With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

Iron Roby · Sep 25, 2016

I doubt Oceanus is in any similar position to Erebos. He was the Switzerland of Greek Mythos - old, neutral, out of the way and still going around freely. Maybe he was forced to give away part of his powers to Poseidon by some treaty, but I think it's more likely that his domain was just naturally shrunk by Poseidon's expanding out of Mediterranean along with Atlantians and surfacers exploring the seven seas, ever pushing back the borders of the "unknown world-ocean" that's his domain.

Mr Zoat said:
and Sisyphus might well not be having as bad a time of it as you think.

This looks like a wonderful backstory for a "World's Strongest" muscleman type Greek superhero. And since, unlike in Marvel, the local Heracles is a total jerk, then there's a perfect opening to fill.

backgroundnoise · Sep 25, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
Yes, but it probably isn't urgent. They've been down there a while, and Sisyphus might well not be having as bad a time of it as you think.

...Sisyphus is going to be INSANELY strong by the time he gets out. And Hades thoroughly relieved.

Mr Zoat · Sep 25, 2016

Empiricist2 said:
It doesn't sound like he actually fired on the last visit.

He was firing during the 'nearly'. I appreciate that it wasn't obvious but his attention was on going faster rather than his shooting.

daimahou · Sep 25, 2016

backgroundnoise said:
...Sisyphus is going to be INSANELY strong by the time he gets out. And Hades thoroughly relieved.

...

Sisyphus: What did I do to get this powerful? I rolled a boulder up a hill/mountain. Every single day!

BRBonobo · Sep 25, 2016

daimahou said:
...

Sisyphus: What did I do to get this powerful? I rolled a boulder up a hill/mountain. Every single day!

I wonder if he has any hair left.

Angle · Sep 25, 2016

Lordswedish said:
Did you mean Deva (devastation) instead of Rhea? Rhea is the wife of Cronus and the daughter of Ouranus and Gaea so I don't think the way she was made has anything to do with what's happening here.

Anyway, in this chapter it was revealed that Deva, being the evil (well, titanic) version of Wonder Woman, was created by Cronus using a piece of Cottus (Gyges' brother) to tap into the power of Gaea as she has the ability to make clay people. Considering that Cottus was apparently involved with making Wonder Woman it's safe to say that she was made in the same way, though someone other than Cronus was likely supplying the power. Now all we need to know is who supplied the power. I doubt Hippolyta did all this herself without any divine assistance or knowledge but at the same time it's unlikely that all the gods know about it because then it wouldn't be much of a secret.

Basically, Cottus was angry because divine secrets/politics and while it's clear that he didn't "sire" Diana we still need to know if there was anyone else involved and who they were.

Yup, you are correct.

Norgarth · Sep 25, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
They never claimed to be all powerful, and it is implied that not all of them are overcharged in this way.

I think you misread his post. he didn't say 'the all powerful Olympians', he said 'all the powerful Olympians'.

Lordswedish said:
Anyway, in this chapter it was revealed that Deva, being the evil (well, titanic) version of Wonder Woman, was created by Cronus using a piece of Cottus (Gyges' brother) to tap into the power of Gaea as she has the ability to make clay people. Considering that Cottus was apparently involved with making Wonder Woman it's safe to say that she was made in the same way, though someone other than Cronus was likely supplying the power. Now all we need to know is who supplied the power. I doubt Hippolyta did all this herself without any divine assistance or knowledge but at the same time it's unlikely that all the gods know about it because then it wouldn't be much of a secret.

Basically, Cottus was angry because divine secrets/politics and while it's clear that he didn't "sire" Diana we still need to know if there was anyone else involved and who they were.

This maybe part of an outdated origin story, but wasn't the clay sculpture that became Diana brought to life by the Goddesses at Hippolyta's request/prayers for a child?

Mr Zoat · Sep 25, 2016

Norgarth said:
I think you misread his post. he didn't say 'the all powerful Olympians', he said 'all the powerful Olympians'.

Ah, my mistake then. You the audience don't know for certain exactly who does and who doesn't, but it isn't a bad assumption to make based upon the available evidence.

HanEmpire · Sep 25, 2016

@Mr Zoat: How did the League respond to Paul's following suggestion?

Mr Zoat said:
"I may be pushing my luck here, but how do you feel about me coming back in four months, gutting the green light systems from the Watchtower and bringing it up to full operating capacity with an orange battery?"

random_npc · Sep 25, 2016

Empiricist2 said:
So someone stole some of Gaea's power through Cottus in order to make Diana. Suppose it makes sense. The question now is who did it, how Alkyone knew about this, and why no one else does. If the original motives were sinister, then those goals have obviously failed because WW isn't exactly villainous. If they weren't sinister, why hide them? Seems odd all around.

that seems likely. Keep in mind there appear to be multiple actors involved, if they were working at cross purposes it's probable that at least some of them failed to achieve there aims. I suspect the lasso of truth was given to wonder woman to break any implanted commands, since it's been shown to disrupt mind control in the past. So WW was created for nefarious ends, but those ends were likely subverted.

Mr Zoat · Sep 25, 2016

HanEmpire said:
@Mr Zoat: How did the League respond to Paul's following suggestion?

They said they'd think about it.

random_npc said:
that seems likely. Keep in mind there appear to be multiple actors involved, if they were working at cross purposes it's probable that at least some of them failed to achieve there aims. I suspect the lasso of truth was given to wonder woman to break any implanted commands, since it's been shown to disrupt mind control in the past. So WW was created for nefarious ends, but those ends were likely subverted.

Nearly.

Winged One · Sep 25, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
They said they'd think about it.

And what did they conclude after they thought about it, smartass?

Undead bear · Sep 25, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
They said they'd think about it.

Nearly.

Foreshadowing!!!!! very important comment by author.

Mr Zoat · Sep 25, 2016

Winged One said:
And what did they conclude after they thought about it, smartass?

That it wouldn't be wise to come to a firm decision until a firm offer was on the table. They trust the SI but they don't know the Controllers.

Empiricist2 · Sep 25, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
That it wouldn't be wise to come to a firm decision until a firm offer was on the table. They trust the SI but they don't know the Controllers.

Not knowing about any potential drawbacks to the technology, it would be silly for them to give a definitive answer. "Breaks in the presence of strong emotions other than avarice" would be a rather important thing to know about before signing up.

Silverias · Sep 25, 2016

Things I want for christmas: An Omake of Lex being all conflicted after OL's diplomatic "success" with him.

PaperMache7 · Sep 25, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
That it wouldn't be wise to come to a firm decision until a firm offer was on the table. They trust the SI but they don't know the Controllers.

What was the reason for OL wanting to be subservient to them again?

Empiricist2 · Sep 25, 2016

GodKiller999 said:
What was the reason for OL wanting to be subservient to them again?

Edit: realized you meant the Controllers and not the League.

I got the impression it wasn't so much subservient as working towards similar goals and benefitting from each other's strengths. OL's already mentioned that he thinks the problem with the GLC is that the Guardians are the only ones able to make decisions for the Corps as a whole, when they can't get any more Guardians. Obviously the Controllers won't be put in actual control of the OLC.

So the Controllers will give the OLC experience, their tech database, the ability to forge orange and possibly other rings/lanterns, and possibly a base of operations. The OLC will give the Controllers a more flexible way of furthering their goals, able to grow to meet the challenges they face. Also, the Ophidian returning and getting the central power battery back will put OL in a pretty favorable light.

Silverias said:
Things I want for christmas: An Omake of Lex being all conflicted after OL's diplomatic "success" with him.

If you really want it to be part of the story, you're perfectly able to write it yourself. Zoat's been fairly receptive both times I've wanted to write a canon omake. It may take multiple drafts before it both complies with what Zoat wants to be a part of his world and also is satisfactory to you, but if the core idea is sound it's rewarding to make your mark on the story.

I mean, at this point it's pretty spectacularly unlikely Zoat would write an update from Lex's perspective about that event, given it happened more than an episode ago.

Norgarth · Sep 25, 2016

I'm pretty sure @GodKiller999 was referring to The Controllers, not the Justice League.

I believe OL's reasoning goes:
1) The Controllers are interested in founding their own space police force (demonstrated by their creation of the Darkstars and the Effigy Corps)
2) as a Maltusian offshoot they have the tech to handle the Emotional Spectrum and create Lanterns and Rings
3) they are willing to use the Orange Light (and attempted to do so in the comics although they were unaware of/unprepared for Larfleeze)
4) By approaching them with a deal, he believes they will be willing to give him a fair bit of authority in the new Corps.
5) his experience in guiding his Avarice into useful directions without going full Larfleeze (You never go full Larfleeze) and his relationship with the Ophidian should also help.

there may be more reasons that I'm forgetting

PaperMache7 · Sep 25, 2016

Norgarth said:
I'm pretty sure @GodKiller999 was referring to The Controllers, not the Justice League.

I believe OL's reasoning goes:
1) The Controllers are interested in founding their own space police force (demonstrated by their creation of the Darkstars and the Effigy Corps)
2) as a Maltusian offshoot they have the tech to handle the Emotional Spectrum and create Lanterns and Rings
3) they are willing to use the Orange Light (and attempted to do so in the comics although they were unaware of/unprepared for Larfleeze)
4) By approaching them with a deal, he believes they will be willing to give him a fair bit of authority in the new Corps.
5) his experience in guiding his Avarice into useful directions without going full Larfleeze (You never go full Larfleeze) and his relationship with the Ophidian should also help.

there may be more reasons that I'm forgetting

I see that as valid reasons to work with them, not for them though.

sockmonkey · Sep 25, 2016

Wonder Woman has met Gaia right? So if she was made without Gaia's knowing participation she would have been all "Who the hell are you?" when they met.

stsword · Sep 25, 2016

GodKiller999 said:
I see that as valid reasons to work with them, not for them though.

They bring legitimacy. They already have the darkstars, Zoat has mentioned that, which means that alien civilizations, at least some of them, recognize the Controllers' authority as independent law enforcement.

OL? Well what legitimacy do you think he has? That's hes a member of a species that still uses internal combustion engines? That he's an orange lantern? Either people have never ever heard the term, or they'll expect him to act like Larfleeze.

Ganurath · Sep 25, 2016

GodKiller999 said:
I see that as valid reasons to work with them, not for them though.

Because Zoat doesn't have the anti-authority boner many of the readers enjoy stroking?

PaperMache7 · Sep 26, 2016

stsword said:
They bring legitimacy. They already have the darkstars, Zoat has mentioned that, which means that alien civilizations, at least some of them, recognize the Controllers' authority as independent law enforcement.

OL? Well what legitimacy do you think he has? That's hes a member of a species that still uses internal combustion engines? That he's an orange lantern? Either people have never ever heard the term, or they'll expect him to act like Larfleeze.

What would he need the legitimacy for exactly? I mean sure it's useful, but unless he has goals that need that right now, it doesn't seem very important. Plus he has a bunch of things that could bring him legitimacy.

Ganurath said:
Because Zoat doesn't have the anti-authority boner many of the readers enjoy stroking?

There's a difference between being fine with authority and going out of your way to look for one.

Silverias · Sep 26, 2016

GodKiller999 said:
What would he need the legitimacy for exactly? I mean sure it's useful, but unless he has goals that need that right now, it doesn't seem very important. Plus he has a bunch of things that could bring him legitimacy.

There's a difference between being fine with authority and going out of your way to look for one.

OL doesn't want to run the corp, but he wants the corp to exist.

He is going to help the controllers do that.

He wants to be a part of the newly formed OLC

The Controllers will run the OLC, that OL wants to be a part of.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

Getting Too Old For This...

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Delicious

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