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Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)

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Darkcore41 said:
Not talking about using it against us. I'm talking about them wanting all life pushed in that direct as their goal. The synthesis ending of mass effect three essentially.



Your thinking taw numbers from the intial attack not the knock on effects of something or somewhere critical being hit. I'll have to check where they hit last time but didn't they get close to hitting in the Sol system. If I'm correct then that's a potential decapitation strike. Not to mention what ever close that could lead to ending the war quickly, the influence we get from happing SA again.

I also find it hard to believe the other governments are going to trust what comes from humans and their home grown biotech companies are just going to allow this. We had it easy before because of influence, being human and having a non profit. The other races are likely to stop it at the government level and ask for the formula. At that point they do whatever with it.

It's horrible when a foreign government has more influence with your citizens then you do. It's what the Asari do or what Civ terms a cultural victory.

Edit: You've also misread what I said about the Tuarians. Dur to their need to be militarily dominate the other races were limited via treaty allowing slavers easy pickings. If they had allowed races to defend themselves then less lives are lost. Look in quest on how they renogotiate the treaty and that shows they could have done it any time to deal with the slavers.
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In order for cryptographer to save more lives than the genetic treatment, it would have to prevent the extinction of not only humanity, but also the Batarians. Humanity just doesn't exist in the numbers needed to make cryptography worth it from a objective standpoint. The only reason for it would be if humanity is about to go extinct.

As for the governmental aspect, it's already a thing in universe that medical companies do have ways to sell their inventions to the rest of the Citadel. There's really not all that many problems that come from it.
 
All this arguing about withholding research is weird. There is no argument for withholding gene-mods if they were simply never researched in the first place.

Because yes, there's a good argument for why it's not a good idea to keep the medical tech back for profit when it makes no sense to do so due to all the ways people can find out it was withheld, AKA Mordin leaking it. But then, it's also a good argument then for why Revy doesn't NEED to even DO the research in the first place.

Sure, she could put people on it if she chose to, but so could any other company that has the capability. But when she has OTHER research that are actually potentially far more profitable or useful to her, why then, would she ignore that opportunity cost to do something for others for free when she can focus the effort and time spent for other objectives and goals that she wanted more instead? Or is this going to become some sort of debate where IRL companies are at fault for not developing cures even when they could've at the cost of more money, or that they could've released it cheaper when they had no logical and profitable reasons to?

In other words, maybe do the research for races that are politically important and currently useful to get connections with like the salarians, because this can help Revy achieve her political goals, and simply Not do the research for others after that until Revy has logical reasons to. That way no one can blame Revy for holding back cures when she has no cures to hold back. One can't claim she has ANY obligations to need to spend her and her company's planned time and effort into help people for free 'Just Because She Can', and instead it should always be 'Because She Felt Like It'.

Because if we're going with that argument then there's no real end to the debate on WHY she has the responsibility, or what would be the more optimized choice plan for her research for the sake of being responsible for the salvation of the galaxy, that for some reason that she never got notified of.
 
Daemon Hunter said:
In order for cryptographer to save more lives than the genetic treatment, it would have to prevent the extinction of not only humanity, but also the Batarians. Humanity just doesn't exist in the numbers needed to make cryptography worth it from a objective standpoint. The only reason for it would be if humanity is about to go extinct.

As for the governmental aspect, it's already a thing in universe that medical companies do have ways to sell their inventions to the rest of the Citadel. There's really not all that many problems that come from it.
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Not what I meant about the medical. What I meant is the legal documentation those companies would have to go through. We got around it using influence with the government and a non profit doing the lobbying. We'd have to gain the influence for that approach to work on the large scale. Not to mention what's was sold before isn't going to gain the good will of the populace like this biotech would. Look at what happened with the arc generator. They attempted to discredit it. What happens with something even bigger then that? It's probably not going to be as easy as Revy doing another media blitz.


As for the cryptology it's worth it if it causes destibilization of the government and long term xenophobia. Think about how many places that will get hit during the war and how that will shift policy. On top of government and critical locations that may get hit. I thought it was take care of your home first before you help your neighbors.

If this was war and your a major arms provider then the public or the military would wonder why you have time to create cures for other countries instead of helping your own.

Edit: @marids I tried recommending doing it for political gain but others wanted it to be just because is what the argument came down to. I recommended handing it over to SA and having them use it as a bargaining tip as the professionals.

It side steps the backlash from anyone and gives humanity as a whole cred.
 
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Darkcore41 said:
Edit: @marids I tried recommending doing it for political gain but others wanted it to be just because is what the argument came down to. I recommended handing it over to SA and having them use it as a bargaining tip as the professionals.

It side steps the backlash from anyone and gives humanity as a whole cred.
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That honestly doesn't sound bad at all. Revy inventing and making things for business is one thing, but when her products and research can affect her own most affiliated political entity, AKA the System Alliance, then she should consult them first for permission, advice and to prevent any negative rep gains from her own species, similarly to the Repulsor tech.

That way if they think it's the right time to release the tech for best effect and benefits, then they can declare it was done by joint research from both SA and Revy to ensure both parties get credit for it, along with much approval from SA for how Revy is working with them, and all the while protected from political stuff because she was clearly just working within the rules of the political group she belongs to.

In fact, maybe they can make their own requests for whatever sort of tech or R&D they'd like Revy to do research on, and Revy can fulfill those 'work-orders' for both rep and profit like what other companies usually do. Maybe then people can have some sort of direction on what type of research needs to be done and work towards as opposed to making plan out of nothing. Because while total sandbox mode has the most freedom. it's also kinda lacking in goals other than 'because we felt like it'.

Edit: The more I think about it the more I want the 'requests' thing. Because who knows what other people want from Revy, and what they'd want as opposed to what Revy thinks they need. Perhaps more options to gain rep in that way could be done for multiple species, organizations and even individuals could be a part of the quest mechanics. Each request then could have it's own customer, conditions to fulfill, benefits and costs listed, ranging from materialistically, politically, and socially, with level of details subject to the level of Revy and her customer support team's capability to discern the overall costs, risks and gains. But maybe that would be too much more work for Tri2 to do vs letting the players handle it with their own knowledge and skills.
 
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Handing it over to the systems alliance government to use as a bargaining chip sounds like an awful idea. We get all the negative press of being humano-centric except that now we also don't even get the benefit of deciding what happens to it.

I say we release it and watch the great PR roll in, PR which we can then directly translate into other benefits.

Daemon Hunter said:
There's nothing that forces us to hire ex-alliance. It's just that if we did we'd see a quality drop, and I'm very happy to keep picking up high quality soldiers for our PMCs due to the increased trust that comes with them.
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Wait, but didn't you say that we can't trust them because their loyalties aren't really to us?
 
Twiggierjet said:
Handing it over to the systems alliance government to use as a bargaining chip sounds like an awful idea. We get all the negative press of being humano-centric except that now we also don't even get the benefit of deciding what happens to it.

I say we release it and watch the great PR roll in, PR which we can then directly translate into other benefits.


Wait, but didn't you say that we can't trust them because their loyalties aren't really to us?
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I said we can't trust them if we wanted to go against Alliance Interests. As long as those interests align, we can trust them not to leak our tech information out to other governments.

If we do hire non-Alliance personnel, then while we could trust they wouldn't run to the Alliance if we wanted to go against Alliance interests as long as we paid them extra, we also couldn't trust them to not leak our tech info in exchange for additional payments.

As for the bargaining chip idea. Pretty much this. The galaxy is very much interconnected, and this leads to a situation where one government is effectively holding the lives of billions as hostage for political points. What we want is to give it freely, and for the other governments to give us political points rather than this situation.
 
Can't we just do what we did with Sirta and find a major non-profit organization in those other nations and then licenses the treatments to them for a nominal fee?

That's kind of what Revy has been doing so far, research the medical tech then hand it off to Sirta for dissemination so they handle all the ground work.
 
Daemon Hunter said:
I said we can't trust them if we wanted to go against Alliance Interests. As long as those interests align, we can trust them not to leak our tech information out to other governments.

If we do hire non-Alliance personnel, then while we could trust they wouldn't run to the Alliance if we wanted to go against Alliance interests as long as we paid them extra, we also couldn't trust them to not leak our tech info in exchange for additional payments.

As for the bargaining chip idea. Pretty much this. The galaxy is very much interconnected, and this leads to a situation where one government is effectively holding the lives of billions as hostage for political points. What we want is to give it freely, and for the other governments to give us political points rather than this situation.
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Don't they already monitor everything we sell in citadel space? We had to go through them to sell the arc reactor and got blocked by them when it came to the repulsors. They could block this of they wanted to as well. So effectively they can hold it hostage if they feel like it.

Plus this effects diplomacy between governments which is their domain. Remember the backlash just from taking Liara to a dance? This would be that amplified. They'd think the company is cozying up to other governments which may concern SA.

Also how does this look human centric on the companies behalf? If we were human centric why even create the therapy? We aren't obligated to do it or give it out for free.

Edit: @Mannan SA has a council that checks what's being given to outside government. Hence why the repulsors couldn't make it outside SA market. We'd have to get it past SA anyway.
 
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Darkcore41 said:
Don't they already monitor everything we sell in citadel space? We had to go through them to sell the arc reactor and got blocked by them when it came to the repulsors. They could block this of they wanted to as well. So effectively they can hold it hostage if they feel like it.

Plus this effects diplomacy between governments which is their domain. Remember the backlash just from taking Liara to a dance? This would be that amplified. They'd think the company is cozying up to other governments which may concern SA.

Also how does this look human centric on the companies behalf? If we were human centric why even create the therapy? We aren't obligated to do it or give it out for free.

Edit: @Mannan SA has a council that checks what's being given to outside government. Hence why the repulsors couldn't make it outside SA market. We'd have to get it past SA anyway.
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Weapons tech is massively different than medical tech. As least when it comes to exports.
 
Darkcore41 said:
Don't they already monitor everything we sell in citadel space? We had to go through them to sell the arc reactor and got blocked by them when it came to the repulsors. They could block this of they wanted to as well. So effectively they can hold it hostage if they feel like it.

Plus this effects diplomacy between governments which is their domain. Remember the backlash just from taking Liara to a dance? This would be that amplified. They'd think the company is cozying up to other governments which may concern SA.
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Oooooor we give them out freely, and then use the goodwill we gained from the revolutionary medical advance to overcome all those issues you mentioned much more easily. Who do you think the average asari or turian citizen will listen to more, the human company that got blocked from shipping weapons and is now holding a life-saving cure hostage, or the company who gave that cure away for free despite not needing to do so and still being hassled by their ungrateful government?

Daemon Hunter said:
I said we can't trust them if we wanted to go against Alliance Interests. As long as those interests align, we can trust them not to leak our tech information out to other governments.
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It hasn't been an issue so far, but what happens if one day our interests do end up diverging?
 
Mannan said:
Can't we just do what we did with Sirta and find a major non-profit organization in those other nations and then licenses the treatments to them for a nominal fee?

That's kind of what Revy has been doing so far, research the medical tech then hand it off to Sirta for dissemination so they handle all the ground work.
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We could possible go through Sirta once more. They are the premier biotech non-profit in the galaxy at this time.

Twiggierjet said:
Oooooor we give them out freely, and then use the goodwill we gained from the revolutionary medical advance to overcome all those issues you mentioned much more easily. Who do you think the average asari or turian citizen will listen to more, the human company that got blocked from shipping weapons and is now holding a life-saving cure hostage, or the company who gave that cure away for free despite not needing to do so and still being hassled by their ungrateful government?


It hasn't been an issue so far, but what happens if one day our interests do end up diverging?
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If that does happen, then we'll probably have to switch over to a VI and drone form of security force leaving us vulnerable to being crippled by successful hackers. Although that'd pretty much just be the Reapers.
 
Darkcore41 said:
We crippled the repulsors to not act as weapons remember and it still didn't get through.
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Unless you have a cite, I'm going to say that's false, I don't remember this ever happening, and based on the informationals, we only have a single repulsor design.

Not to mention that even if we did cripple it, we're basically still selling a high energy use device, those types of things are heavily regulated no matter what.
 
i'd say that from a political standpoint we gain the most, both for humanities sake and even Revy, by just giving out the treatments for the races for free. If Paragon Industries is the one that is publicly seen giving away something like that than that gives us a lot of political power. Multiplied times ten if we do the eternal youth treatment. At that point it's guaranteed to get humanity a seat on the Council and if humanity not only has a seat but Revy can be pointed to as the reason for humanity having said seat than that opens a lot of doors for us.

At this point we already have tons of money and resources. Political clout and influence are a completely different matter and arguably gives us more than just mere money in some areas.
 
Hoyr said:
[X] Shift Repulsor lobbying away from any mention of exporting to other nations and focus on sale to humans, specifically those within the Alliance.
[X] Counter arguments as to it's capability as a weapon with strict controls designed to ensure starship engine repulsors remain starship engine repulsors.
You see some success in winning people over to your way of thinking. However this isn't the sort of thing that's going to get done in a quarter. You've also be reminded of something. It's possible to modify an arc-reactor to make a repulsor. Not as good as a purpose-built one obviously, but it still work. The teams out in the galaxy reverse engineering Arc-Reactors may stumble upon the trick to making a repulsor. The two are basically two sides to the same coin after all.
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Daemon Hunter said:
Unless you have a cite, I'm going to say that's false, I don't remember this ever happening, and based on the informationals, we only have a single repulsor design.

Not to mention that even if we did cripple it, we're basically still selling a high energy use device, those types of things are heavily regulated no matter what.
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As you can see we not only told them we'd cripple it but only sell to humans and it still got rejected. Even with Revy knowing someone could make a crude version of it without buying from her.

The gene mods make people peak in a category and can be used to skip forward research to the cap america version. If we give this out we should only give out the Pancea component.
 
or instead of just outright for free, could also just potentially do the same as what you did with the human gene therapy treatments, contract them out through Sirta Foundation to spread it for cheap instead of profits.
 
tri2 said:
or instead of just outright for free, could also just potentially do the same as what you did with the human gene therapy treatments, contract them out through Sirta Foundation to spread it for cheap instead of profits.
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I think that in this case "give it for free" and "contract it to sirta for so cheap as to not make any profit on it" are effectively the same thing and will probably result in the same sort of PR boost.
 
You have no idea how happy I am to see this level of discusstion/activity in a 3 year old frozen quest. Makes this all worth it.
Twiggierjet said:
I think that in this case "give it for free" and "contract it to sirta for so cheap as to not make any profit on it" are effectively the same thing and will probably result in the same sort of PR boost.
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more of a difference in 'how' it is being distributed for 'free'.
 
Red Bovine said:
i'd say that from a political standpoint we gain the most, both for humanities sake and even Revy, by just giving out the treatments for the races for free. If Paragon Industries is the one that is publicly seen giving away something like that than that gives us a lot of political power. Multiplied times ten if we do the eternal youth treatment. At that point it's guaranteed to get humanity a seat on the Council and if humanity not only has a seat but Revy can be pointed to as the reason for humanity having said seat than that opens a lot of doors for us.

At this point we already have tons of money and resources. Political clout and influence are a completely different matter and arguably gives us more than just mere money in some areas.
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Exactly this. We're already making so much money that what's limiting us right now is construction times as well as the actual size of the market.

Darkcore41 said:
As you can see we not only told them we'd cripple it but only sell to humans and it still got rejected. Even with Revy knowing someone could make a crude version of it without buying from her.

The gene mods make people peak in a category and can be used to skip forward research to the cap america version. If we give this out we should only give out the Pancea component.
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Seems that I was wrong on the Repulsors, although the fact of the matter is that it's still a high energy device which is sharply regulated IRL as well.

tri2 said:
or instead of just outright for free, could also just potentially do the same as what you did with the human gene therapy treatments, contract them out through Sirta Foundation to spread it for cheap instead of profits.
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This is what I was planning actually, the analysis I was doing was for at cost production and distribution rather than a fully free treatment.
 
tri2 what the reserch points needed for the following
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Turians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Asari)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Salarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Elcor)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Volus)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Hanar)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Drell)
just need to now if there 400 reserch points same as peak human that way we now the maths to complete them if we go all in (l dont think we will but it will stop arguments and give us an extra option) ps sorry asking so soon before update

Aranfan said:
I say actual free.
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whats 17 trillion times say 10.000 ....yea free for them but a debt of 1,700,000,000,000,000,000 for us ..... yea sure go free
 
cageorks said:
tri2 what the reserch points needed for the following
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Turians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Asari)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Salarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Elcor)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Volus)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Hanar)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Drell)
just need to now if there 400 reserch points same as peak human that way we now the maths to complete them if we go all in (l dont think we will but it will stop arguments and give us an extra option) ps sorry asking so soon before update



whats 17 trillion times say 10.000 ....yea free for them but a debt of 1,700,000,000,000,000,000 for us ..... yea sure go free
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At our current profits how much time will it take us to get that money back?
 
@tri2 Do we need a quarian expert of we want to do
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Quarians)?

I mean, it is not specifed, but seeing how their immune system is severly damaged, it may cause some trouble.
 
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