[HALP] me! (WORM quest)

So the Triumvirate, Doormaker and Clairvoyant probably have core shards, and though they are damaged as Eden shards I imagine their authority trumps ours. Additionally, a few of the Cauldron shards were functional enough even without our help, do we really want to risk gaining the ire of High Priest and the rest?

Gino said:

So the Triumvirate, Doormaker and Clairvoyant probably have core shards, and though they are damaged as Eden shards I imagine their authority trumps ours. Additionally, a few of the Cauldron shards were functional enough even without our help, do we really want to risk gaining the ire of High Priest and the rest?

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While I think that you are correct with Doormaker, Clairvoiant and Eidolon having core shards I do think that the others are just not properly restricted, remember even the weakest shard could produce the strongest power if they are not restricted.

Also what do people think about my plan to contact Equilibrium and Hypersparkle so we can get Hero' shard?

I'm okay with contacting Hypersparkle Princess.

I think maybe we should space them out so we don't do more than one per update, so we have a chance to reflect on what happened between them and don't end up accidentally setting off like, five different plots at once.
Especially when we have, five going on right now no one is addressing.
I mean, we just found out that QA is still around, Negotiator has Future Lisa's memories, and that QA dumped information on what was happening to her around in random places. In one post. Quite the info-dump.

Maybe we should actually finish up a few things before putting more on our plate?

Gino said:

And this isn't Marvel or ADC, it's still Worm. Taylor isn't inventing an arc reactor unless we tell her how. She's not a billionaire genius inventor with a weapons company, she's not Bruce Wayne, she's not even Peter Parker. She has neither the resources nor the education. And what does that have anything to with symbolism?

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I guess I phrased it poorly. Tony Stark was bad example as I agree that people like Tony Stark are extreme intelligent outliers which may be pretty much impossible to copy. And she may always learn if she is supposed to be so extremely smart right now.

In overall what I mean is that once we pick up stable contact with Taylor suggesting for example that she goes for engineering/mechanics and fields like surgery for example with this massive intelligence may be worth it anyway no matter what kind of power she has. It simply would be a waste to not take true advantage of it as good old fashioned mundane science can still provide some very interesting things to analyze and possibly create. And I suspect she can learn things really quickly with what happens to her body.

Gino said:

If we maker her a tinker I say screw it. No restrictions, build anything, mass producible. Real tech. She can blackbox it on her own to make it look like tinkertech to the PRT and gangs and save the high quality stuff for her crew.

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Again, I'm not a fan of tinker, because unless you go with extreme power scaling it will always be limited in some ways. This is how tinkertech works and unless you are Masamune, it's impossible to for example mass produce, which is extremely limiting. Although I guess that we could drop massive amount of tinker points here, restrictions would be removed.

As I said before - I would suggest pure Trump or go with Magic/Psionics builds.

Ducats said:

While I think that you are correct with Doormaker, Clairvoiant and Eidolon having core shards I do think that the others are just not properly restricted, remember even the weakest shard could produce the strongest power if they are not restricted.

Also what do people think about my plan to contact Equilibrium and Hypersparkle so we can get Hero' shard?

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I think Eidolon is both a core shard user AND he isn't properly restricted at all. But yes, pretty much what you said.

We need to decide how we want to alter the sense-sharing votes. Do we want to set them one-way, or do we want to try creating a new protocol so that they report only to Administrator?

Why not have those be conflicting options and we vote individually and see which way people go for each?

Since I don't want to alter each and every plan, I've come up with 2 plan add-ons:

[ ] Plan One-Way Sense-Sharing
-[ ] Set up the new sense-sharing connections so that only you receive additional info.

[ ] Plan New Protocol
- [ ] When setting up the new sense-sharing connections, make them two-way, but create a new protocol that if the Shard senses aberrance in Administrator, it is to report this to Administrator and only Administrator.

Edit: I figured out an option that hopefully compromises between the two.

[ ] Plan New Protocol with One-Way Option
- [ ] When setting up the new sense-sharing connections, make them two-way, but create a new protocol that if the Shard senses aberrance in Administrator, it is to report this to Administrator and only Administrator.
--[ ] If the Shard does not accept the new protocol, change the sense-sharing connection so that only Administrator gets the additional info.

The_GrandMage said:

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That was incredible! One major bonus of your choice, The_GrandMage!

Truly, Catgirl Rune-Chan is canon after all. We should split the Empire. Reveal Kaisers identity, give Purity a different power, heal Night and Fogs sociopathy. Just cause them a lot of trouble.

Okay guys, I have a plan. Gonna need ya'll to vote to implement it because it takes some actions to do I can't just force through.
So my idea is, instead of using Rune-Chan and PHO 2: Post Harder to improve Research, we do this instead:

[]Plan "Red Flags Over Brainmeats"
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind to us in her sleep.
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 1 to autocrit on the attempt to not fuck this up.
-[] Purge her Brainmeats of encrypted data everything else, just reformat it to empty.
--[] Use PHO 2: Post Harder bonus to autocrit at this, getting rid of this probably dangerous chunk.
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind back into her new, enlarged Brainmeats she has more use of (Maybe with a slight program to make sure she feels proper levels of hunger to maintain it?)
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 2 to autocrit at this, making sure we do it right.

Heck, if someone wants to research some calming techniques and right up something for it, we could dump that in her brain with her and the hunger mod and maybe even improve her SAN over time by having her constantly running her own calming techniques to try and stop the stress from getting too bad.

I don't think it's a good idea to suddenly make Taylor that smart without studying the neural infrastructure in detail. Having a host smarter than us could end pretty badly...

Redshirt Army said:

Having a host smarter than us could end pretty badly...

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Would she be smarter just having the real estate? It mostly seems to be storage. She might have enough free space to suddenly have a photographic memory with bizarrely fast recall, but without either more general knowledge or specifically process power, I doubt her intelligence would go up that much.

Also, would that be too much of an issue for the Host to be smarter than us? After all, most Shards work under that restriction, and have for numerous Cycles, and it hasn't stopped them yet.

The_GrandMage said:

Okay guys, I have a plan. Gonna need ya'll to vote to implement it because it takes some actions to do I can't just force through.
So my idea is, instead of using Rune-Chan and PHO 2: Post Harder to improve Research, we do this instead:

[]Plan "Red Flags Over Brainmeats"
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind to us in her sleep.
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 1 to autocrit on the attempt to not fuck this up.
-[] Purge her Brainmeats of encrypted data everything else, just reformat it to empty.
--[] Use PHO 2: Post Harder bonus to autocrit at this, getting rid of this probably dangerous chunk.
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind back into her new, enlarged Brainmeats she has more use of (Maybe with a slight program to make sure she feels proper levels of hunger to maintain it?)
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 2 to autocrit at this, making sure we do it right.

Heck, if someone wants to research some calming techniques and right up something for it, we could dump that in her brain with her and the hunger mod and maybe even improve her SAN over time by having her constantly running her own calming techniques to try and stop the stress from getting too bad.

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If we're transfering her mind, are we also copying the encrypted data? I don't think it's a good idea to purge it without investigating it first.

Are sure you have autocrits? This seems incredibly risky. Maybe we should tell Gaea and Negotiator before we attempt in case something goes wrong. They couldn't anything about about it least they would why we suddenly spazzed out. i don't really care if Taylor is smarter than us, we can bounce more ideas of her that way.

Also, personal ancedote. My uncle is a small business owner, but he's relatively uneducated and never hires anyone smarter than him. He's of the opinion that because he can't tell if their pulling one over on him, they automatically can't be trusted and must be avoided. And the family business is staffed by employees that leave whenever they like for breaks, reschedule themselves without asking, and generally don't communicate and half-ass every job. But that's fine, because my uncle is smarter than them and can do everything that needs to be done anyone, so who cares if we have horrible customer service? Afterall, he has control.

I'm losing the metaphor sorry. The point is, if you only surround yourself with allies you know can't trick you, than they aren't very useful are they?

If Taylor is smarter than us, fine. It discourages us from trying to betray her and encourages us to bring her in on the planning. The same thing goes for Negotiator. If you don't take risks you'll never achieve anything hiding in a cave.

Another thing to consider is the fact that even if we turn her into a genius, that still does not mean that she will outsmart us in the short term. Since being a genius has more to do with how fast you can learn and understand, plus how to reorient a problem until you have a solution. And I don't think head strong Taylor will outsmart us socially for a long time.

Also, I will just throw this out there, but real life geniuses are more the natural consequence of dedication instead of any inherent superiority they have. It is just a way for people to not feel bad about not being as dedicated as them. Though a lot of geniuses do dedicate themselves to an insane degree, just look up how much time Mozart spent practicing. You will notice that it is not so weird that he began composing so young.

Mount. Elements said:

If we're transfering her mind, are we also copying the encrypted data? I don't think it's a good idea to purge it without investigating it first.

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I'm running on the idea it's a QA trap and thus should be avoided.
The plan is to purge it, yes. I mean, if people vote against it happening, I'll use it elsewhere and never suggest this plan again.
I will say I told you so when the world catches on fire.

Gino said:

Are sure you have autocrits?

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I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Yes. Absolutely. Check the quote below. Bolded for emphasis. As I already used the first PHO to get a unique skill, I trust the QM.
Much more than I trust a bundle of encrypted data in a Human QA had access to before we got here.

Vhalidictes said:

PHO Omakes (reactions of BB residents to story chapter events) can be used for a free-form bonus of some other type. This could include a unique skill, guaranteed chapter voting option, or automatic critical.

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EDIT: And yes, I know it says PHO Omakes, but the QM has confirmed that the Rune-Chan bonuses are free-form bonuses.

The_GrandMage said:

I'm running on the idea it's a QA trap and thus should be avoided.
The plan is to purge it, yes. I mean, if people vote against it happening, I'll use it elsewhere and never suggest this plan again.
I will say I told you so when the world catches on fire.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Yes. Absolutely. Check the quote below. Bolded for emphasis. As I already used the first PHO to get a unique skill, I trust the QM.
Much more than I trust a bundle of encrypted data in a Human QA had access to before we got here.


EDIT: And yes, I know it says PHO Omakes, but the QM has confirmed that the Rune-Chan bonuses are free-form bonuses.

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Is there a way that we can store the copy of the data somewhere? Maybe bud the mass that used to be Emote into another dimension and put it there? I'm willing to get it out of Taylor's head, but I don't like the idea of just deleting the data.

So is Lilac a merchant? Or has been a merchant?

No, Trainwreck only joined the Merchants because Coil had him infiltrate them. Lilac's never met them before.

Kejmur said:

[] Symbol(ism) Tinker.

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The power is cool. Thought do you think it'd be possible/a good idea to add a thiker capacity so Taylor kind of understand parahuman's powers and how to adapt them to seals. Basically the same as Dragon but instead of tinkertech with powers.

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About Twin I don't think is a good idea to restrict it right now. We don't gain anything from it except alerting Cauldron (If my memory serves me right they don't know that Cauldron Capes will run out of power eventually). Moreover it's not like Twin's energy reserve will run out in one week or two it'll run out in 20 years so we have time.

[ ] Don't restrict Twin at the moment.

Ducats said:

Also what do people think about my plan to contact Equilibrium and Hypersparkle so we can get Hero' shard?

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Wouldn't it be better to contact the Siberian's Shard (Realm -> Burnscar's Shard -> The Siberian's Shard)? Manton drank the same vial as Genesis so it shouldn't have a lot of authority unlike Equilibrium and Hypersparkle.

Moreover if we contact the Siberian succesfully we could get the Number Man's Shard (it's a lesser Shard according to Zion so it shouldn't have almost any authority, in fact it probably isn't even sapient) get the adresses of all of Cauldron (and insider information in their activities).

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I don't feel comfortable Triggering Taylor without Stabilize Trigger so:

[ ] Research Stabilize Trigger Event.
[ ] Not trigger Taylor.

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To see if the idea to burn Winsllow for Taylor SAN would be possible:

[ ] Contact Escalation to see if it's friendly and/or sapient.

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Vhalidictes said:

[Gaea] "You're very old, right?" Without waiting for a response, she keeps going. "I was hoping that you could tell me about the end of a Cycle. I need to find out what the criteria are for being integrated, but no one wants to talk about it. The Package doesn't indicate that this is any kind of… taboo? Or anything. Shards just...don't. And there aren't many older ones that are sapient. Is there something I'm missing?"

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We can ask Charge about this. It'd reasure Gaea and it's not a bad info for us to have, thought I think researching Memetic Proxy Filtering would be a good idea before asking anything to Charge, just in case Queenie left something nasty in that data.

[ ] Research Memetic Proxy Filtering before asking anything to Charge.
[ ] Ask Charge about the criteria for being integrated at the end of the Cycle.

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The_GrandMage said:

[]Plan "Red Flags Over Brainmeats"
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind to us in her sleep.
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 1 to autocrit on the attempt to not fuck this up.
-[] Purge her Brainmeats of encrypted data everything else, just reformat it to empty.
--[] Use PHO 2: Post Harder bonus to autocrit at this, getting rid of this probably dangerous chunk.
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind back into her new, enlarged Brainmeats she has more use of (Maybe with a slight program to make sure she feels proper levels of hunger to maintain it?)
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 2 to autocrit at this, making sure we do it right.

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Mount. Elements said:

If we're transfering her mind, are we also copying the encrypted data? I don't think it's a good idea to purge it without investigating it first.

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This. Thought we could transfer the not encrypted part of Taylor's mind so as to have a backup in case something bad happens to her. Also we coul use it so simulate what Taylor would do to some of our plans (although I don't know how that would be implemented in Quest).

I think this would make more sense in the next chapter, I mean we've basically arranged a meeting beetwen Taylor and Panacea (althought it might not happen) so we should wait to see how well it goes and then discuss this in the next update.

I mean, if we've gotten rid of the clog, Gaea could literally heal her mind when we got in range.

If Panacea gets in range and her brainmeats are full of encrypted data, she can't really make that go away without probably breaking everything. Whereas is the brainmeats are mostly empty because her mind hasn't gone out into the empty territory, we could lower it (and Taylor's issues with nutrition) as soon as they get in range.

We could probably pull this off in the time between her last dream and waking up. I could maybe stand to push it off a round if people vote to implement it then and it's locked in. If they don't, I'm not willing to have three bonuses I worked hard for be under debate indefinitely. I do have plenty of spending options that don't involve calling for a vote, be they Research or just dedicating them to autocriting rolls voted for or expected to come up.

The_GrandMage said:

I thought we wanted Stabilize Trigger so we're not rolling for deviation from the powers we give her?
Since, you know, that could end up mutating a power set we agree on to something we all don't like with a bad roll.
We've been lucky for far with minimal deviation, but we shouldn't bank on that luck staying around.

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People keep saying this but they also want to get meme tech and host mod right away so it's going to be a long time coming. We haven't even started stabilize trigger.

The_GrandMage said:

► Neko-Sukeban (Unverified Cape) (Unverified Catgirl)
Replied on November 8, 2010:

Empire sucks, nya~.
Hope this mew Tinker ain't wit' them.
Looks pretty sturdy, but not sturdy enough to face Lung-sama, nya~.

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Good girl. You get head pats.

The_GrandMage said:

[]Plan "Red Flags Over Brainmeats"
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind to us in her sleep.
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 1 to autocrit on the attempt to not fuck this up.
-[] Purge her Brainmeats of encrypted data everything else, just reformat it to empty.
--[] Use PHO 2: Post Harder bonus to autocrit at this, getting rid of this probably dangerous chunk.
-[] Transfer Taylor's Mind back into her new, enlarged Brainmeats she has more use of (Maybe with a slight program to make sure she feels proper levels of hunger to maintain it?)
--[] Use Rune-Chan bonus 2 to autocrit at this, making sure we do it right.

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I can most definitely get behind this plan.

The_GrandMage said:

Also, would that be too much of an issue for the Host to be smarter than us? After all, most Shards work under that restriction, and have for numerous Cycles, and it hasn't stopped them yet.

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Let's be honest here, we're kinda dumb too.

The_GrandMage said:

Would she be smarter just having the real estate? It mostly seems to be storage. She might have enough free space to suddenly have a photographic memory with bizarrely fast recall, but without either more general knowledge or specifically process power, I doubt her intelligence would go up that much.

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Agreed. Most of that meat is being used as data storage.

Gino said:

If Taylor is smarter than us, fine. It discourages us from trying to betray her and encourages us to bring her in on the planning. The same thing goes for Negotiator. If you don't take risks you'll never achieve anything hiding in a cave.

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Exactly. Who dares, wins.

The_GrandMage said:

► Neko-Sukeban (Unverified Cape) (Unverified Catgirl)
Replied on November 8, 2010:

Empire sucks, nya~.
Hope this mew Tinker ain't wit' them.
Looks pretty sturdy, but not sturdy enough to face Lung-sama, nya~.

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The best part, right here. Magical Catgirl Rune-chan shall live on in our hearts forever.

But seriously, nice work!

The_GrandMage said:

I mean, if we've gotten rid of the clog, Gaea could literally heal her mind when we got in range.

If Panacea gets in range and her brainmeats are full of encrypted data, she can't really make that go away without probably breaking everything. Whereas is the brainmeats are mostly empty because her mind hasn't gone out into the empty territory, we could lower it (and Taylor's issues with nutrition) as soon as they get in range.

We could probably pull this off in the time between her last dream and waking up. I could maybe stand to push it off a round if people vote to implement it then and it's locked in. If they don't, I'm not willing to have three bonuses I worked hard for be under debate indefinitely. I do have plenty of spending options that don't involve calling for a vote, be they Research or just dedicating them to autocriting rolls voted for or expected to come up.

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Maybe we could do set-up this round and then implement your plan next round? It would still mean that Gaea can't do anything to Taylor's brain, but she could optimize the rest of Taylor's body to work better with it.

Here are my suggested set-up vote:

[ ] Plan Set-up for Clearing Taylor's Mind
-[ ] Inspect the dimensions that Emote and Prosthetic used to inhabit.
-[ ] Attempt to bud the mass that used to be Emote into whichever dimension has the least amount of inhabitable space.
--[ ] Make sure the bud has no personality or way of developing one. The bud's only instructions should be to hold any data that Administrator gives it and to not let anyone but Administrator access the data.
---[ ] Set unique command codes for the bud that the original Administrator would have no way of knowing.

If people are willing to vote for this, I'll add the X's in. I'm going to go ahead and post the rest of my votes now.

[X] Plan Data
-[X] What are the updated command codes that the original Administrator sent Charge?
-[X] Under what circumstances can aberrance be detected?
-[X] Are there any drawbacks or unexpected side-effects to sense-sharing?
-[X] Does Charge know the addresses for any other Shards that were contacted by the original Administrator when Eden died?
-[X] Ask whether Charge is sense-sharing, friends, or allies with any other Shards?

[X] Plan Researching the Essentials
-[X] Continue Research Focused Research 1
-[X] Assign 186 free research to Focused Research 1
-[X] Start Research Memetic Proxy Filtering 1 125/125, 275 Tinker Information
-[X] Start Research Stabilize Trigger (Human) 250/850

[X] Plan Restrict Frictionless
-[X] Send Frictionless the Standard Information Packet and the command codes so that it must listen to us.
-[X] Tell Frictionless to cap the size of objects that Ballistic can accelerate to only 5% bigger than the objects Ballistics currently uses.
-[X] Set up sense-sharing with Frictionless.

[X] Plan Restrict Fusion
-[X] Send Fusion the Standard Information Packet and the command codes so that it must listen to us.
-[X] Tell Fusion to cap the power output of suns such that it extends that maximum shard lifespan to normal parameters.
-[X] Set up sense-sharing with Fusion.

[X] Inform Negotiator of the new restrictions. Ask her if she wants Dream Master, she seems like she already has human bio and modification.

[X] Give Twin the standard data packet with updates if we didn't do that already.

[X] Plan Senses 2
- [X] Set up sense-sharing with Audible, Swap, and Twin.
- [X] Take half of their data.

[X] Plan New Protocol with One-Way Option
- [X] When setting up the new sense-sharing connections, make them two-way, but create a new protocol that if the Shard senses aberrance in Administrator, it is to report this to Administrator and only Administrator.
--[X] If the Shard does not accept the new protocol, change the sense-sharing connection so that only Administrator gets the additional info.

[X] Restrict Twin
-[X] Twin's Host must spend a period of time between simulations equal to the length of the last simulation before he can start up a new simulation. If the Host attempts to simulate regardless during a cooldown, it is allowed, but a Thinker headache is imposed for the entire cooldown duration and the severity of the headache and duration of the next cooldown is doubled each time this occurs. The headache should be annoying on the first, impairing on the second and incapacitating on the third. Drugs should help with the first and second headaches, but not the third headache.

I came up with a plan about the sense-sharing that has us change the connection to one-way if the Shard doesn't accept the new protocol. That should make things a little safer.

I also limited the Negotiator vote to not include offering The Dream Master, Human Biology, and Basic Host Modification (Human) because it feels condenscending(?). Negotiator has been around for a lot longer than us, talks to her host directly, and was thinking about changing her host's brain to match Taylor's. She's not Gaea.

[X]Plan "Red Flags Over Brainmeats"
-[X] Transfer Taylor's Mind to us in her sleep.
--[X] Use Rune-Chan bonus 1 to autocrit on the attempt to not fuck this up.
-[X] Purge her Brainmeats of encrypted data everything else, just reformat it to empty.
--[X] Use PHO 2: Post Harder bonus to autocrit at this, getting rid of this probably dangerous chunk.
-[X] Transfer Taylor's Mind back into her new, enlarged Brainmeats she has more use of (Maybe with a slight program to make sure she feels proper levels of hunger to maintain it?)
--[X] Use Rune-Chan bonus 2 to autocrit at this, making sure we do it right.

[X] If Red Flags works, tell Gaea what we tried and ask her to give it look over just n case anyway. She's the bio expert.
-[X] If we contact Gaea, advise her toward subtlety with Dream Master. Her host appears to be mentally unstable, which while useful in moderation, can result in death or imprisonment if pushed too far.

[X] Do not trigger Taylor.

[X] Pay attention to Amy, let's see what unholy abomination she's come up with.

[X] What's Tattletale up to

[X] Don't contact any new Shards.

Edit: I've made a lot of changes and don't feel like continuing to list them all.