Victory Bay? As a nod towards Dark Crusade?
Something lion related?
The Mallus Compliance (Space Marines in Warhammer Fantasy - Chapter Master/Empire Building)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
Something lion related?
- Location
- yorkshire
lionborn city
- Location
- Norway
I lean toward (something) Landing, though not Emperor's Landing.
Acheron's Landing? Angel's Landing? Honor's Landing? Serenkai's Landing?
Also I look forward to seeing whether the duke is like dead dead, or just 'removed from play' game-dead and might recover.
Acheron's Landing? Angel's Landing? Honor's Landing? Serenkai's Landing?
Also I look forward to seeing whether the duke is like dead dead, or just 'removed from play' game-dead and might recover.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
So tallying up all the points the Bret cost 187 points. That's Lord, Grail Vow, Barded Warhorse, Shield, Virtue of Confidence. If you were talking a 2000 point army then 187 isn't a massive amount, but perhaps as part of that army there's more infantry or a powerful wizard or some hero characters etc.
Now the Bret doesn't get his horse because he's not going to declare a duel, then wander off to get it. In turn if this is a mounted duel then does Amra go off to climb onto his Land Raider? No that would be an utter farce. Also though I wanted to match them up on foot, as I've noted previously if it's a matter of each character using their full capabilities then Amra could bring a lascannon or something.
Interestingly looking at some of the other Brets, Loen has regen from his blessing actually. However, the Lord in this instance has no magic item he could have taken which would have given him any AP. Settra had the Blessed Blade which was AP, but all the Bret items are either reroll failed hits or strength buffs, they wouldn't help the Bret get through Amra's relic armour with his +2 save.
(As far as I'm aware, not having played WFB much, simply adding more strength doesn't automatically get you through armour?)
But apart from that, yes a duke on a diplomatic mission is unlikely to bring his whole armoury. If he's got the Special Sword of +3 back home then he'd use that normally, but he was there to visit the bretonnian colony, maybe do some diplo talks or something or visit a grail chapel, not to go to war.
For naming, I'm open to suggestions, just consider the Lions' cultural background, both astartes and otherwise. IMO victory bay or dorns landing are very dull. You could look at Egyptian or african mythical places
- Location
- Utrecht
Having higher strength reduces your enemy's armour save. Each point after 3 gives a - 1,so it's pretty useful against someone worth a 2+ save.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Huh, fair enough I suppose. I think someone mentioned treating SM armour as modifying that rule, meaning it would only start reducing once the enemy got to 6 strength in the first place. No matter how hard it's swung I can't really see a mundane sword (unless like a gromril one etc) getting through power armour except for things like joints
- Location
- yorkshire
i think even Gromril would struggle
- Location
- Utrecht
That was me
. In a d6 based system, you need to think of creative ways to distinguish between the best fantasy armour and the average space marine armour, but there's not a lot of granularity to play around in.
That's fair compared to a space marine's existence is 24/7 where they go.
I know one. Name it after their lost homeworld. You know the Southland might just be similar in climate to find some lions too and local hunters who too may resemble the hunters the lions recruit from their lost homeworld.
Wait this is what you were referring to? They are also accidental envoys?
You seriously need to use the council at Rivendell as reference because it paints a hilarious picture as the Norscans came to raid but were welcomed in by armored giants.
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Well that Grail Knight was clearly too dumb to live, leaving behind his best gear when traveling anywhere on Mallus.
- Location
- yorkshire
and challenging a chapter master of the angels of death
I mean, Brettonia does have at least one sword that ignores armor, the Questing Sword. And other swords that do stuff like increasing strength, which is useful for these sorts of duels, or forcing armor rerolls, or giving the user Killing Blow. And there are items that make you immune to killing blow. And then there are generic magic items like potions of strength or speed or the like, and sundry other things. He could have made this closer if he hadn't been stupid.
- Location
- yorkshire
if so we did the brets a favour
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
To be fair I'm sure he didn't know we could move as fast as him in heavier-looking armor, with the context of what he would have likely encountered in his life he probably thought he was only fighting the equivalent of a black ork. That said challenging a new foe you've never seen before without doing anything to ascertain his capabilities is indeed dumb, maybe arrogance at play?
X vs Y, an interesting but rather flawed topic
- Location
- United Kingdom
So to address some of the above in a longer form, I'd like to draw attention more generally to a few points around verses match ups.
I do indeed roll for certain experiments. One of my objectives for this story is to combine the universes sensibly, so I'm having a go at combining or at least testing whether the different versions of the tabletop game can also combine.
I would however like to highlight that in terms of lore and narrative, these combinations and indeed versus bouts in general are very flawed. We've been over the issue of ward saves before, indeed, +4 Iron Halos and +4 godly blessings are not equal, but there's more points around context.
To use a real world example, often various tanks are compared. People will compare the size of the gun, the speed of the tank, the thickness of the armour and so on. These are usually irrelevant in tank battles where the first tank to fire usually wins. But, you say, perhaps then we should compare the optics of each tank to determine the better one? Well yes the ancillary equipment is important too, the T34 was superior to various German tanks it encountered but due to a lack of radio equipment in the Soviet tanks lots of T34s got knocked out.
'T34 vs Panzer IV', just like 'Space Marine Vs Whoever' are inherently artificial match ups. A tank doesn't wait around and then face an enemy tank in isolation. These scenarios assume that either party are facing the other, devoid of outside interference, ignorant of political or doctrinal context. For example, on tabletop a Chapter Master can call down a strength 10 orbital bombardment on his enemies, which would indeed be far outside the context of a duel.
In terms of tanks, we might look to logistic, doctrine, training, morale, and a number of other factors that are relatively infrequently considered when discussing tank battles. Yes X tank might have a 76mm gun, whereas T tank has a 90mm gun, but if X tank is produced in far greater numbers then it won't just be one tank then will it? Can Y tank actually get to the battlefield or will its final drives wear out 200km out from the factory? Is it possibly to transport X tank by rail or does it have to go by muddy quagmires which slow it down? Is the grand strategy and procurement, recruitment or maintenance framework to ensure that X tank gets to the battlefield adequate for the purposes of combat?
Thought experiments are interesting but they remain flawed. In the case of combats in this quest I would encourage you to think about the individuals, as I'll relatively seldom be simulating mass combat. What magical items or mechanisms does the combatant had access to? Would these be equipped to their person at all times in all situations? Probably not. For example, say there's a duel in a banquet hall during a feast, while this might be terribly dramatic, it's very unlikely that one figure will say 'wait a moment friend let me go get my potion of strength before we start'. If there's someone who's on a diplomatic mission, they're probably going to be wearing their diplo+ gear not their murderdeathkill hat.
Similarly, are there narrative reasons for a particular character to not deploy one of their capabilities? Might they have a particular strategy in mind, or be redistricting themselves for some reason? Returning to our tank example, sometimes new weapons are guarded closely and only deployed in larger numbers so they have a strategic effect, not just a tactical one.
I've writing this because I've got a particular battle planned at the end of the arc and I'd prefer not to get 3 pages of comments from people who've read it and found it objectionable and decided to roll their faces across their keyboards to express their upset at some particular aspect of the event. That's pretty annoying, so yea, have a think about it and discuss things reasonably. If you still find it so egregious, you're welcome to remark as such, indeed, if you're persuasive, perhaps I'll change my mind.
I do indeed roll for certain experiments. One of my objectives for this story is to combine the universes sensibly, so I'm having a go at combining or at least testing whether the different versions of the tabletop game can also combine.
I would however like to highlight that in terms of lore and narrative, these combinations and indeed versus bouts in general are very flawed. We've been over the issue of ward saves before, indeed, +4 Iron Halos and +4 godly blessings are not equal, but there's more points around context.
To use a real world example, often various tanks are compared. People will compare the size of the gun, the speed of the tank, the thickness of the armour and so on. These are usually irrelevant in tank battles where the first tank to fire usually wins. But, you say, perhaps then we should compare the optics of each tank to determine the better one? Well yes the ancillary equipment is important too, the T34 was superior to various German tanks it encountered but due to a lack of radio equipment in the Soviet tanks lots of T34s got knocked out.
'T34 vs Panzer IV', just like 'Space Marine Vs Whoever' are inherently artificial match ups. A tank doesn't wait around and then face an enemy tank in isolation. These scenarios assume that either party are facing the other, devoid of outside interference, ignorant of political or doctrinal context. For example, on tabletop a Chapter Master can call down a strength 10 orbital bombardment on his enemies, which would indeed be far outside the context of a duel.
In terms of tanks, we might look to logistic, doctrine, training, morale, and a number of other factors that are relatively infrequently considered when discussing tank battles. Yes X tank might have a 76mm gun, whereas T tank has a 90mm gun, but if X tank is produced in far greater numbers then it won't just be one tank then will it? Can Y tank actually get to the battlefield or will its final drives wear out 200km out from the factory? Is it possibly to transport X tank by rail or does it have to go by muddy quagmires which slow it down? Is the grand strategy and procurement, recruitment or maintenance framework to ensure that X tank gets to the battlefield adequate for the purposes of combat?
Thought experiments are interesting but they remain flawed. In the case of combats in this quest I would encourage you to think about the individuals, as I'll relatively seldom be simulating mass combat. What magical items or mechanisms does the combatant had access to? Would these be equipped to their person at all times in all situations? Probably not. For example, say there's a duel in a banquet hall during a feast, while this might be terribly dramatic, it's very unlikely that one figure will say 'wait a moment friend let me go get my potion of strength before we start'. If there's someone who's on a diplomatic mission, they're probably going to be wearing their diplo+ gear not their murderdeathkill hat.
Similarly, are there narrative reasons for a particular character to not deploy one of their capabilities? Might they have a particular strategy in mind, or be redistricting themselves for some reason? Returning to our tank example, sometimes new weapons are guarded closely and only deployed in larger numbers so they have a strategic effect, not just a tactical one.
I've writing this because I've got a particular battle planned at the end of the arc and I'd prefer not to get 3 pages of comments from people who've read it and found it objectionable and decided to roll their faces across their keyboards to express their upset at some particular aspect of the event. That's pretty annoying, so yea, have a think about it and discuss things reasonably. If you still find it so egregious, you're welcome to remark as such, indeed, if you're persuasive, perhaps I'll change my mind.
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm sorry trying to do a dive on Eygptian history but New Alexandria is already taken by both Bungie/343 Studio's AAAND a probably self obsessed Pensylvania borough. Pi- Ramses ('' house of ramses") where in we could replace the Ramses part to signify a different ruler is a cool format but I can't think of any good candidates off the top of my head. Pi Alcadizaar would be really cool but we haven't done enough cultural reasearch to know that name as far as I know.
On the more 40k side, New Elysium would indeed sound cool and would be far better. There is no way we are referencing either Krieg or Maccragge. Since even though they were both cut off and reincorporated one is a nightmare and the other is better than what we can probably achieve.
I still think Dorns Landing is the best name proposed so far.
EDIT: If we ended up with a third place in the Imperium named Macharia that would also amuse me but if the lions wanted to honor the guardsmen it would still probably end up being something more like Machariop()lous
On the more 40k side, New Elysium would indeed sound cool and would be far better. There is no way we are referencing either Krieg or Maccragge. Since even though they were both cut off and reincorporated one is a nightmare and the other is better than what we can probably achieve.
I still think Dorns Landing is the best name proposed so far.
EDIT: If we ended up with a third place in the Imperium named Macharia that would also amuse me but if the lions wanted to honor the guardsmen it would still probably end up being something more like Machariop()lous
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- Location
- United Kingdom
I'm thinking 'Pharos', after the lighthouse of Alexandria. It's suitably Egyptian but also implies the giving of light and enlightenment.
Careful though. The Lions may already know about the "Pharos" in Ultramar.
- Location
- United Kingdom
wtf is this since when did birdboy become emperor? is this some AU line of books they're doing?
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I think they may be talking about that brief but extremely embarassing period in which the Imperium Secundus was established as a thing when sanguninus and rowboat thought the emps was dead.
The Artefact itself that gave the book covering that period it's name actually seems really cool and appropriately thematic for a chapter that cared so much about avoiding needless civilian death.
warhammer40k.fandom.com
Edit: Of course there's the minor detail of xenotech and attracting tyranids, but the base concept in itself was very very far from the worst idea's the Imperium ever had, I don't think they knew what tyranids were yet and also barely knew what Necrons were at the time either so it made sense for what they dealt with.
Edit 2: Did more reading, The actually stupid part is that Cawl thinks he can close the maledictum using this beacon somehow now that it no longer has a c'tan powering it. I don't know how he even expects to turn back on to be frank.
Edit 3: Nevermind this is an example of me being stupid and lacking comprehension, he just wants to replicate the things material properties, which have nothing to do with closing rifts, still not sure that's even possible without the c'tan though.
The Artefact itself that gave the book covering that period it's name actually seems really cool and appropriately thematic for a chapter that cared so much about avoiding needless civilian death.
Pharos
The Pharos was a pre-Imperial biotechnological device created by an unknown xenos civilisation later identified as the Necrons that harnessed the psychic energy of empathy to aid navigation through the Warp, much like the later Astronomican, though on a far smaller scale. The Pharos was far less...
warhammer40k.fandom.com
Edit: Of course there's the minor detail of xenotech and attracting tyranids, but the base concept in itself was very very far from the worst idea's the Imperium ever had, I don't think they knew what tyranids were yet and also barely knew what Necrons were at the time either so it made sense for what they dealt with.
Edit 2: Did more reading, The actually stupid part is that Cawl thinks he can close the maledictum using this beacon somehow now that it no longer has a c'tan powering it. I don't know how he even expects to turn back on to be frank.
Edit 3: Nevermind this is an example of me being stupid and lacking comprehension, he just wants to replicate the things material properties, which have nothing to do with closing rifts, still not sure that's even possible without the c'tan though.
Last edited:
Death in the Mountains
- Location
- United Kingdom
Death in the Mountains
D'leh, Scout Marine of the Celestial Lions, knelt atop a mountain, his camo-cloak concealing him from view even with the brilliance of his golden amour.
"Grant me the sight of the eagle, the calm of the breeze, the patience of a saint and the skill to smite the foe from afar." the young man prayed, his rifle butt against the stone, fist over his heart.
"Make ready." came the order from Sergeant Sido, the veteran recovered from the injuries he took in the jungle, his back and torso now mostly bionics, whirling gently as he moved.
D'leh stood, going to his perch above the horde of mutants below.
The group had been identified by the previous aerial reconnaissance and pict-files taken by the 10th Company years before, several thousand daemon worshippers camped in crude dwellings in a mountain valley in the west of Araby, frequently raiding passes and the coastal cities of that area. After due consideration the Chapter Master had ordered their destruction, and D'leh was proud his squad had been chosen to deliver the Emperor's judgement.
Since the year in the jungle the Scout had found his faith renewed. He'd taken Sido's words to heart, setting himself to his tasks with diligence that his trainers had commended. He was the finest Scout in the 10th Company, and soon he would complete his training and become in truth a Battle-Brother.
D'leh looked down at the writhing mass below him. They were high up, a thousand metres or more above the horde, yet even without his rifle's scope he could see the disgusting variation in the physicality of the creatures below. While some might have passed as humans once, others were scaled and furred, great horns and frills growing from their heads, some with manes or clawed hands, the mocking union of beast and man.
"I have the target, Brother-Sergeant." D'leh reported, the fiery runes on his rifle's scope centred over a large mutant's horned head.
The catechisms of worship were spoken, the Scout's wargear sanctified, the craft of death elevated to a blinding focus in his mind. The others of the squad made the final checks to their own weapons, incense and iron, blood and the Emperor.
The words came unconsciously to D'leh's mind, his faith, notable among his brothers, giving him strength. While most Space Marines viewed the Emperor as an exceptional man and inspiration, rather than a god to be worshipped, the Celestial Lions' Chapter Cult was flexible enough that D'leh's memories of his childhood had been exempt from the ordinary mind-scrub protocols. Turning his thoughts to the task, he spoke the Chant of Accuracy, "God-Emperor! Guide the flight, watch the target, take the unworthy's life!"
"Good initiative D'leh." Sido said quietly beside him, evidently having heard his prayer even without it being broadcast through the helmet's speakers. "All Scouts, vox-casters to maximum, recite the Prayer of Hatred with each shot. I shall lead your volleys."
Acknowledgements by vox came swiftly in from the nine other Scouts dotted around the escarpment.
"To be Unclean." Sido's voice boomed.
The beast-witch in D'leh's scope ceased it's chanting, knife raised over a sacrifice to its dark masters.
Then the creature's head exploded.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" The Scouts roared, their voices magnified a hundred-fold, lashing the enemy with waves of sound as more of them died.
"To be Impure." Sido intoned.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" The Scouts repeated.
D'leh guided his shots to the Beastmen leaders, picking one off at a time.
"To be Abhorred." the Sergeant's voice rumbled through the mountains.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" came the chant again, Scout Arif letting loose with his Heavy Bolter, a thousand rounds a minute cutting swathes through the packed masses of the mutants.
"To be Reviled." the shout went.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" and D'leh saw pebbles shaking at the vox blasts, the mutant horde below utterly panicked.
"To be Hunted." Sido's auspex picked out priority targets for them as he spoke.
"That is the fate of the Mutant!" ten voices as one, sweeping their foes away.
"To be Purged." a rocket screamed down, the frak warhead busting apart, shredding one enormous bovine creature with four blade bearing arms.
"That is the fate of the Mutant!" D'leh's hearts thundered as he fired, walking his shots through the masses of Beastmen trying to escape the deathdealers, sending them fleeing back toward their foul settlement.
"To be Cleansed." More fled, yet the forests on the mountains' slopes were no match for the bolter rounds of the Scouts' weapons and D'leh's auspex picked one out, huddled behind a tree, his mutated skeleton clear even through the tree as the advanced sensors identified him.
"That is the fate of the Mutant!" The round took the hiding creature, blasting the tree in half, the splinters flying into those around the beast.
There was a moment's calm, the bolters fell silent, the heavy weapon operators changing the belts and magazines of their implements.
The Chant had concluded, yet their enemy still lived.
Sido observed the carnage, the Beastmen fighting each other as they tried to escape the invisible death. "They know fear." the Sergeant remarked, his voice cold, "Let them know terror. Mark your targets and fire on your own initiative. By the Emperor, show them no mercy."
D'leh, Scout Marine of the Celestial Lions, knelt atop a mountain, his camo-cloak concealing him from view even with the brilliance of his golden amour.
"Grant me the sight of the eagle, the calm of the breeze, the patience of a saint and the skill to smite the foe from afar." the young man prayed, his rifle butt against the stone, fist over his heart.
"Make ready." came the order from Sergeant Sido, the veteran recovered from the injuries he took in the jungle, his back and torso now mostly bionics, whirling gently as he moved.
D'leh stood, going to his perch above the horde of mutants below.
The group had been identified by the previous aerial reconnaissance and pict-files taken by the 10th Company years before, several thousand daemon worshippers camped in crude dwellings in a mountain valley in the west of Araby, frequently raiding passes and the coastal cities of that area. After due consideration the Chapter Master had ordered their destruction, and D'leh was proud his squad had been chosen to deliver the Emperor's judgement.
Since the year in the jungle the Scout had found his faith renewed. He'd taken Sido's words to heart, setting himself to his tasks with diligence that his trainers had commended. He was the finest Scout in the 10th Company, and soon he would complete his training and become in truth a Battle-Brother.
D'leh looked down at the writhing mass below him. They were high up, a thousand metres or more above the horde, yet even without his rifle's scope he could see the disgusting variation in the physicality of the creatures below. While some might have passed as humans once, others were scaled and furred, great horns and frills growing from their heads, some with manes or clawed hands, the mocking union of beast and man.
"I have the target, Brother-Sergeant." D'leh reported, the fiery runes on his rifle's scope centred over a large mutant's horned head.
The catechisms of worship were spoken, the Scout's wargear sanctified, the craft of death elevated to a blinding focus in his mind. The others of the squad made the final checks to their own weapons, incense and iron, blood and the Emperor.
The words came unconsciously to D'leh's mind, his faith, notable among his brothers, giving him strength. While most Space Marines viewed the Emperor as an exceptional man and inspiration, rather than a god to be worshipped, the Celestial Lions' Chapter Cult was flexible enough that D'leh's memories of his childhood had been exempt from the ordinary mind-scrub protocols. Turning his thoughts to the task, he spoke the Chant of Accuracy, "God-Emperor! Guide the flight, watch the target, take the unworthy's life!"
"Good initiative D'leh." Sido said quietly beside him, evidently having heard his prayer even without it being broadcast through the helmet's speakers. "All Scouts, vox-casters to maximum, recite the Prayer of Hatred with each shot. I shall lead your volleys."
Acknowledgements by vox came swiftly in from the nine other Scouts dotted around the escarpment.
"To be Unclean." Sido's voice boomed.
The beast-witch in D'leh's scope ceased it's chanting, knife raised over a sacrifice to its dark masters.
Then the creature's head exploded.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" The Scouts roared, their voices magnified a hundred-fold, lashing the enemy with waves of sound as more of them died.
"To be Impure." Sido intoned.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" The Scouts repeated.
D'leh guided his shots to the Beastmen leaders, picking one off at a time.
"To be Abhorred." the Sergeant's voice rumbled through the mountains.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" came the chant again, Scout Arif letting loose with his Heavy Bolter, a thousand rounds a minute cutting swathes through the packed masses of the mutants.
"To be Reviled." the shout went.
"That is the mark of the Mutant!" and D'leh saw pebbles shaking at the vox blasts, the mutant horde below utterly panicked.
"To be Hunted." Sido's auspex picked out priority targets for them as he spoke.
"That is the fate of the Mutant!" ten voices as one, sweeping their foes away.
"To be Purged." a rocket screamed down, the frak warhead busting apart, shredding one enormous bovine creature with four blade bearing arms.
"That is the fate of the Mutant!" D'leh's hearts thundered as he fired, walking his shots through the masses of Beastmen trying to escape the deathdealers, sending them fleeing back toward their foul settlement.
"To be Cleansed." More fled, yet the forests on the mountains' slopes were no match for the bolter rounds of the Scouts' weapons and D'leh's auspex picked one out, huddled behind a tree, his mutated skeleton clear even through the tree as the advanced sensors identified him.
"That is the fate of the Mutant!" The round took the hiding creature, blasting the tree in half, the splinters flying into those around the beast.
There was a moment's calm, the bolters fell silent, the heavy weapon operators changing the belts and magazines of their implements.
The Chant had concluded, yet their enemy still lived.
Sido observed the carnage, the Beastmen fighting each other as they tried to escape the invisible death. "They know fear." the Sergeant remarked, his voice cold, "Let them know terror. Mark your targets and fire on your own initiative. By the Emperor, show them no mercy."
- Location
- yorkshire
I love the mark of the mutant chant its so Warhammer and it will not be out of place in this world if man or woman from the empire hears it they would not bat a eye
- Location
- United Kingdom
I found a pdf of the Uplifting Primer and it's excellent for that sort of thing
- Location
- yorkshire
I have the book the prayers are really amusing and interesting