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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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stsword said:
Also, in Batmite, it was revealed that every DC character has a 5th dimensional counterpart. Batmite is the batman of the Justice League of the 5th dimension along with Wonder Imp and Superimp.

Maybe next April 1st the Orange Lantern Imp or Gravy Imp will show up. :)
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Ah, but even in-universe they're not technically DC characters, are they? :) I can imagine Bat-Mite getting very confused about who Orange Lantern is. Grayven maybe not so much, unless he appears significantly different to 5th-dimensional senses.
 
Mr Zoat said:
That said, KordTech is following normal patent law so if anyone else wants to start up their own manufacturing centre with their own magic users… We're certainly not going to stop them."
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So will Wayne Enterprises be hiring from Atlantis as well, or will they also be drawing from any "local talent"?

I know Gotham City has it's own share of Witch Covens, as it was implied by The Demon Vol 3, #22 "Witch War"!
 
Crimson Doom said:
Why? It's not Paul's responsibility to babysit the incurably moronic; if it was, it'd be a full-time job. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together will realize that Paul is leaving out key details and start gathering more information rather than going Leeroy Jenkins.
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Sure it would be easy for Paul to go "Not my problem", but unlike most of the people he provokes The Silver City wasn't planning on doing anything beforehand. So Paul is ultimately responsible for The Silver City even showing up, and thus causing the latest societal upheaval. There are definitely people who were going to live meaningless lives, but because of the Silver City and Paul they suddenly believe they can become something more.

I have family who insist if "X" happens, they'll suddenly get off their lazy butt despite already living in an amazing world. Plus, I would argue DC humans are dumber/crazier on average because their Earth still resembles ours despite all the amazing stuff. Sure there's going to be the clever ones who do proper research, and then the "clever" ones who make Jurassic Park sound reasonable. Everyone is their own unique person, which is exactly why there'll be at least one idiot who didn't think their shenanigans through.

Ultimately, most heroes in Paul's position would at least feel bad for accidentally inspiring a bunch of harmful fools. If for nothing else, Paul should at least approach it like he's helping to prevent future crimes or disasters- Something he's kind of been doing anyways.
 
Kkutlord said:
Ultimately, most heroes in Paul's position would at least feel bad for accidentally inspiring a bunch of harmful fools.
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I mean, it should be abundantly clear by now that Paul is not most heroes.

Kkutlord said:
If for nothing else, Paul should at least approach it like he's helping to prevent future crimes or disasters- Something he's kind of been doing anyways.
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He did that much more when he was stuck on Earth and had to live there. Now that he doesn't, and has a new goal in the form of obliterating the Reach and defeating Hell... frankly, I feel like Paul has entered a far more militaristic phase, where he has multiple powerful enemies who would tear down everything he tries to build up, and people seem to expect him to continue trying to uplift socially when the correct response is to focus on the military aspects to defeat everyone who would make all those social uplifts pointless. Once Hell is neutered, once the Reach are crippled, if nobody else is a looming threat, then he can go back to social reforms.
 
It doesn't really matter that Paul is such an anomalous hero, or that's he is in a more militaristic phase. The very least he can do for causing "OMG Angels are real" is put in some basic effort to dissuade people from doing stupid things on that front. He doesn't need a social reform plan, using clear cut words to explain "Don't provoke The Silver City" would help to prevent plenty of stupid actions. The rest he can leave to everyone else, and shrug at how some people are just too stupid.
 
Twilight666 said:
From what I remember, @Mr Zoat said that next April 1st Grayven is going to Wilson (MLP:FiM)
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Yep. And the year after that the SI is going to Angel Grove.
Kkutlord said:
It doesn't really matter that Paul is such an anomalous hero, or that's he is in a more militaristic phase. The very least he can do for causing "OMG Angels are real" is put in some basic effort to dissuade people from doing stupid things on that front. He doesn't need a social reform plan, using clear cut words to explain "Don't provoke The Silver City" would help to prevent plenty of stupid actions. The rest he can leave to everyone else, and shrug at how some people are just too stupid.
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The SI already told people that angels are real.
 
Kkutlord said:
It doesn't really matter that Paul is such an anomalous hero, or that's he is in a more militaristic phase. The very least he can do for causing "OMG Angels are real" is put in some basic effort to dissuade people from doing stupid things on that front. He doesn't need a social reform plan, using clear cut words to explain "Don't provoke The Silver City" would help to prevent plenty of stupid actions. The rest he can leave to everyone else, and shrug at how some people are just too stupid.
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Again, why is he responsible for people's reactions to Zauriel? Even if some people try to talk to the Silver City and get rebuffed, that only serves Paul's ends of getting people to stop identifying as Christians, sending them to a different afterlife where eternal punishment isn't a thing. And if someone is stupid enough to attempt violence against the Silver City, they likely would have done that regardless of anything Paul said and likely deserve whatever they get, to boot. Just because Paul is a superhero doesn't mean he's obligated to try to save everyone from everything; one could easily argue that anyone dumb enough to try to contact the Silver City without learning more about it wouldn't be listening to the self-professed Hellenist on the matter regardless.

Now, if it were me in that position... well, I probably wouldn't have stolen the fruit in the first place, but if I had, I would feel obligated to try to stop people from doing something dumb, because I feel guilty for everything that goes wrong that I'm even tenuously connected to. But Paul isn't like that. He doesn't do guilt, really, and isn't really interested in policing people who have multiple options and choose the stupidest of them. People who don't feel like they have options, who could be useful if turned? Sure. Random civilians who decided to try to contact an angel instead of going on with their lives don't qualify for that, though.

TL;DR: it's not a moral failing on Paul's part to not try to stop people from doing something stupid unless it seems likely that it would cause major havoc. Which, given that Heaven's response to robbing the Garden of Eden was to send an angel to negotiate rather than to smite, seems rather unlikely.
 
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Geminii said:
Ah, but even in-universe they're not technically DC characters, are they? :) I can imagine Bat-Mite getting very confused about who Orange Lantern is. Grayven maybe not so much, unless he appears significantly different to 5th-dimensional senses.
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If Batmite is anything to go by, the imp equivalents aren't the 5th dimensional doppelgangers like say Ultraman is the Earth 3 equivalent of Superman, but rather cosplayers with nigh infinite power.

So the only requirement for Paul to get a visit from his very own imp equivalent is for an imp to decide he's cool enough to dress up as.

Monshroud said:
So will Wayne Enterprises be hiring from Atlantis as well, or will they also be drawing from any "local talent"?

I know Gotham City has it's own share of Witch Covens, as it was implied by The Demon Vol 3, #22 "Witch War"!
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Bruce could always hire Cassandra Craft out of San Fran. She runs a magic shop that sells working fakes of superhero memorabilia like Sargon's Ruby of Life, or the TNT/Dan the Dynamite rings. So either she knows how to manufacture superhero origins there, or she has business ties with people who do.
 
JOKER: Well, since everyone's getting so religious these days, I thought I might as well throw myself into the ring too! So I don't suppose you'd be willing to take me on, sweet-cheeks?

ERIS: Awww, sorry honey. No can do. Even I've got standards. 'Sides, you already sold your soul to that "Neron" for a box of f@#$ing cubans! I don't think even Apep would take you on! And it doesn't matter that Death may, or may not, have taken out that snake long ago! That thing's a monster! And that's coming from me!

JOKER: ...Eh, fair enough! Worth a try anyway!

ERIS: Not really. Ciao!
 
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Monshroud said:
JOKER: Well, everyone's getting so religious these days, I might as well throw myself into the ring too! I don't suppose you'd be willing to take me on, sweet-cheeks?

ERIS: Awww, sorry honey. No can do. Even I've got standards. 'Sides, you already sold your soul to that "Neron" for a box of f@#$ing cubans! I don't think even Apep would take you on! And it doesn't matter that Death may, or may not, have taken out that snake long ago! That thing's a monster! And that's coming from me!

JOKER: ...Eh, fair enough! Worth a try anyway!

ERIS: Not really. Ciao!
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Loki: "Hold a moment, jester. We may be able to find a mutually beneficial accord."

Joker: "No can do, horse-boy. I'd get slapped with copyright infringement!"

Loki: "I... what? Explain yourself, jester."

Joker: "Let's just say I've had some very... enlightening conversations with a certain beetle. Hehehahehahahahaha!"

Loki: "...never mind. I'm destined to destroy all that lives, and you still are more unstable than I would prefer to deal with."
 
Monshroud said:
Ah yes, the atheist-reaction that there IS something like Life after Death, and God is REAL...

Aside from a possible "Go Mad from The Revelation" that might occur when one is in close proximity to "Proof of The Divine", and the mass burning of Richard Dawkins books, some might have a more... subdued reation.
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Would Dawkins' strong atheism even be a thing in DC? I mean, he's an atheist in real life because there's no proof that any god exists. In DC there's strong evidence that gods do exist, hence I would suspect that he would acknowledge the fact.

Also, as an aside, why do people always seem to assume that an atheist's response to proof of the divine would be either Lovecraft style "go mad with the revelation" or denial? That's absurd. We're usually atheists because the supposed evidence is laughably insufficient; occasionally we're atheists because we weren't brainwashed as children when our reasoning abilities weren't developed enough to see through the bullshit which is religion raised religious. If the reverse was true then we'd be theists. I know that my reaction to discovering that I was wrong and that Sky Cake was real would be annoyance, not madness or denial.
 
Vaermina said:
Do you mean MMPR Angel Grove or Shattered Grid Angel Grove?

Because while MMPR would be amusing, Paul having the eternal noodle incident of being chased out of the universe by an evil Power Ranger would be hilarious.
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MMPR.
SirKaid said:
Would Dawkins' strong atheism even be a thing in DC? I mean, he's an atheist in real life because there's no proof that any god exists. In DC there's strong evidence that gods do exist, hence I would suspect that he would acknowledge the fact.
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Star cultist, probably.
 
SirKaid said:
Also, as an aside, why do people always seem to assume that an atheist's response to proof of the divine would be either Lovecraft style "go mad with the revelation" or denial? That's absurd. We're usually atheists because the supposed evidence is laughably insufficient; occasionally we're atheists because we weren't brainwashed as children when our reasoning abilities weren't developed enough to see through the bullshit which is religion raised religious. If the reverse was true then we'd be theists. I know that my reaction to discovering that I was wrong and that Sky Cake was real would be annoyance, not madness or denial.
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Heck, when Paul ended up in the DC verse his justification for his atheism despite the existence of gods was basically"Just because they exist doesn't mean I'm required to put my faith in them." The only reason he can be considered a Hellenist is for the practical benefits not actual faith.
 
DC atheists probably remain that way because DC people are really good at denying reality; look at Kid Flash and how he originally refused to believe in magic despite having a wizard on the team from a magic based civilization. That's as if Batman refused to believe in aliens despite serving on a team with Superman, Martian Manhunter and the Hawks.

More realistic reactions I think would be:

Denying the "gods" count as gods. Much the same as many monotheists do; the "it's not really a god unless it is omnipotent" line of reasoning would be popular, I think.

Turning to antitheism, antireligion or apatheism; the position that believing in gods or following them is a bad idea, or that they don't matter. Most of the arguments for religion and worship being a bad thing work just as well whether or not gods are real, after all.

Doing what OL has, and treating them like powerful people rather than icons.

Also doing what OL has, and approaching them on a "what can I get from them, and what will they want in return" basis. A position that you'd think would be more common in a setting like DC; it's the same principle as selling your soul to demons for power like any number of characters have, except that most gods give a much better deal. Often better benefits for far less cost; look at Kon and Helios in this story.
 
Read Black Orchid, and it had an interesting origin for Nymphs.

Angels, Demons, and Spirits visited the Earth even before mankind arose.

Their travel made the veil between worlds thin, and Anna The-World-That-Is peeked into what life might have been like if other choices had been made.

From a world in which the difference between plant and animal was never established, came Wood Nymphs, and other Nymphs of the Green.

From a world in which life arose based on silicon, Mountain Nymphs, and presumably other Nymphs of the Melt (DC finally named the elemental power of stone).

Based on a world in which life was liquid and free, Water Nymphs, presumably of the Clear/Blue.

Black Orchid, being a flower nymph, was definitely of the Green, and stone and water nymphs were established to exist, but that they were likewise tied to elemental powers is just an assumption based on the Black Orchid's abilities.

So Nymphs are basically alternate humanities.

After creating the Moss Mother, the nymph, Anna The-World-That-Is created the first plant elemental (at least on Earth), so nymphs are elemental's older siblings. Shepherds, then Guardians.

Now I'm not holding my breath that Zoat will use any of that, but I thought it might be interesting to include what with a Nymph being a recurring character.

Or perhaps on the transhuman front, since Black Orchid was made from mortal science, especially since there are other elemental forces one might make a nymph connected to.
 
Mr Zoat said:
I can't write about things I haven't seen, and I'm afraid I stopped watching Power Rangers well before Time Force became a thing.
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Time Force is actually a full-on organisation, and Power Rangers Hyper Force further proves it. So you could easily just write up Original Character operatives who don't even have to be proper Rangers, though if Hyper Force introducing a Silver Time Force Ranger means anything... Ultimately though, it'd be a separate continuity regardless, so pulling some creative freedom would be fine.
 
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