[HALP] me! (WORM quest)

I'm not sure, because you can't squish multiple projects into one slot. Even if they're almost done. (It's a game-mechanics thing)

And I just re-read the last few pages - I'm embarrassed to admit that I can't find your Omake?
Oh, ok. So Plan Researching the Essentials also penalizes all 3 projects and not just the last 2?

I linked it in my post, and it's also in Ducat's omake index.

Also I think that you are underestimating data gathering severely, the reason that we get so little is because we have not contacted too many shards. This problem will become really small over time, and we will experience a sharp increase in data since we now have an in with the Undersiders, we can get share senses with everyone of them and since they always do things together they will always generate data*4, so if we share senses with Optimize, Dragon's shard and some ToyBox shards we will get a bunch of people who cooperate with other tinkers a lot and each of them giving us tinker data. Another thing to consider is that we got a pretty decent haul of tinker data from Lilac alone, so unless we turtle up completely our economy will explode in a few turns depending on how willing people are to contact other shards.
I still think your number is too high.

Also, there seems to be some hidden downside to sense-sharing based on Vhalidictes putting Insightful in some posts. That's why we're asking Charge's data about it and only trying to set up new sense-sharing arrangements with non-sapient Shards.

Finally, Tattletale seems to be in the process of recruiting the Undersiders so they're not a team yet.
 
[X] Plan Data
-[X] What are the updated command codes that the original Administrator sent Charge?
-[X] Under what circumstances can aberrance be detected?
-[X] Are there any drawbacks or unexpected side-effects to sense-sharing?
-[X] Does Charge know the addresses for any other Shards that were contacted by the original Administrator when Eden died?

[X] Plan Charge
-[X] Don't mess with Charge.

[X] Plan Researching the Essentials
-[X] Continue Research Focused Research 1
-[X] Assign 186 free research to Focused Research 1
-[X] Start Research Memetic Proxy Filtering 1 125/125, 275 Tinker Information
-[X] Start Research Stabilize Trigger (Human) 250/850

[X] Plan Restrict Frictionless
-[X] Send Frictionless the Standard Information Packet and the command codes so that it must listen to us.
-[X] Tell Frictionless to cap the size of objects that Ballistic can accelerate to only 5% bigger than the objects Ballistics currently uses.
-[X] Set up sense-sharing with Frictionless.

[X] Plan Restrict Fusion
-[X] Send Fusion the Standard Information Packet and the command codes so that it must listen to us.
-[X] Tell Fusion to cap the power output of suns such that it extends that maximum shard lifespan to normal parameters.
-[X] Set up sense-sharing with Fusion.

[X] Plan Senses
- [X] Set up sense-sharing with Audible, Swap, and Twin.

[X] Restrict Twin
-[X] Twin's Host must spend a period of time between simulations equal to the length of the last simulation before he can start up a new simulation. If the Host attempts to simulate regardless during a cooldown, it is allowed, but a Thinker headache is imposed for the entire cooldown duration and the severity of the headache and duration of the next cooldown is doubled each time this occurs. The headache should be annoying on the first, impairing on the second and incapacitating on the third. Drugs should help with the first and second headaches, but not the third headache.

[X] Plan Thinker-Tinker Taylor
-[X] Trigger Taylor


Well, if we let this chance go, odds are no Thinker/Tinker trigger, once she recovers from her crash, especially when it requires a protracted period of agonizing over events and players have demonstrated a desire to minimize that, despite repeated assertions of desiring Thinker-Tinker triggers for Taylor.
At this rate she's going to get a square peg jammed in a round hole when we get around to it, so heading that off.
 
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Oh, ok. So Plan Researching the Essentials also penalizes all 3 projects and not just the last 2?
Yes, any penalties accrued (well, not the ones from critical failures) apply to everything done in a turn.

Also, there seems to be some hidden downside to sense-sharing based on Vhalidictes putting Insightful in some posts. That's why we're asking Charge's data about it and only trying to set up new sense-sharing arrangements with non-sapient Shards.
The downside to sense-sharing isn't hidden - Shards can see, in a general sense, what you're doing from the Host data you provide.

Sapient Shards can discover things, and non-sapient Shards may (or may not) choose to alert Scion (and/or Core Shards) based on existing programming.

EDIT: To elaborate here, you're not just sending combat data, by-default you're sending all data.

Which would include, say, any conversations that Taylor and Veronica had (outside mindscapes / dreams).

Now, most Shards aren't going to randomly trawl all that data (they aren't you), but there's always the potential for them to pay attention at the wrong time, or to the wrong thing...

EDIT 2: This also means that if you want me to ever elaborate (include in a Chapter) what, say, Sophia, Lisa, Amy, or Victoria are doing that day... just ask (vote on this). Right now, you have access to everything they do.
 
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The downside to sense-sharing isn't hidden - Shards can see, in a general sense, what you're doing from the Host data you provide.

Sapient Shards can discover things, and non-sapient Shards may (or may not) choose to alert Scion (and/or Core Shards) based on existing programming.
So sending the command codes to any non-sapient Shards we sense-share with is a good idea. Does anyone have any other ideas on what steps to take to keep non-sapient Shards from reporting us? We haven't accrued any aberrance at the moment, but Gaea was confused about how we seemed to have multiple hosts. That can be explained away if we're contacted since it's not actually aberrant, but ADCing Coil and fixing Taylor ourselves does accrue aberrance.
 
Something to consider is that Coil has decent odds of going straight to Cauldron if his power suddenly changes expression. A sudden, sharp change is likely to be kind of jarring - we might want to consider a slower approach, where Coils power slowly weakens over the course of a month or so.

[ ] Plan Tightening The Coils
-[ ] Place a one week limit on Coil's simulations, with Thinker headaches beginning at an accumulated three days.
-[ ] Every day, for the next month, slowly decrease these limits, bottoming out at a 8 hour hard limit, with Thinker headaches beginning at an accumulated 6 hours.
 
Something to consider is that Coil has decent odds of going straight to Cauldron if his power suddenly changes expression. A sudden, sharp change is likely to be kind of jarring - we might want to consider a slower approach, where Coils power slowly weakens over the course of a month or so.

[ ] Plan Tightening The Coils
-[ ] Place a one week limit on Coil's simulations, with Thinker headaches beginning at an accumulated three days.
-[ ] Every day, for the next month, slowly decrease these limits, bottoming out at a 8 hour hard limit, with Thinker headaches beginning at an accumulated 6 hours.
This is interesting, but does anyone know how Coil uses his simulations in canon? Does he even run them for a week at a time? Fanfiction has given me the impression that he'll run them for a day at a time with one instance having him go to work and the other having him be at home or in his base and then pick whichever day went better.

I've been thinking more about the sense-sharing thing. Do you all think we can set up a protocol somehow so that any non-sapient Shards that think Administrator is being aberrant will report to us first for an explanation? If we're continuing to set up sense-sharing with the Cauldron Shards this round, we might want to also include something in the plans to the effect of:

-[ ] Inform (Shard Name) that you are currently running the powers for multiple hosts because you are in the process of fixing damaged Shards, and some of the Shards were unrepairable.

I just want to make sure that they don't mistake the additional hosts as evidence for Administrator being aberrant.
 
Ok here is what I am voting for.

[X] Research Plan Research 2.0
-[X] Continue Research on Focused Research 1
--[X] Spend all the extra research points here
---[X] Any overflow from other research will be used here
-[X] Memetic Proxy Filtering
-[X] Basic Psionic Theory 1

I hope that people will vote for this, but even you don't can all of you update your plans so that you use all of the research points we have, because if we use them we should be able to finish Focused research with one Omake more. Then we can get to stabilize trigger next turn when we have better research capabilities. Finally Memetic and Psionics are there because they are already researched, so it would be nice to get them to a usable state, instead of waiting around.

[X] Plan Senses
- [X] Set up sense-sharing with Audible, Swap, and Twin.

[X] Contact Equilibrium: Hunt for Hero
-[X] Check up on the state of Equilibrium
-[X] Ask for shard addresses, Hero's shard is the most important
-[X] Give out the new protocols if needed

[X] Contact Hypersparkle: Hunt for Hero 2
-[X] Check up on the state of Hypersparkle
-[X] Ask for shard addresses, Hero's shard is the most important
-[X] Give out the new protocols if needed

Since there are some worries that we will run out of tinker data, I suggest that we find Hero's shard since it should have almost two decades of tinker data from the #1 tinker. So if it is fucked as it most likely is we can just eat it.

[X] Plan Restrict Frictionless
-[X] Send Frictionless the Standard Information Packet and the command codes so that it must listen to us.
-[X] Tell Frictionless to cap the size of objects that Ballistic can accelerate to only 5% bigger than the objects Ballistics currently uses.
-[X] Set up sense-sharing with Frictionless.

[X] Plan Restrict Fusion
-[X] Send Fusion the Standard Information Packet and the command codes so that it must listen to us.
-[X] Tell Fusion to cap the power output of suns such that it extends that maximum shard lifespan to normal parameters.
-[X] Set up sense-sharing with Fusion.

These two get my support since we will get more data from them.

[X] Contact Vehicle
-[X] Check up on Vehicle
-[X] Ask for shard addresses

[X] Contact Module
-[X] Check up on Module
-[X] Ask for shard addresses

These two are for the potential tinker data, though I do think Vehicle will give us more bang for our buck because of her hosts poor impulse control.

This is interesting, but does anyone know how Coil uses his simulations in canon? Does he even run them for a week at a time? Fanfiction has given me the impression that he'll run them for a day at a time with one instance having him go to work and the other having him be at home or in his base and then pick whichever day went better.
I don't remember, but I do remember that canon Coil was a lot more daring and smarter than fanfics like to portray him, so he likely doesn't make splits that are too long, but he probably has a lot of contingencies.

I still think your number is too high.
I actually messed up my mental math, the gain is way higher. One, every turn each category has been giving us around 10 data per person (sometimes it is higher or lower depends on what they are doing) so the gain is pretty good any way considering how few shards we get data from. Two, when I said my mental math was wrong I meant really wrong, for each time a parahuman generates data said data is multiplied by how many shards saw said data.

Lets make an example: The Undersiders (They should exist as of now since they had already existed for a year when Taylor joins in canon, Tattletale was likely scouting new members, she is likely to stumble across Spitfire soon, then botch the recruitment) go on a job or something, they all use their powers and produce data. Tattletale makes 10 thinker data, Regent makes 10 master data, Bitch makes 10 trump data and Grue makes 10 shaker data, so in total 40 base data for a job (low estimate, active use of power or proximity of power tends to give data that is higher), the data is then filtered through each shard and interpreted then they share said data with the other shards they share senses with, giving everyone 160 data each for one job.

So, we should really look into sharing senses with teams rather than individuals since the data then becomes data^2 instead of just data. Though this is not entirely accurate since shards seem to gather data in many categories at once not only those their hosts power is based on, another is that proximity to a power makes data, we see this when Shift got 12 brute and 11 changer data from being near Lung.

Edit: We need to get share senses with Equilibrium and Hypersparkle so we can get some of that sweet Endbringer battle data.

Edit 2: I just checked the Leviathan casualties when he attacked Brockton Bay, 49 capes died, and if we assume that the casualty rate is normal for an Endrbinger attack, that means that there were around two hundred capes there, each likely producing data in the upper bounds, then said data is multiplied by the amount of shards sharing senses.

So if we go for a low estimate with each cape producing only 20 base data, then that will be multiplied by not 200 because of the range limit, but lets go with it any way, 20*200 = 2000 data per shard that had a participating host, I don't think I need to say more that if we share senses with only a few shards in such a fight that we will be rich (share with 2: 4000, share with 4: 8000, etc.)
 
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So, I've been doing some thinking. I think that if we want a mental stress related trigger we should take this opportunity to trigger Taylor. While it looks like triggering Taylor now with her altered brain is a bad idea, that might not be as true as we think it is. Vhal has stated that we weren't supposed to discover this so soon and that it was mostly luck we did. Therefore we should have been presented with this trigger event while still in the dark. Which means that whatever is going on with the altered brain isn't going to be some drastic instant kill us event caused by triggering Taylor.

Edit: And if QA really is hiding somewhere (doesn't matter if she's in Taylor's brain like redshirt suggested or elsewhere) if the event flag is tripped by noticing QA we're too late to stop that.
 
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I hope we trigger Taylor after researching magic, hopefully as a Tinker.
Because I wants me some magical girls bullshit.
 
So, I've been doing some thinking. I think that if we want a mental stress related trigger we should take this opportunity to trigger Taylor. While it looks like triggering Taylor now with her altered brain is a bad idea, that might not be as true as we think it is. Vhal has stated that we weren't supposed to discover this so soon and that it was mostly luck we did. Therefore we should have been presented with this trigger event while still in the dark. Which means that whatever is going on with the altered brain isn't going to be some drastic instant kill us event caused by triggering Taylor.

While I'm not against trigger now, I think main problem I have with this situation is that it looks like a Tinker trigger or Tinker / Thinker one, which isn't my optimal choice as I would prefer Trump for Taylor. Or a build which focuses solely on magic or psionics. I guess it may be possible to go with this template?

[] Symbol(ism) Tinker.

-[] Tinker 240. Even if we follow canon type of sealing (not fanon = like computer programming) it's a very, very strong ability. In this case Tinker data provide 'blueprints' like in case of more standard Tinkers, which instinctively allow potential host to understand how to apply special effects to applied symbols based on supposedly mythical or supernatural symbols of current hosts culture.
-[] Trump 100. This is pretty much subcategory. Main reason for this dat is that in the end mechanics of this power here are based on bringing and connecting special abilities/combinations by manipulating application of outside materials (paint, scrolls, etc.) to force specific dimensional reactions to get certain final results.

Pretty much what we have is someone who knows Seals, Runes, etc. based on our cultural archetypes with power providing all kinds of possible templates. I think this is a really strong ability, although it requires lots of prep time and if you don't pick right seals designed against certain counters, you are in trouble. But with effort this is for example what grants access to Hiraishin. I think it may be fine to add 60-160 more tinker data if possible? I think adding 100 Thinker data would be fine as well to grant here.
 
Ok here is what I am voting for.

[X] Research Plan Research 2.0
-[X] Continue Research on Focused Research 1
--[X] Spend all the extra research points here (372 points)
---[X] Any overflow from other research will be used here
-[X] Memetic Proxy Filtering
-[X] Basic Psionic Theory 1

I hope that people will vote for this, but even you don't can all of you update your plans so that you use all of the research points we have, because if we use them we should be able to finish Focused research with one Omake more.

I actually messed up my mental math, the gain is way higher. One, every turn each category has been giving us around 10 data per person (sometimes it is higher or lower depends on what they are doing) so the gain is pretty good any way considering how few shards we get data from. Two, when I said my mental math was wrong I meant really wrong, for each time a parahuman generates data said data is multiplied by how many shards saw said data.
The 286 bonus shown with the Memetic Proxy Filtering 1 research project INCLUDES the 186 generic research points. Your number is too high.

While I am hoping that we do more sense-sharing, Vhalidictes said that any Shard that we share senses with can see EVERYTHING that our hosts are doing outside of mindscapes/dreams. I don't know whether it's a good idea to seek out Shards connected to the Triumvirate right now.
The downside to sense-sharing isn't hidden - Shards can see, in a general sense, what you're doing from the Host data you provide.

Sapient Shards can discover things, and non-sapient Shards may (or may not) choose to alert Scion (and/or Core Shards) based on existing programming.

EDIT: To elaborate here, you're not just sending combat data, by-default you're sending all data.

Which would include, say, any conversations that Taylor and Veronica had (outside mindscapes / dreams).

Now, most Shards aren't going to randomly trawl all that data (they aren't you), but there's always the potential for them to pay attention at the wrong time, or to the wrong thing...

EDIT 2: This also means that if you want me to ever elaborate (include in a Chapter) what, say, Sophia, Lisa, Amy, or Victoria are doing that day... just ask (vote on this). Right now, you have access to everything they do.

As for triggering Taylor, I'd prefer to put it off this once. I don't want Taylor to be traumatized from us putting it off too many times, but I'd really like to get Stabilize Trigger and let Gaea take a look at Taylor's brain first.

Edit: There's also the issue that the prologue ends when Taylor triggers, and it doesn't feel like we're ready for the quest to kick into high gear right now.
 
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While I'm not against trigger now, I think main problem I have with this situation is that it looks like a Tinker trigger or Tinker / Thinker one, which isn't my optimal choice as I would prefer Trump for Taylor. Or a build which focuses solely on magic or psionics. I guess it may be possible to go with this template?
Everyone, at great risk of stating the obvious... Taylor gets whatever power you pick. You're in charge of that.

Now, yes, on a particularly bad roll, she might modify the hell out of it, but it's not going to magically change into a completely different class of power. Maybe not even on a Critfail.

Now, there's also no chance for Pings or multi-trigger shenanigans because (as far as you know) there are no other Parahumans within miles of Taylor.

There are some good arguments to not allow Taylor to Trigger, but 'bad/wrong power because of weird Trigger effects' is not one of them.
 
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Please let's not trigger Taylor. The power argument will consume the thread and there's already so much going on.

I'm down for slowly restricting Coils power but I still think we should contact Negotiator first.
 
I don't disagree with the idea that it will consume the thread but I don't think that's a valid argument against triggering Taylor.

If trigger vote idea passes through I suspect voting will be organized. Also there is no limitation to power categories unlike some people (included me) suspected, so this is even better. I will possibly vote for Symbol(ism) Tinker or Monju as both are absurdly versatile power ideas. But as mentioned - if trigger vote doesn't go through, so be it.

Also I suspect that even if we trigger Taylor, we may still try to organize it that she meets Amy with our manipulation to deal with her health problems, so it may be fine.

Also taking her intelligence, I think it may also be worth it to send some ideas (but NOT before we contact with her for real to not spook her) sending some ideas like templates for some things may actually be interesting as I think she is more then smart enough to mimic for example Tony Stark in a way and allow her to use Super Technology.

But in the end I'm fine with both triggering and not.
 
It really isn't, but ugh. I suppose the fires will never go out, it's Worm. Every time we stamp one out the next one burn even brighter.

And this isn't Marvel or ADC, it's still Worm. Taylor isn't inventing an arc reactor unless we tell her how. She's not a billionaire genius inventor with a weapons company, she's not Bruce Wayne, she's not even Peter Parker. She has neither the resources nor the education. And what does that have anything to with symbolism?

If we maker her a tinker I say screw it. No restrictions, build anything, mass producible. Real tech. She can blackbox it on her own to make it look like tinkertech to the PRT and gangs and save the high quality stuff for her crew.

Free Dragon and cut a deal so she's the public face of the tech boom.
 
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I thought we wanted Stabilize Trigger so we're not rolling for deviation from the powers we give her?
Since, you know, that could end up mutating a power set we agree on to something we all don't like with a bad roll.
We've been lucky for far with minimal deviation, but we shouldn't bank on that luck staying around.

I mean, I guess it's up to voting, but I'd prefer not to.

We can gather information and set ourselves up to be better. After all, streaming out data is a choice independent of streaming it in. I see no reason not to get as many incoming streams from Hosts as we can. We don't have to share out with non-sapient Shards, as being non-sapient they won't question anything. Plus, we still haven't just taken all the data currency Twin has, and it has no personality, so, good source there.
 
We can gather information and set ourselves up to be better. After all, streaming out data is a choice independent of streaming it in. I see no reason not to get as many incoming streams from Hosts as we can. We don't have to share out with non-sapient Shards, as being non-sapient they won't question anything. Plus, we still haven't just taken all the data currency Twin has, and it has no personality, so, good source there.
Good point about how we don't have to stream data out. Though I had been thinking that we could use the non-sapient Shards as "banks" for info whenever we really need some. If we don't stream data out, then they don't get as much info that we could ask for later. I guess that's the general risk of sense-sharing though.

Maybe we could set up a new protocol?

-[ ] Create a new protocol that if the Shard senses aberrance in Administrator, it is to report this to Administrator and only Administrator.

I don't know how likely that would be to work.
 
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Omake Research: Basic Dimensional Theory
[Basic Dimensional Theory 1 Research]

Alright, it's well past time that you started looking into this, given that it's the basis for almost all basic shard effects. Being able to understand this is gonna be key if you ever want to actually be able to deal with Zion in any real way.

Well, the obvious place to start is your own dimensional manipulations. What information, exactly, does a "Shard Address" contain? You start by comparing and contrasting the various addresses you've already compiled, looking for similarities.

It looks like "addresses" take the form of an incredibly complex equation that you can use to locate the dimesional coordinates needed to open a gate to another universe. By default, the gates are located in precisely equivalent locations in space - a gate in your North America opens on Emote's North America.

But it looks like not all dimensional coordinates are equally valid. You try making tiny tweaks to Emote's old address, but instead of a different world, it looks like those gates "snap" to Emote's original world, and end up using way more energy in the process.

Interestingly, some of those gates end up being displaced in space - a gate you opened in your dimension's analog of Europe ended up halfway to Emote's analog of the Moon. Maybe the portal you used to deposit mass on your moon works by "dipping" into the interdimensional sea? That'd make sense. You'll need to study a lot more math and do a lot more study before you can replicate Doormaker's precise portal placement, though.

In general, it seems like across dimensional space, there's a limited set of conditions that leads to a valid and self-sustaining universe. That... shouldn't be as surprising as it is. If there were an unlimited number of valid alternative universes, then the Entities wouldn't have their canonical motivation for this whole experiment. You spend some time going over your stored addresses yet again, looking for a common factor. You have... limited success. Hopefully, you'll eventually be able to check if a given Adresss is valid just by calculating if it meets the criteria, but you're not there yet.

Still, you can open gates in more places than just the Earths other shards are on: you have several constantly active portals to Earth Bet, after all. Annoyingly, it looks like the coordinates used for targeting hosts are stored in an entirely different format then shard addresses, but it should only be a matter of time until you figure out the differences.

Hah, if you figure out how to open mass-transfer gates to Earth Bet, you could just use your incredible size to bodyslam people. Or cities. Or continents. It'd be a very direct way for Taylor to use her Shard... too bad that's probably incredibly Abberant and would end with the Warrior melting you.

Maybe you should gather some data from some of Cauldron's staff's shards? They spend lots of time on parallel earths. Actually, Doormaker's shard in particular probably has a ton of data on all this...
 
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