The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 592 80.3%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.7%

  • Total voters
    737
[X] Plan No Favor
-[X] Ask for Extraordinary (10 pts worth) of Fleet Support in dealing with the WAAAGH
-[X] Do not ask for Guard support dealing with the Waaagh
-[X] Do not ask for Astartes support dealing with the Waaagh
 
[X] Plan owe a favor

Ok I am convinced we need to quit doing the regular SV thing and actually go out and help someone and take someone's help. Owing them a favor both helps us and them long term wether it be helping them military or helping them upgrade there industry.
 
Embers in the Dusk Troop Grades and Types
Embers in the Dusk Troop Grades and Types
Given how there's been some confusion on how the many types of Troops stack up and how the different grades interact here's a more through breakdown. The criteria according to Durin is that Chaff are the mass produced army's fielded as standard troops, Elites are the hard to make units that are a finite resource, and Heroes are skilled individual persons who can't be duplicated in mass or they would be Elites. The examples have been ran past Durin.

Chaff Grade
  • Trash: Ork Gretchin, Chaos Cultist, Civilian Militia
  • Low: Ork Boyz, PDF, Traitor PDF, Gaunts, Tau Auxiliaries
  • Mid: Ork specialist Boyz, Guard, Traitor Guard, Techguard, Genestealers, Our Militia
  • High: Ork 'Ard Boyz/ Scarboyz, Famous Guard units, Skitarii ,Chaos Warp Spawn, Tyranid specialist, Our PDF, Tau Fire Warriors Stormtroopers, Chaos Warbands
  • Extreme: Ork massed Veteran Nob units, Chaos Daemons, Our Helltroopers, Our Helguard, Psyker Regiments
Chaff are the backbone of any army. Most have several grades of chaff as well from the lowest Trash to tie down the enemy to High grade near Elites that stiffen the lines. As the name suggest Trash units are utter garbage. About the only use for them is forcing the enemy to spent time and ammo killing them rather than your better troops. And hey, maybe they'll get lucky and beat a few hapless units to death with rocks and sticks! But they have to share the stick, they only have the one. They are the lowest of the low. If you're using Trash troops it'll because you have nothing better and need warm body's.

Low grade troops on the other hand are the most basic troop that you can expect not to fall down under a stiff breeze and sometimes even know which way to point the gun! They make up the meat of most fighting forces being the perfect ratio of cheap, replaceable, useful, and numerous. It's not usually worth transporting them to a fight but to hold vast amounts of ground against peer or lesser opponents they're indispensable. Their best used against other chaff units mowing down Trash, fighting other Low grades, and bloodying Mid grade units. High grade Chaff and better will just crush them just as much as Trash unit are. However enough of them can kill a lone Elite or Hero by drowning them in their blood if nothing else. Expect a insane Kill: Death ratio against them in this case if you try it.

Mid Grade Chaff are the front line units. Pound for pound better trained, equipped, and lead they are the ones you bring to a fight. They make the majority of a attacking army when you can't waste space on lesser troops but still need to take on enemy Chaff like PDF. Low grade chaff are what they're made to sweep aside but expect losses in doing so. Fellow Mid Grades are needed to match them and form the backbone of any hard point. They can swarm High grade chaff at major cost but should past that off to their own High grades if at all possible. It's unlikely but they can overwhelm a Bottom tier Elite unit or Crap Hero with the wrong setup at extreme cost and lots of luck. Very much not recommend unless you have no other choice.

High Grade chaff are costly. These are basically the best massed units in a army. Be it by shear experience, home world gained advantage, extensive training, or what have you, they are relatively finite but still fill entire orders of battle. If Mid grade chaff are the front line they are the tip of the spear. They are best used to secure critical objectives and break the back of enemy formations. Trash and Low grade units fall like wheat while Mid grade struggle to hold them at bay. The only thing they have to fear is fellow High grades or enemy Elites. If needed they are the only Chaff unit that can be counted on to hold most Elites for any amount of time and can with some regularity kill the lowest Heroes at crippling cost.

Extreme Grade chaff are only Chaff and not Elites because of how damned many of them there are. This is what happens when you turn what was and Elite unit into a standard formation like our Helguard or Da Crumpers. By just not caring for the shear expense needed Extreme grade chaff are rare but when present are a army of near Elite troops. They have the killing ability of Elites with the replaceability and numbers of chaff. If available use to smash High grade Chaff and overwhelm enemy Elites. The core of any anti-hero force needs to include them as they are expendable while still have a decent chance at winning. Do not use on Low or Trash grade troops if you have anything else you can do with them.

Elites
  • Bottom tier: Ork Cyborks, Ork Nobz, Hive Guard, Myrmidon, Veteran Psyker Regiments, Ork Flash Gitz, Tyranid Warriors, The Black Irons
  • Mid tier: Inquisition Kill Teams, Life-Guard, Tau Battlesuits, Aspect Warriors, Elite Psyker Regiments
  • Elite: Mega Nobz, The Phase-Tigers, Space Marines
  • Super Elite: Primaris Executation Force, Terminators, Grey Knights, Last Hunters
Elites are the trump cards of a army. They can be made but requirements and cost keep them from being made into Extreme Grade chaff. Losing a Elite unit hurts but is not the major blow that a loss Hero is. Bottom tier Elites are usually basic units given the best available gear and training. If you have Extreme Grade chaff as well the Bottom tier Elites are even better train or far more experience on top of that. Best used in either mass slaughter of Chaff or to hold small areas that need quality over quantity. Can fight other Elites or even reliably kill Crap Heroes if they must.

Mid tier Elites are the anti-elite and hunter units. They are what you send when they enemy's Elites take the field. Can be used on chaff if nothing else is left but should guard your own Heroes from Hero killer units if they can.

Elite Elites are the cream of the crop. The best units you have in any numbers are these. Hold close to your chest an spend them wisely these are a major trump card and any action taken with them will provoke a response. If you lack in Heroes but have a steady source of these anti-hero work is highly recommend.

Super Elite are nigh unique Elites that are almost Heroes in their own right. Anti-hero hunter squads are a excellent use of them. Anti massed Elite work is also recommend.

Hero
  • Crap: Basic Chaos Champion, Space Marine Sargent, low grade Ork Warboss, Gamma Pykers, Our Champions
  • Standard: Chaos Lords, Space Marine Captain, Ork Warlord, Inquisition Lords, Beta Pykers, Our Generals, Tyranid Hive Tyrant
  • Renown: Ork Overlords, Chaos Greater Daemons, Chapter Masters, Us, Alpha Psykers, Paragons in general
  • Linchpins: Greatest of Chaos Greater Damons, Primarchs, Areatha, The Ork Beast, Transcendants in general
A Hero is someone special. They can not be made, only born. However not all Heroes are born equal. Crap Heroes are those who have just embarked on the journey to greatness. Chaos Champions, Space Marine Sargent's, Ork Warbosses all are just hitting being a major figure and not just some elite scrub. However they are just one person and not that much better that a regular Elite. Probable the closest thing to a mass produced Hero you can get. They work best leading small units of Elites. Can kill other Heroes but try to stick to fellow Crap rate Heroes.

Standard Heroes are those that survived being a Crap rate newbie. These Heroes have proven their metal and are able to cut down Elites like they were mere Chaff. Most Elites should be lead by several of these and are key units. The loss of any are a major but not crippling blow. Is recommend that they fight Crap tier Heroes if possible but can fight other Standard Heroes at a risk.

Renown Heroes are THE best in the local area. They are the Heroes of Heroes. Legends one and all. If more than one are on the same side of the field it's a rare day indeed. These are to actively hunt down and slaughter enemy Heroes if given the chance. However to loss any can cripple an army for years. They are the leaders of the army's.

Linchpins are not Heroes so much as forces of nature in mortal form. Each is a critical objective in and of themselves and to loss one is a crippling blow that can never be recovered from. Protect at all cost but unleash to reap destruction.
 
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[X] Plan No Favor
-[X] Ask for Extraordinary (10 pts worth) of Fleet Support in dealing with the WAAAGH
-[X] Do not ask for Guard support dealing with the Waaagh
-[X] Do not ask for Astartes support dealing with the Waaagh

We are much stronger on the ground of Svartalfheim than we were on Mar Sara, it's hulk grinding capacity that we need.

Does the Trust have a bombardment cannon heavy ship type?
 
@runes Nice work, but I have a few suggestions.

I'm pretty sure you misplaced our Helguard and Helltroopers as chaff, while in fact they're elites.

I'm also pretty sure super elites are space marines and up.

Might misremember what durin said in the last war though.
 
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Does the Trust have a bombardment cannon heavy ship type?
No, but we do have a massive artillery fleet and the Vraja capital ship.

We need battlebarges of our own first I think.

@runes Nice work, but I have a few suggestions.

I'm pretty sure you miss placed our Helguard and Helltroopers as chaff, while in fact they're elites.

I'm also pretty sure super elites are space marines and up.

Might misremember what durin said in the last war though.
The omake includes notes that extreme grade chaff should be elite units, but there are so many that they are filed under chaff.

Super elites are not marines up, life guard and the like count as super elites, marines are just among the best super elites.
 
@runes Nice work, but I have a few suggestions.

I'm pretty sure you miss placed our Helguard and Helltroopers as chaff, while in fact they're elites.

I'm also pretty sure super elites are space marines and up.

Might misremember what durin said in the last war though.
I pm'ed Durin this and this was his revisions. Extreme chaff was low elite but moved to chaff do to numbers. The Bottom tier Elites are special Extreme chaff with higher restrictions. Space Marines were moved down to elite Elites while top tier Marines moved to Super Elite and Heroes.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Nurgle on May 2, 2018 at 11:10 AM, finished with 110 posts and 27 votes.

  • [X] Plan No Favor
    -[X] Ask for Extraordinary (10 pts worth) of Fleet Support in dealing with the WAAAGH
    -[X] Do not ask for Guard support dealing with the Waaagh
    -[X] Do not ask for Astartes support dealing with the Waaagh
    [X] Plan Owe a Favor
    -[X] Ask for massive Fleet support dealing with the Waaagh - Have forty Astartes capital ships and a hundred and fifty cruisers and associated escorts deployed. This will provide your fleet with a decent number of powerful ships, many equipped with bombardment cannons which are highly effective against Hulks . 8
    -[X] Ask for major Guard support dealing with the Waaagh - Have four billion Guard deployed to Svartalfheim, this will provide you with a massive number of skilled soldiers, though not as well equipped as your own armies. 4
    -[X] Ask for major Astartes support dealing with the Waaagh - This will provide you with a chapter equivalent force of Blood Dragon's, greatly increasing the number of heroes and elites you have on hand. 8
    [X] Plan Minimal Assistance
    -[X] Ask for massive Fleet support dealing with the Waaagh - Have forty Astartes capital ships and a hundred and fifty cruisers and associated escorts deployed. This will provide your fleet with a decent number of powerful ships, many equipped with bombardment cannons which are highly effective against Hulks . 8
    -[X] Ask for some Guard support dealing with the Waaagh - Have two billion Guard deployed to Svartalfheim, this will provide you with a significant number of skilled soldiers, though not as well equipped as your own armies. 2
    -[X] Do not ask for Astartes support dealing with the Waaagh - Rely instead in your own elites
    [X] Ask for massive Fleet support dealing with the Waaagh - Have forty Astartes capital ships and a hundred and fifty cruisers and associated escorts deployed. This will provide your fleet with a decent number of powerful ships, many equipped with bombardment cannons which are highly effective against Hulks . 8
    [X] Ask for some Fleet support dealing with the Waaagh - Have a eight Astartes capital ships and fortycruisers and associated escorts deployed. This will provide you with an edge, but no more. 2
    [X] Do not ask for Fleet support dealing with the Waaagh - Rely instead in your own fleet
    [X] Do not ask for Guard support dealing with the Waaagh - Rely instead in your own armies
    [X] Do not ask for Astartes support dealing with the Waaagh - Rely instead in your own elites
 
I don't think we should go all out just yet. If there's any one thing we can skimp on its this one.

We will in all likelihood need the Blood dragons far more in the future, and I suspect they may well see better use of their troops than we do.
 
I think we should because we need to start getting closer relations with them. Also they still have not completely used the tech we have them because they lack the industry to upgrade. While they have a economy the size of the Trust Remember that the colonies are not contributing yet. So they needed tens times the amount of worlds and a large merchant fleet to have thr wake economy.
 
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I think we should because we need to start getting closer relations with them. Also they still have not completely used the tech we have them because they lack the industry to upgrade. While they have a economy the size of the Trust Remember that the colonies are not contributing yet. So they needed tens times the amount of worlds and a large merchant fleet to have thr wake economy.

We can get closer relations without having to rely on short term debt deals.

Like, for instance, taking a diplomatic action or such.
 
Don't take a loan from the bank because you want to explicitly have a loan.

Just give the cash to the bank.
 
Don't take a loan from the bank because you want to explicitly have a loan.

Just give the cash to the bank.
But in this case that loan will help us in the short term by getting rid of a big car repair bill without using up all of our available cash. Sure we'll be left with a bill later, but by then we'll be better able to pay it.
Getting BD aid here is like spending a credit card.
 
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Ignoring the eye gouging lack of proper grammar and punctuation, you're saying we shouldn't help the Blood Dragons because it doesn't help our survival? Because having a positive and well-established relationship with a friendly domain that is several times more powerful than use would in no way help our survival? That is just flat out completely fucking idiotic.

As for us being the Emperor's special little snowflakes, I can almost guarantee you that there were multiple holdouts who got a similar, if not near identical message that we did. The Trust being the only group to be told to hold out until His return isn't just unlikely, it's outright fucking laughable.

while it is a valid point that we are NOT special, still does not change the fact that we shouldn't help someone do something if it doesn't help the war-effort somehow, which was my original point and if you read the original post that I was defending, you will see the context that your missing...
 
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you cant prepare for a tier 4 waagh, it would hit you with tens of trillions of +800 Orks. the Imperial Trust and every polity within 1k LY would be roadkill before that. Abbadons Black Imperium would have a desperate fight if one comes their way
tier 3 would merely be trillions of +400 Orks, which is still an overwhelmingly powerful force but is one that you may be able to match within the next few centuries

.....well thats terrifying.....
 
We can get closer relations without having to rely on short term debt deals.

Like, for instance, taking a diplomatic action or such.
Thats pretty vuage, we are an isolationist polity that keeps immense ammounts of tech to itself and doesnt share unless the Dragons pull out their top self unique tech and we still limit what we share. If we want to improve relations with the nest we need to be proactive, what do they care if we send friendly diplomats? They are not fellow members of the trust who work together as equals.
 
[X] Plan No Favor

Partly because I don't want to take more of the Blood Dragons military than we need, as they do have there own problems to deal with. And partly because if we are going to start moving towards some kind of unification with Blood Dragons I don't want to push the balance of power too far in the Blood Dragons favor.
 
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