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Magical Girl Quest - The Fire That Burns

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Naron said:
What are you talking about?
What kind of thing would you have wanted to vote about in the latest Update?
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I believe the point he is making is that when Cerys asked Karen to guarantee Una's safety (and note that the vote itself did not specify anything unbreakable, and was hard-locked in by the QM), Cerys immediately accepted what was offered without reservation, question, or player agency, and the scene then continued onwards without ever allowing them a point in which they could have interjected and gone "Hey wait, you just lied!" had they wanted to do so.

While quickly sweeping it under the rug is undoubtedly good tactics for Karen, the nature of the quest means that denying the players an opportunity to take action in regards to it if they notice is...mechanically flawed. While there was technically nothing stopping the players from noticing, the information they needed was some two months and almost five thousand posts old at that point, Cerys apparently did not remember critical information relating to a topic she raised or was otherwise unable to use that knowledge in-character, and the only vote for that update was to answer a specific and unrelated question, there was no clear write-in option for anyone who wanted to ask for more detail or clarify things.

Combined, all of that places the issue into a very gray area, perhaps more towards the black than otherwise. If it was something the players were supposed to be able to notice and respond to, it...wasn't handled well. And if it wasn't supposed to be something they could catch, then it smacks more than a bit of putting them on rails.
 
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[X] Ask Morgan what she's thinking about, and why Karen would trick us.


This feels wrong. Cerys flying off the handle due to finding out about something she should have already knew? the suddenly bolded text that fit exactly what they where trying to convince us of? this entire exchange just felt... stiff, unnatural. personally I suspect some sort of subtle mental nudging. Or a drama ball, but eh.
 
[x] Don't

Makes sense, at least in a therotical point of view. However, making enemies on both sides isn't what we need.

Besides, even if she is manuplitive, it doesn't mean that she tricked us. I expect she gave us a false vow as a security messure if we ever went rouge. We betray the clocktower, she betrays the vow. It's that simple. I don't expect it to be sinister in nature, just a security messure.

The other reasons I can think of is to keep us as an asset, but that would speed up some unnesseary tension.
 
I will throw in my 10 cent of understanding in the discussion regarding that vow.

It can be even a misunderstanding. Maybe in Karen´s eyes this is something she would never break. Do we know that? Maybe Cerys had a different understanding of it and if someone says unbreakable vows dont exist, but another one behaves like it exist (or didnt denied the existence of it). Naturally there will be misunderstandings if you cant remember it perfectly. Remembering it perfectly is nearly impossible. Or can you truly say you do?

With the "problems" which occured, such a reaction is understandable.
 
No, I am talking about the most recent post. I don't think Karen has done bad by us.

I think planning for Ceres to forget because we haven't t talked about it is dumb. I noticed what Karen did.. But remembering how young Ceres is, I can't really say Ceres wouldn't fly into a rage.

And actually that might be what we need. We should see if we can force a negotiated peace, or terms of war that lead to less loss of material.

I mean accidentally putting Una in a little danger, is probably not worth the costs of this war, because we want them to keep Una safe in the next war. Though we should make it clear that the good men killed is what happens if Una is put in danger.

Bah I am probably covering too many subjects in this post.
 
Nolrai said:
I think planning for Ceres to forget because we haven't t talked about it is dumb.
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Point is that this was part of it. No one brought it up, no one had any vote in this direction and, most of all, Cerys had no in-story incentive to keep that detail in mind.

The first two would have been mitigated by anything within the story making Cerys think about the matter, but that did not happen, either. Basically, it was forgotten IC as much as OoC, with either of these two only partly being dependent on the other in any direction.

I have failed to mention this part so far, though; was too focussed on the matter at hand and had too little time to think things through properly.


That aside, I have no problem following your post... will refrain from saying anything about your other points, though.
 
[X] Ask Morgan what she's thinking about, and why Karen would trick us.
 
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INTERVENTION
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    • And you were so focused on where you were going that when she grabs you by the arm and yank harder than her lithe body possibly could, you stumble right into the empty room she's dragging you into; covering your mouth with her other hand as she crashes into the wall. You try to say something, but she shakes her head, tightening her grip a little. "No, just stop for a second, calm down." You try your best to escape her grip without forcing her off of you, but her hold is solid. "Cerys, tell me what's wrong!"

    You strop struggling, staring at her with dark eyes until she moves the hand off of your mouth, setting it on your shoulder as she keeps you from moving. "Karen lied to me. She used me."

    The words have a profound effect, her grip lightening as she look at you in confusion, furrowed brows above her eyes as she looks through you. "What? Cerys please, I'm sure this is a misunderstanding. Tell me what's wrong."

    "I asked her to make an unbreakable promise and she gave me a vow." The last word is ground out, your anger giving it a harsh edge.

    Morgan doesn't stop looking confused, nor does she lighten her grip any more. "But I told you that a vow isn't unbreakable... There are no unbreakable promises."

    Your cheeks heat up a little as embarrassment overcomes anger for a moment. "I... I forgot alright? I got caught up in the moment and I believed her." And the fact that you had fallen for the trick like a attention starved puppy just made the shame worse.

    She loosens her grip a little more when she sees you making no attempts to move away, her frown deepening until her eyebrows are almost touching, a long lock of hair falling over her eye as she looks up at you. "Why would she..." She trails off of her own statement, moving her jaw to silent words as she tries to make sense of your failure.

    Suddenly, she shakes her head, gripping your shoulders a little tighter as she nods. "I'm sure she had a good reason, even though they can be retracted you don't just make vows willy nilly. We should..." She pauses off, staring at the very slight trails of steam rising off of you. "I should go and get her while you wait in a meeting room, you're so angry you'll do something you regret later if you talk to her like this." You grunt in a very unladylike way and she evidently takes the noise as an agreement.

    She nods, letting go as she smoothly steps past you, unlocking the door with a quick flick of her wrist. When did she lock it? "There should be an empty meeting room down the hall and to the left, second door. Please, go and wait there and take a minute to calm down. I'll bring Karen straight away ok?" You nod this time and she immediately sets off running. You let her turn the corner before you emerge from the room yourself, following her directions into a small-ish, but very comfortable looking room.

    There is a circular central table, soft plush chairs settled around it. You drop down into the one second from the door, resting your hand on your forehead as your hair follows gravity, your very own little makeshift curtain of white.

    You breath slowly, letting your racing heart slow from it's breakneck speed and back to something more normal. Taking the opportunity to think with a clearer head, you reach out towards your sister with your thermal sense, finding her sitting on the sofa with Cuifen, safe and sound. You let out a long breath as your frantic worry fades away to something more manageable, the hot feeling in your chest receding enough that you can think about Karen in more than just 'How can I brutally murder her the fastest'. Not that your new thoughts were optimistic, just a different sort of anger, a cold feeling settling in your chest as you have the chance to sit and think.

    She lied to me, maybe she had a good reason, but she lied to me. About my sister, about her safety. You try your best to keep calm as the flame in your heart roars, clenching your hand on your knee hard enough to bruise. Alright Morgan, she can get her fucking chance. The door opens, Morgan peeking through at you, looking you over before waving her follower through. Karen steps into the room, not exactly eyeing you with trepidation, but there was a healthy sense of caution there.

    You better have a good fucking explanation bitch, otherwise I'll kill you.

    She opens her mouth to speak, pausing as you sit up straight, taking a deep breath as thoughts race across your mind.

    [] Write in what to say

    [] Stay Silent
     
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    • Thank god for Morgan being the sane voice of reason here. I knew we kept her around for more then just her looks.
     
    So here's an idea.

    We make her take a vow to answer our questions truthfully and completely. Then we ask the following questions:

    Can magic be used to influence the emotions and the mind of others?

    Do you use any such magic?

    Have you used mind-altering magic on me?

    The benefits- it doesn't make her tell the truth, but we will know immediately if she breaks the vow by lying. We will be asking these questions clearly, yes or no, with no room for ambiguity. This will tell us, better than anything, whether our paranoia is well-founded or not.
     
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    redfoxdelta said:
    So here's an idea.

    We make her take a vow to answer our questions truthfully and completely. Then we ask the following questions:

    Can magic be used to influence the emotions and the mind of others?

    Do you use any such magic?

    Have you used mind-altering magic on me?

    The benefits- it doesn't make her tell the truth, but we will know immediately if she breaks the vow by lying. We will be asking these questions clearly, yes or no, with no room for ambiguity. This will tell us, better than anything, whether our paranoia is well-founded or not.
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    Maybe, but we will need much better wording. If anything though we need to know whether or not she made the vow to protect our sister with the intent to deceive us.
    In fact, instead of asking if she has deceived us, we need to know how often and in what ways.

    [X] What else have you been lying to me about?
     
    [X] Stay Silent
    -[X] And actually listen to Karen's explanation
    Karen could do with a reminder that Cerys did not grow up with magic.
     
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    LightLan said:
    Karen could do with a reminder that Cerys did not grow up with magic.
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    That's the whole point, I refuse to believe Karen did this out of ignorance, she knew Cerys wouldn't know the difference and fall for this. It was a quick and easy way to gain some trust as long as Cerys didn't know any better.

    [X] What else have you been lying to me about?

    You people are being amazingly lenient to someone who completely fooled us, and had zero intention of telling us this anytime soon. I know you like her but this is getting silly with some of these excuses.
     
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    [X] Stay Silent
    -[X] And actually listen to Karen's explanation
     
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    redfoxdelta said:
    We will know if they break it, though. It serves our purposes just a well as actually compelling her to tell us the truth, if we want honest answers.
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    Assuming at this point even that someone of Karen's caliber can't just go outside of what were thought as rules and break a vow without the other party knowing is sketchy at best.
     
    Some valuable information, from the first time we asked Morgan:

    Rukia said:
    "Yes, there are magical vows, no they are not binding. If you have a vow about something, it's basically an early warning system. If you say you have the vow, it flares so people know you are telling the truth and if you break your vow then both you and any others on the other end of the vow instantly know that you've broken your word."
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    You people might be taking this a bit out of proportion. Yes, Karen can break the vow. If she made the vow without the sincere intention of keeping it, however, it wouldn't have ever worked. Sure, you can change your mind later. As it is, from Karen's perspective, she gave us her word, backed by a magical lie detector, that she planned to do her best to keep Una safe. It's not like the vow is suddenly worthless just because Karen's not under magical compulsion to follow it to the end of days.

    We need to chill out a bit here, and "what else have you been lying to me about" feels way too confrontational. And this is coming from somebody who distrusts Karen's morality and overall intentions to a large degree. Chill with the paranoia.
     
    I think the paranoia is entirely warranted, really.

    Of course, people also voted to calm down and listen to Karen's chief minion slash magical girl wrangler, so if there actually is a reason to be paranoid they've just shot themselves in both feet.
     
    I think the paranoia is kinda stupid. We are literally one of Karen's most powerful assets, and she knew that we had that potential from the moment she saw us. There's literally no reason she would do something stupid like leaving a blatantly obvious out for herself.

    Like... I do expect she has a backup plan or five, but I expect that they wouldn't come to light like this because this is too obvious to be anything but an accidental miscommunication. (Edit: or a hamfisted deliberate sabotage attempt)

    Plus, who told us how Vows work? Morgan. Who does Morgan report to? Karen. Karen probably believed we knew from the start how the Vow would work as Morgan probably briefed her on everything we talked about before we ever spoke to her.

    [X] Stay Silent
    -[X] And actually listen to Karen's explanation

    Is my vote for now, may edit into some talking after I have had a chance to sleep.
     
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