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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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inverted_helix said:
Casualty rates amongst our PDF against their elites have been pretty terrible and without inflicting all that much damage (aren't brigades 100,000 soldiers? while the sisters of battle are only 125?). I think we're actually eating the 100:1 kill ratios for once. I suppose in the sense of making them feel successful that's good. Still brutal to let the PDF take on enemy elites instead of deploying stronger units.

It's odd to me that there are two Chaos Warband entries in each casualty list that appear to be the same unit.

Also now that they've crashlanded 9 battleships and 3 battle barges, couldn't we seize the orbitals with our current fleet? Why were we waiting for fleet reinforcements to do so?
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The greater the advantage our fleet has, the fewer losses in absolute terms we take seizing the orbitals (as we have more firepower to kill them faster, more ships to spread the damage taken around on, and greater tactical flexibility which further improves our ratios). Plus, I'd love to sucker them in to waiting another turn, and losing the orbitals will probably accelerate their summoning plans.
 
HanEmpire said:
@Durin will the Chaos General start the Summoning if Admiral Sarnow destroys the Chaos Fleet?
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mabye, it depends on how much progress he has made in Dis and what forces remain
random_npc said:
that's actually a good point. They are summoning the first circle so cheaply (the fucking scale of this setting, I swear) because they already hashed out a deal and the boundary is thin. That means he's probably "close" in the warp, which means that he's not going to have the element of surprise when he shows up. Well that does mean it's less likely to become a full incursion. Though I do wonder if it would be possible to bushwack him in the warp? mess with the summoning from both ends as it were.
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that is actually one of the reasons that Avernus has not deployed much, currently there are serious forces moving to reinforce the poles
attacking him in the warp is a fools game, it is fighting him both with his full power, which deamons pretty much never have in reality, and in his own ground while you are fighting in a very hostile environment
Shard said:
@Durin

I think you missed the 2nd Pyromancers/1st Diviners on Psyker Scry-and-Fry?
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they were combined
Andres110 said:
@Durin, Sirens can consume souls, their specialty is offensive telepathy, and eating souls feeds their psychic abilities. If we send them to attack the daemons, how likely is it that the daemons will roll a morale check?
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unknown but possible

Andres110 said:
@Durin, permakilling the Third Circle made it more difficult to summon daemons. Will it get even more difficult to summon daemons the more of them we permakill?
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yes, though only seraphium plus count
HanEmpire said:
I think dividing our elites with an emphasis on Inner Defence is the way to go here; it gives the impression that we're abandoning the outer city in favour of defending the Saint, non-critically weaken our Wall so that it will draw in the main assault force, and slow down the Marines who are a genuine threat. After enough of the heretics are locked in battle in our streets we can kill the Marines with concentrated force and start pushing the heretics out.

@Durin:
1) can the Chaos forces be sacrificed properly after they've entered Dis in full?
2) is it possible that the Chaos general will push for 2nd Circle Angyls if a 1st Circle Summon looks to be impossible?
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1. yes, though not as easily. on the other hand they will be in a very fortified location so harder to dislodge
2. no, they do not have any pacts with 2nd circle
inverted_helix said:
Casualty rates amongst our PDF against their elites have been pretty terrible and without inflicting all that much damage (aren't brigades 100,000 soldiers? while the sisters of battle are only 125?). I think we're actually eating the 100:1 kill ratios for once. I suppose in the sense of making them feel successful that's good. Still brutal to let the PDF take on enemy elites instead of deploying stronger units.

It's odd to me that there are two Chaos Warband entries in each casualty list that appear to be the same unit.

Also now that they've crashlanded 9 battleships and 3 battle barges, couldn't we seize the orbitals with our current fleet? Why were we waiting for fleet reinforcements to do so?
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one is the humans, one is the astertes
you probably could take the orbitals but at a very high price, while in 3 days you will have a massive number of reinforcements
 
@Durin
Why "Chaos Warband Infantry" are listed twice (with different numbers) in the Imperial Kills list? Are the first entry supposed to be chaos equivalent to serfs and the second the marines themselves?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
And isn't that a strange thought, marines being killed by a PDF.

If you told that to someone in the Imperium they'd think you were either joking, mad or a heretic.

Possibly all three.
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I think that's only damaging them, not even killing one. I mean the unit size isn't given, and there's a broad range of 5-100 space marines in a chaos warband, so this might not even have been a single full soldier. Especially since the fractions were spread over multiple attacks.
 
inverted_helix said:
I think that's only damaging them, not even killing one. I mean the unit size isn't given, and there's a broad range of 5-100 space marines in a chaos warband, so this might not even have been a single full soldier. Especially since the fractions were spread over multiple attacks.
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I'm pretty sure if he lists them as casualties that means someone died or was so badly damaged they are combat ineffective.

So I'm pretty confident they're dead.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
@Durin
1. Is it fair to assume they go 1st circle if the Titans are destroyed with no impact?

And isn't that a strange thought, marines being killed by a PDF.

If you told that to someone in the Imperium they'd think you were either joking, mad or a heretic.

Possibly all three.
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Unless they have made a great deal of progress elsewhere yes
The total marines losses is around 15 so it is not that strange. Losing a square or two on Ann assault against a hives PDF is unusual but no more then that
 
@Durin

Have the transports set off to pick up a third wave yet?
Will killing more sorcerers make the process of summoning the 1st circle slower?
Or give it a chance of failure?
 
inverted_helix said:
Are they going to be getting a defense bonus too from them using our own fortifications against us?
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That depends. Remember, those fortifications are not in any way or form Imperial Standard, so it shouldn't be hard to push their commisars into going "Heretic Technology! You're using HERETIC technology? HERESY!!!" *BANG!* ...against anyone actually using said fortifications properly. There is even a chance that happens without any pushing.
 
noliar said:
@Durin

Have the transports set off to pick up a third wave yet?
Will killing more sorcerers make the process of summoning the 1st circle slower?
Or give it a chance of failure?
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no, they seem to be in a holding pattern over Avernus
if you kill enough yes
if you kill enough yes
inverted_helix said:
Kind of curious about that. Our defense bonus was only 162. I'm guessing that was (330-6)/2. But I'm not quite sure how defense bonuses work with someone inside the fortifications. Are they going to be getting a defense bonus too from them using our own fortifications against us?
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they will not while you are defending but when you start trying to push them out they will. that will be unpleasant to put things lightly
 
Mainly been in a just read the update mode, but was the psykers killed percentage based on their current psykers or the total from the start of the campaign? Also kill all their psykers and sorcerers and no one can do a summoning of the first circle.
 
Brainstorming time!

We would like the transport fleet to pick up a 3rd wave. It's enemy hulls and fire power leaving the system even if not much and it weakens Valinor for later.
What can we do to encourage it?
Kill troops on the ground. Deploy our light forces out of position for harassing them on the way out.
Target transports in their current positions to force a use it or lose it decision.

The more sorcerers we kill, the better our chances of preventing the summoning the 1st circle outright.
The enemy know this and in a use it or lose it situation they'll use it.
They'd much rather win without summoning it. While they think they're winning we can keep grinding away at the sorcerers.
Letting them have success in Dis through the crashed ships causes us real damage and casualties and carries real risk.

A successful void battle to get orbital presence might well get them to start the summoning.
OTOH if we have orbital parity+ we can shoot at the bastard with capital lances.
We can also slag those crashed ships.

So, on the ground we want to string them along carefully in Dis while doing as much scry and fry as we can without panicking them. No single big strike against the sorcerers yet but we want to position ourselves for one later. Maybe keep one or two sorcerer positions basically "safe" even as we infiltrate Last Hunters etc.
We want to keep bombing and shelling the shit out of the forces on the outside.

In the void we want to continue to build our forces.
We want to deploy our harassers such that the transport fleet is better used making a third run than sitting in a holding pattern.

When we have sufficient space forces:
Launch the space battle. Position is more important than destruction - we want the orbitals and it's not like this lot will leave the system.
Pull the trigger on the high intensity anti-sorcerer ops once it's well under way.
Keep giving ground in Dis until they start the summoning anyway, then go on the offensive.

A big void battle and scry and fry will put a heavy strain on our diviners.
 
So, uh, I still don't know what our plans are for when we win the orbitals back. I mean we can probably bait them towards Lin for quite a while but they can probably get enough sacrifices to summon the first circle on the ground, and keep enough of their psykers to do it, and will do it if they think that soon they will be unable to.

Next turn are we going to focus on defeating this capability, or are we going to whittle it down slowly so they don't notice they're losing it till it's lost.

Either option seems risky, anyone got any better ideas.
 
Piren'e Colass said:
So, uh, I still don't know what our plans are for when we win the orbitals back. I mean we can probably bait them towards Lin for quite a while but they can probably get enough sacrifices to summon the first circle on the ground, and keep enough of their psykers to do it, and will do it if they think that soon they will be unable to.

Next turn are we going to focus on defeating this capability, or are we going to whittle it down slowly so they don't notice they're losing it till it's lost.

Either option seems risky, anyone got any better ideas.
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Personally, I don't think we can stop them from summoning the First Circle. My personal opinion is to try to control the circumstances in which they summon it. Ideally, its with as few elites, as few grunts, and with us holding a basically undaunted defense. So bleed them out while they hammer forward, then grab the orbitals and smash them.
 
Some thoughts about what the attributes could provide at Paragon and Transcendent:

General (Applicable for basically anything):

Always rolls twice, takes better for [Action].
Never critfails for [Action]
Enemy never critsuccess for [Action].
Roll 2d100 instead of d100. Add both together to obtain result - 100s are crits, 1s are not critfails unless both are 1s. 200s are greater crits.

Martial:

Troops under command immune to: Morale Checks, Telepathy
Opponents do not apply Paragon Traits.
Full Martial Bonus applied (Instead of halving/quartering etc)
Subordinates use your Martial/Combat Bonus.
Enemies do not apply their Martial Bonii.
Provide benefits of other Paragon traits possessed to subordinates.
% of Casualties Waived
Immune: Divination

Intrigue:

Use Intrigue in place of Combat.
No size penalty for stealth/ambushes. (From Command Battleships to.. Warlord Titans.)
May use Stealth without penalty anywhere. (Imagine Telepathy Invisibility, but permanent, works on blanks and daemons, and no limit on number of people affect)
Immune: Divination
Immune: Telepathy

Administration:

Extra Action Slot(s)
Project Time Halved
All Cost Reduced
All Income Doubled
Various Requirements for Projects Waived
Supply Lines Waived

Learning:

Automatically know enemy forces, aces, weaknesses, and similar stuff.
DC for repairing reduced.
DC for completing STCs reduced.
DC for upgrading reduced.
Can improve anything.
Automatically succeed on Daemon negotiations.
Immune: Various Types of Warp Shenanigans

Diplomacy:

You can literally diplomance an army.
Can persuade-corrupt people.
Permanently change the mindset of people.
Morale Bonus cap increased from 10 to 20.
Immune: Combat. People literally won't attack you.
Immune: Morale Reduction. People love you too much.

Piety:

Sainthood (When the Emps was around anyway.)
All offensive psyker actions done at penalty.
Immune: Perils of the Warp
Immune: Miscasts
Immune: Warp Shenanigans
Immune: Telepathy
Immune: Biomancy
Immune: Pyromancy
Immune: Corruption
Immune: Morale

Combat:

Inflicted damage cannot be healed.
Multiple Combat actions per phase.
*X damage vs [Target]
Instantly kill [Target]
Force Morale Checks even where [Immune].
Immune: Biomancy
Immune: Various

Control:

Aura of the Pariah (Additional: Adjust apparent psychic power in any direction.)
Choir Limit Waived (Grand Choirs are a go now)
Undetectable Casting
Immune: Perils of the Warp
Immune: Miscasts

Power:

Immune: Blanks
Immune: Pariahs
At this point you can reshape reality at your will???
 
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You know, at this point them summoning the first circle would actually be beneficial due to the uncertainty of where and when it will be summarized is the only thing staying the hand of Helhelm. Once the summoning occurs, all stops are likely to be pulled and something new may be unleashed. I expect the response the Abomination will get from his peers about awakening some new horror on Helhelm can be summarized as "You fucking idiot!"
 
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