- Location
- Northern Ireland, UK
[X] Plan Yellow
The Mallus Compliance (Space Marines in Warhammer Fantasy - Chapter Master/Empire Building)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
- Location
- Norway
well, partly, you're the GM and you have a better idea of what might be relevant to us, but also, see following:
The classic example here is Cornelius Evazan. I don't expect you to know his name; he's a minor figure in the Mos Eisley Cantina in Star Wars. He's the guy who threatens/boasts "We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems." to Luke Skywalker and has a whole three lines. We don't learn what he's wanted for. He never shows up again and is completely irrelevant to the plot of the movie. But precisely in that irrelevance, he helps to give the sense that Luke is interacting with in-universe real people who have their own lives, not plot-devices or game-mechanics. When I say "abrupt cut to the options", I'm gesturing at something like that, or rather, the lack of it. I'd like to see turn posts with a little more insight into what our protagonist is doing and thinking other than resolving votes for action options, as well as the state of some things that aren't covered in an Informational post update.
I may be having difficulty communicating what I meant here, so instead I figured I'd try writing a snippet examples of the kind of thing I'd like to see in the turn posts. Feel free to recycle any bits you might like.
...word comes that many of the Imperial Guard have taken to twiddling their long-range auspexes and vox-casters when they're off duty, in an attempt to pick up whatever external communications there might be on this (otherwise?) Feral World. Asking one of the Guardsmen reveals there's a rumor going around about a regressed colony or earlier crash-landing that might have had advanced signaling equipment. While no such thing showed up on orbital examination of the planet, the fleet wasn't exactly in a great position to take scans when you first entered orbit, so you can't entirely rule out the possibility. On the other hand, if it exists it must be faint and small, otherwise it would surely have been noticed already. The matter doesn't seem worth your attention, but:
- you give the men a verbal commendation for dutifully assisting in the search for fellow Imperials.
- it feels like it should be the job of the Mechanicus to do that. Eh, whatever.
- you give the men a small reprimand for exposing themselves to potentially unknown listeners and broadcasters.
(not meant as a vote, but possible ways the GM could characterize the Chapter Master/voter avatar)
- Location
- United Kingdom
Ahhh, yes I get what you mean. I thought that you meant cut as in 'reduction in the number of actions' or similar but yes that makes sense. I don't disagree with you, but I'm also trying to differentiate between the turn chapters and the results chapters, as well as the interludes. I find this works well to differentiate discussion because otherwise people react to chapters but don't vote. But I do acknowledge your point.
I can certainly deploy some of this, and it is indeed reliant on what people want to know. People wanted to know about the timeline so I wrote the chronicle interlude which tells you where you are in the timeline. People were talking about the scouts so I wrote the scout interlude. That showed how the individual was questioning their faith, the response of the sergeant, that sort of thing. I could expand out any of these interludes, I could hvae had 5k on the scout hunting the carnosaur which killed his squad or dealing with the serfs or any number of things like that, but I'm also dealing with trying not to write a 10k update which contributes little to the general work. In my other quest I wrote such an update, with I thikn 5k on one action and it really killed by interest in it because I'd put so much effort into it. That's why I'll occasionally rely on telling you 'the mordant was salvaged' rather than having a techpriest's perspective as he incants the rite of whatever.
But yes, I can write such things, so I can put some bits in the next chapter about those sorts of points. I'm pretty happy to take requests on that.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
This is a friendly reminder that the lizardmen are important and actively prevent both the advance of the chaos wastes from the poles, and buoy the vortex. Both these activities prevent the transformation of Malus into a daemon world.
This is important. For us, because we are now stuck on Malus, and for everyone else who lives here.
This is important. For us, because we are now stuck on Malus, and for everyone else who lives here.
- Location
- yorkshire
why is plan yellow attacking the lizerdmen that kind of a bad idea
- Location
- USA
Becaues the MCs/PCs are not all knowing. So they are going to do some stupid shit.
- Location
- yorkshire
We are going to regret this
- Location
- yorkshire
i just don't want an angry slann to kill us so urly in the quest
- Location
- United Kingdom
Guys, you can just... not vote for the plan you don't want to win? It's got like 3 votes currently. Yes it's in character for the space marines to want to kill xenos, that's why the action is there, but it's also been demonstrated that they're not immediately hostile and are primarily interested in defending their territory. This isn't an active threat of a lizardman army coming to kill you. If you decide you want to support the plan, great, vote for it, if you don't support it, vote for something else.
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- Location
- USA
We are and its going to be fun.
pFTT Nan. I want us to get our asses handed to us. Should show we are not top dog.
Ah I don't think QM is going to do that. At lest yet. But if we keep doing stupid shit, and the MCs/PCs will. There should be consequences. And the MCs/PCs should learn no you don't know everything nor is your thinking right.
[X] Plan: recovery and set up
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You can if you mess with the wrong house.
This is no skin off my back but 3 votes is nothing compared to the three kingdoms quest I'm in.
If you feel it's dire just @ them in the hopes to change their vote.
Heck I'll be nice and vote for yours just this once despite not playing bloody magpies.
Just tell me the vote I should mindlessly vote.
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- Location
- Utrecht
[x] plan recovery and set up
Doesn't help that this plan is not formatted correctly
Doesn't help that this plan is not formatted correctly
- Location
- USA
I am not going to vote stupid. But if folks do it, that is on them and I will laugh.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
[X] Plan: recovery and set up
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Part 1 What I think we really should not vote for and why.
[ ] Vassals
There are cities on the coast nearby, command them in the name of the God-Emperor of Mankind to submit.
[ ] Conquer the Coast
There are cities on the coast, small ones, mortal ones…
I am against conquering human lands until our own forces are in the best position they can be, barring a drastic change in circumstance. This is because while we may not lose any space marines doing so the same can absolutely not be said for our other forces. The more disciplined and coordinated we are and the larger our forces appear the more likely that regular human settlements will simply submit themselves to us I think, If that could be done bloodlessly it would be better for everyone involved.
[ ] Kill the Mutant!
There are two large congregations of mutants, firstly in the mountains to the northwest on the coast, secondly in the jungles over the larger mountain range to the south. Aerial reconnaissance has confirmed their disposition and numbers, and they will not stand against the Lions' claws. Likely they have been turned by the same influence which affected your serfs, but all the same they must be purged.
[ ] Further Xenos investigation
[ ] Scourge the Xenos
The Lizardmen attacked the Mordant's crash site and pockets of stranded survivors, defiling the corpses of the fallen, some of them even being eaten. This insult against the Chapter cannot stand.
I'm not sure why Amra sees the dwarves/ogres as anything but potentially useful Squatts and Ogryns but I think the imperium has already shown it can maintain peaceful relations with such peoples. Beyond that given they have no resources the chapter knows of that are not already in our possession I can not help but seeing an attack on them as a literal waste of ammunition.
Attacking these forces plus the lizardmen, none of whom have really been especially aggressive to us may also end up opening unneeded fronts and dividing our forces. That is something we really do not need. I also will reiterate, although I think this has already been agreed upon that eating people's brains is not the only way to get to know them and that torturing people is a good way to earn loathing and ire that may last generations beyond the acts.
We don't want the consensus on this world to be that we are little better than the dark elves. This is not Nostramo. Additionally, torture will be seen by most as a very inefficient way of gathering information by anyone with their head screwed on straight, frankly, it makes our forces look idiotic if we were any other force it would be idiotic.
Okay wow I guess i'll just make part 2 an existing plan since someone else here is on my same wavelength.
Nonetheless, I will argue for the merits of this plan.
I've actually decided not to vote for this plan because of the blatant mistake in it. It is however very similar to another plan which I will vote for.
[ ]Plan: Lay the Groundwork.
[X] plan recovery and set up
Bear Island: Keeping our very advanced(compared to the natives) tech out of the hands of Elves and Norscans seems like an incredibly good idea, getting more of our dudes back now that we essentially have a functioning city would be an amazing boon because it will allow us to gather experiences from them and increase our manpower pool in a manner that is extremely unlikely to kill more of us.
The City of Bronze: Nagashes Black Pyramid is literally a world-threatening device and the most impressive piece of tech we have seen while we have been here. If we prioritze some peasants over it we are essentially choosing to not even investigate our most obvious local threat which seems not only foolish but out of character to me. Genuinely ignoring this for any longer than we absolutlely must scares me beyond any other prospect in this quest.
Fortify: Good thick walls and bunkers might mean fewer munitions being spent by us in the long term, not that we shouldn't focus on defense via offense as well but I see nothing remotely negative about improving our fortifications. I don't see this as reducing our mobility either, working on this does nothing to say keep us from using our vehicles.
Battle of the Orbitals I assume is actually in here by mistake.
Acheron Crash Site: the more of our materials end up in our ...mostly... responsible hands the better, I don't even want to think of skaven stumbling across it and starting an intellectual revolution or orcs learning to make propa shootahs by being properly introduced to the concept.
[ ] Train Auxiliaries (1 of 2) Now this, this idea right here I think may be one of the most important votes possibly on the list. The more of our population who can be rained to fight the less of our populations can be immediately killed should some orcs or something get into the camp. I can see no real way for this to be of detriment to us. Not to mention taking this option should also help keep the guard occupied and leave them feeling less fidgety. It should probably do that for those being trained too!
I genuinely think the rest of this especially warding should be self-explanatory and self evidently good ideas based on experiences so far.
EDIT: Yes I know this guy is voting for vassals which I have already shown I feel is not the most helpful vote, but this has some momentum and I can't expect like 50 new thread watchers to join and propose something better. Me voting for everything else shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of that being remotely a good idea. I am already fine with having to compromise on everything every turn.
[ ] Vassals
There are cities on the coast nearby, command them in the name of the God-Emperor of Mankind to submit.
[ ] Conquer the Coast
There are cities on the coast, small ones, mortal ones…
I am against conquering human lands until our own forces are in the best position they can be, barring a drastic change in circumstance. This is because while we may not lose any space marines doing so the same can absolutely not be said for our other forces. The more disciplined and coordinated we are and the larger our forces appear the more likely that regular human settlements will simply submit themselves to us I think, If that could be done bloodlessly it would be better for everyone involved.
[ ] Kill the Mutant!
There are two large congregations of mutants, firstly in the mountains to the northwest on the coast, secondly in the jungles over the larger mountain range to the south. Aerial reconnaissance has confirmed their disposition and numbers, and they will not stand against the Lions' claws. Likely they have been turned by the same influence which affected your serfs, but all the same they must be purged.
[ ] Further Xenos investigation
[ ] Scourge the Xenos
The Lizardmen attacked the Mordant's crash site and pockets of stranded survivors, defiling the corpses of the fallen, some of them even being eaten. This insult against the Chapter cannot stand.
I'm not sure why Amra sees the dwarves/ogres as anything but potentially useful Squatts and Ogryns but I think the imperium has already shown it can maintain peaceful relations with such peoples. Beyond that given they have no resources the chapter knows of that are not already in our possession I can not help but seeing an attack on them as a literal waste of ammunition.
Attacking these forces plus the lizardmen, none of whom have really been especially aggressive to us may also end up opening unneeded fronts and dividing our forces. That is something we really do not need. I also will reiterate, although I think this has already been agreed upon that eating people's brains is not the only way to get to know them and that torturing people is a good way to earn loathing and ire that may last generations beyond the acts.
We don't want the consensus on this world to be that we are little better than the dark elves. This is not Nostramo. Additionally, torture will be seen by most as a very inefficient way of gathering information by anyone with their head screwed on straight, frankly, it makes our forces look idiotic if we were any other force it would be idiotic.
Nonetheless, I will argue for the merits of this plan.
I've actually decided not to vote for this plan because of the blatant mistake in it. It is however very similar to another plan which I will vote for.
[X] plan recovery and set up
Bear Island: Keeping our very advanced(compared to the natives) tech out of the hands of Elves and Norscans seems like an incredibly good idea, getting more of our dudes back now that we essentially have a functioning city would be an amazing boon because it will allow us to gather experiences from them and increase our manpower pool in a manner that is extremely unlikely to kill more of us.
The City of Bronze: Nagashes Black Pyramid is literally a world-threatening device and the most impressive piece of tech we have seen while we have been here. If we prioritze some peasants over it we are essentially choosing to not even investigate our most obvious local threat which seems not only foolish but out of character to me. Genuinely ignoring this for any longer than we absolutlely must scares me beyond any other prospect in this quest.
Fortify: Good thick walls and bunkers might mean fewer munitions being spent by us in the long term, not that we shouldn't focus on defense via offense as well but I see nothing remotely negative about improving our fortifications. I don't see this as reducing our mobility either, working on this does nothing to say keep us from using our vehicles.
Acheron Crash Site: the more of our materials end up in our ...mostly... responsible hands the better, I don't even want to think of skaven stumbling across it and starting an intellectual revolution or orcs learning to make propa shootahs by being properly introduced to the concept.
[ ] Train Auxiliaries (1 of 2) Now this, this idea right here I think may be one of the most important votes possibly on the list. The more of our population who can be rained to fight the less of our populations can be immediately killed should some orcs or something get into the camp. I can see no real way for this to be of detriment to us. Not to mention taking this option should also help keep the guard occupied and leave them feeling less fidgety. It should probably do that for those being trained too!
I genuinely think the rest of this especially warding should be self-explanatory and self evidently good ideas based on experiences so far.
EDIT: Yes I know this guy is voting for vassals which I have already shown I feel is not the most helpful vote, but this has some momentum and I can't expect like 50 new thread watchers to join and propose something better. Me voting for everything else shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of that being remotely a good idea. I am already fine with having to compromise on everything every turn.
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- Location
- USA
@16 characters If you have a plan make it. And folks will vote for it, I will if its good.
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That's just the thing Gale, I'm convinced my plans are at least decent. I am also willing to discuss every aspect of them in detail but experience on this thread has shown me that the majority here do not agree on that assessment. Additionally, this fellows plan differs from what I want on just one point, that sort of thing is hard to fight for if I have reason to believe others will not see that point as important. As indeed I do given the seeming lack of discussion on the point of vassals so far.
Okay, I've done a bit more reading so now I can hope to clarify things.
@Exmorri , Can you please explain why you want to start a fight with dudes who have done some of the most to keep this planet alive? Y'know also the dudes with the most powerful magics on the planet maybe barring a coalition of high elf mages, who have so far only fought defensivley? What do we actually stand to gain from such even if we succed? I am afraid my tired eyes have failed to fully comprehend your reasoning on this matter.
Wait wait wait, what, I was very distracted trying to get out my thoughts before any of this newer stuff happened, who's voting for starting more uneeded battles and why do they think this is a good idea?
Okay, I've done a bit more reading so now I can hope to clarify things.
@Exmorri , Can you please explain why you want to start a fight with dudes who have done some of the most to keep this planet alive? Y'know also the dudes with the most powerful magics on the planet maybe barring a coalition of high elf mages, who have so far only fought defensivley? What do we actually stand to gain from such even if we succed? I am afraid my tired eyes have failed to fully comprehend your reasoning on this matter.
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- Location
- Norway
Partly it's the phrasing "This insult against the Chapter cannot stand." in the option description, which looked like it should be a priority from a Space Marine perspective rather than metagaming about lizardmen (and might be enforced by the GM with morale loss if we don't), and partly because I figured it might get more survivors from and/or wreckage of the Mordant to recover, and I was prioritizing collecting all those.
Besides, they started it. Says right there. The Lizardmen attacked the Mordant's crash site. ;-)
But if you insist, here's a variation that swaps out the lizardmen for the mutants, and I'll put approval votes for both.
[X] Plan Yellow
[X] Plan Orange
-[X] Bear Island
-[X] Vassals
-[X] Fortify
-[X] Acheron Crash Site
-[X] Kill the Mutant!
-[X] Establish the Apothecarion (1 of 2)
-[X] Dig a Way (1 of 4)
-[X] Salvage the Demios
-[X] Seeking a Home
-[X] Warding
-[X] Unusual Warp Activity.
-[X] Reorganisation
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If I gave two wits about what space marines wanted I think I would have voted for them. As it stands I am invested in the fantasy side of this and the purely experimental side of this heavily.
If by attacked you mean poked around since that's all I can recall reading. Morale loss is frankly a heck of a lot better than having our base potentially melted by powerful brains from afar, or potentially dooming the whole expedition long-term why does this even need to be said?
If by attacked you mean poked around since that's all I can recall reading. Morale loss is frankly a heck of a lot better than having our base potentially melted by powerful brains from afar, or potentially dooming the whole expedition long-term why does this even need to be said?
Anything packing multiple Beta-level psykers is something to be approached cautiously.
Also, I'm pretty sure the mutant purging option is talking about Beastmen, not ogres or dwarfs. Seeing as they look like they were twisted by the moon.
Also, I'm pretty sure the mutant purging option is talking about Beastmen, not ogres or dwarfs. Seeing as they look like they were twisted by the moon.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Oh no they're beastmen, see here for the two sites in the southlands:
If they were dwarves or ogres the Astartes would have identified them as abhumans. Now the Imperium does sometimes take beastmen into service if they're stable, but in this case the aerial recon established that they're mutated extensively, so the chapter is assuming they're humans who got caught under the moons, which is probably true. There's a difference between an ordered society of catmen and an obviously chaotic horde given they'd have eight pointed starts everywhere.
By definition abhumans aren't mutants because they're not mutable, they stay the same, they're genetically stable rather than suddenly growing an extra arm etc.
This does raise a wider question about whether if you took some beastmen children and indoctrinated them whether they'd still be as mutating as the regular beastmen. In theory a society of Gors would be ok as long as they abandoned all the cultural stuff they've got.
So IRL torture is indeed unreliable and for that reason alone, if not others, is immoral. However, when you bring magic and telepathy into it I suspect it might be used more. It's certainly used by Space Marines. There's a book where a Doom Eagle comes back from imprisonment in the Warp and he's interrogated with various things, presumably including truth serums, torture to cause pain and then telepathy to see whether he's a traitor but he's not so there. Hath-Horeb would have done the same thing, using torture as a distraction from his mental attacks on the skink.
So @Exmorri very good job for engaging with the perspective in general, that's cool to see.
Regarding morale loss, at this time, probably not. What actually happened would have been:
1. Ships crash
2. Lizardmen investigate (not slann, skinks and saurus on their own initiative)
3. Some clashes between Mordant's survivors and the suddenly appearing xenos. Threat displays both ways, blame pretty equal, its the lizardmen's jungle so they're sort of justified, but equally the Imperium has standing policies on xenos so they're justified, self defence on both sides
4. Astartes arrive at Mordant's crash site, observe Lizardmen dragging away stuff. Lizardmen are doing this to take it back to show the slann, the Imperials think they're stealing it. Lizardmen also eating corpses because that's definitely something they do, but they don't think it's weird. However, Imperials justifiably offended by this
5. Situation escalates over time
You can also ask me about actions, like if there's more salvage in the jungle. You got most of it but I could leave that to a dice roll about whether there was any you missed. YOu could also write in an action to specifically use the better scanners on the Thunderchild to scan for bits of salvage or something, if it's salvage you're after not actually fighting the lizardmen.
In regards to the lizardmen situation in general, I'll just leave this here:
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The note on the beastmen actually is interesting because I get the impression that at least in Ind you have beastmen who wear complex clothing and create metal weapons that are engaged in things requiring an organized society I also recall hearing about this population engaging in extortion, which while not good by any stretch also takes intelligence and organization.
I'm going to have to do some digging to find where this from again, my main point is that I don't think it's unprecendented for beastmen to be able to settle down or exist in a form of order.
That said now that I realize we have some chaos culty beast-men roaming around the mountains, well I don't have any qualms bringing the battle to them once our forces are a bit more organized.
EDIT: Okay the Wiki does seem to give some sources on this Eastern Beastmen
I wouldn't take any of this information as reliable I just thought it was neat. The wiki also talks about Apemen and Lakemen but I am genuinely not convinced that those are even beastmen in the sake of being very mutated humans they strike me as more mutated animals, but I think this is all purposefully vague and up to interpretation.
I bring up the later point because I am sure imperials at least some of them have genuinely confused Lizardmen and Skaven for beastmen at times and the lakemen's noted hostility to other beastmen is odd.
I'm going to have to do some digging to find where this from again, my main point is that I don't think it's unprecendented for beastmen to be able to settle down or exist in a form of order.
That said now that I realize we have some chaos culty beast-men roaming around the mountains, well I don't have any qualms bringing the battle to them once our forces are a bit more organized.
EDIT: Okay the Wiki does seem to give some sources on this Eastern Beastmen
I wouldn't take any of this information as reliable I just thought it was neat. The wiki also talks about Apemen and Lakemen but I am genuinely not convinced that those are even beastmen in the sake of being very mutated humans they strike me as more mutated animals, but I think this is all purposefully vague and up to interpretation.
I bring up the later point because I am sure imperials at least some of them have genuinely confused Lizardmen and Skaven for beastmen at times and the lakemen's noted hostility to other beastmen is odd.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
Massively depends on your perspective and the definition of 'Beastmen' really. For example, Skaven are technically beastmen, but they maintain societies, which Beastmen are usually completely against. Is 'Beastmen' a term for all chaotically influenced races, or is it just the standard warherd type? Would Malagor recognise Ikit Claw as a 'Beastman'? No pretty sure he wouldn't, but it's to an extent about the perspective.