The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
1. he will
2. 12


pretty much, and you gave them a lot by taken out their worst neighbors
wow...now this makes me feel like we should merge...

I am thinking I am now for-merge now...but only because technically the vote is to find out more about it...that isit.

so its not actaully happening with this vote...its justs us finding out what it entails....

[X] Enjou​

I think that counts my vote?
-edit- I can't frigging tell what the tally is telling me. its not actually showing me what the different vote slots are and they are crossing over eachother so theres multiples of everything.
-edit2-
it seems like most people are voting on the same things anyway. can someone clarify what the different votes even differecate by? I only know pro/against the merger. everything else is the same?
 
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Zaghâsh Armoury
@Durin
-----------

Zaghâsh Armoury


Zaghâsh hates Chaos. He was birthed by people predated by Chaos, he was born to a battle with Chaos, and he's been fighting Chaos ever since. Witch, heretic, mutant, or daemon, regardless of the form of the Archenemy's emissary, he hates them, and so do his people. Over time, numerous items have been developed and crafted to better combat the forces of the Ruinous Powers, with new technologies from the minor god alliance and the eldar providing further contributions.

Absortis Crucifix
A cross of blessed iron, forged in the heat released by the burning souls of unrepentant heretics and engraved with proclamations denouncing the unclean. While potent constructs on their own, Absortis Crucifixes do not exist to be bare. A daemon, still living, is bound to the unfinished Crucifix and set to light. Pyromancy is used to peer into its blazing corpus and retrieve a fragment of that daemon's True Name. While the daemon will eventually reform somewhere in the depths of the Warp, it will reform weakened, for its skeleton will remain pinned to its pyre. Arcane glyphs and runes of warding are etched into bones of the skeleton in a powerful latticework of warding that is further empowered by the incorporation of the incomplete daemonym. The final product is a battlefield installation with an area of effect that disrupts the existence of daemonkind at a fundamental level, though their duration of effect is limited and based on the power of the crucified daemon. Absortis Crucifixes come in multiple sizes.

Bell of Martyred Souls
Fashioned after the legendary Bell of Lost Souls on lost Terra, the Bells of Martyred Souls are massive constructs of iron alloy adorned in hexagrammatic wards and inscribed with the names of martyrs who've died protecting Aan. Each world has at least one and the construction of one is when a colony can be considered to be fully mature. Their peals are typically heard only when a great hero from that world is martyred, but sound constantly when the world is under assault and its defenders die in droves holding the line. The deafening sounds of its wails disrupt the concentration of enemy psykers and embolden the mortal souls under the Death God's auspice.

Flaming Weapons
An alternative to chain weapons, flaming weapons utilise promethium not to motivate metal teeth into rapid cyclic movement, but instead to wreath their forms in coats of flame. While their ability to cut into flesh and penetrate armour is inferior, their ability to set fire to the enemy does make up for it.

Incense Munitions
Munitions similar in form to smoke munitions, these grenades and shells are instead filled with sacred incense blessed by priests of Zaghâsh. When detonated, they release billowing clouds of strong-smelling smoke that daemons find repulsive. Though they're more expensive to produce and cover a smaller area than conventional smoke munitions, the slightly loosened grip on reality that daemons have while passing through them is advantageous enough.

Martyrflake Bolts
Bolt shells whose explosive cores are mixed in with the ash and bone flakes of those who've sacrificed themselves to Zaghâsh. Carrying a small fragment of the power of true sacrifice, the explosive charges of these rare shells scour the unholy forms and wretched souls of the tainted.

Necrotek Colossus
Necrotek Colossi are Holy Engines inspired by Aeldari Wraithlords and Space Marine Dreadnoughts, even incorporating some of the technologies of the latter. Like a Space Marine Dreadnought, a Necrotek Colossus holds an extremely heavily-armoured sarcophagus within itself, but unlike a Dreadnought, it is a true sarcophagus. In the sarcophagus is interred the corpse of one of those the Cult of Zaghâsh has canonised. The corpse of this saint anchors the spirit of a Herald of Zaghâsh, infusing the war machine with its mighty power. While potent war engines on their own, they're at their strongest when fighting alongside mortal warriors, for when they die their souls are absorbed by the Herald's lantern, empowering the Holy Engine by their blessed martyrdom.

Skull Staff
Skull Staffs are Force Staffs of the highest quality, bearing numerous purity seals and tipped with the skull of a Saint who was either martyred in battle or else lived a long, dutiful life in service to Zaghâsh before passing on. The forces of the unclean can scarcely withstand the weight of death so pure, and will flinch away from the powers cast through these weapons. Only other Saints of Zaghâsh may wield these focuses.

Soul Blades
Sacrificing souls to Zaghâsh is heretical, but using bodies for fuel is par for the course. The bodies of executed psykers are used to fuel furnaces wherein master craftsmen make the finest melee weapons in Aan, each of which is blessed and anointed by a priest of Zaghâsh. It's said that these swords shear through not only a sinner's flesh, but their soul as well, wracking them with the weight of their apostasy. True or not, the technology and craftsmanship that go into them mark them as powerful weapons regardless of superstition.

Subjugation Chains
Chains constructed of adamantium and unusual, psychoactive metal, every link bearing an arcane rune. Subjugation Chains are tools that channel psychic power to choke out the strength and consciousness of those bound by them, with the strength of their effect determined by the psykers who wield them.
 
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wow...now this makes me feel like we should merge...

I am thinking I am now for-merge now...but only because technically the vote is to find out more about it...that isit.

so its not actaully happening with this vote...its justs us finding out what it entails....

[] enjou

I think that counts my vote?
-edit- I can't frigging tell what the tally is telling me. its not actually showing me what the different vote slots are and they are crossing over eachother so theres multiples of everything.
-edit2-
it seems like most people are voting on the same things anyway. can someone clarify what the different votes even differecate by? I only know pro/against the merger. everything else is the same?

Put an x in the brackets for Enjou there.

The only difference thus far is that Enjou is for the merger and helix is against.
 
[X] Enjou

@Enjou I think we should go with the compromise option:
[]Plan Economic Compromise
-Raise the tithe from 25% to 27%
-Lower the the rebate from 1% per every extra 1% tithed to 0.85% per 1%.

Basically 40% of Surt's proposal and 60% of Bertil's one.
Going with tithe only places too much strain on Vanaheim's economy, which I'm getting really concerned with.

Though please change the tithe to a nice 27.5% instead of 27%.
 
pretty much, and you gave them a lot by taken out their worst neighbors
Valinor and those 3 Orks were their worst neighbors? They're the weakest.

I did find it slightly odd that Dragon's Nest was so willing to help us out without anything in return, though this does explain that.
Isn't she married to Garp and so it would be problematic for her to be Lord Lady Marshal?
 
Valinor and those 3 Orks were their worst neighbors? They're the weakest.

I did find it slightly odd that Dragon's Nest was so willing to help us out without anything in return, though this does explain that.

Isn't she married to Garp and so it would be problematic for her to be Lord Lady Marshal?
they were also the closest
 
I mean, I can easily see Abom and Orks being much more persistent in their aggression against their neighbors than most. Before Turoq decided we need to die/he wanted our shinies, he seemed quite content to just engage in low level raiding until/unless we showed weakness, and that seems to be the norm for generic non-Abomination Chaos polities in this day and age.
 
[X] Vote for Champion Surt's proposal to increase the tithe
-[X] Argument 1: The Trust's elites have allowed it to punch above its weight against many dangerous foes, and will surely continue to do so. Ensuring that worlds can supply them in larger numbers is good for the security of the Trust.
-[X] Argument 2: Given the upcoming tech trade, it is very likely that we will receive new technologies that will enhance the Trust's industrial capacity, which will increase the amount that worlds are able to tithe. As such, we may be able to lower the tithe rate once these technologies are implemented due to that increase.

[X] Vote against pursuing a merger with the Dragon's Nest
-[X] Argument 1: Expanding to such a larger area would require a change in the government of the Trust because its current methods of administration simply can't scale to such an increased size. Any reasonable agreement that they would be likely to accept would also result in them having a majority control in the system of government vastly changing the political landscape of the Trust.
-[X] Argument 2: We've recently experienced difficulty defending the 37 worlds of the current Trust against high speed raiding efforts by the forces of Chaos and this vulnerability would only be increased if our size expanded. Against larger more predicted threats we already pool our resources. This would make us more vulnerable to raiding without making us better against a major assault.
-[X] Argument 3: Improving their infrastructure to the point that they are a greater contributor would be the work of a century, and given the primary economic engine of the Trust is the largely unreproducible productivity of Niflheim and Muspelheim they likely wouldn't ever contribute as much proportionally.
-[X] Argument 4: The heavy infiltration by spies would be very difficult to overcome without the advantage of a century of isolation. Not only could we expect more rapid leakage of technology, but it will likely lead to increased penetration of spies in their traditional roles of providing information on our activities, resources, and current troop dispositions.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.
-[X] Saint Lin is a living treasure who was blessed by the Emperor himself, and thus we should do what we can to preserve his life and health. He's a living symbol of the Emperor we fight for, the last such living Saint, and his value is far beyond anything simply material.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to decode the locked data jewels we possess.
-[X] Decoding the data jewels on our own will take an immense amount of Archmagos Tranth's and Grandmaster Ridcully's time, and the Eldar have the ability to save much of that by doing it quickly. They both have other tasks that they could be doing that would be of great value to the Trust, so this time savings would be worth it. Further, we would have access to the technology and knowledge in the crystals earlier, allowing the Trust to benefit from those technologies sooner than later, and possibly use that data in the upcoming tech trade. The Eldar also wouldn't really gain anything from it, since their tech base is already extremely advanced and based on different principles.
 
One thing to note is that merging with Dragon's Nest will allow us to significantly accelerate the Mechanicus Reformation, as Dragon's Nest has had to reform much earlier than us.
 
[X] Vote for Champion Surt's proposal to increase the tithe
-[X] Argument 1: The Trust's elites have allowed it to punch above its weight against many dangerous foes, and will surely continue to do so. Ensuring that worlds can supply them in larger numbers is good for the security of the Trust.
-[X] Argument 2: Given the upcoming tech trade, it is very likely that we will receive new technologies that will enhance the Trust's industrial capacity, which will increase the amount that worlds are able to tithe. As such, we may be able to lower the tithe rate once these technologies are implemented due to that increase.

[X] Vote to puruse a merger with the Dragon's Nest
-[X] Argument: The benefits of merging with the Dragon's Nest will outweigh the negatives. Improving their existing infrastructure with our technology would provide a major boost to the Trust's total production capacity, and in time would outstrip growth from elsewhere. For negatives, we are already obligated by our alliance to send forces to fight for them in the event of them being attacked, so while merging increases that it doesn't increase our obligations from being nothing. With regards to the security issues, it's already very likely that some of our tech will end up stolen, though the Chaotic polities will not be all that likely to share it with eachother, and we can further mitigate that though a careful merger where we dedicate the right resources to rooting out infiltrators, improving internal security within the Dragon's Nest, and improving the technology of worlds only as they meet security goals.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to decode the locked data jewels we possess.
-[X] Decoding the data jewels on our own will take an immense amount of Archmagos Tranth's and Grandmaster Ridcully's time, and the Eldar have the ability to save much of that by doing it quickly. They both have other tasks that they could be doing that would be of great value to the Trust, so this time savings would be worth it. Further, we would have access to the technology and knowledge in the crystals earlier, allowing the Trust to benefit from those technologies sooner than later, and possibly use that data in the upcoming tech trade. The Eldar also wouldn't really gain anything from it, since their tech base is already extremely advanced and based on different principles.

While I do support a merger with Dragons Nest, I am opposed to any sort of feudal structure. At our current and likely future scale we can use a more formally organised and integrated polity, without the significant cohesion issues a neo-feudal model brings.
 
1. To much spreadsheet work for me, to high rebate for low increases
2. Not enough support to pass
To 1. I build the equation so that only the same two variables are needed. So you would "only" need to visit the cells that calculate rebate. I admit that I do not know how many that are but I can only speculate on a number between 21 and 210...

But I can make it easier!
Article:
My Original:
'=IF((D4*B4)<(D4/(1+B4)*(B4+1-1/(1+B4)));D4*B4;D4/(1+B4)*(B4+1-1/(1+B4)))

Replaceable
'=IF((XX*YY)<(XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY)));XX*YY;XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY)))
XX is the Upkeep of the troops
YY is the thite percentage

=IF(
(XX*YY)<(XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY)));
XX*YY;
XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY))​
)
IF checks wheter the old or new equation is cheaper.
Until 61% the old is used. Including 62% the new is used.
"XX/(1+YY)" calculate the upkeep before the upkeep of the thited troops is added to it. XX reprecent 100% + YY of thited troops. It can be peplaced by ZZ if your spreadsheet differenciate the two already.
"ZZ*(YY+1-1/(1+YY))" is a shortenet refraction of "ZZ*YY+ZZ*(1-1/(1+YY))". It calculates the portion of the upkeep for the thited troops and an additional rebate to the planet to cover training and other cost for the troops.
That second part can be removed but than only the thited troops recieve a rebate for their upkeep.
The work would still be to copy the equation somewhere (text editor), find the cell for the rebate in the spreadsheet, replace the equations variables with the cell coordinates, insert equation into the rebate cell.

Here the relevant result:
Upkeep Cost Thite % Thite Cost Total Upkeep   Rebate Total Cover % Thite Cover Normal Cover
500 5% 25 525   26.25 5% 105% 0.25%
500 20% 100 600   120 20% 120% 4%
500 60% 300 800   480 60% 160% 36%
500 70% 350 850   555.88 65.4% 158.82% 41.18%
500 100% 500 1000   750 75% 150% 50%
1. What is your opinion on this compromise?
1a. Do you have questions? I know that I don't like getting math thrown at me without any context but I do not know what you want.
2. What is the members opinion on this compromise?

Sorry If I hount you with this but the proposals in the update will only solve the poblem in the short term...
 
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I haven't seen much discussion on what the spend the Eldar favors on.

I would like to propose webway access.
Thats because we have talked it out already.

The part of webway connected to our region is wrecked. No go.

The second maybe.

I call it the Klatchian foreign legion.

Basically the idea as proposed by @Portec is to semi permanently second forces to the Eldar in a foreign legion kinda way to help them as much as possible. They need all the help they can get we need all the minor favours we can get EVERYBODY'S WINNER ding ding.

Thoughts?
While I am a fan of our Helguard gathering experience and bettering the galaxy, we are a tiny polity. How many Helguard would we be able to do without? We need all that we can get.

This could be compensated for by what we would get from the Eldar for them, but as we are tiny, and therefore couldnt send many, I do not think that we would get much.

During the Eldar deal they asked for troops on a 10 year or 100 year basis.

The foreign legion is more a thing of repeatedly leasing for 10 years instead of an commitment for, for exampe, 100 years or longer.
100 deployment has a big bonus to value to the Eldar.

We resupply those forces, send new guy, and recall old ones. Its not that we are sending a bunch of soldiers away to fight for a century nonstop, that would be silly.

-[X] Vote to Increase tithe
I would recommend some cap to the % of the rebate, and ideally also some coordination (does the Trust wants to pay for advanced PA troops? Which kind the most? How much can they afford?).

-[X] We should increase the tithe for the rebate. Our elite power trooper are a great boon to against the many enemies we face. There are over 42 trillions orks and trillions of chaos worshipers in the region. We will never not be at war with them and to think other wise is folly. Our enemies united briefly and were crushed by the Eldar and our forces but we should not rely on the eldar always being there for us especially since the Favors owned are finite and they are only one of two sane Galactic power we know of that are trying to stem the tides. Our forces need to be prepared to combat the threats we have against us and our elite troops are one of the best options we currently have.
There is not a single argument for more PA troops here that I can see. Only stronger military.

Which is not the same thing.

The Trust Guard judges them an efficient use of resources, and one necessary to Trusts safety. Thats all that should be needed to be said.

-[X]Our tech will eventually get stolen. The inquisition does not believe they can permanently stop the forces of chaos from trying to steal tech from us. We need work with our strength which is the ability to work together. We as a species are stronger together working with others than we are separate from each other. Chaos polities cannot work together without fear of betrayal or mistrust of each other. We can I look around this council and see people who can accomplish great things together. Dragon's Nest are our fellow humans and need help. With our tech and help they can get rid of thier chaos infiltrators and grow in strength which will in turn help us. It will a minimum of a 150 years before we join but we must change and grow in a galaxy that will destroy us if we are alone. Dozens of Tyranid hives, Necrons returning in Great numbers, chaos getting stronger and the C'tan are all threats that are coming to the galaxy. We must rise to the challenge and survive or die.
Not a fan. Also, does not mention the tech conference. Even if we rooted out all the spies in the Trust today and caught all the new ones the tech would get out there anyway.

_[X] Saint lin's Living longer is one more moment where we have a part of the Emperor still in the universe till he returns. It is worth any cost.
Its really not. Consider what military value the minor favor has, it could easily be the difference between Trusts survival and death. And our survival is vastly more important that Lins life.

Not saying that we shouldn't propose it, but this argument isn't right.

-[X] I wish to as the Eldar to deode the data crystals but not unlock them. They will be under guard and return as soon as possible and the knowledge can be used for the betterment of the Trust and to trade in the coming conference.

Seems pretty antagonistic to the Eldar. Under guard, as soon as possible...

I would say this: Decoding all the data jewels is not viable for us. They almost certainly contain extremely valuable information and technologies. The choice we have is to let them lie around unopened, or ask for help. The Eldar can help, have skills well suited for it, nobody else we have access to currently can, they owe us, and with their help the data would be ready for trade by the conference.
 
To 1. I build the equation so that only the same two variables are needed. So you would "only" need to visit the cells that calculate rebate. I admit that I do not know how many that are but I can only speculate on a number between 21 and 210...

But I can make it easier!
Article:
My Original:
'=IF((D4*B4)<(D4/(1+B4)*(B4+1-1/(1+B4)));D4*B4;D4/(1+B4)*(B4+1-1/(1+B4)))

Replaceable
'=IF((XX*YY)<(XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY)));XX*YY;XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY)))
XX is the Upkeep of the troops
YY is the thite percentage

=IF(
(XX*YY)<(XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY)));
XX*YY;
XX/(1+YY)*(YY+1-1/(1+YY))​
)
IF checks wheter the old or new equation is cheaper.
Until 61% the old is used. Including 62% the new is used.
"XX/(1+YY)" calculate the upkeep before the upkeep of the thited troops is added to it. XX reprecent 100% + YY of thited troops. It can be peplaced by ZZ if your spreadsheet differenciate the two already.
"ZZ*(YY+1-1/(1+YY))" is a shortenet refraction of "ZZ*YY+ZZ*(1-1/(1+YY))". It calculates the portion of the upkeep for the thited troops and an additional rebate to the planet to cover training and other cost for the troops.
That second part can be removed but than only the thited troops recieve a rebate for their upkeep.
The work would still be to copy the equation somewhere (text editor), find the cell for the rebate in the spreadsheet, replace the equations variables with the cell coordinates, insert equation into the rebate cell.

Here the relevant result:
Upkeep Cost Thite % Thite Cost Total Upkeep   Rebate Total Cover % Thite Cover Normal Cover
500 5% 25 525   26.25 5% 105% 0.25%
500 20% 100 600   120 20% 120% 4%
500 60% 300 800   480 60% 160% 36%
500 70% 350 850   555.88 65.4% 158.82% 41.18%
500 100% 500 1000   750 75% 150% 50%
1. What is your opinion on this compromise?
1a. Do you have questions? I know that I don't like getting math thrown at me without any context but I do not know what you want.
2. What is the members opinion on this compromise?

Sorry If I hount you with this but the proposals in the update will only solve the poblem in the short term...
that would work
 
Its really not. Consider what military value the minor favor has, it could easily be the difference between Trusts survival and death. And our survival is vastly more important that Lins life.

Not saying that we shouldn't propose it, but this argument isn't right.
The thing is that we can get minor Eldar favours with relative ease, in exchange of Greater Divination (3-4 per favor)
 
[X] Vote for Champion Surt's proposal to increase the tithe
-[X] Argument 1: The Trust's elites have allowed it to punch above its weight against many dangerous foes, and will surely continue to do so. Ensuring that worlds can supply them in larger numbers is good for the security of the Trust.
-[X] Argument 2: Given the upcoming tech trade, it is very likely that we will receive new technologies that will enhance the Trust's industrial capacity, which will increase the amount that worlds are able to tithe. As such, we may be able to lower the tithe rate once these technologies are implemented due to that increase.

[X] Vote to puruse a merger with the Dragon's Nest
-[X] Argument: The benefits of merging with the Dragon's Nest will outweigh the negatives. Improving their existing infrastructure with our technology would provide a major boost to the Trust's total production capacity, and in time would outstrip growth from elsewhere. For negatives, we are already obligated by our alliance to send forces to fight for them in the event of them being attacked, so while merging increases that it doesn't increase our obligations from being nothing. With regards to the security issues, it's already very likely that some of our tech will end up stolen, though the Chaotic polities will not be all that likely to share it with eachother, and we can further mitigate that though a careful merger where we dedicate the right resources to rooting out infiltrators, improving internal security within the Dragon's Nest, and improving the technology of worlds only as they meet security goals.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to decode the locked data jewels we possess.
-[X] Decoding the data jewels on our own will take an immense amount of Archmagos Tranth's and Grandmaster Ridcully's time, and the Eldar have the ability to save much of that by doing it quickly. They both have other tasks that they could be doing that would be of great value to the Trust, so this time savings would be worth it. Further, we would have access to the technology and knowledge in the crystals earlier, allowing the Trust to benefit from those technologies sooner than later, and possibly use that data in the upcoming tech trade. The Eldar also wouldn't really gain anything from it, since their tech base is already extremely advanced and based on different principles.
 
While I am a fan of our Helguard gathering experience and bettering the galaxy, we are a tiny polity. How many Helguard would we be able to do without? We need all that we can get.

This could be compensated for by what we would get from the Eldar for them, but as we are tiny, and therefore couldnt send many, I do not think that we would get much.
A single Helguard bridage is worth 2 credits seconded for 100 years that's 10 which is enough to purchase a message to a polity across the galaxy.

We only sent a handful and we've expanded their numbers enormously in the mean time.

The thing is that we can get minor Eldar favours with relative ease, in exchange of Greater Divination (3-4 per favor)
Yah, but we want as many as possible ASAP.

And we do need greater divinations for our own stuff too.

[X] Vote for Champion Surt's proposal to increase the tithe
-[X] Argument 1: The Trust's elites have allowed it to punch above its weight against many dangerous foes, and will surely continue to do so. Ensuring that worlds can supply them in larger numbers is good for the security of the Trust.
-[X] Argument 2: Given the upcoming tech trade, it is very likely that we will receive new technologies that will enhance the Trust's industrial capacity, which will increase the amount that worlds are able to tithe. As such, we may be able to lower the tithe rate once these technologies are implemented due to that increase.

[X] Vote to puruse a merger with the Dragon's Nest
-[X] Argument: The benefits of merging with the Dragon's Nest will outweigh the negatives. Improving their existing infrastructure with our technology would provide a major boost to the Trust's total production capacity, and in time would outstrip growth from elsewhere. For negatives, we are already obligated by our alliance to send forces to fight for them in the event of them being attacked, so while merging increases that it doesn't increase our obligations from being nothing. With regards to the security issues, it's already very likely that some of our tech will end up stolen, though the Chaotic polities will not be all that likely to share it with eachother, and we can further mitigate that though a careful merger where we dedicate the right resources to rooting out infiltrators, improving internal security within the Dragon's Nest, and improving the technology of worlds only as they meet security goals.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to have Saint Lin healed as best as they can manage.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to decode the locked data jewels we possess.
-[X] Decoding the data jewels on our own will take an immense amount of Archmagos Tranth's and Grandmaster Ridcully's time, and the Eldar have the ability to save much of that by doing it quickly. They both have other tasks that they could be doing that would be of great value to the Trust, so this time savings would be worth it. Further, we would have access to the technology and knowledge in the crystals earlier, allowing the Trust to benefit from those technologies sooner than later, and possibly use that data in the upcoming tech trade. The Eldar also wouldn't really gain anything from it, since their tech base is already extremely advanced and based on different principles.

[X] Propose that we talk to the Eldar during the upcoming meeting about possibly continuing to loan the troops to them that we did to pay for the upcoming meeting. This should not be done for free, but earning even minor favors from the Empire of Ashes shouldn't be discounted given how much they are worth.
 
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Ultimately I feel like a confederacy of some form is the most plausible arrangement there, from both sides. It would allow both the Trust and Dragon's Nest to keep most of their current setup for governance, outside of the powers granted to the confederacy itself, which would solve any issues arising from people being worried about dilution of votes in the High Council and the Blood Dragons wouldn't need to worry about giving up their authority. It would also really simplify bringing any peer or near-peer powers into the fold going forward. Of course, the downside would be that it would form another layer of government and wouldn't be as capable of steering things strategically as a stronger form of central government would.
A confederacy is great, if with its own problems, when the joining powers are about equal.

Sucks when they are not however.

[X] Vote for Champion Surt's proposal to increase the tithe
-[X] Argument 1: The Trust's elites have allowed it to punch above its weight against many dangerous foes, and will surely continue to do so. Ensuring that worlds can supply them in larger numbers is good for the security of the Trust.
-[X] Argument 2: Given the upcoming tech trade, it is very likely that we will receive new technologies that will enhance the Trust's industrial capacity, which will increase the amount that worlds are able to tithe. As such, we may be able to lower the tithe rate once these technologies are implemented due to that increase.
Better tech will likely include better weapons and thus more expensive military.

I do not see why anything more then this is necessary: PA elites are a powerful and efficient, yet finite, assets, and Trusts security benefits significantly from encouraging their growth as much as possible.

[X] Propose spending a Minor Favor with the Eldar to decode the locked data jewels we possess.
-[X] Decoding the data jewels on our own will take an immense amount of Archmagos Tranth's and Grandmaster Ridcully's time, and the Eldar have the ability to save much of that by doing it quickly. They both have other tasks that they could be doing that would be of great value to the Trust, so this time savings would be worth it. Further, we would have access to the technology and knowledge in the crystals earlier, allowing the Trust to benefit from those technologies sooner than later, and possibly use that data in the upcoming tech trade. The Eldar also wouldn't really gain anything from it, since their tech base is already extremely advanced and based on different principles.
This does not compare the value of the actions needed to unlock them ourselves to the value of a minor favor, which is probably the first thing the decision makers would want to know.

I would simply say that the Ridcully actions alone needed to unlock the jewels would be more then what would earn us a new minor favor.

This is correct right? If not, other arguments can be added, like the Tranth actions, the time needed, the value of having the data available at the conference, the risks, etc.

Simple, logical, factual.

the Helguard. and the reason you do not just have Helguard is that the reasons your elites are so good is that they are recruited from your best soldiers and then given further training, just giving people Helguard training does not create Helguard
Huh. OK then.

Might have picked a wrong example, as the argument started with Titans, where skill doesnt play a role... except that it does, with exceptional skill being required to produce the EM and RM needed.

Looks like you are right @agumentic .

The thing is that we can get minor Eldar favours with relative ease, in exchange of Greater Divination (3-4 per favor)
Nonetheless a single minor favor is worth a LOT. The one we have used saved us a good portion of our fleets, at least one colony, got rid of Turoq, and protected our tech.

Even if they were easy to get (which they are relatively, but 20-25 years of Ridcullys time is not cheap. Just more then worth it.), we still really shouldn't waste them.

I agree with spending the favor to extend Lins life, but its most certainly not worth "any cost".
 
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Do people voting for me directly care if I remove this one or not?

[] Propose that we talk to the Eldar during the upcoming meeting about possibly continuing to loan the troops to them that we did to pay for the upcoming meeting. This should not be done for free, but earning even minor favors from the Empire of Ashes shouldn't be discounted given how much they are worth.

I'm not super keen on it, and some people don't seem to be including it when they just copy the rest.
 
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