Mouse Protector is doing.
[X] Plan What's Going On
-[X] Study Variation and Alternate. You noted peculiarities when you contacted them so now is the time to figure out what's going on.

For some reason paste on mobile inserts at the top of the post.

matthew badger said:

I'm assuming the tatoos are like Gaelic/tribal/wizard runes and such, rather than the more modern variety? It'd suck to have detailed images or words be the method of application, seems far too mundane.

Something traditional and magical-looking would be really cool imo, especially if they glow.

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I imagine it would differer depending on Taylor's preferences and those of the client/teammate. I was picturing stuff like a closed third-eye that can open to see outside the visible spectrum, or (for pyrokinesis) a dragon coiled around ones forearm whose flames become real when using the power.

But Avatar-style glowey tattoos could work too.

I'm honestly really confused by the 10k research point reward for becoming human. Like... where is it coming from, in-universe?

Also: I'd really, really like to have Stranger Danger online before we do anything remotely that abberant.

Why are we searching for Hero's shard specifically?

ccstat said:

Why are we searching for Hero's shard specifically?

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Hero's shard is Eden's version of Zion's giant golden fuck-you beams. It was improperly limited so he could make whatever he wanted. It works on pretty much anything with a little tuning, which makes it an excellent offensive or defensive option.

[X] Plan Research Human Avatar
-[X] Assuming Direct Control 1
-[X] Administrative Censorship-Apply any bonuses and generic Research points here.
[X] Plan Step 1 for New Wave
-[X] Ask Incendiary and Lightforge for their host data.
-[X] Sort through the data if necessary.
[X] Plan Hero's Shard's Address
-[X] Ask Marker and Chevalier for their Shard addresses lists.
[X] Plan Keep Mouse Protector Alive
-[X] Look at what Mouse Protector is doing.
[X] Plan What's Going On
-[X] Study Variation and Alternate. You noted peculiarities when you contacted them so now is the time to figure out what's going on.

Redshirt Army said:

I'm honestly really confused by the 10k research point reward for becoming human. Like... where is it coming from, in-universe?

Also: I'd really, really like to have Stranger Danger online before we do anything remotely that abberant.

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If we get Stranger Danger on top of Administrative Censorship, Specialty Consumption, and Assuming Direct Control 1 (possibly 2 or more as well), that adds even more time before we can get a human avatar. On the other hand, we can get a human avatar, keep it away from all other Shards for 1 day, and then research Stranger Danger in 1 night, as opposed to 2-4 nights depending on the rolls if we do it the regular way.

I'm wondering about the research reward as well. Yes, we get a human brain we can run research on, but is it that much more efficient? The research bonus appeared before we found out how efficient Taylor's brain was as well.

I'm more than willing to put up with a four day delay to have Stranger Danger available if/when we go human.

Redshirt Army said:

I'm more than willing to put up with a four day delay to have Stranger Danger available if/when we go human.

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4 days is 8 updates, and it looks like the thread is having trouble thinking of stuff to do right now.

Another issue is that we don't know if Stranger Danger 1 is enough:

• [ ] [Stranger Danger 1]: 250 Stranger Information, 300-100=200 Research. Powers belong to the Shards, not the Parahumans, and furthermore Shards can use all of their abilities at full power. But they never use Stranger-class abilities on each other, even if they have access. There's probably something interesting there.
  This tree also contains the various "hide from Entities" options.

Stranger Danger 1 is just the start of the tree.

Anyway, we can just focus on getting Administrative Censorship and Assuming Direct Control 1 for now. I previously calculated AC taking about 5 days (10 updates), even with all of the bonuses and the Focused Research bonus, though that number might drop depending on the number of omakes. If we get Specialty Consumption, that adds another day (2 updates). We don't have to decide anything about Stranger Danger 1 right now.

WillRobinson said:

Hero's shard is Eden's version of Zion's giant golden fuck-you beams. It was improperly limited so he could make whatever he wanted. It works on pretty much anything with a little tuning, which makes it an excellent offensive or defensive option.

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It also has two decades of data from the number one tinker ever (if you don't count tinker 15 who is currently building up) just lying there ready for the taking. He was also probably one of the most active parahumans to ever step foot on earth maybe even beating Jack (due to downtime between attacks).

I feel a bit bad for Taylor. While showing her the powers dream now helped with the debate on what powers to give her, it also got her hopes up. I'm surprised her Sanity is relatively high at 66. I think that we were waiting to Trigger her until after we got a human avatar, both because we'd have Administrative Censorship and because we could use the research bonus to get Stabilize Trigger and Advanced Host Modification quickly. Does anyone remember if there were other reasons for waiting?

I think the Tattoo-Tinker-Healer (Trump) idea is pretty good IF we modify it so that Taylor only gets information about the parahuman AND so that she's immune to Thinkers. After all, Chevalier, Jack Slash, and Lung all get some sort of feedback from parahumans if I understand their powers correctly.

Maybe the last part could be:

Trump 200, Thinker 200, Parahuman Administration. On-off at-will. Targeted or area-of-effect. 500 meter range. Allows detection of any parahuman or potential. Powers can be temporarily turned on or off, copied, or (with permission) moved. Powers do not work on Taylor without her permission. Multi-tasking is enabled.

Even if Taylor is on the same team as Claire, the healing aura should make her extremely valuable, considering that Panacea is still missing. Claire might not want to advertise her healing abilities anyway.

Mount. Elements said:

4 days is 8 updates, and it looks like the thread is having trouble thinking of stuff to do right now.

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We're being limited to 12 actions per update - and we certainly haven't had issues coming up with 12 actions up till now.

Alas, my perspective might be a bit warped due to PMAS, where I've waited 2+ IRL years and hundreds of updates to finally implement some of my plans - waiting 8 updates seems kinda like... not a big deal?

Mount. Elements said:

I'm wondering about the research reward as well. Yes, we get a human brain we can run research on, but is it that much more efficient? The research bonus appeared before we found out how efficient Taylor's brain was as well.

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The 10K point research reward is a quest-completion award. It's entirely OOC and QM-enticement, pure and simple.

It's almost as if certain plot points are on-hold until you have an Avatar. Or something...

Mount. Elements said:

Even if Taylor is on the same team as Claire, the healing aura should make her extremely valuable, considering that Panacea is still missing. Claire might not want to advertise her healing abilities anyway.

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Keep in mind that an actual healing power (compared to something they can be used as healing) is by itself aberrant since it lacks conflict potential.
It is even more aberrant for Administrator of all shards to have such a power.

Just because Taylor designed a certain power doesn't mean we have to comply with her wish.

Mount. Elements said:

-[X] Ask Marker and Chevalier for their Shard addresses lists.

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After we lied and told him that we have three S-class hosts, I think Chevalier's shard needs some time to cool down, lest it forms a coalition against us.

Nachtigall said:

After we lied and told him that we have three S-class hosts, I think Chevalier's shard needs some time to cool down, lest it forms a coalition against us.

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The good news here is that Chevalier has no idea (yet). He won't know anything is wrong until he meets one of your Hosts in-person - at which point he'd see the "powers image" thing and crap himself.

But not before.

EDIT: One strategy for nullifying any of the consequences of scaring the Destroyer Shard is to make sure that Taylor actually is S-class...

Oh wait, I remember! Certain unknown plot points are on hold until Taylor triggers! That's another reason why we were waiting to get a human avatar first.

Redshirt Army said:

We're being limited to 12 actions per update - and we certainly haven't had issues coming up with 12 actions up till now.

Alas, my perspective might be a bit warped due to PMAS, where I've waited 2+ IRL years and hundreds of updates to finally implement some of my plans - waiting 8 updates seems kinda like... not a big deal?

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Yeah, it's ironic that once we finally got the actions limit I had been hoping for, we ran out of ideas on what to do.

Part of the issue is that we need various research projects in order to safely do stuff. For example, if we want to fix the Cauldron Shards and their hosts, we should get Specialty Consumption and Advanced Host Modification (Human).

We also have to avoid sense-sharing with any additional sapient Shards if we give Taylor a weird power and getting Administrative Censorship would be a good idea anyway. While we can keep contacting Shards, the original QA has already warned a lot of Shards about us, based off the Charge data. We should probably evaluate the situation and decide whether we want to add any more precautions before continuing on.

Nachtigall said:

Keep in mind that an actual healing power (compared to something they can be used as healing) is by itself aberrant since it lacks conflict potential.
It is even more aberrant for Administrator of all shards to have such a power.

Just because Taylor designed a certain power doesn't mean we have to comply with her wish.


After we lied and told him that we have three S-class hosts, I think Chevalier's shard needs some time to cool down, lest it forms a coalition against us.

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Good point about Destroyer. I'll remove it from my plan.

Maybe we can modify the healing power to be linked to administration? For example, she can only heal parahumans or potentials that she sees as allies? I don't know how useful that would be, but I'd like to take Taylor's ideas into consideration as much as possible considering that it's her power.

Nachtigall said:

Keep in mind that an actual healing power (compared to something they can be used as healing) is by itself aberrant since it lacks conflict potential.
It is even more aberrant for Administrator of all shards to have such a power.

Just because Taylor designed a certain power doesn't mean we have to comply with her wish.


After we lied and told him that we have three S-class hosts, I think Chevalier's shard needs some time to cool down, lest it forms a coalition against us.

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Well instead of just healing we could have it buff allies and debuff enemies.

As for actions, I really just want to start talking to Taylor already. Maybe we should get the three of them together as friends and then do a week long time skip.

Gino said:

As for actions, I really just want to start talking to Taylor already. Maybe we should get the three of them together as friends and then do a week long time skip.

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One thing that's important to keep in mind (and it's possible I haven't been explicit enough about this) is that for all the insane amount of Host-data you're getting from Taylor, you can't read her thoughts.

You can tell roughly her emotional state, and you can make educated guesses, but you can't know.

I've tried to show that in the story posts so-far. (My apologies if it wasn't obvious)

Even the Simurgh uses Postcognition and Precognition to see into people's heads (based on their actions). She doesn't have direct access either. (The Entities themselves might have a way, but they wouldn't bother)

Ah, well in that case maybe more psionics telepathy research would help. After we finally get stabilize trigger and censorship.

I know we really need more research upgrades, but the plot literally is stalling until we trigger her and get an avatar(Penny/Perry!) guys. Unless people want to start cranking out omakes again, and I've got no ideas right now.