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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Andres110 said:
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Still don't think that's a pro we can just ask.

Andres110 said:
3. Based on their strength stated by Durin and effectiveness shown in the omake, I don't think they'll die so easily that there'll be a substantial effect to future anti-telepathy efforts. So long as we're not stupid or careless with them, we don't have to worry about diplomatic incident. Sirens killing daemons are also highly unlikely to die, given what we've seen of them and what we've been told about them.
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Again the omake should not be taken as indicative of the general capabilities of the average siren, that was their high queen their strongest most skilled Siren with the largest most powerful Court, the most experience and the greatest ability, the ones we have are not nearly her equal thus their performance should not be taken as indicative.

Andres110 said:
1. The first criticism solved is how we'd be more vulnerable telepathically. Greater Daemons and Heralds of the Abomination have very strong mind control capabilities. Removing them from the board should have a significant effect.
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Thankfully there is nothing above Seraphim currently on the board, well there's the two remaining 5th circles, but I believe they're currently buffing the sorcerors mind control attempts so we can't target them.

Andres110 said:
"our standard assets have wiped out the majority of their daemons for trivial losses."
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Depends what you class as standard, but the way I understand is that Helguard (the Black Irons do get bonuses against demons and as the Black Irons, but they're not actually that big, their main thing is being unbreakable) equipped with banishment runes and psyker support can make mincemeat of most large bands of demons, including low level greater demons like 5th circles.

If I had to add a modification I'd add make the military assistance a task group of black irons (cause they've got banishment runes) and a group of battle psykers to help the sirens deal with the fodder and keep the normies off them.
 
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@Durin
1. Curiosity question, do our auxiliaries have any comments on how things have been going?
2. Are the Sirens enthusiastic to nom some demons?
3. Are there any side effects that they know of from doing so?
 
[X] Plan Sirens vs Daemons

Fine, I will stop sulking in the corner and vote for a plan that might win, I dont like even slightly draining our reserve right now but I'm clearly by myself in that thought.
 
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EDIT: This is getting contentious. A war-turn vote that's actually tied! This hasn't happened since the War for Midgard IIRC.
EDIT2: The turnout's pretty high too.
Adhoc vote count started by HanEmpire on Jan 22, 2018 at 5:37 PM, finished with 210 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] Plan Sirens vs Daemons
    -[X] Rely on Regulars- This force should be able to easily handle the enemy stormtroopers and slow down Astartes and Sisters as well as inflict some damage to them. This will make a slight impact on your reserves.
    -[X] Deploy half your elites to the field and keep half in reserve. -This will leave you with a significant reserve force of elites while reinforcing your main combat zones.
    -[X] Have the defences on the inner side of the districts stronger-By deploying a greater number of your elites to the inner walls of the districts you should be able to slow the Chaos Space Marines and Sisters of Battle significantly.
    -[X] Psykers
    --[X] Scry and Fry (Psyker Choirs)
    ---[X] Ridcully, Xavier, 1st Pyromancy Choir (1/2 Turn), 1st Divination Choir + 2nd Pyromancy Choir (1/2 Turn)
    --[X] Support Troops/Fortifications
    ---[X] Both Biomancer Choirs (1/2 Turn), 1st Telekinetic Choir (3/4 Turn), Troll Geomancers
    --[X] Dispel/Countertelepathy
    ---[X] Lulana, 1st Daemonology Choir (1/2 Turn), Tamia, Both Telepathy Choirs (1/2 Turn)
    --[X] Anti-Daemon
    ---[X] Sirens (focus on Seraphim and up)
    -[X] Other
    --[X] Support the Sirens with military. Keep their unfavoured enemies off them so they only have to fight daemons.
    --[X] Lure Seraphim and up into a trap where the Sirens can consume them.
    --[X] Continue EW on enemy.
    --[X] Leave the Black Crystal Necklace with Tamia.
    --[X] Lend Black Crystal Sword to Jacob
    --[X] Eliminate Sorceror Lords and Chaos Lords joining the pushes.
    ---[X] Primaris Executioner Forces, Psyker Regiments, Psyker Squads, Black Irons, Psyker Hunters, Witch Hunters, Last Hunters, Jane, Aria, Jacob with 2nd Daemonology Choir and 2nd Telekinetic Choir support.
    --[X] Ambush small groups of Astartes at a time, whittling away their numbers.
    ---[X] Trolls, Phase Tigers, Veteran Infiltration Psyker Regiments with 2nd Diviner Choir support (3/4 Turn).
    --[X] Slowly give away as appropriate to prevent Abomination from becoming too desperate, if we succeed excessively.
    [X] Plan Continuation War
    -[X] Rely on Regulars- This force should be able to easily handle the enemy stormtroopers and slow down Astartes and Sisters as well as inflict some damage to them. This will make a slight impact on your reserves.
    -[X] Deploy half your elites to the field and keep half in reserve. -This will leave you with a significant reserve force of elites while reinforcing your main combat zones.
    -[X] Have the defences on the inner side of the districts stronger-By deploying a greater number of your elites to the inner walls of the districts you should be able to slow the Chaos Space Marines and Sisters of Battle significantly.
    -[X] Psykers
    --[X] Scry and Fry (Psyker Choirs)
    ---[X] Ridcully, Xavier, 1st Pyromancy Choir (1/2 Turn), 1st Divination Choir + 2nd Pyromancy Choir (1/2 Turn)
    --[X] Support Troops/Fortifications
    ---[X] Both Biomancer Choirs (1/2 Turn), 1st Telekinetic Choir (3/4 Turn), Troll Geomancers (3/4 Turn)
    --[X] Dispel/Countertelepathy
    ---[X] Lulana, 1st Daemonology Choir (1/2 Turn), Tamia, Both Telepathy Choirs (1/2 Turn), Sirens (3/4 Turns)
    -[X] Other
    --[X] Continue EW on enemy.
    --[X] Leave the Black Crystal Necklace with Tamia.
    --[X] Lend Black Crystal Sword to Jacob
    --[X] Eliminate Sorceror Lords and Chaos Lords joining the pushes.
    ---[X] Primaris Executioner Forces, Psyker Regiments, Psyker Squads, Black Irons, Psyker Hunters, Witch Hunters, Last Hunters, Jane, Aria, Jacob with 2nd Daemonology Choir and 2nd Telekinetic Choir support.
    --[X] Ambush small groups of Astartes at a time, whittling away their numbers.
    ---[X] Trolls, Phase Tigers, Veteran Infiltration Psyker Regiments with 2nd Diviner Choir support (3/4 Turn).
    --[X] Slowly give away as appropriate to prevent Abomination from becoming too desperate, if we succeed excessively.
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I suppose I'll provide a tiebreaker.
[X] Plan Continuation War
We are still on defensive, trying to lure them at the cost of our own losses. It's pretty much the same problem as rad or chem weapons.
I think it would be better to wait with this sort of moves until we move on the offensive.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
If I had to add a modification I'd add make the military assistance a task group of black irons (cause they've got banishment runes) and a group of battle psykers to help the sirens deal with the fodder and keep the normies off them.
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N Steps Ahead means that we don't need to - and in fact shouldn't - specify what military assets will be used for whatever purposes. Battle psykers and black irons count as military assets so if they're the optimal troops to use in this case, they will be used.

Doomed Wombat said:
mmm

@Andres110 I do think half the reserves is a bit much.

A quarter might be better.
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Ask Shard to change it. I want my plan to be observably better rather than alternate to his plan.
 
Andres110 said:
N Steps Ahead means that we don't need to - and in fact shouldn't - specify what military assets will be used for whatever purposes. Battle psykers and black irons count as military assets so if they're the optimal troops to use in this case, they will be used.
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Fair enough.

Andres110 said:
Ask Shard to change it. I want my plan to be observably better rather than alternate to his plan.
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Again think on what we're trying to do, we don't want to blunt them we want to keep them in the illusion that they're actually winning even if they're not.

Deploying a large number of our elites kinda harms that impression since if neither of their 3 main things make progress visible progress (the push towards Lin, the push towards the Walls and after that the Titan assault) then they go first.

Cause they a bunch of sissies :p
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Again think on what we're trying to do, we don't want to blunt them we want to keep them in the illusion that they're actually winning even if they're not.

Deploying a large number of our elites kinda harms that impression since if neither of their 3 main things make progress visible progress (the push towards Lin, the push towards the Walls and after that the Titan assault) then they go first.

Cause they a bunch of sissies :p
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Bring up that argument to Shard. Unless you're willing to vote for my plan if I make that change, I'll wait until Shard does first.
 
Andres110 said:
Bring up that argument to Shard. Unless you're willing to vote for my plan if I make that change, I'll wait until Shard does first.
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Frankly with that attitude I wouldn't be willing to vote for your plan even if you changed it, I'm not suggesting this to him because he already has what I want, you on the other hand I am trying to give a compromise that might swing my vote as well as make your plan better for our goals.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Frankly with that attitude I wouldn't be willing to vote for your plan even if you changed it, I'm not suggesting this to him because he already has what I want, you on the other hand I am trying to give a compromise that might swing my vote as well as make your plan better for our goals.
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I was going for a matter-of-fact tone, not an obstinate tone. Let me try again so I don't sound so abrasive.

I can't change my vote to what you want me to change it to. For all I know, doing so could cause the people who are already voting for my plan to switch to Shard's plan. If I change it and you end up not voting for it, that could well be the thing that makes my plan lose, so I can't risk it. The only safe thing for me to do is wait to see if Shard changes his vote.
 
[X] Plan Continuation War

I am immensely skeptical of using sirens to hunt demons. they don't use the kiss as a combat move, they use the kiss to execute a helpless opponent. I doubt the rank and file will be able to regularly do that to angyls. I also feel it's rather important we keep lots of effort courting mindcontrol, that's very much the abominations area of focus and it can be devastating if not sufficiently countered.
 
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HanEmpire said:
Didn't @Durin tell us that the Sirens were specifically created to hard-counter daemons?
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If he did I didn't hear it. But I doubt it, they don't really seem built for it. Mind control and soul eating to me at least seems more like they where built to counter cultists. Something meant to hard counter demons would probably have a lot of banishment powers, or be a high end combatant with lots of demon killing attacks.

Enthralling and eating weak willed souls is a good hard counter to cultists, who almost by definition have weak wills. Demons not so much.
 
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Andres110 said:
I can't change my vote to what you want me to change it to. For all I know, doing so could cause the people who are already voting for my plan to switch to Shard's plan. If I change it and you end up not voting for it, that could well be the thing that makes my plan lose, so I can't risk it. The only safe thing for me to do is wait to see if Shard changes his vote.
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That's better, in that case I see your point, but I also wonder how many people are voting for that and how many people are voting to see demons and sirens fight.

I'd imagine its much more one than the other.

random_npc said:
If he did I didn't hear it. But I doubt it, they don't really seem built for it. Mind control and soul eating to me at least seems more like they where built to counter cultists. Something meant to hard counter demons would probably have a lot of banishment powers, or be a high end combatant with lots of demon killing attacks.
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He did say it one time, but I don't think it means they're the absolute greatest at killing demons ever.
 
Here it is.
Shard said:
6. Do the Sirens have anything to say on their Daemon-killing/eating abilities?
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Durin said:
6. they are skilled at it
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They're skilled at killing and eating daemons, and might cause terror in them.
Andres110 said:
@Durin, Sirens can consume souls, their specialty is offensive telepathy, and eating souls feeds their psychic abilities. If we send them to attack the daemons, how likely is it that the daemons will roll a morale check?
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Durin said:
unknown but possible
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random_npc said:
If he did I didn't hear it. But I doubt it, they don't really seem built for it. Mind control and soul eating to me at least seems more like they where built to counter cultists. Something meant to hard counter demons would probably have a lot of banishment powers, or be a high end combatant with lots of demon killing attacks.
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IIRC Durin described them as designed to kill daemons
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Again the omake should not be taken as indicative of the general capabilities of the average siren, that was their high queen their strongest most skilled Siren with the largest most powerful Court, the most experience and the greatest ability, the ones we have are not nearly her equal thus their performance should not be taken as indicative.
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Source?

Doomed Wombat said:
That's better, in that case I see your point, but I also wonder how many people are voting for that and how many people are voting to see demons and sirens fight.

I'd imagine its much more one than the other.
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I'm willing to take the risk if I get some security in advance in the form of your vote.
 
Andres110 said:
This is the exact opposite of true, right down to the choice of words.
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that's still weird because they don't have a particularly strong anti-demon power set. The soul eating kiss is coup de grace, albeit a nasty one, and their powers are focused around telepathy. I'm fairly sure that demons are resistant to mind control, epically the big ones. You'd think a dedicated demon hunter would have powers that work better against demons than mortals rather than the reverse.

either way, I'd still rather have them countering mind control. It may not play to their purpose, but it really does seem to play to their strengths, and we have other units that can kill demons fairly well.
 
Andres110 said:
Source?
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For what, that Queen Azshara is the head queen, that she's an alpha level and that as a result she's more powerful than her normal subordinates who are here?

Dunno common sense and various quotes I don't have the brain power left to go find as its past 12:00 here. Cause I'm a whimp.

Andres110 said:
I'm willing to take the risk if I get some security in advance in the form of your vote.
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How does my vote count as security?

random_npc said:
that's still weird because they don't have a particularly strong anti-demon power set.
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They can eat them alive and thus inflict true death its a potent anti demon ability, but yes I agree calling them perfect demon hunters may simply be hyperbole on Rotbarts part.

That they are supremely effective however should be in no doubt.
 
Andres110 said:
Source?
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Queen Azshara is a Low Alpha and thus orders of magnitude stronger than other Sirens.
Here's the section on Sirens from Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis tab:
[*]Siren: Minor, Siren Lady: Delta, Siren Queen:Beta ,Queen Azshara: Low Alpha
[*]Preliminary Investigation: Magos Biologis Saren spent the year investigating the Sirens of the Azure Islands. His examination shows that despite having a natural psychic talent the sirens are not Chaos tainted. He also determined that the two types of Sirens that he examined, the ordinary Siren and the Siren Ladies, are distinctly different breeds but can both be birthed from ordinary Sirens. As far as Magos Biologis Saren can tell Sirens do not age and seem to breed asexually. Siren intelligence seems to be dependent on the breed with ordinary Sirens showing animal levels of intelligence while Siren ladies seem to be almost as intelligent as humans. Lesser Sirens seem to be compelled to obey the greater Sirens and there seems to be a telepathic link between all Sirens.
[*]Detailed Survey: Magos Biologis Saren has completed a more detailed examination of the Sirens and has given you an overview of his results. He informs you that Sirens normally eat fish and other meat but occasionally need to feed their psychic powers by consuming a soul. From what he can gather the more powerful a Siren's psychic powers are the more souls they need to eat but also the less often they need to eat souls. Human souls, being far more powerful then the normal animal souls that they consume are far more potent and less are needed to sate their hunger.
[*]Magos Biologis Saren has discovered that Siren's gather in groups of between fifty and three hundred, called courts, around each Siren Lady. These courts each have their territory and the members are spread throughout this territory, which may overlap with the territory of several other courts. The Sirens within a court are linked with a telepathic bond which allows them to communicate and only Siren Ladies can form connections with other Sirens. There are some Sirens who for some reason are not a member of any court and these Sirens seem to be constantly trying to drain souls and are responsible for many of the attacks on humans.
[*]In depth Examination: Near the end of the year Magos Biologis Saren personally briefs you on what he has discovered. He has totally failed to gain any new information about the Sirens feeding and how it works or even what happens to the souls of those that they eat, though the souls being consumed seems likely. However has has discovered much about the Sirens biology including that they were almost certainly engineered out as expected but the base was Eldar rather then human. This news is shocking as it almost certainly disproves his theory that they were engineered by the humans of the Dark Age of Technology.
[*]In depth Examination Repeat: Magos Biologis Saren finished his investigation into Sirens and has made several important discoveries. The first discovery that he has made is that Sirens seem to have knowledge of the Eldar language hard-wired into their DNA, showing a level of understanding to several recordings of the Eldar language that he has played for his captives. The second major discovery is that the Sirens seem to consume and digest souls, totally removing all traces of what the soul used to be.
 
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