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Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)

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Red Bovine said:
As an explanation, as in no offense but am assuming you didn't read through the literal hundreds of pages of discussions of the previous quests, but I'm pretty sure Tri just giving us the Mark 2 series but removing all armor upgrades and just having Revy automatically have the best armor for herself is meant for us to finally move on from the armor discussions after years of debate.
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And it's turning into a debate, also despite the vocal magnitude of the 'go full Stark' faction it's not in keeping with Revy's overall behavior and approach. Up until we perfected the mark three reactor we haven't held back anything, even if we have been hyper conscious of security, and frankly sitting on the mk 3 reactor doesn't mean much. I don't get why people thought it was a big deal, but it's not like the mk 2s aren't already forcing a massive overhaul of infrastructure.

I found the constant clamoring for holding back everything past a certain point to be annoying, poorly considered, and mostly associated with a deep seated desire to act like stark rather than take our actual setting, actions, and goals into account.

I can understand not releasing everything the moment we get it, but largely because I don't want to do unit design votes that often. Better to build up enough stuff to execute the concept and release then. If you're really paranoid you can run it in stages so our companies get the cutting edge stuff, the alliance gets tried and true, and the galaxy gets the older models. However picking an arbitrary point and saying no one else gets to see this is incredibly short sighted.

Artificially crippling the alliance and galaxies tech base doesn't help us. It's the secret prothean VI/database the asari had all over again.
 
w34v3r said:
And it's turning into a debate, also despite the vocal magnitude of the 'go full Stark' faction it's not in keeping with Revy's overall behavior and approach. Up until we perfected the mark three reactor we haven't held back anything, even if we have been hyper conscious of security, and frankly sitting on the mk 3 reactor doesn't mean much. I don't get why people thought it was a big deal, but it's not like the mk 2s aren't already forcing a massive overhaul of infrastructure.

I found the constant clamoring for holding back everything past a certain point to be annoying, poorly considered, and mostly associated with a deep seated desire to act like stark rather than take our actual setting, actions, and goals into account.

I can understand not releasing everything the moment we get it, but largely because I don't want to do unit design votes that often. Better to build up enough stuff to execute the concept and release then. If you're really paranoid you can run it in stages so our companies get the cutting edge stuff, the alliance gets tried and true, and the galaxy gets the older models. However picking an arbitrary point and saying no one else gets to see this is incredibly short sighted.

Artificially crippling the alliance and galaxies tech base doesn't help us. It's the secret prothean VI/database the asari had all over again.
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Revy's character only sells weapons to protect SA and money for humanitarian projects. This isn't crippling anyone because none of the factions are close to catching up. A new armor would invalidate a lot of the old tech which came out a couple of years ago. Not to mention Reapers have an easier time adopting new tech due to less political limits.

Edit: This isn't even close to the Asari issue. That's an issue due to them ignoring a treaty. This is thinking about the long term implacations of the choice.
 
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Red Bovine said:
Did you mean to quote Darkcore instead of me? Because I actually agree with those points.
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You asked if I was familiar with the debate, I answered with my stance in it as the most useful way of answering your question.

Darkcore41 said:
Revy's character only sells weapons to protect SA and money for humanitarian projects. This isn't crippling anyone because none of the factions are close to catching up. A new armor would invalidate a lot of the old tech which came out a couple of years ago. Not to mention Reapers have an easier time adopting new tech due to less political limits.

Edit: This isn't even close to the Asari issue. That's an issue due to them ignoring a treaty. This is thinking about the long term implacations of the choice.
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Like I said we don't have to release everything immediately, I just don't like pointing at a tech branch and saying we'll never release it.

So in terms of the armor, I want to research mark 2, I want to update our personal suit, but until we have a reason/contract/buyer we like I don't see any reason to spend production on a mk. 2 armor for sale, at least not until we've improved the economy enough people can buy it. I just don't want to have to deal with some out of character blanket ban on selling/destributing our tech.
 
w34v3r said:
You asked if I was familiar with the debate, I answered with my stance in it as the most useful way of answering your question.



Like I said we don't have to release everything immediately, I just don't like pointing at a tech branch and saying we'll never release it.

So in terms of the armor, I want to research mark 2, I want to update our personal suit, but until we have a reason/contract/buyer we like I don't see any reason to spend production on a mk. 2 armor for sale, at least not until we've improved the economy enough people can buy it. I just don't want to have to deal with some out of character blanket ban on selling/destributing our tech.
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I agree with not selling it until there was a reason. I was worried you were talking about going opera like Red.

If we really wanted to help SA we'd release something either the reapers can't use or can be mass adopted without politics limiting it. Like the genetic treatment or the self defense/ military basic gear.
 
tri2 said:
For all you OG fans of this quest, in regards to the MK II power armor project, were you thinking it was for mass producing MKII armor like the legionary, or were you thinking it was for making MK II personal armor for Revy? Or Both?
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Mostly for mass producing MK II armor, but doing the project should also improve Revy's personal armor.

I see it as something like:

Current mass produced armor is mark ~1.5 (taking into account all the latest improvements that are bolted onto the original)
Current Revy's personal armor is mark ~1.75
Next-gen mass produced armor is mark 2
Next-gen Revy's personal armor is mark ~2.25

That said, I'm not seeing an urgent need for the MK II project. Less to do with the possibility of others stealing the tech, and more that our current version is already top-of-the-line for its niche.
 
Darkcore41 said:
I agree with not selling it until there was a reason. I was worried you were talking about going opera like Red.

If we really wanted to help SA we'd release something either the reapers can't use or can be mass adopted without politics limiting it. Like the genetic treatment or the self defense/ military basic gear.
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Plug and play skills, they already have that ability, us having it would be pure benefit for us.
 
tri2 said:
ok gonna need to do a survey here.

For all you OG fans of this quest, in regards to the MK II power armor project, were you thinking it was for mass producing MKII armor like the legionary, or were you thinking it was for making MK II personal armor for Revy? Or Both?
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Personal for Revy. I never expected nor wanted to make the MKII something that could be mass-produced. The export versions of her Legionary Suit can be updated as more tech is done to add on and update parts to keep up with competitors, but it shouldn't be anywhere close to what she can use for herself.

Honestly, Revy simply keeping up with all her tech to ensure her own suit is constantly at the cutting edge makes plenty of sense. I see no real reason to have to 'develop a MKII' unless someone specifically wanted to either see it written and described as some sort of revolutionary moment of tech advancement, or attempting to make the MKII as a concept that is somehow so much better than simply using all the best tech Revy as together already in a gradual and natural way.

I think that even in movies Ironman pretty much just kept developing tech, with the MKII being more about the unveiling of the current level of tech he had at the time, and not that the MKII itself was some sort of Tech Tier that needed to be overcame to finally put everything together in the most efficient and effective way. I'd say the individual technology that went into the suits were more important than specialized designs.
 
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I guess the main issue is the naming? Everything you guys are saying are not new tech, just rearrangement of existing tech? The MKII is essentially an upgrade to the legionary armor. It would not even be really that much different tbh. the change in repulsor placement and better materials ain't really a big thing. Main feature change would be the automated suit equipper and removal process.
 
tri2 said:
I guess the main issue is the naming? Everything you guys are saying are not new tech, just rearrangement of existing tech? The MKII is essentially an upgrade to the legionary armor. It would not even be really that much different tbh. the change in repulsor placement and better materials ain't really a big thing. Main feature change would be the automated suit equipper and removal process.
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Ah, now That sounds like a tech to develop, if it doesn't exist already anyways. Give Revy an even more comfortable and automated way to put on and take off her suits! Never have the same problem as Tony where he had problems with getting out of the thing during his early days! Be Swag even while suiting up and suiting off!

Also gives bonuses to response time in case of emergencies, but that's totally a secondary benefit over looking cooler!
 
tri2 said:
I guess the main issue is the naming? Everything you guys are saying are not new tech, just rearrangement of existing tech? The MKII is essentially an upgrade to the legionary armor. It would not even be really that much different tbh. the change in repulsor placement and better materials ain't really a big thing. Main feature change would be the automated suit equipper and removal process.
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Honestly, I just thought that Revy's suit is one of a kind. While the MKII was just the upgraded/new model of the Legionary suit. Revy's personal power armor suit should be impossible to mass-produce because it is always being improved and refined. It is her baby. Obviously, Revy will include some upgrades from her own personal suit into the MKII. Honestly, I don't understand why people are fighting over this. I thought that the QM had decided that Revy's suit will be "one of a kind" and that the MKII would be an improved/new model for the current legionary.

If people didn't raise any complaints at that time, then it was their loss.
 
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tri2 said:
For all you OG fans of this quest, in regards to the MK II power armor project, were you thinking it was for mass producing MKII armor like the legionary, or were you thinking it was for making MK II personal armor for Revy? Or Both?
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Both? I'd understood the Mk. II project to mean Revy creating a new suit for her personal use, one which outstripped her original suit the same way the iconic red-and-gold suit outstripped the cave-and-box-of-scraps suit in the first Iron Man movie, and that this would open up a second project to design a less-capable mass production version (which would presumably be released as 'Legionnaire Mk. II').


Darkcore41 said:
If you actually read they bootlegged Revy's tech because they don't have anything beyond it in that field. Better to focus on another field then release something that won't matter due to Revy already topping them.
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You realize having better infantry is a matter of degree, not a one-and-done thing? If the current Legionnaire can beat 10 of their best hard-suited soldiers, that doesn't mean its not worth researching a Mk. II which can beat 50.
 
Researching, sure.

Selling it anytime soon however is the issue. We need to improve the economy so they can buy more stuff from us.
 
tri2 said:
ok gonna need to do a survey here.

For all you OG fans of this quest, in regards to the MK II power armor project, were you thinking it was for mass producing MKII armor like the legionary, or were you thinking it was for making MK II personal armor for Revy? Or Both?
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Mass production primarily, until your changes about Revys personal suit always being upto date we've never really done any work on a single suit for just Revy as its not really a sensible way to run a buisness or hold off an intergalactic invasion. Its just been implicit Revy owns a copy of whatever is latest.
 
I think its best that we don't really deal with 'MKs' for Revy's personal suit other than the most up-to-date tech auto implemented and different load outs.

We can use MKs for the different versions that we can sell. I don't think most people are against researching MKIIs but rather their sale which I agree with. And at no point did anyone say we should ban the research of MKIIs so we shouldn't panic. Plus I think we have better priorities than MKIIs anyway...
 
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Darkcore41 said:
Making assumptions for everyone again. Really a bad habit when it's as simple as leaving it as a vote. If I remember correctly a few pages back QM figured we wouldn't want to release a mark 2 due to mark one being good enough.

Secondly we just in story released a bunch of weapons that would be invalidated by the invention of another mark. On top of that there is absolutely no reason to release the other marks considering everyone else is still catching up. There isn't anything really matching it or requiring another mark. Even the reapers are playing tech catch up. If you actually read they bootlegged Revy's tech because they don't have anything beyond it in that field. Better to focus on another field then release something that won't matter due to Revy already topping them.

Look at the biotic that bursted in Revy's lab and attempted to steal. It was just using Revy's stuff combined with a field we didn't invest much in. Mass effect fields so instead of handing them something they can't top invest that time into topping fields they are ahead of us in.

There is no IC reason to release it and no OOC reason. If we release that then we might as well release the new energy source because it's being held back for the same reason. We shouldn't Opera and hope there won't be consequences.

Edit: Think about like this, Reapers don't have a limit to adopting the tech we do. SA can't afford to outfit everyone, not could they justify and keep that kind of military build up. Everyone else is limited by borders and the slow trickle of Arc reactors. Cerberus probably won't have as much of a problem as SA due to being in the shadows. So if anyyhing this empowers the Reapers more then anyone else.
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At that point why bother making new tech at all then since clearly the reapers will obviously just manage to take it all.
 
NavySeel said:
At that point why bother making new tech at all then since clearly the reapers will obviously just manage to take it all.
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Simple some tech is useless to them or they are above us in that field. Tech that can see mass adoption makes more sense then tech that will help them more then us.

For example the genetic stuff, VI, AI, housing, quality of life upgrades, etc are things they don't need it already out tech us in. Weapons that serve no purpose other then causing more destruction for the sake of more destruction makes no sense. There is nothing on the market that can match the suits. There is nothing the reapers have that out tech the suits. Hence why they jail broke it and try to kidnap Shepherd. They combine their superior fields with what Shepherd out techs them in.

Your mixing up my argument with staying static. When the suggestion was to enter fields that shore up holes in military doctrine or helps us more then it helps the reapers.

Edit: About the suits specifically they are easier to steal then a tank or a star ship. Not saying it's impossible to steal a ship or a tank but suits would provide much of the same tech and only require on thrall or misplacement to gain all that tech.

Edit2: The military also has a limited budget that your forcing them to use. We made the MK1 modular for this reason. If they have to re buy all their suits within a few years then it'll probably gk the way of starships. Them holding off until a set amount of time to buy more. Especially since there isn't anything that warrants them upgrading.

Of they do but MK2 then what's the point of buying the new tank? With a limited budget the MK2 would present the same issue older tanks had when the MK1 was released but they aren't heavily adopted yet so they can just stop buying that making it a wasted design.
 
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Darkcore41 said:
I agree with not selling it until there was a reason. I was worried you were talking about going opera like Red.
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The heck are you talking about going opera? Like if you haven't noticed the point of quests is to have fun. Like if you forgotten this isn't just a Mass Effect crossover but a Marvel crossover as well. And for superhero settings rule of cool is in play and a big appeal to the genre along with just having more fun with things and not taking things super seriously all the time.

And here is the thing, a lot of people are fans of Iron Man and so want the iconic armor of Iron Man. I mean shocker that fans of a series want something iconic to the character they are inspired from. A lot of people don't like min maxing to the absurd degree that we can't have fun with anything. Like we literally bought an animation studio for the fun of it just last turn. Hell going by the previous quest people actually stored enough omake points into it that we only needed 150 RP to finally get it if it had gone on.

So of course people want the iconic Iron Man armor. It's fucking Iron Man and Iron Man's thing is literally having the best power armor.
w34v3r said:
Which is why we black boxed it, they can get the pieces but they can't learn from them.
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This so much^^^ Sweet Jesus questers can be crippling paranoid at times to the point of detriment. We spend so much time with stuff like getting the absolute best blackboxing so that people can't just reverse engineer our tech and people still act irrationally paranoid about our tech. I imagine that if we did make our tech completely incapable of being reverse engineered people would still be irrationally paranoid about them.
LollipoPReapeR said:
Won't stop them from bastardising or just straight up using it against us though which is the problem.
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That's a terrible argument. In that case why ever make anything?
 
Red Bovine said:
The heck are you talking about going opera? Like if you haven't noticed the point of quests is to have fun. Like if you forgotten this isn't just a Mass Effect crossover but a Marvel crossover as well. And for superhero settings rule of cool is in play and a big appeal to the genre along with just having more fun with things and not taking things super seriously all the time.
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Some people have fun in ways other than how you have fun. Try to recognize that fact and stop being so dismissive of people who have differing opinions.
 
@Red Bovine what exactly is the iconic iron man suit for you? just the paint job or was it the way you wear it? cause you basically already have the iconic iron man suit already in the form of the legionary? just gotta move some of the stuff around on it.
 
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