Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

This is wrong, just because something can dodge doesn't mean it can't be hit by an immobile target. For example an anti-air gun could hit an air plane and a base with missile silos can fire missiles at fast moving targets.

I never said that it will never be able to hit.

Anyway, when dealing with range in space, what matters is the accuracy of hitting the target. The biggest issue is timelag. Light from the target needs to make it's way to you, and then your projectile or laser needs to make it's way back. In that short lapse of time, the target could move around, making it hard for you to get them. Now, obviously, the faster the target can move, the bigger the area where it can be.

So, in order to reliably hit a very fast target, you need to get close. Reliable hitting a slow moving target can be done from closeby.

The doesnt that mean that space stations offer a more stable platform for it guns than ships
And a more heavier gun

Gun stability was an issue in the 1900's, with battleships floating on the ocean. Mass Effect has inertia neutralizing systems. Gun stability is not at all affected by maneuvers.

And a slightly bigger gun isn't going to help you if you can't hit your target.
 
VI will ensure space stations can hit their target

VI are not magic. They can not cheat the laws of physics as they exist in the mass effect universe.

And one of those laws is that time travel is not a thing. As such, since the VI can not know the future, they can not know for certain the movements of the enemy ship, and thus they will miss most of the time.

Besides, the enemy can have VI's as well. They're not exclusive to stations. So, an improvement in accuracy for the VI just means your station gets sniped from further and further away.

And the space stations will likely have better shields and armor than ships

Offset by the fact that the attacking fleet will be larger than the defending fleet. The attacker can concentrate all his forces on one target, the defender must spread out his stations.
 
I also have to bring up... If the treaty is meant to prevent a expensive Superchips arms race... Why is it still focused on just the dreadnoughts? Carrier are directly competing with them in 'cost to build' and 'potential combat power'. dreadnoughts are still very important, but with the treaty up for re-negotiation, it's a perfect opportunity for the council to shoehorn them in. possibly word it in such a way to possibly include other ship types as they come into play

It's not.

The point of the treaty of Farixen is to limit the super heavy, ship breaking capacity of the galaxy by making the Hierarchy the top dog, the Council races the secondaries and giving everyone else too little to be a threat. This meant that any of the Council races could smack down any of the Council associate races, while the Turian Hierarchy couldn't run roughshot over the galaxy as the asari and salarians combined outnumbered them nicely.

This meant that a strong driving force behind building more and bigger ships carrying bigger guns was missing, and no nation would drive its economy to destruction on building big ships.

Carriers in space however don't have as much disproportionate strike capacity as they do in a gravity well, not least of which because in space the attrition on attacking smallcraft is humongous.
 
Huh, so, why shouldn't we actually look for a krogan battlemaster to look after Jack? There are bound to be some politically acceptable. One married to an asari matriarch or something. Galaxy is a large place, after all.
 
VR MMO. We could own the universe if we released 'Universe of Warcraft' at Blizzard quality levels. We would/should need to open up a game studio division to handle that for us though. We would own the souls of the universe guys! And then one of the expansions would start training everyone for evil cuttlefish from space/demons. :D
This is a thing we shouldn't develop in-house, but rather fund a few dozen start-ups as VCs. See: Google funding Niantic.

I think we should actually promote the treaty being primarily about weapon power/peak-energy. With hypermodularity it's easy for PI ships to swap out crappy treaty weapons for full power stuff. Should be as simple as a couple hours in the shipyard to unbolt the installed weapon system and install the new one. By having the treaty focus on weapons ParSec and the Alliance can build up a large fleet of treaty ships that can be easily be unnerfed.
Hah, I like this. I mean, if we were really being honest about trying to prevent costly arms races, we'd be advocating for the total fleet cost to be the thing that is restricted, but you're doing one better and ensuring that the new treaty is as completely meaningless in a real war as the old one was. Good idea! :)

An expanded market can be good, of course, but that also means competing against the races with an actual say in trade law, which is less than optimal. The war against the batarians might be the final push that makes humanity go "Those guys are assholes, let's do our own thing."
Access to the Citadel Market is vital to the Alliance's economy. IIRC it was mentioned that if the Alliance pulled out it's economy would pretty much collapse. So as much as it sucks they Council basically has the Alliance over a barrel; accept whatever conditions they demand or watch your economy implode and probably get conquered by the Batarians.
Wait, @Hoyr, could this possibly be correct? I mean, we're barely 18 years out from the First Contact War, and the Alliance has spent most of that time vacillating between fear of Turian invaders and fear of Batarian slavers; when the heck did the Alliance have the time to become dependent on the Citadel market for anything?

Frankly after the Council's completely flaccid and ineffectual response to Batarian aggression, combined with this whole "renegotiation" of Farixen, I'm starting to think that @Tranquil Zebra might have the right idea on the SA deciding to kick the Citadel to the curb and join the Terminus, and I'm curious as to what the actual repercussions of that would be.

By the way, not the whole ship. Just the Wave Motion Gun or a useful approximation.
Repulsor blasts are basically wave motion guns, so the Repulsor Canon/Particle Beam/Go Away beam upgrades would do what you're asking.
 
One of the problems of building a space station with dreadnought + mass drivers is that you need to shove in a dreadnought sized eezo core to run the whole thing....or bigger.

Then there is the fact that even eezo doesn't fully negate recoil, so you would either have to put engines on it or make the whole thing have enough mass to tank a 40 kiloton or higher impact round and not move an inch.

Because believe it or not, in outer space mass still applies, so a man in a space suit will still be incapable of moving a massive steel girder with his hands.

Neither does shooting an assault rifle act like a thruster if fired in outer space.
 
It will not matter
VI will ensure space stations can hit their target
And the space stations will likely have better shields and armor than ships
Your not getting it man. A ship just has to stay a light minute away from the station and plink away at it while moving around, and the station can't hit the ship because the ship will see the incoming kinetic round with ample time to move out of the way.
 
The SA should actually be able to remove itself from the Council economy by the time canon rolls around.

It's mentioned that by that time, they have an economy compable to the Elcor....

You know, the same guys who are said to be immune to trade embargoes cause they can pretty much build anything thanks to their Oort Cloud?

The only thing that should concern SA the most at that point is eezo.
 
Carriers in space however don't have as much disproportionate strike capacity as they do in a gravity well, not least of which because in space the attrition on attacking smallcraft is humongous.

... of course they're not Superior. Mearly equivalent (or only somewhat weaker) then dreadnoughts. dreadnought is more likely to win in a straight up fight with one, but it's by no measure a sure thing compared to other lesser ships. There were serious considerations in ME cannon on whether to add the carriers to the Treaty of Fraxin in cannon. They are in the same price range as dreadnoughts. They have the same force protective capabilities as dreadnoughts. Abet in a very different fashion.
IE, their expensive ships that tend to get deployed on a strategic level, and devastating to an enemy fleet if they do not have their own equivalent, a a level that is not comparable to smaller ships (battleships, cruisers, ect..)
By no means would they be worth re-writing the treaty by themselves (as shown in cannon). But now that it is being re-written? I would fully expect the Turrians to bring the issue up and add them. ether as a lesser equivalent to the dreadnought, or in a separate section added to the treaty. Just to maintain their position as the top military power.
 
Your not getting it man. A ship just has to stay a light minute away from the station and plink away at it while moving around, and the station can't hit the ship because the ship will see the incoming kinetic round with ample time to move out of the way.

Not unless the station can fire off 90%~99% c weaponry of any type.

....We could totally rig up an electron laser station, have it fire from the other side of a planet, make the beam curve around the planet via it's magnetosphere and vapourise at least frigate sized craft with relative impunity.
 
Not unless the station can fire off 90%~99% c weaponry of any type.

....We could totally rig up an electron laser station, have it fire from the other side of a planet, make the beam curve around the planet via it's magnetosphere and vapourise at least frigate sized craft with relative impunity.

A 99%c weapon would still be visible enough to react to in time if the ship was more than a couple of light minutes away. Meanwhile kinetic weapons just keep going. Plus, dispersion problem. You aren't going to keep coherency of a beam longer than a limited range.
 
@Hoyr How costly would it be to build defense stations above planets? Would the SA find defense stations a useful investment? I was thinking of using them to guard planets instead of needing spaceships freeing up how many planets the fleets needed to respond to when they are attacked.

Expensive? Shit ain't cheap even after you take out the eezo core and the main thrusters. We're talking billions to trillions depending on how big and well defended that thing is.

Thing is ninty-nine times out of a hundred a ship is a better investment even if it is a monitor. Assuming tech equality. The Hanar have a defense grid at their homeworld but it's basically the vast majority of their space forces. (In quest a not insignificant portion may be scraped to fund the new navy.)

By the way, would it be possible to build these things?

Go Away Beams are under the particle weapons branch of the tech tree.

So do we need to lobby to get a pass on immobile dreadnought level weapons or is it already there?

I'm going to say that the immobile exception is there. Basically no one uses it.

Also does Mindoir have a moon and if so does it have an atmosphere?

... unless someone can find an update that says there is one I'm gonna say no.

@Hoyr how expensive would it to outright buy an already existing factory In earth orbit.

Expensive, not the least of which because you'd need to remodel it.

I also have to bring up... If the treaty is meant to prevent a expensive Superchips arms race... Why is it still focused on just the dreadnoughts? Carrier are directly competing with them in 'cost to build' and 'potential combat power'.

Carriers maybe discussed at some point. This isn't a one quarter negotiation.

Huh, so, why shouldn't we actually look for a krogan battlemaster to look after Jack? There are bound to be some politically acceptable. One married to an asari matriarch or something. Galaxy is a large place, after all.

Politically acceptable to the SA, not the rest of the galaxy. And there isn't a reason against a Krogan helping. It's just that it's far easier to have a human be the one legally responsible.

Besides you have had a Krogan Battlemaster helping. He's been seeing if Jack can lean to bisect people at range instead of at melee ranges.

Wait, @Hoyr, could this possibly be correct? I mean, we're barely 18 years out from the First Contact War, and the Alliance has spent most of that time vacillating between fear of Turian invaders and fear of Batarian slavers; when the heck did the Alliance have the time to become dependent on the Citadel market for anything?

Wiki claims that an asari embargo would "prove disastrous to the Alliance". This is not just a dependency thing this is also due to the power of Alliance companies in Council Space. EAE a human company is rapidly climbing to the point were it can strongly effect the galactic price of He3 (in canon it basically could). You've screwed that up a bit, but whatever. Fusion reactors aren't going away over night and they do a lot of other raw materials.

The council would be far more able to deal with any shock from loosing the Alliance than vice versa. Post First Contact the companies moved quickly to take advantage of the opportunities that Citadel space offered (especially with humans being the new flavor) and as it helped grow the Alliance's economy the government let them if not encouraged them*. (The asari of course smiled and let them tie themselves to the Citadel even if it meant short term losses) The vast majority of major Alliance companies would experience critical failure if the Citadel kicked them out.

*This of course created a not insignificant reactionary force in politics and society.

I mean hell look at PI, look how helpful Citadel arc-reactor sales have been.

So yes that is apparently a thing. I could buy it. 18 years is more than enough for businesses to try themselves into a galactic economy. EAE for example would basically never support leaving the Citadel and they basically controls voting seats.


In other news the next update is half done, so hurry up and vote darn it! :p Actually it's just the Construction Production portion where I don't have to do much other than say "The SA wants frigates now, give me a plan that fulfills that."
 
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Eh. It made perfect sense at the time. Notice how there were plans to mass produce the things for sale on the Citadel market? Plans that, amusing enough, you were one of the bigger supporters of. We were going to revolutionize massive amounts of the galactic economy through the use of Repulsors but then the Alliance said no.
Is there anything to stop us deliberately leaking Repulsor tech to the Citadel races?

now the Reapers have access to the exact same tech.
I wonder how long it takes to refit the engines on a Reaper. The things aren't exactly designed with upgrading or modularity in mind.

What do people think of creating factory ships that eat asteroid belts and fabricate orbital architecture?
A smashing idea that is actually very difficult to implement.

To do it you essentially have two options:
1) Take a ship and fill all the cargo compartments with mining/refining/construction equipment. This leads to having a very small factory that can only make fairly small things. Making full orbital industry basically involves going to a system and building a small factory to build a medium factory to build the factory you actually want.
2) Take an orbital factory and bolt engines to it. This is less a ship than a station that can be very slowly moved from place to place.

A clause to add: Restrictions do not apply during times of war.

Then we build a bunch of ships and immediately mothball them. Rotate 'reserve' crews through active ships to keep them reasonably trained. Thus the active fleet stays under the limit but if a war breaks out you can expand very quickly.

Revy: "Well there is a hyper advanced race of omnicidal space cyborgs comprised of whole races harvested by them over millions of years killing untold billions or even trillions who are after me specifically. So yeah, unless you are guys are always going have a fleet to protect me I would be alot safer if I had at least one supership of my own."
SA "We already assigned an entire Fleet, including a Dreadnaught, to protecting you. Not your planet, you personally."
 
I wonder how long it takes to refit the engines on a Reaper. The things aren't exactly designed with upgrading or modularity in mind.

We don't often see them building things so it's hard to tell. They do refit human corpses really fast and those aren't designed for upgrading or modularity either. :p

Is there anything to stop us deliberately leaking Repulsor tech to the Citadel races?

Getting caught? Your better off just waiting for someone studying the arc-reactor designs to put two and to together. Repulsors are ironically the easier of the two techs.

Screw it bed time see you all tomorrow
 
A 99%c weapon would still be visible enough to react to in time if the ship was more than a couple of light minutes away. Meanwhile kinetic weapons just keep going. Plus, dispersion problem. You aren't going to keep coherency of a beam longer than a limited range.
Yeah, there is a reason that mass drivers are pretty much universal, also in space. Lasers can be very precise for very long ranges, but outside of a limited focus range, they are basically just flashlights. Fusion lances, magnetically contained plasma carronades, and other, similar sci-fi weapons are also vulnerable to loss of cohesion at range. A tungsten telephone pole cruising along at .1c does not. That's why Sir Isaac Newton is STILL the deadliest sonuvabitch in space!

Also, as far as weapons tiers go, better mass drivers just means the slug is bigger and faster. Lasers are powerful because they bypass shields and move at c, not because they transfer more energy to the target, or are otherwise more reliable. Turreted lasers make for great CIWS, but hull materials are supposed to handle reentry on smaller ships, and dreads would vent loads of coolant. If not for kinetic barriers, ME battles would consist of missiles, AM missiles, flak and other CIWS. Modern fighters engage with missiles from well out of visual and autocannon range, and I see no reason for that to change.

Do you remember the final space battle of ME, by the way? I almost wept when I saw unguided, chunky KKV's moving sedately towards Sovereign, fired from within knife-fighting distance The devs did not quite get the c-fraction speeds right. The writers talked a good game in the Codex, but long distance artillery matches were apparantly so boring that we never saw a fleet battle as described in the fluff.
 
About materials, we (as in IRL) have a few advanced materials at least in laboratory settings but ours are really low grade, the ceramic armour is a good advanced material, the stuff that you can get for the ship in ME3 which was partially self repairing IIRC would be on the border between advanced materials and meta-materials which is stuff that can do weird things like programmable matter or a cloth weave that exists partially in another dimension (that's what allows the ghost suit in nu-XCOM, Marvel has a good meta-material in vibranium which absorbs all sound/vibrations that hit it another which also borders unobtainium is adamantium which is nearly unbreakable, put the two together and you get something like Captain Americas shield which absorbs most of the force directed against it and almost always returns to his hand.
 
VR MMO. We could own the universe if we released 'Universe of Warcraft' at Blizzard quality levels. We would/should need to open up a game studio division to handle that for us though. We would own the souls of the universe guys! And then one of the expansions would start training everyone for evil cuttlefish from space/demons. :D
Integrate crafting into it based on our technology, and magic based on math / theoretical physics, and subtly use the players as distributed computing networks.
 
A form of unobtainium would be a self regenerating material that can pull mass from pretty much nowhere, think the leviathans (living bio-mechanical ships) from Farscape (old sci-fi show), they only need the crew to get a little bit of some rare types of matter every now and then.
 
@ Factory ships: We already have hyper-modularity. What stops us to apply that concept to factories? Make the individual factory modules (relatively) easily transportable, then you just need some small transporters or a big one to move a factory. Would also enable us to quickly remove stuff from dangerous areas.
And creating a factory would mean create the dedictated modules, transport to construction site, setup and test. That should speed-up factory construction.
 
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