With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

[Coda]

How would spies work in a society where everyone has known everyone for millennia? The only way information on the pregnancies could get past the wards over Themiscyra is if Hippolyta or OL told Diana/Donna about it and they told someone else, which is dubious. I heavily doubt anyone not associated with the League knows about the pregnancies.

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Dunbar's Number. If there are more than about 150 people on Themyscira, then any individual Amazon wouldn't give a second thought to walking past a person that's not immediately familiar to them. They might start experiencing jamais vu if they interact with the spy for any significant period of time ("I know I've at least met everyone on the island, so why does this feel unfamiliar?") but brief, casual contact, especially in a crowd, would be unlikely to draw attention.

 

[PaperMache7]

Has there been an established way of him doing so without compromising his humanity? Or do so safely?

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I'll start off by saying that the human body is shit in a world where multiple race of aliens are so far better in every way (obviously some exotic things won't work, but there's a lot more than just that to take example of). Even if you forget about aliens, most tissues could be replaced with materials (biological or not) that would massively increase his innate defense/strength/endurance. He's basically an amazing biokinetic (and can use things that aren't even biologic), but barely made use of the ability beyond the first time he did so and the healing. Safety comes with being able to restore any changes with the ring.

Well, he has done this. Initially, lots of magic could completely bypass his defenses. He now has really good magical defenses. Until he gets with the Controllers, he won't be able to get good defenses against stuff like that.

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That's only if he wants to get highly technological things that aren't even in his database.

 

[Zatch P]

Has there been an established way of him doing so without compromising his humanity? Or do so safely?

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Well, he hasn't bothered to check the Danner or Garrick formulas since getting a soul. They may be safe to use now. There are obvious reasons not to from a story perspective. The smart choice is obviously Garrick, after all.

Super strength and durability provides little additional benefit for someone who primarily relies on a power ring; if he needs those things, he's already in a bad situation. Only the durability would matter, and only if something breaks past his multiple, powerful defenses. And most things that can get past ring shields, magical wards, and power armor would also get past a tough body.

Super speed, and more importantly the reflexes to go with them, is a much better choice. Unlike strength, this is something that should stack just fine with his ring usage. The speed might not actively let him fly around faster, but land-based speed in the FTL range is pretty good alone, especially since OL tends to run low on power a lot. The reflexes are much more impressive. The speed at which he can do things with his ring is limited to the speed he can think instructions at; that's why he uses that perception acceleration thing so much. This is that, but without the same limits and with no power cost. Very good on the defensive too, since he could instruct the ring to inform him of any incoming threats at super speed instead of normal speed, giving him plenty of time to dodge.

So Garrick formula is a much better choice than Danner formula. The problem is you can only get one, and both work the same way. There's no way OL would pick Danner over Garrick, and because Zoat decided they work the same way there's no way that only Danner would be available. That's probably why OL hasn't checked again; Garrick formula plus power ring equals massively overpowered. And worst, if the Garrick speed can stack with Ring flight (or even worse, FTL), then in literally any fight on the planet OL could just say "Oh, running low on power, give me half a second to go home and recharge".

Other than this, we've got the Venom Buster that Renegade used. He turned monstrous, but he was also dumb enough to just load it up and make the change as soon as he got it. A smarter, more careful paragon OL would study it with his power ring until he could modify it so that it wouldn't turn him into some kind of gray ogre. In fact, I remember when we were originally informed that Ol's blood wouldn't react at all with Garrick or Danner formula we were also shown that it would with Venom Buster. Which means that he had a sample enough to use, and with the ring that means he can reproduce it at will. I don't think we've heard anything about it since then.

Safety comes with being able to restore any changes with the ring.

Click to shrink...

Venom Buster. Entirely chemical based so the ring should understand it, it does work on him (he even tested it with some of his blood ages ago), and he can undo it. Unless he's just forgotten it, he really should have made good progress in creating a version that doesn't cause the same kind of big obvious mutations. And really, given he can easily undo the effects of it, even the normal version should be available for use in fights. No reason not to have the ring transform him every fight he's in (using pre-prepared juice to save power, even), then just transmute himself back to normal afterwords.

@Mr Zoat, did OL ever actually bother researching the Venom Buster formula (or the less powerful components) more after he got it to try and make it less... mutate-y? Because he knows that, unlike Danner or Garrick, that would work on him, he just needs to solve the 'turn into a big rock monster' problem. And unlike those two, he can easily undo the effects of Venom Buster if it doesn't work right. Presumably if you can get even half that power safely, without a horrible mutation, that'd be worth it. I'd take a tenth, really. If something better came along he could always reverse it, after all. Oh also, I was rereading the story only thread a while ago, and I found this:

"Ten percent power remaining. As per standing orders nonessential ring functions are now triggered by direct request only. High expenditure abilities not recommended."

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So going by this, OL should be able to use flight, FTL, and all that stuff even at low power. He's not forcibly and inescapably cut off when he hits low percentages, he just needs to specifically override the protections in place. Why then is it always treated as 'hit the minimum power level, and you can't do the thing no matter what'? OL forgetting the ring's power limitations are not absolute, or was this line a mistake? Given OL continued to not use FTL, contact help, or anything else at this point in the story, I'm guessing this line is just wrong.

 

[Empiricist2]

I'll start off by saying that the human body is shit in a world where multiple race of aliens are so far better in every way (obviously some exotic things won't work, but there's a lot more than just that to take example of). Even if you forget about aliens, most tissues could be replaced with materials (biological or not) that would massively increase his innate defense/strength/endurance. He's basically an amazing biokinetic (and can use things that aren't even biologic), but barely made use of the ability beyond the first time he did so and the healing. Safety comes with being able to restore any changes with the ring.

Click to shrink...

You originally raised the point because his brain may have been hit leading to an instant death. Unless there is some as yet unmentioned way of safely improving the durability of his brain, having a tougher body doesn't help at all. And really, unless he gets the ability to turn himself into a Kryptonian or New God, any durability increase is pretty nominal next to his ring and armor.

In my view that's basically why he hasn't bothered learning enough about biology to make his body better: any time spent learning biology gives incredibly marginal returns on time invested compared to learning how to make better armor or defend himself with the ring better. If he could decentralize his mind to be able to use the ring to heal himself even if half his body is gone, then yes it would be great, but there's no guarantee that it's possible for him to safely do that without significantly altering himself further away from humanity. It's much easier to convince Guy to ask Kilowogg or some other veteran Lantern about advanced defence techniques and have Guy pass it on to OL. Hell, that's how he learned telepathic defense. Instead of changing his brain to resist telepathic attack, he just asked the experts.

 

[shepsquared]

Well, he hasn't bothered to check the Danner or Garrick formulas since getting a soul. They may be safe to use now. There are obvious reasons not to from a story perspective. The smart choice is obviously Garrick, after all.

Super strength and durability provides little additional benefit for someone who primarily relies on a power ring; if he needs those things, he's already in a bad situation. Only the durability would matter, and only if something breaks past his multiple, powerful defenses. And most things that can get past ring shields, magical wards, and power armor would also get past a tough body.

Super speed, and more importantly the reflexes to go with them, is a much better choice. Unlike strength, this is something that should stack just fine with his ring usage. The speed might not actively let him fly around faster, but land-based speed in the FTL range is pretty good alone, especially since OL tends to run low on power a lot. The reflexes are much more impressive. The speed at which he can do things with his ring is limited to the speed he can think instructions at; that's why he uses that perception acceleration thing so much. This is that, but without the same limits and with no power cost. Very good on the defensive too, since he could instruct the ring to inform him of any incoming threats at super speed instead of normal speed, giving him plenty of time to dodge.

So Garrick formula is a much better choice than Danner formula. The problem is you can only get one, and both work the same way. There's no way OL would pick Danner over Garrick, and because Zoat decided they work the same way there's no way that only Danner would be available. That's probably why OL hasn't checked again; Garrick formula plus power ring equals massively overpowered. And worst, if the Garrick speed can stack with Ring flight (or even worse, FTL), then in literally any fight on the planet OL could just say "Oh, running low on power, give me half a second to go home and recharge".

Other than this, we've got the Venom Buster that Renegade used. He turned monstrous, but he was also dumb enough to just load it up and make the change as soon as he got it. A smarter, more careful paragon OL would study it with his power ring until he could modify it so that it wouldn't turn him into some kind of gray ogre. In fact, I remember when we were originally informed that Ol's blood wouldn't react at all with Garrick or Danner formula we were also shown that it would with Venom Buster. Which means that he had a sample enough to use, and with the ring that means he can reproduce it at will. I don't think we've heard anything about it since then.


Venom Buster. Entirely chemical based so the ring should understand it, it does work on him (he even tested it with some of his blood ages ago), and he can undo it. Unless he's just forgotten it, he really should have made good progress in creating a version that doesn't cause the same kind of big obvious mutations. And really, given he can easily undo the effects of it, even the normal version should be available for use in fights. No reason not to have the ring transform him every fight he's in (using pre-prepared juice to save power, even), then just transmute himself back to normal afterwords.

@Mr Zoat, did OL ever actually bother researching the Venom Buster formula (or the less powerful components) more after he got it to try and make it less... mutate-y? Because he knows that, unlike Danner or Garrick, that would work on him, he just needs to solve the 'turn into a big rock monster' problem. And unlike those two, he can easily undo the effects of Venom Buster if it doesn't work right. Presumably if you can get even half that power safely, without a horrible mutation, that'd be worth it. I'd take a tenth, really. If something better came along he could always reverse it, after all. Oh also, I was rereading the story only thread a while ago, and I found this:


So going by this, OL should be able to use flight, FTL, and all that stuff even at low power. He's not forcibly and inescapably cut off when he hits low percentages, he just needs to specifically override the protections in place. Why then is it always treated as 'hit the minimum power level, and you can't do the thing no matter what'? OL forgetting the ring's power limitations are not absolute, or was this line a mistake? Given OL continued to not use FTL, contact help, or anything else at this point in the story, I'm guessing this line is just wrong.

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He's mentioned what runs out when before, though I can't remember exactly. He loses translation around 3-4% though.

 

[Norgarth]

Dunbar's Number. If there are more than about 150 people on Themyscira, then any individual Amazon wouldn't give a second thought to walking past a person that's not immediately familiar to them. They might start experiencing jamais vu if they interact with the spy for any significant period of time ("I know I've at least met everyone on the island, so why does this feel unfamiliar?") but brief, casual contact, especially in a crowd, would be unlikely to draw attention.

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How would a spy get onto Themyscira? It's magically cloaked/protected from most detection. You generally need magical guidance or luck just to find it.

Said spy would also need to be fluent in ancient Greek (not the same as modern Greek) and be familiar enough with Amazon customs to not draw attention for social gaffs.

 

[sockmonkey]

OL already has the ability to make himself telepathic and telekinetic. Aside from the specs for the thinking cap, he has scans of Psimon and M'gann, plus whatever info was on Stuart's ring regarding such abilities and the biology of the beings that have them. He could also ask Brainwave II if he would consent to a medical scan. All that stuff put together is enough info to make himself "organically" telepathic at the very least.

 

[PaperMache7]

You originally raised the point because his brain may have been hit leading to an instant death. Unless there is some as yet unmentioned way of safely improving the durability of his brain, having a tougher body doesn't help at all. And really, unless he gets the ability to turn himself into a Kryptonian or New God, any durability increase is pretty nominal next to his ring and armor.

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Making someone a Kryptonian isn't hard at all renegade did it for Conner, the issue is that it requires some brain changes to gain the full powerset, but just the super strength and durability would be pretty great. Yeah forgot how effy he was about any changes to his brain, my solution would be to have to have an organ (in the torso area) that can trigger the ring healing whenever his brain gets damaged, logically the effect should be easy to replicate without the secondary organ being an actual brain.

In my view that's basically why he hasn't bothered learning enough about biology to make his body better: any time spent learning biology gives incredibly marginal returns on time invested compared to learning how to make better armor or defend himself with the ring better. If he could decentralize his mind to be able to use the ring to heal himself even if half his body is gone, then yes it would be great, but there's no guarantee that it's possible for him to safely do that without significantly altering himself further away from humanity. It's much easier to convince Guy to ask Kilowogg or some other veteran Lantern about advanced defence techniques and have Guy pass it on to OL. Hell, that's how he learned telepathic defense. Instead of changing his brain to resist telepathic attack, he just asked the experts.

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He doesn't need to learn much of anything about biology, just have the ring do the data analysis as per usual. Anyway, being able to have additional defenses is always a plus and we're talking about the guy who took the time to learn how to use firearms, wouldn't exactly be a waste compared to that. Also being able to do stuff without the ring is kinda important , remember when Truggs almost got him killed? Having a power body sure would have been useful back then, though he has the kinetic belt, so I guess he's been working on that I suppose, still doesn't doesn't stop a similar scenario from occurring again. So yeah there's no way spending a week (or even a day, gosh) wouldn't be valuable and it's not like him doing one thing stops him from doing another.

 

[Empiricist2]

Making someone a Kryptonian isn't hard at all renegade did it for Conner

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Renegade has a Father Box and he scanned Superman's fortress for the database. OL doesn't have one and isn't willing t be that intrusive. And I don't think OL could do it to himself given the brain changes, and he would need to be actively using the ring the entire time.

Yeah forgot how effy he was about any changes to his brain, my solution would be to have to have an organ (in the torso area) that can trigger the ring healing whenever his brain gets damaged, logically the effect should be easy to replicate without the secondary organ being an actual brain.

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In order to use the ring independently of his original brain, it would need to be able to want stuff for itself, which will almost certainly necessitate it being a mind.

He doesn't need to learn much of anything about biology, just have the ring do the data analysis as per usual.

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The ring isn't creative. Making human biology into some other biology and having it work definitely requires creativity and a deep knowledge of both biologies.

Also being able to do stuff without the ring is kinda important, remember when Truggs almost got him killed? Having a power body sure would have been useful back then

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No it wouldn't have. If he was dangerous enough to beat the venom buster enhanciles without the ring, Truggs would have just turned the telepathy thing on harder.

 

[PaperMache7]

Renegade has a Father Box and he scanned Superman's fortress for the database. OL doesn't have one and isn't willing t be that intrusive. And I don't think OL could do it to himself given the brain changes, and he would need to be actively using the ring the entire time.

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Don't think he needs to have the ring considering it's the unique organelles that give Kryptonians their powers. I'd consider adding those to every cell as intrusive as adding the formula to every cell.

In order to use the ring independently of his original brain, it would need to be able to want stuff for itself, which will almost certainly necessitate it being a mind.

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Wanting a specific thing creates a specific brain pattern, making something that can output the equivalent of the pattern wouldn't need consciousness.

The ring isn't creative. Making human biology into some other biology and having it work definitely requires creativity and a deep knowledge of both biologies.

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It's not, but what makes it so good is its ability to predict a final result. So just looking for something that would work and asking the ring if it would should be enough. There's a ton of stuff out there that can't be easily done because too little of it can be produced and it being too hard to implement, that's not an issue for the ring.

No it wouldn't have. If he was dangerous enough to beat the venom buster enhanciles without the ring, Truggs would have just turned the telepathy thing on harder.

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Obviously he'd have beaten them after Truggs already took his ring, since being tough and strong wouldn't have changed that, but he wouldn't have been at the mercy of Bane and come this close to dying.

 

[Mr Zoat]

25th April
10:42 GMT -6

"Before you go-" The Huntsman crouches slightly. It looks… Tired? Hard to tell. The purple has spread through its limbs to the point that the black is almost totally obscured. I manacle him again. "-could you possibly deactivate any anti-Lantern devices your father has installed?"

"Ahh… He didn't have any last time I checked." My left eye twitches just a little. "I mean, he might have put in stuff that works on Lanterns-."

"Thank you. Carry on."

Ring, full scan. And assimilate.

The construct manacles flare as I try assimilating him through them. No, it doesn't look like that's going to work. Full scan gives me… A whole lot of really complicated information which would no doubt be fascinating to the Sivanas but is basically gibberish to me.

Alert! Thirty percent power remaining.

I scan Beautia's location. She's still eating, now looking slightly less roasted. Next, I abandon my assimilation efforts and try transitioning the Huntsman. Nothing. Try transitioning a piece of debris? That worked, but I still don't really want to risk it.

Alert! Twenty nine percent power remaining.

Time to be gone. The manacles and gravity converter are gone in an instant, eight more Praexis Demons appearing from the rings and swarming the Huntsman once more. Next, I form ion engine constructs and blast myself upward, back into warehouse seven. I dismiss my construct armour and send a second group of Praexis Demons down the shaft towards the ground floor. If I'm lucky the Huntsman will see the orange glow and assume that it's me.

"Ready to go?"

She puts down the soup bowl and wipes her hands on her jacket. "How are we getting out?"

"This place is all made of the same material, yes?"

"Ah, the structure is, yes."

"It doesn't impede my phasing. We're going out through the wall."

"To the surface of Venus?"

"We'll be phased, so the temperature and atmosphere won't be problems. Grab on."

Her eyes flick over my armour as she looks for a handhold. I open my left arm slightly and she steps up to me, wrapping her right arm around my forearm and putting her left hand on my left shoulder. I pull her in closer and float us off the ground before phasing us both and flying full pelt at the far wall. I have tested phasing with an external object before, but this probably isn't something it's wise to keep up while on low power. We pass through the wall… Hadn't realised quite how thick it was. Doesn't take more than half a second, then we're out in the open air. I also didn't really appreciate how tall this building is from the ground. Not without a casual ring scan to give me the numbers. I wonder how Doctor Sivana managed to build it? Orbital construction, then lower it? Build it on Earth then teleport it? No idea. I'll ask later. Only a short flight to-.

There's a boom behind me as an explosion rips through the wall of the warehouse complex! Chunks of building material are sent flying, then the murky clouds surrounding us are sucked in by the lower pressure. For a moment I see the twinkling lights that mark the Huntsman's body, but all I can think is 'uagh, that's a perfectly good building ruined'. I reduce my glow to minimum and drop, more decoy Praexis Demons flying away as I aim for the corridor connecting the storage warehouse to the habitat.

Okay, between the clouds and the lights if his vision works based on visible light… Or infrared, due to the armour's insulation and my environmental shield, or.. actually, most things, then he can't see me. If he can't see me, why is he looking this way? One, he can see me perfectly well. Gravity sense? I do have mass, after all. I'm not drawing green lightning… Has he given up on that, or can he really not see me?

Through into the tunnel. Quick check, door at the far end still in one piece. End phase.

"-coming back any time soon, or do we have a few minutes?"

I open my left arm. "Beautia, go. Make sure they're set up."

She nods, then sprints towards the habitat end. Huh. No quick 'what about you'? I mean, just running was far more sensible… I suppose… Full body armour does rather… Discourage…

Eh.

"Sooner would be better, Georgia. You've got maybe a minute and I'd like it if it were less."

"You know..?"

Ring, remaining charge?

Twenty four percent remaining.

Don't really want to light myself up. One thing about the Huntsman is that he doesn't seem to be in a hurry.

"Know what?"

"Just saying… 'Tia's not really one for exotic physics… She couldn't do what Junior and I are doing."

"I am fully cognisant of the virtues which you possess and which she does not. I also doubt that whatever happened with Justin was malicious on her part, while coming on to her boyfriend would be. Also, you're… What, fifteen?"

"Bet you wouldn't say that if I looked like her."

"I would, moral standards being a big part of the superhero thing. Look, shouldn't you be focusing on building.. whatever you're building?"

"I can work and talk at the same time. What do you want for one of those power rings?"

"I'm afraid those aren't for sale." Gravity based weapons had an effect… There is a beam singularity projector on file. But there are a lot of warning flags and I might want this power to run if the Sivanas' device doesn't work.

"You've got two. I could tell you how that zeta platform works."

"Okay, firstly, you wouldn't be able to recharge it without an orange personal lantern and I own the only one in existence. Secondly, if you really want one I'm happy to forward your application to the Controllers in two months' time. Thirdly, you stole my property while under the flag of truce. Fourthly… Georgia, you're an omnidisciplinary genius. If Beautia's appearance really bothers you that much, build an automatic plastic chirurgeon or something."

"Power ring would be easier. That's how you did you, right?"

"Tell you what. Deal with the Sheeda Huntsman and I'll see what-."

The tunnel in front of me implodes as the Huntsman falls through it, landing in a small crouch. Venus' atmosphere at once begins boiling in. I recreate the gravity converter and hurl my supply of neural chaff grenades even as I start flying backwards, shooting him before he is quite able to focus on me. Before I reach the habitat side I create a construct airlock and step though it. Ring, power?

Twenty two percent remaining.

I toss twenty Praexis Demons through the gap, then open the door to the habitat and fly through, closing it behind me. Okay, that should buy a few more seconds. I turn-.

"Hey, Orange!" Thaddeus Junior waves at me from the control seat of a.. contraption. There's a.. gun… I think. And a platform built on what look like robot spider legs. And some sort of computer system and a.. power supply. And that's when I notice that the corridor has a shimmering force field across it and the Sivana children are all on the far side of it. "Clear the way!"

 

[Silveraith]

Thirdly, you stole my property while under the flag of truce.

Click to shrink...

This line made me feel so much better.

 

[Avernus]

Typos:

The purple has spreading through its limbs to the point that the black is almost totally obscured.

Click to shrink...

"spread"

Full scan gives me… A whole lot of really complicated information which would no doubt be fascinating to the Sivanas but it basically gibberish to me.

Click to shrink...

"is"

If Beautia's appearance really bother you that much, build an automatic plastic chirurgeon or something."

Click to shrink...

"bothers"

 

[Mr Zoat]

@Mr Zoat, did OL ever actually bother researching the Venom Buster formula (or the less powerful components) more after he got it to try and make it less... mutate-y? Because he knows that, unlike Danner or Garrick, that would work on him, he just needs to solve the 'turn into a big rock monster' problem. And unlike those two, he can easily undo the effects of Venom Buster if it doesn't work right. Presumably if you can get even half that power safely, without a horrible mutation, that'd be worth it. I'd take a tenth, really. If something better came along he could always reverse it, after all.

Click to shrink...

Briefly. Essentially, the mutations are how it does what it does. The only way to prevent them is not not let the formula change you at all, which rather defeats the object. The Renegade got the best deal from that he could.

So going by this, OL should be able to use flight, FTL, and all that stuff even at low power. He's not forcibly and inescapably cut off when he hits low percentages, he just needs to specifically override the protections in place. Why then is it always treated as 'hit the minimum power level, and you can't do the thing no matter what'? OL forgetting the ring's power limitations are not absolute, or was this line a mistake? Given OL continued to not use FTL, contact help, or anything else at this point in the story, I'm guessing this line is just wrong.

Click to shrink...

The power requirements are absolutes, he just has the ability to add extra warnings and restrictions.

How would a spy get onto Themyscira? It's magically cloaked/protected from most detection. You generally need magical guidance or luck just to find it.

Click to shrink...

Shower the Aegean with suicide drones and record when they stop transmitting. Then use novel teleportation. Expensive, but doable.

Don't think he needs to have the ring considering it's the unique organelles that give Kryptonians their powers. I'd consider adding those to every cell as intrusive as adding the formula to every cell.

Click to shrink...

A Human cell could sustain them. You'd have to re-engineer the whole body.
Edit: couldn't, I meant couldn't.

 

[Empiricist2]

Next, I form ion engine constructs and blast myself upward, back into warehouse seven.

Click to shrink...

Not sure ion engines should be the construct used here. IRL ion engines are very efficient at converting mass to thrust, but they're really slow about it. Maybe something like a ramjet or fusion thruster?

One, he can see me perfectly well. Gravity sense? I do have mass, after all.

Click to shrink...

When dealing with the cake, phasing was described as hiding your mass from the rest of the universe.

If Beautia's appearance really bother you that much, build an automatic plastic chirurgeon or something."

"Power ring would be easier. That's how you did you, right?"

Click to shrink...

He could just let her use it temporarily. That seems to be the first thing people do when given an orange ring based on the sample size of two.

Don't think he needs to have the ring considering it's the unique organelles that give Kryptonians their powers. I'd consider adding those to every cell as intrusive as adding the formula to every cell.

Click to shrink...

That's what gives them the powers they have, but they're still a different species with different biochemistry.

Obviously he'd have beaten them after Truggs already took his ring, since being tough and strong wouldn't have changed that, but he wouldn't have been at the mercy of Bane and come this close to dying.

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If he was that strong without the ring, Truggs wouldn't have toned down the psychic chaff thing.

 

[Coda]

Wanting a specific thing creates a specific brain pattern, making something that can output the equivalent of the pattern wouldn't need consciousness.

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That's... not how it works at all. Incorporeal things have been clearly shown to be able to exhibit desires. On the other hand, OL himself has been demonstrated to be able to exhibit desires without having an arcane component. On the gripping hand, nonsentient animals have NOT been shown to have significant ability to desire things. (I'm uncertain that Dex-Starr could function on Earth-16.) Whatever it is, there's a metaphysical component to it that transcends either physical OR arcane representation.

Then there's the metaphysical question of what an organ that generates "want" would actually DO.

 

[Tylonius]

Hope the Venusian atmosphere didn't ruin anything important from Paul's arsenal.

The food's done for, but he can replace that.

 

[PaperMache7]

"Power ring would be easier. That's how you did you, right?"

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How whiny.

 

[frommerman]

ASSEMBLE ALL THE CONTRAPTIONS!

 

[Mr Zoat]

Typos: "spread" "is" "bothers"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Not sure ion engines should be the construct used here. IRL ion engines are very efficient at converting mass to thrust, but they're really slow about it. Maybe something like a ramjet or fusion thruster?

Click to shrink...

Like a lot of things, if you use enough power you get larger results.

When dealing with the cake, phasing was described as hiding your mass from the rest of the universe.

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The Huntsman isn't this universe.

 

[Gantradies]

ouch. ok,if being Told your actions are ONE of the prime reasons you are out of consideration for one of the most VERSATILE/all-round powerful tools ever made wont convince you to tone things down, i don't know what will (while remaining civil, i mean),especially considering they are in a position to know how useful a ring -REALLY-is from a perspective not just limited to face-punching.

the thing im Curious about, is Wither the Twin's would have the necessary Mental traits to Safely use a Orange ring Long-term without constant monitoring/ the ring itself being given an imperative to attempt to revert/damp personality changes past a baseline?

actually, would the Latter be Possible/effective, if you were able to maintain your self control for long enough to give the AI Orders to that effect ( i DO recall Paul instructing his Ring-Ai to monitor his mental state for abrupt changes at some point, though i dont remember WHICH timeline this was in, and i MAY just be confused..)

 

[PaperMache7]

A Human cell couldn't sustain them. You'd have to re-engineer the whole body.

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A good to know. Though it's kinda vague on what part of the cell can't handle it. Also it's the kind of pet project he could give to someone.

If he was that strong without the ring, Truggs wouldn't have toned down the psychic chaff thing.

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Why would he have known?

That's... not how it works at all. Incorporeal things have been clearly shown to be able to exhibit desires. On the other hand, OL himself has been demonstrated to be able to exhibit desires without having an arcane component. On the gripping hand, nonsentient animals have NOT been shown to have significant ability to desire things. (I'm uncertain that Dex-Starr could function on Earth-16.) Whatever it is, there's a metaphysical component to it that transcends either physical OR arcane representation.

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That's just an assumption on your part, from what we've seen what seems to matter is that there's something able to produce a emotions, it being brain meat or a soul independent of a body doesn't make much of a difference. And unless Zoat was being misleading, you can very much abuse the way the emotional works, by abusing the way the brain works:

"We are not telepathic, but during this conversation we believe we have identified the patterns in your brain associated with your memories of the incident in question."

"Ahh..."

"We believe that we can forcibly integrate them into your conscious mind. If effect, you would constantly experience your father's death with exactly the raw emotional intensity that you did as a child." His eyes go wide and he takes a half step back. "The Human mind can only sustain the fear response for so long. We doubt that it would take you longer thannn.. two hours? To completely overcome your fears. And then you wouldn't have to worry about-"

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Then there's the metaphysical question of what an organ that generates "want" would actually DO.

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You'd first have to figure out what want actually is, but in theory the organ would output the same "brain wave" that occurs when OL uses wholeness rightly assumed and the ring would pick up on that and heal him.

 

[shepsquared]

How whiny.

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She's right though

 

[PaperMache7]

the thing im Curious about, is Wither the Twin's would have the necessary Mental traits to Safely use a Orange ring Long-term without constant monitoring/ the ring itself being given an imperative to attempt to revert/damp personality changes past a baseline?

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No way in hell, they're mad scientists for a reason. The morons couldn't even wait before stealing his stuff, they reacted in a short minded manner by reacting exactly like people who couldn't control their want.

actually, would the Latter be Possible/effective, if you were able to maintain your self control for long enough to give the AI Orders to that effect ( i DO recall Paul instructing his Ring-Ai to monitor his mental state for abrupt changes at some point, though i dont remember WHICH timeline this was in, and i MAY just be confused..)

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I don't think that's doable, the ring works exactly the way you want, it cannot go against what its user want, even if logically they'd know it's not for the best, they'd still be acting exactly the way they want. As the feeling grew larger and larger it'd overshadow every other emotions. Also if it was that simple, Paul would have done it.

She's right though

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That being a fact is independent of her being whiny.