With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Batman did offer to Zatana to let her live with him in this fic, she turned him town. Can't find the quote because I'm on a phone but I think part of why is he wouldn't say who he was until after she's accepted.
They have that too. Geniuses are not quite a dime a dozen on Earth 16, but probably close. It's just that no one does anything with all that knowledge aside from 1) going supervillain or 2) getting kidnapped/killed by a supervillain for developing stuff based on that knowledge. And ten to one the governments are only interested in banning all the useful knowledge from being used either due to supervillains spoiling it all (see the ban magic thing) or because corporations are blocking development to maintain their evil monopoly and/or status quo.
Well, to be fair, in the various comics-verses, all of those pseudo-science have a good chance of actually working and/or giving you superpowers. Remember SI's little rant about how nanotech does not work in IRL they way it does on Earth 16?
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...Um, are you arguing with Zoat on his own story? If Zoat implies that summoning the Ophidian is likely a terrble idea than it's likely a terrible idea since he as the person writing the story would know.
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He offered but didn't tell her who he was. He'd obviously have to tell her if she accepted. It was in Zatara's will.
Paul wasn't happy with that, saying that A: Zarata isn't dead, so the will shouldn't come into effect. And if he was being treated as dead, bruce shouldn't have offered, it should have just happened. With the reveal of his identity coming as a given.
Instead, Batman gave her the choice of living on her own, or going to live with a man she knows nothing about.
Paul had to install a Zeta-tube in her house so she didn't have to choose between living in her own house and going to her old school completely alone, or leaving everything she knows behind to live with a man she doesn't know and going to Happy-Harbour school via zeta-tube.
As-is, she lives in her own home and goes to her old school, but can travel to and from the mountain full of her peers at-will.
She still doesn't have any real legal guardian, assuming Paul doesn't count.
Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
Of course, once her father wakes up and can be declared fit, that problem will solve itself. Still a shitty situation that really should have been handled better, though.
Silveraith
Argent Phantasm
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Hmm, so it seems that the League will need a new magic type.
Which reminds me, there's a magical gothamite Simon Dark that would be interesting. He's a teenager who was made from the body part of 20 boys given life by a combination of Frankensteinian mad science and occult rituals.
He has twenty souls- the souls of his organ donors.
Of course the munchkin in me wonders if having multiple souls is a work around for the Garrick and Danner formulas being mutually exclusive, or what someone with 20 souls could do magically with better tutelage.
He has a father who wants to cure death with the power of science! and a "brother" who is a cop who continued working for the Gotham PD after getting killed on the job.
Which reminds me, there's a magical gothamite Simon Dark that would be interesting. He's a teenager who was made from the body part of 20 boys given life by a combination of Frankensteinian mad science and occult rituals.
He has twenty souls- the souls of his organ donors.
Of course the munchkin in me wonders if having multiple souls is a work around for the Garrick and Danner formulas being mutually exclusive, or what someone with 20 souls could do magically with better tutelage.
He has a father who wants to cure death with the power of science! and a "brother" who is a cop who continued working for the Gotham PD after getting killed on the job.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
I'm going to just point out that this is fanon, not actually how it works in mass effect. All the Reapers do is leave the Mass Relays and the Citadel around so that galactic society's develop along the lines of using the Mass Relays, other then that they might leave a few relics of previous cycles left lying around but that's about it. There's nothing at all in Mass Effect about "planned technological path", that's just fanon along side the rest of Mass Effect bad fanfiction tropes:
razer665L said:
Well, yes, because Paul is right and smart, and everyone else is wrong and dumb. At the point you're going with "He gave her a choice; that monster!", I think you have to admit that you're in bash-territory.
Back in a world with some semblance of logic, I don't find it bizarre that some people might not actually want to know other people's secret identities, and giving them the choice rather than just forcing the knowledge on them is a matter of respecting their right to make that decision for themselves.
To me, that reaction is emblematic of why I've detested this entire plotline and I'm glad it's almost over.
I like seeing both the Paragon and Renegade sides, because that sidesteps one of the cardinal reasons why SI fics are generally shitty: A SI MC has the author on their side, so they're always right about everything. The contrast of Paragon and Renegade shows us characters sometimes getting things wrong, and that even if it looks like a success on the surface, the character might not have been completely right and there was a better route the character didn't take.
The entire Nabu storyline has been about how everyone else is incredibly idiotic (and includes changing canon in ways to make them more idiotic), and Paul is completely right about everything, embracing that 'SI as author avatar who's always right' shittiness wholeheartedly.
I've been holding out hope that we'd get to the end of the storyline and find out that, in actuality, Paul is a bit of an unreliable narrator and he's not actually the smartest and most right person in the universe, and that the entire storyline has been subverting SI shittiness rather than playing it straight. I'll continue to hold out hope until the end of this episode, since I'm still dubious that everything is exactly as it appears.
Yes, I actually know that.
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There is an element of "I know better than you" within this plotline, but I don't think Zoat treated the other characters too unfairly, given what we know in canon. Like, usually it worked out.
Personally, I'd love to see a one off, maybe from Adom's perspective, from Zoat that details what happened after Paul went unconscious. It could be from a third person perspective if you don't want to get too out of your wheelhouse, Zoat. If any moment in the fic deserves it, I think the final moments of the fight and the immediate "what the hell" deserve it.
Personally, I'd love to see a one off, maybe from Adom's perspective, from Zoat that details what happened after Paul went unconscious. It could be from a third person perspective if you don't want to get too out of your wheelhouse, Zoat. If any moment in the fic deserves it, I think the final moments of the fight and the immediate "what the hell" deserve it.
You know, if people count 'Achieved the objective accepting that some fallout is inevitable afterwards - but there were unforeseen losses doing so that can't be simply undone' after a long-running plotline as 'The SI cannot lose!' then I dread to think how bad things have to get to count as even a partial loss...
We have seen the Renegade side of this... the Paragon plotline seen as just 'get rid of Nabu' is trying to recover from an earlier loss. There have been side-effects along the way, of course; we've seen character development and screen time for Zatanna and John, we've seen new arcane technologies get invented and used, and we have the major side-win of empowering John. Seen from that perspective it isn't just recovering from a post-Roanoke loss, but it still isn't All Winning All The Time.
Now can we please discuss something else? Unless you've got actual responses to what I said above I would be glad even to see different complaints - such as the currently theorized minor mental influence on the League seeming to not show up before... but being the only good explanation I've heard so far to explain why things would proceed along Canon (besides a failure of writing, but I would hope Zoat can do better than to intentionally write poorly just because someone else did it by accident...)
We have seen the Renegade side of this... the Paragon plotline seen as just 'get rid of Nabu' is trying to recover from an earlier loss. There have been side-effects along the way, of course; we've seen character development and screen time for Zatanna and John, we've seen new arcane technologies get invented and used, and we have the major side-win of empowering John. Seen from that perspective it isn't just recovering from a post-Roanoke loss, but it still isn't All Winning All The Time.
Now can we please discuss something else? Unless you've got actual responses to what I said above I would be glad even to see different complaints - such as the currently theorized minor mental influence on the League seeming to not show up before... but being the only good explanation I've heard so far to explain why things would proceed along Canon (besides a failure of writing, but I would hope Zoat can do better than to intentionally write poorly just because someone else did it by accident...)
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GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Then why are you complaining about bad fanon written by stupid people who don't have a clue about reality or the setting they are writing about. You cant force idiots to grow a brain before they write something.
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This again? Think you are seriously overblowing the whole the SI is always right thing. Paul has outright mess quite a few times and could have handled things far better. Not to mentio that everyones behavior is pretty close to canon which quite a few people have bashed in regards to how they handled Nabu. Another important bit is that according to canon the League was working on getting Nabu off of Zatara. The main problem appears to be communication, which likely could have avoided a lot of the whole Nabu situation if it turned out that Paul could have saved himself a lot of trouble by talking with them about it or vice versa.
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Thank you, corrected.
I am aware of this problem. This update is actually about normal length if you cut that out, but I'll see what I can do about moderating the problem in future posts.
That's technically right, but he hasn't fully internalised it yet.
Death as we know it has probably never existed on Earth 16. They have visitable afterlives.
They're rather shocked, both from what he said he did and the intensity of his mental transmission. They will be talking to him about it before the end of the episode.
Wolf doesn't have the full range of Human vocabulary.
That happened here as well, but with the SI pushed the 'remove Nabu by force' line she had even less reason to accept than in canon. I don't know why she didn't accept in canon, but in this the reason she gave for turning it down was that it sounded too much like accepting that her father was dead. The SI only found out about it afterwards, and has since supported her in such a way that Batman and Canary's offer was largely irrelevant.
I would suggest that the fact that Nabu was still part of the League in 2016 and still wearing Mister Zatara as of November 2015 (and possibly for the second series as well) suggests that at the very least they weren't particularly aggressive about it.
Because I was making a more generalized argument about the nature of scientific progress, using the well-known, if factually incorrect, example as a side-note brought up by the other side of the argument. I myself didn't appeal to that specific situation at all.
She's a minor. She shouldn't be having to make a choice like that.
Either treat her father as dead and follow the will, sending her to live with either her next-of-kin or batman, or treat him as still alive and work to recover him, with someone looking after her in the meantime.
You don't offer to leave a fourteen year old girl on her own, miles away from anyone she knows, after her father just 'died' or went missing.
Especially not if the only alternative seems to be "Live with relatives in italty who don't speak the same language as you, and who you barely know" or "Live with a kinda scary superhero who you don't know at all and who won't tell you who he is unless you agree."
It's unconscionable.
You can bitch about this arc as much as you like, but I don't see anything that was changed from canon. Nabu doing this shit is canon, as is nobody trying to stop him, as is (seemingly) nobody supporting Zatanna after she lost her father.
The fact that people seemed to stop caring is probably just bad-writing.
Yes Zatanna is willing to work with Fate after the timeskip, but there's no indication that her father was actually freed in the meantime.
For all we know she's just that desperate to see her father again that she'll work with Nabu in hopes of seeing a glimpse.
Word of Greg on the matter amounts to "Shhh! Spoilers" and ">Implying" with no actual information at all. So it's worthless.
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Batman is, of course, known for dealing with children in a sensible manner.
(
)Batman is, of course, known for dealing with children in a sensible manner.
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Batdad is usually pretty good, and if Zatanna knew he was bruce wayne, it wouldn't be too bad.
As is, she only knows him as the strict and kinda loony superhero who dresses like a bat and apparently lives in a series of caves or some shit.
She doesn't know he's a real-ass human-being (as far as anyone can tell) with a fourteen guest-bedrooms and a butler.
Stratagemini
Totally a Fire Ferret.
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Paul told her here.
Jamie Roberts
Hávamál 127
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Zatanna is a witch. If they try to order her to take an action she doesn't want to take, how to you recommend that they enforce the matter? The very last thing they want is for Zatanna to, say, run away because she didn't like the option that had been picked without her input.
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
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I'm writing a canon omake for this episode, although it isn't precisely what you called for here. It needs revising and I need a bit more information, but it will happen.
Also, I doubt that the Guardians load up enough information to make a full AI onto their regular Lanterns' rings. Plus, it's not like the Manhunters turned out all that well, so the Guardians aren't necessarily experts on AI.
Earth has also produced things that no one else has.
Recaps are supposed to remind you of what happened. Given that this is merely a single update, roughly equivalent to 5 minutes of a single episode of television. Little more than a flashback to remind us of what happened.
Funnily enough, I think the simplest method of doing so is to convert everyone to a religion with a decent afterlife. Not easy, but it's conceptually the most simple.
A large problem of season 2 of YJ is that they simply didn't have the time or budget to go into all the plots they wanted. Some things got dropped, and from what I remember one of those things was Zatanna and how Nabu and Zatara worked their relationship. I think some Red Tornado plot got dropped as well, which explains why Red Volcano just suddenly appeared with no explanation.
Honestly, I don't even think it's a problem. Not every single update has to be filled with new stuff.
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And the undead and reincarnation (probably) too.
But isn't maximizing his friends lifespans the reason Paul hands out Danner formula like pez?
After all, there are numerous ways to give out enhanced offense and defense, speed is somewhat rarer.
Which means that Paul could give out both speed and enhanced offense/defense, which will certainly help in the superhero game.
Giving out Danner instead suggests Paul is also worried about say, cancer or slipping in the shower.
And since the DC franchise has several technological ways to cheat death from ghost AI to brain transplants, it would seem that Paul would especially include those in the "Why aren't you using all this technology?"
The Brain is a brain in a jar, Cadmus can grow clones. Combine those two and you can save someone's brain and grow them a new body good as new.
But no, the Light would rather play supervillains.
It doesn't really take much transhumanism to say "You know, since we have the technology to cure death, maybe we ought to actually use it."
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