Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)

[Daemon Hunter]

to be fair with the plan l wait for the labs under construction to get made before the upgrades. as we cant use them while they upgrading so we need to wait 3 turns to be safe but that's just me maybe its worth it

the rest plan looks fun though

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For the labs, at the moment we have two Lab Is on Elysium making 100 RP a turn. Assuming the Hwan bonus doesn't translate for a Lab III, that means a Lab III produces 177.5 RP more a quarter than the Lab I. As it takes 3 quarters for a Lab III to be built, that means we'd lose out on 300 RP for the process to upgrade a Lab III. Which means that the Lab III would produce more RP than a Lab I just 2 quarters after it comes online. For a better breakdown for the effects due to the upgrade of one lab:

Quarter 1: -100 RP from norm
Quarter 2: -200 RP from norm
Quarter 3: -300 RP from norm
Quarter 4: -122.5 RP from norm
Quarter 5: +55 RP from norm

 

[UberJJK]

This production queue makes sense to me, the only real changes I'd make are minor ones. I'm thinking of adding in lab upgrades to the facilities on Elysium for one, and shifting the Well Armed Space Factory II over Terra Nova to Bekenstein in order to spread out production as well as defenses. Also adding in a Bombardment Grade City Shield to Bekenstein as well as 20 billion credits worth of turrets on Eden Prime, Terra Nova, and Bekenstein as I like turrets.

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I haven't had a chance to really look at the research system yet so I was holding off on working out Lab deployments; there is certainly room in the budget for them. I thought about putting a Space Factory, my origonal thoughts was actually a Space Factory III, over Bekenstein but I'm not sure it is really worthwhile. The only things that actually use large amounts of Production are starships and the bulk production of certain goods. Right now the only thing we produce in bulk are Arc Reactors and the 20 Factory IIIs can supply 8mil/qtr which is more then enough. Starship production isn't viable because while Bekenstein likely an Alliance Colonial World (and thus we could build shipyards there) it is very much in Citadel space not Alliance space. This is problematic because Starship construction and everything around it is undoubtedly extremely regulated and the Alliance just isn't going to approve us building such facilities in alien space.

 

[cageorks]

Quarter 1: -100 RP from norm
Quarter 2: -200 RP from norm
Quarter 3: -300 RP from norm
Quarter 4: -122.5 RP from norm
Quarter 5: +55 RP from norm

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thanks for the maths, so l would be up for it and think we get it upgraded faster than 3 turns because its already has the foundation but its there for anyone wants to see it. cheers hunter

ps. do we have any research that related to tool or machine manufacturing we have all these alliance standard factories but we never tried to upgrade them to our standard. have we???

 

[Daemon Hunter]

I haven't had a chance to really look at the research system yet so I was holding off on working out Lab deployments; there is certainly room in the budget for them. I thought about putting a Space Factory, my origonal thoughts was actually a Space Factory III, over Bekenstein but I'm not sure it is really worthwhile. The only things that actually use large amounts of Production are starships and the bulk production of certain goods. Right now the only thing we produce in bulk are Arc Reactors and the 20 Factory IIIs can supply 8mil/qtr which is more then enough. Starship production isn't viable because while Bekenstein likely an Alliance Colonial World (and thus we could build shipyards there) it is very much in Citadel space not Alliance space. This is problematic because Starship construction and everything around it is undoubtedly extremely regulated and the Alliance just isn't going to approve us building such facilities in alien space.

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In that case, I suppose it depends a lot on if researching and selling Hardsuits can reach the numbers we want. If I remember right, we're hitting market saturation for the Arc Reactors, so we can't really just spam them out. So, it seems to me like we'd need to get new products. The ships are a good choice no matter what, although they do need a rather hefty investment in shipyards as you've shown. In summary though, from what you pointed out it does make sense to leave the Space Factory II where you do, and the only real reason to change that would be if we get a new product that's viable enough to consume a Space Factory II of production, and it doesn't make sense to gamble on that due to the cost involved.

 

[Red Bovine]

I have to say that if we really want to go full PR Saint mode we should probably research the treatments for all spacefaring races, keep it under wraps until we have all of them and then release all of them at the same time.

That way we would also increase tremendously our reputation among the Volus, Elcor, and the rest of the races without a seat in the Council, because we release the treatments at the same time as the BIG 3 and we did not treat them as second class citizens.

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That would likely look way worse in my opinion since we'd be letting people die in the meantime while we research all the races. It would look like we'd let people die solely for PR reasons. It just makes sense to release them as we finish each one.

 

[Darkcore41]

That would likely look way worse in my opinion since we'd be letting people die in the meantime while we research all the races. It would look like we'd let people die solely for PR reasons. It just makes sense to release them as we finish each one.

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How would anyone know we are researching it? Hell why would they even expect that? There was no backlash to only making a human formula, why would things change now?

No one is expecting Revy to save the world. It's only nice when she does so. Blaming deaths that Revy has no hand in on her because she has medicine is like blaming all the biotech companies in mass effect for not making all their stuff free.

 

[Red Bovine]

How would anyone know we are researching it? Hell why would they even expect that? There was no backlash to only making a human formula, why would things change now?

No one is expecting Revy to save the world. It's only nice when she does so. Blaming deaths that Revy has no hand in on her because she has medicine is like blaming all the biotech companies in mass effect for not making all their stuff free.

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The argument I responded to was that we would research treatments for other races but that we should also keep all treatments secret until we unlocked all of the races. The problem with that is that logically it would take time to do the research for each race at which point it becomes pretty obvious that in that scenario we would have been withholding treatments despite having them for a while solely for PR reasons.

 

[Darkcore41]

The argument I responded to was that we would research treatments for other races but that we should also keep all treatments secret until we unlocked all of the races. The problem with that is that logically it would take time to do the research for each race at which point it becomes pretty obvious that in that scenario we would have been withholding treatments despite having them for a while solely for PR reasons.

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Like I said no one knows because it's a secret. We would withold all of them except the human treatment because that's already out there. Besides they are gonna complain about something that is coming out for free? Revy doesn't have to do any of this. Biotech companies would have sold this and not gotten any backlash.

Edit: how would they even know we withold it unless Revy said so and why would they care once they have it?

Edit2: If we go by your logic then someone is going to get mad no matter what. If we prioritize the main three then that looks like favoritism. If we don't then it looks like a slight. So no matter what you do someone is getting angry.

 

[Fanhunter696]

That would likely look way worse in my opinion since we'd be letting people die in the meantime while we research all the races. It would look like we'd let people die solely for PR reasons. It just makes sense to release them as we finish each one.

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I disagree, especially if we do like with human mods and put them for free (which I guess that we will do)... Whereas I agree that we should research the mods and make them available for free, we should not forget that neither Revy nor Paragon Industries are in any way obligated to do so.

Seeing how revolutionary this stuff is, I really doubt that there would be much of a backlash if we release them at market price... And if we do it for free, Who the hell is going to complain? Hell, Revy will become basically a Saint to the whole galaxy, Krogan and Batarian included.

 

[Darkcore41]

Wanna fix the genophage? Keep the numbers limited without the stillborns would probably win the Krogans.

 

[cageorks]

......krogan even more bada''-''oh council please calm the f down its a universal treatment and you cant prove otherwise''

 

[KhazintheDark]

[ ] Miniaturized Energy Weapons [400]: A lot of things go into making a laser, but people have made them for literally centuries, so there are few great mysteries left. The major problem in making smaller lasers is containing the energy. Fortunately, you have some knowledge in designing new materials, and now you'll be making cavities and resonators that will make your competitors weep. (What it says on the tin.)

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From the research list.

A lot of things go into making a laser, but people have made them for literally centuries, so there are few great mysteries left. The major problem in making smaller lasers is containing the heat generated from the change in optical properties at the boundary of the focusing lens and the laser generation chamber. Large lasers overcome this by pumping coolant with the same optical properties as the lens through the lens, fortunately you have some knowledge in designing new materials, and now you'll be meaking cavities and resonators that make your competitors weep.

 

[Darkcore41]

We really should start playing politics as soon as possible. Maybe create some shell/puppet companies with their own PMCs to buff military numbers without anyone noticing.

How does Cerebrus even get away with this?

 

[Red Bovine]

Like I said no one knows because it's a secret. We would withold all of them except the human treatment because that's already out there. Besides they are gonna complain about something that is coming out for free? Revy doesn't have to do any of this. Biotech companies would have sold this and not gotten any backlash.

Edit: how would they even know we withold it unless Revy said so and why would they care once they have it?

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First of imagine how it would look like if people found out that there is not only a cure for every single form of cancer but that it was kept hidden for years.

Second people aren't stupid. It is literally going to take time to make it so that each treatment is tailored to each race. Any one with enough knowledge on how such things work would figure it based on that simple logic.

I disagree, especially if we do like with human mods and put them for free (which I guess that we will do)... Whereas I agree that we should research the mods and make them available for free, we should not forget that neither Revy nor Paragon Industries are in any way obligated to do so.

Seeing how revolutionary this stuff is, I really doubt that there would be much of a backlash if we release them at market price... And if we do it for free, Who the hell is going to complain? Hell, Revy will become basically a Saint to the whole galaxy, Krogan and Batarian included.

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This isn't about market prize or obligation. It's the fact that the argument 'let's keep every single treatment we make secret, letting numerous people ide, because people may be upset if we show favoritism towards the big 3' doesn't really make sense.

 

[Daemon Hunter]

Like I said no one knows because it's a secret. We would withold all of them except the human treatment because that's already out there. Besides they are gonna complain about something that is coming out for free? Revy doesn't have to do any of this. Biotech companies would have sold this and not gotten any backlash.

Edit: how would they even know we withold it unless Revy said so and why would they care once they have it?

Edit2: If we go by your logic then someone is going to get mad no matter what. If we prioritize the main three then that looks like favoritism. If we don't then it looks like a slight. So no matter what you do someone is getting angry.

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The thing is, the amount of money we can make off the medical treatments doesn't actually matter to us. If you look at the human treatments, we could get 50 billion credits a quarter from them. The PR benefits from making it free are so valuable that I don't see any reason not to.

We really should start playing politics as soon as possible. Maybe create some shell/puppet companies with their own PMCs to buff military numbers without anyone noticing.

How does Cerebrus even get away with this?

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I'm really against this. The majority of the people we would hire are ex-Alliance soldiers, and I imagine a lot of them would be more loyal to the military than us. That and if we are caught, then we're going to be in a world of shit as our image takes a massive, massive blow.

This isn't about market prize or obligation. It's the fact that the argument 'let's keep every single treatment we make secret, letting numerous people ide, because people may be upset if we show favoritism towards the big 3' doesn't really make sense.

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Full agreement here. There's no reason to hold onto any such treatment we come up with as we can just get more out of it from releasing it. Personally, I'd say give the Salarians, Turians, and Asari the treatment first as there are more of them and politics would demand it. But afterwards go down the list for all the existing races we know of.

 

[Fanhunter696]

First of imagine how it would look like if people found out that there is not only a cure for every single form of cancer but that it was kept hidden for years.

Second people aren't stupid. It is literally going to take time to make it so that each treatment is tailored to each race. Any one with enough knowledge on how such things work would figure it based on that simple logic.

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Taking into account that we would be given that cure for cancer FOR FREE when we had no obligation to do so, and we could have ( and we were expected) sold them for profit... It would look that Revy is literally a fucking saint on Earth, the only ones that will hate her are the rest of the Pharmaceutical Corporations in the Galaxy, but that is kind of unavoidable.

 

[ShyGuy]

Taking into account that we would be given that cure for cancer FOR FREE when we had no obligation to do so, and we could have ( and we were expected) sold them for profit... It would look that Revy is literally a fucking saint on Earth, the only ones that will hate her are the rest of the Pharmaceutical Corporations in the Galaxy, but that is kind of unavoidable.

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Not really no. If I learned there was a cure for cancer and it was withheld for a few years because the company also wanted to releases the cure for diabetes at the same time, I would be livid. Especially if someone close to me had died in the intervening years. Withholding the treatment doesn't make sense and only earns you negative PR. This is coming from someone who has had relatives die from cancer IRL.

Release the treatments as you complete them. That is the only thing that makes sense. No one race is going to be angry that you cured a disease.

 

[cageorks]

l really hate how this chat is right now so peak human cost 400 reserch points so im using this as base. there only 7 groups at the moment we can give this treatment to without major backlash in my view so taking that into account we have 2800 reserch points towards this reserch. last turn we used around 4700 research points so if we agree right now and drop this dam fighting in chat we have 1900 spare research points left to mess around with and we satisfy everyone at the same time

so if people want to wait for all reseach go a head but above is an option that a good compromise if we all agree.

batarians we are at war with them so f those guys for now at least. vorcha yea they dont need it so much with there culture(well i dont think). quarians we actualy need other reserch so we dont kill them in the operation table so sorry for now (if we had a quarian resercher it be diffrent) krogan....the stuff we do is already illegal for most part the council overlooks stuff if its good out ways its bad and yea no krogans i love yous but we got a galaxy to help
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Turians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Asari)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Salarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Elcor)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Volus)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Quarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Batarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Vorcha)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Krogans)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Hanar)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Drell)

 

[Twiggierjet]

Idea: we can release the treatments for free, and the use the goodwill generated from this to get the council to legalize our other biotech projects and start selling those.

I'm really against this. The majority of the people we would hire are ex-Alliance soldiers, and I imagine a lot of them would be more loyal to the military than us. That and if we are caught, then we're going to be in a world of shit as our image takes a massive, massive blow.

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We don't have to hire ex-alliance tho right? I don't remember, did we sign an agreement with the government to do so in an earlier thread?

 

[Daemon Hunter]

l really hate how this chat is right now so peak human cost 400 reserch points so im using this as base. there only 7 groups at the moment we can give this treatment to without major backlash in my view so taking that into account we have 2800 reserch points towards this reserch. last turn we used around 4700 research points so if we agree right now and drop this dam fighting in chat we have 1900 spare research points left to mess around with and we satisfy everyone at the same time

so if people want to wait for all reseach go a head but above is an option that a good compromise if we all agree.

batarians we are at war with them so f those guys for now at least. vorcha yea they dont need it so much with there culture(well i dont think). quarians we actualy need other reserch so we dont kill them in the operation table so sorry for now (if we had a quarian resercher it be diffrent) krogan....the stuff we do is already illegal for most part the council overlooks stuff if its good out ways its bad and yea no krogans i love yous but we got a galaxy to help
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Turians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Asari)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Salarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Elcor)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Volus)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Quarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Batarians)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Vorcha)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Krogans)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Hanar)
Human Converted Gene Treatments (Drell)

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Research doesn't quite work like that due to the overflow system. If we do assume that it's a 400 RP research for each one, then we can finish the following:

Mordin + Lab I = One finished (not showing the math due to not needing to)
Part of Revy's (123.5) + Lab III = One finished
Part of Revy's (123.5) + Lab III = One finished
Part of Revy's (123.5) + Lab III = One finished
Hwan + Lab III + Lab I= One finished
Part of Revy's (212.5) + Lab II = One finished
1200 from Revy = Three finished

So, we could get 9 of them done, the problem is that would mean that our actual research heroes are going to have to work on their own without an actual lab as pretty much all of them have Biology skills of E. As a result, it's incredibly wasteful to actually go for all 9. If we want to rush it though, then I'd propose the following:

Mordin + Lab I = One Finished
Hwan + Lab III + Lab I= One finished
1600 Revy = Four finished
Lab II + 212.5 Revy = One Finished

Which gets us to a full 7 races being finished, but also leaving Gaven, Conrad, and Shatom a Lab III each to work with. Huh, I stand corrected then. It is viable to rush, although it's definitely not my preferred option. Do keep in mind though that if it is 800 RP per species, then we'd be limited to three a quarter if we focused it down.

Idea: we can release the treatments for free, and the use the goodwill generated from this to get the council to legalize our other biotech projects and start selling those.

We don't have to hire ex-alliance tho right? I don't remember, did we sign an agreement with the government to do so in an earlier thread?

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There's nothing that forces us to hire ex-alliance. It's just that if we did we'd see a quality drop, and I'm very happy to keep picking up high quality soldiers for our PMCs due to the increased trust that comes with them.

As for the biotech, that's what I'm hoping. Ideally we can use to get an AI license as well along with the Council giving us the green light for Extremis.

 

[Darkcore41]

First of imagine how it would look like if people found out that there is not only a cure for every single form of cancer but that it was kept hidden for years.

Second people aren't stupid. It is literally going to take time to make it so that each treatment is tailored to each race. Any one with enough knowledge on how such things work would figure it based on that simple logic.

This isn't about market prize or obligation. It's the fact that the argument 'let's keep every single treatment we make secret, letting numerous people ide, because people may be upset if we show favoritism towards the big 3' doesn't really make sense.

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When did we become their government or become obligated for their lives. Like I've pointed out if they were to complain about a treatment they had no reason to know was coming out then their spoiled. Of such obligations existed then the Tuarians killed people by not allowing their military to expand large enought to deal with slavers, the Asari don't share most of their life saving tech, Salarians don't share their genetic tech.

As pointed out if this was an issue then Biotech companies would be constantly hounded for their parents.

Your argument is based on nothing. My speculation about other races thinking the big three are getting favoritism makes sense based on their position. It would either look like killing up to them, under the table deals, or the big three getting what they want first as usual.

The way you talk it seems like our obligation is to flush everyone's toilets for them. This is why I don't like debating when you use speculations based on nothing. The other races then break out in riots when Shepard made the treatments only for humans they won't break out when she takes a little extra time to make something she didn't have to.

Edit: @Daemon Hunter extremis is very similar to the synthesis ending of mass effect. I suspect that's exactly what the Reapers want Shepard to do. Honestly I'm only against that because I don't want to give the Reapers what they want.

Edit2: if you really want to save lives based on obligations then break the cryptology of the four eyes. We have no idea how they bypassed SA defenses. Plus the Reaper interference could be found.

 

[Fanhunter696]

quarians we actualy need other reserch so we dont kill them in the operation table so sorry for now

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The one that is specified that we needed a researcher was for fixing their immune system, but I think that there is no such requirement for this action particular action...

 

[Daemon Hunter]

When did we become their government or become obligated for their lives. Like I've pointed out if they were to complain about a treatment they had no reason to know was coming out then their spoiled. Of such obligations existed then the Tuarians killed people by not allowing their military to expand large enought to deal with slavers, the Asari don't share most of their life saving tech, Salarians don't share their genetic tech.

As pointed out if this was an issue then Biotech companies would be constantly hounded for their parents.

Your argument is based on nothing. My speculation about other races thinking the big three are getting favoritism makes sense based on their position. It would either look like killing up to them, under the table deals, or the big three getting what they want first as usual.

The way you talk it seems like our obligation is to flush everyone's toilets for them. This is why I don't like debating when you use speculations based on nothing. The other races then break out in riots when Shepard made the treatments only for humans they won't break out when she takes a little extra time to make something she didn't have to.

Edit: @Daemon Hunter extremis is very similar to the synthesis ending of mass effect. I suspect that's exactly what the Reapers want Shepard to do. Honestly I'm only against that because I don't want to give the Reapers what they want.

Edit2: if you really want to save lives based on obligations then break the cryptology of the four eyes. We have no idea how they bypassed SA defenses. Plus the Reaper interference could be found.

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I've got to disagree with a lot of this stuff as what you point out are things that happen in universe. The Turians are blamed for slave raids, the Salarians for keeping their tech, and the Asari for their own hoarding. The issue is that for each of these races, what they decide is objectively best for them. Sure the Turians could build up further, but then their economy would crash and they'd overextend.

The same thing happens for Paragon Industries, we've got a reputation as being the pinnacle of science, and Mordin joined us because he believed we might hoard the biotech we had just for humanity. Spreading it to the other alien races is expected of us, and even if it the argument that it's the right thing to do isn't what leads to convincing you, it's also objectively the better thing to do for us.

If we assume that we could make a similar amount of money as we could have for the human treatments, we could make 50 billion credits per race for a total of 550 billion credits a quarter. We're looking at being able to make 20 trillion credits a quarter soon, meaning it'd make up just 2.75% of our revenue. Making it free would mean giving up just 3% of our profits, and in exchange we'd maintain and perhaps even improve our PR.

As for Extremis, I disagree. It's basically a nanite serum in this quest as far as I can understand, and while I can see the similarities, I also can't see the Reapers being able to actually use it against us.

For the cryptography, it doesn't save lives when compared to the genetic treatments. I can actually mathematically prove it:

Assuming casualties with cryptography solved are 50% less, and we're seeing WW2 level casualties (2% of the planetary population), that gives us 1% of humanity dying.

If we make the extremely drastic assumption that human population is equivalent to each other race out there, then we'd need to see the genetic treatments extending lifespans by 0.1% for an equivalent exchange.

Based on what we actually have however, we're seeing lifespan increases of around 25% per species, meaning that the genetic treatment is objectively better when it comes to saving lives.

 

[cageorks]

The one that is specified that we needed a researcher was for fixing their immune system, but I think that there is no such requirement for this action particular action...

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oh yea l know but its the immune system the problem here you cant introduce anything thats not completely sterile to there bodys without killing them and then the increase in food needed for new better body(human example peak athletes need more food/cal)... yea the quarians have a tough time as it is getting anything in surplus we can save 10 million of them but doom 7 more. so in my mind its really not a good idea without a quarian expert so we dont mess up.

 

[Darkcore41]

As for Extremis, I disagree. It's basically a nanite serum in this quest as far as I can understand, and while I can see the similarities, I also can't see the Reapers being able to actually use it against us.

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Not talking about using it against us. I'm talking about them wanting all life pushed in that direct as their goal. The synthesis ending of mass effect three essentially.

For the cryptography, it doesn't save lives when compared to the genetic treatments. I can actually mathematically prove it:

Assuming casualties with cryptography solved are 50% less, and we're seeing WW2 level casualties (2% of the planetary population), that gives us 1% of humanity dying.

If we make the extremely drastic assumption that human population is equivalent to each other race out there, then we'd need to see the genetic treatments extending lifespans by 0.1% for an equivalent exchange.

Based on what we actually have however, we're seeing lifespan increases of around 25% per species, meaning that the genetic treatment is objectively better when it comes to saving lives.

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Your thinking taw numbers from the intial attack not the knock on effects of something or somewhere critical being hit. I'll have to check where they hit last time but didn't they get close to hitting in the Sol system. If I'm correct then that's a potential decapitation strike. Not to mention what ever close that could lead to ending the war quickly, the influence we get from happing SA again.

I also find it hard to believe the other governments are going to trust what comes from humans and their home grown biotech companies are just going to allow this. We had it easy before because of influence, being human and having a non profit. The other races are likely to stop it at the government level and ask for the formula. At that point they do whatever with it.

It's horrible when a foreign government has more influence with your citizens then you do. It's what the Asari do or what Civ terms a cultural victory.

Edit: You've also misread what I said about the Tuarians. Dur to their need to be militarily dominate the other races were limited via treaty allowing slavers easy pickings. If they had allowed races to defend themselves then less lives are lost. Look in quest on how they renogotiate the treaty and that shows they could have done it any time to deal with the slavers.