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Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

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Are large planetary defense space stations ala Halo ODP one of those cyclical discussions along with Mk 2 armor and mecha? Or for that matter, the obsession with super large ships & stations in general. It's like the rule of cool or something. (Seriously, every time I read a Halo x ME crossover, the ship size comparisons...ugh)

The only advantages bigger ships (and stations) get are better defenses, and in canon ME, better range. That does not say anything about how cost-effective they are. It's noted in canon that dreadnoughts are incredibly expensive, and that their purpose in the fleet is range and first strike capability.

From what I can tell in the tech tree and prior discussion, as Revy-driven tech progresses, offense & mobility & detection are going to trump static defense more and more at the same relative costs. And as pointed out, DEWs will have innate range limitations, and the range for KEWs in space is a matter of weapon speed & accuracy versus target's mobility & detection capabilities, the latter of which is going to improve much faster than the former, especially with QEC technology.

So from my point of view, the most cost effective way to wage battles in space in the future is:
1) massive swarms of drones that:
1a) are fighter or corvette-sized (cheap, whatever is smallest size possible for below requirements)
1b) are QEC-connected a.k.a FTL communication
1c) are FTL-capable
1d) have some type of weapon or utility and/or shielding (whether a single drone should have it all depends on cost efficiency)
1e) incorporate hypermodularity so that drones could somehow connect together for the times when you need single point of larger offense or defense
2) salvage corvettes to recover eezo, undamaged components, and other limited resources from inevitable attrition after a battle
3) factory/refinery/carriers (separate or combined) to support the drones and corvettes

That covers pretty much all the use cases I can foresee, even shielding planets (detect ship or KEW round, QEC to closest drone(s) for FTL intercept), with the exception of ground invasion/occupation (though it can still provide support there).

It's not really sexy, and is actually kinda terrifying, but it would be efficient.

edit: and by "static defense", I'm including armor and shields there (I'm contrasting against offense and mobility)
 
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The only thing static defenses can do is buy time. If a space station / ground based weapons / reality distortion whatever takes time to disable or circumvent, you upped the required power (fleet size) of the attacker and bought time for a defense fleet to arrive.
If there isn't any defense fleet, the attacker needs one factory ship, an asteroid belt and time to overcome static defenses.
 
Hoyr said:
ANI Gaming: Your existing ANI games continue to see growth. Not much has occurred since the last tournament, but people continue to play games, obsess over details, and give you money. Some of your employees have suggested making a VR MMO. Others have pointed out that it would be expensive take a while to make and doesn't directly fit the companies main goals. Better to let another company do it. Galaxy of Fantasy will probably add a VR update to use the new tech a some point anyway.
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Can we enter a partnership with the company that produce Galaxy of Fantasy ?

Slayer Anderson said:
On the note of Jack: Foster/Adopt her and hire a Krogan Battlemaster to be our joint bodyguard/biotics tutor. Interact with Jack through biotics lessons and slowly wean her back into normal human interaction.

...maybe we get Wrex as a tutor?
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Here's a better idea : get Thane instead. We're a religious icon to the Hanar, so if we were to ask them if they could lend us their best, there's a good chance it'll be Thane.

End result : awesome bodyguard, biotic trainer for Jack, ninja trainer for Kasumi and since it's a retainer job, Thane has every reason in the world to bring his family, so the chance of his wife dying drop drastically. Everyone wins.

Hazard said:
Mark2s require RPs and production. Production isn't a problem, but RPs are a limited resource for us.

Buying already made equipment just costs cash. Cash we've got more of than we know what to do with. It's also intended as a stop gap solution, a proper one can be done later.
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We'll have to get the Mk2 sooner or later anyway. Because no mater how much some people are constantly going on about how space battles are the end all be all, planet-side engagement are still going to be a thing and the Reapers have already proven that they can do better then our Legionaires.

Moreover, it'll also galvanize the other races into trying to improve their own suits all the more so they don't end up left in the dust. The better our suits become, the better those of the other races will be themselves as competitiveness drive them forward.

And I don't care how much you people masturbate to your fucking ships, ground battles WILL happen, that is an inescapable truth and I, for one, want to ensure the survival of as many soldier as possible by giving them the best fucking gears in the fucking galaxy, which we aren't, as the Reaper battlesuit proved.
 
Deathwings said:
We'll have to get the Mk2 sooner or later anyway. Because no mater how much some people are constantly going on about how space battles are the end all be all, planet-side engagement are still going to be a thing and the Reapers have already proven that they can do better then our Legionaires.

Moreover, it'll also galvanize the other races into trying to improve their own suits all the more so they don't end up left in the dust. The better our suits become, the better those of the other races will be themselves as competitiveness drive them forward.

And I don't care how much you people masturbate to your fucking ships, ground battles WILL happen, that is an inescapable truth and I, for one, want to ensure the survival of as many soldier as possible by giving them the best fucking gears in the fucking galaxy, which we aren't, as the Reaper battlesuit proved.
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If I get you correctly, that means license arc reactors galaxy-wide once the Reaper threat becomes known?
 
Maybe a minor project is designing a modular prefabricated military base that can be rapidly put up almost anywhere that can also build any necasary equipment, go full on Terran sort of thing.
 
newwriter said:
It will not matter
VI will ensure space stations can hit their target
And the space stations will likely have better shields and armor than ships
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That's incorrect. An immobile space station is in huge disadvantage against any highly mobile target. Lets assume that a station is trying to shoot a target one light second away. There are no FTL sensors, which means that the stations optical sensors only know where their target was a second ago (If they use some type of radar, then it's two seconds). When the station shoots, it will take another second for the laser beam to reach its target. This means that the station's VI will have to guess where the enemy will be in two seconds, which is almost impossible when your target is moving hundreds of kilometers per second.
 
Deathwings said:
End result : awesome bodyguard, biotic trainer for Jack, ninja trainer for Kasumi and since it's a retainer job, Thane has every reason in the world to bring his family, so the chance of his wife dying drop drastically. Everyone wins.
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... Or we might not get Thane.

Deathwings said:
We'll have to get the Mk2 sooner or later anyway. Because no mater how much some people are constantly going on about how space battles are the end all be all, planet-side engagement are still going to be a thing and the Reapers have already proven that they can do better then our Legionaires.
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Ground combat superiority will mean nothing if we can't effectively contest space. That is why we are considering investing in space combat technology and doctrines to the extent we are right now, as Legionary ground combat capacity is sufficiently great that investing more research into a Mark 2 suit instead of add ons is not a requirement to greater combat capacity.

Deathwings said:
Moreover, it'll also galvanize the other races into trying to improve their own suits all the more so they don't end up left in the dust. The better our suits become, the better those of the other races will be themselves as competitiveness drive them forward.
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This might be worth considering as a factor.

Deathwings said:
And I don't care how much you people masturbate to your fucking ships, ground battles WILL happen, that is an inescapable truth and I, for one, want to ensure the survival of as many soldier as possible by giving them the best fucking gears in the fucking galaxy, which we aren't, as the Reaper battlesuit proved.
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Except that we don't know how much effort the Reapers had to expend towards creating that suit. It might well have cost them effectively billions of credits equivalent that got flattened with an expenditure of drones orders of magnitude less. I don't want to give our soldiers the 'best fucking gear in the fucking galaxy,' I want to give our entire military the best godsbedamned warmaking package that we can, and that means not neglecting one theatre of war for another.

And, well, I repeat myself, but right now that means investing in space combat. Where, unlike in ground combat, the SA is lagging behind the Citadel.
 
Hazard said:
... Or we might not get Thane.
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And somehow that's justification to not even try ? Please. :eyeroll:

Hazard said:
Except that we don't know how much effort the Reapers had to expend towards creating that suit. It might well have cost them effectively billions of credits equivalent that got flattened with an expenditure of drones orders of magnitude less. I don't want to give our soldiers the 'best fucking gear in the fucking galaxy,' I want to give our entire military the best godsbedamned warmaking package that we can, and that means not neglecting one theatre of war for another.

And, well, I repeat myself, but right now that means investing in space combat. Where, unlike in ground combat, the SA is lagging behind the Citadel.
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The ironies of what you're saying is killing me there.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
I will read through the hundred or so comments later, but I just want to point out this would be absolutely evil.

And we should totally do it.
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It could be about a lone hero born on a colony world, trying to leave a footprint in the greater galaxy. With upgrade options for super intelligence, biotics and strange alien starter race (geth for example). With a DLC where you can discover your own sentient species!
 
Deathwings said:
And somehow that's justification to not even try ? Please. :eyeroll:
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If we want to look for a good parental figure for Jack we are not likely to get Thane. If we were looking for a bodyguard maybe, but that's not Thane's skillset.

Deathwings said:
The ironies of what you're saying is killing me there.
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... Your inability to comprehend that the Alliance has a considerable per soldier advantage in ground combat but not in space combat amazes me.
 
So I just finished the chapter and didn't want to lost this thought through reading all the replies. Forgive me if this has already been brought up.

Can we renegotiate the treaty of Farixen to form a combined Citadel fleet? Something that is ostensibly not under any of the member governments but functions more like the SPECTERs in being directly under the command of the council. Every member needs to devote some of the production of ships to providing ships so if they build 4 dreds then they have to build another for said fleet. While the Turians would still ostensibly be the peacekeepers this would be a purely military force. Something that the Citadel can actually use as a stick for the Terminous without compromising the policing force.
 
funny thought I had, arm the hanar fleet with our most advanced tech, hanar fleet defeats reaper fleet, hanar credited with saving the galaxy, all hail our new tentacle overlords!
 
Ryune said:
So I just finished the chapter and didn't want to lost this thought through reading all the replies. Forgive me if this has already been brought up.

Can we renegotiate the treaty of Farixen to form a combined Citadel fleet? Something that is ostensibly not under any of the member governments but functions more like the SPECTERs in being directly under the command of the council. Every member needs to devote some of the production of ships to providing ships so if they build 4 dreds then they have to build another for said fleet. While the Turians would still ostensibly be the peacekeepers this would be a purely military force. Something that the Citadel can actually use as a stick for the Terminous without compromising the policing force.
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Why would the Turians, as the allocated defenders of the Council races, go for that?
Who would pay/care for maintenance?
Which shipyards would be used, what about proprietary technology?
What is the reason you'd provide why a (extended) Council fleet is needed?
 
tri2 said:
funny thought I had, arm the hanar fleet with our most advanced tech, hanar fleet defeats reaper fleet, hanar credited with saving the galaxy, all hail our new tentacle overlords!
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Which Reaper fleet? Talking now about a Reper fleet simply gets an appointment with a psychologist.
 
MTB said:
@ Factory ships: We already have hyper-modularity. What stops us to apply that concept to factories? Make the individual factory modules (relatively) easily transportable, then you just need some small transporters or a big one to move a factory. Would also enable us to quickly remove stuff from dangerous areas.
And creating a factory would mean create the dedictated modules, transport to construction site, setup and test. That should speed-up factory construction.
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You need again at least as much transport capacity and room for the worker.

But a mobile factory would be easy to hide from atackers.

@Hoyr
1. With the Treaty changing would the SA have interest in ships of dreadnought+ sized vessels for logistic purposes? Like a mobile dock to service a fleet outside of standart logistic range?
2. To go "Homeworld" what size of ship would be good? Super dreadnought or X sizes larger?
 
Portec said:
You need again at least as much transport capacity and room for the worker.
But a mobile factory would be easy to hide from atackers.
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A dedicated front-line fabriactor for ammunitions would be nice (fabricator ship).
A means to quickly (dis)assemble factories, too - when we have to deny enemies our means of production without blowing them up, or to quickly fortify forward outposts.
With hyper modularity we might get both quickly - a fabricator ship is basically a fabric with engines, FTL and Eezo core. Landing capabilites optional.
 
So on the subject of Static Defenses might I make a suggestion for an alternative to a large space station, namely a bunch of smaller missile platforms hidden under some stealth tech. Basically they remain cloaked at all times and when something threatens the colony they decloak and launch their entire arsenal of missiles into the enemy ships one they are in range.
 
MTB said:
A dedicated front-line fabriactor for ammunitions would be nice (fabricator ship).
A means to quickly (dis)assemble factories, too - when we have to deny enemies our means of production without blowing them up, or to quickly fortify forward outposts.
With hyper modularity we might get both quickly - a fabricator ship is basically a fabric with engines, FTL and Eezo core. Landing capabilites optional.
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The best would be to have multiple factory elements on different smaller ships (cheaper to build) that connect together to create the complete factory.

Ammunition is secondary. MAC and laser don't need it (or ignorably little). They would need maintainance more. Missiles are easier to transport so having a supplyship would be more manageable.
 
Portec said:
The best would be to have multiple factory elements on different smaller ships (cheaper to build) that connect together to create the complete factory.

Ammunition is secondary. MAC and laser don't need it (or ignorably little). They would need maintainance more. Missiles are easier to transport so having a supplyship would be more manageable.
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'Complete factory' is kind of just a scaling issue - add more modules, get more capacity. If that is feasible, we may simply reuse our frigates, add some factory modules, make them dockable to form an ad-hoc complex and are finished.
Ammunitions: Lasers have the dispersion problem once fog grenades are deployed.
Having emergency production capabilies on the frontlines makes you partially independent from shipping, which means less convoys which means less escorts.
 
MTB said:
Why would the Turians, as the allocated defenders of the Council races, go for that?
Who would pay/care for maintenance?
Which shipyards would be used, what about proprietary technology?
What is the reason you'd provide why a (extended) Council fleet is needed?
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Because it's not about a defensive fleet. This is explicitly about having a fleet for those Terminous powers that they can't deal with. Crews would likely be taken from any member race and combined crews would be standard where the only engineering crews would be exclusively of the ship builder race.

The Member who built them. This is intended as both an economic and military cost. You have to pay for it as if it was a part of your fleet and it's under the command of a "neutral" third party.

Again, I point to the Terminous. A place of lawlessness where slavery is practiced on citadel citizens. Where pirates run rampant and criminal empires make their home. And the Turians either don't have the will or the capability to go after them with their policing responsibility. They certainly have the military might to do it, but to do so they would have to leave worlds unguarded. Obviously, the council needs a way to project power without compromising the Turian ability to defend worlds.

Because the Council fleet as it is, is purely for defending the citadel and council itself. What happens when the next Rachni war happens? The next Krogan rebellions? The Citadel Council controls 2% of the galaxy. That is an impressive amount of real-estate. It is not however 100%. As humanity has shown, it's not like the Council has to open up a relay from their side for another species to join up with their side of the network. There is no way to guarantee that the council races will be both numerically and technologically superior to the next species to come onto the block and a way does not exist to close that can of worms after it's open and no way to stop it from opening itself. Just that we don't open it ourselves. Thus, having an offensive fleet means that we have some way to go on the offensive or reinforce a position that comes under a sudden attack.

On another track, it also launches the idea of co-operation with other powers. As a joint species task force you are forcing those species into close quarters where they have to work together. It helps to build empathy and understanding between species and hopefully will assist in diplomatic relations and finding diplomatic solutions when a commander has interacted with members of a culture long enough to come to a greater understanding of them. For instance, the Turians don't actually have a native understanding of civilians. Everyone can be a combatant because they all have mandatory military service. This caused problems with the occupation of Shanxi that still echo through humanity. What if they had Asari and Salarians aboard the ship? People who could talk counter to invading a species who opened up a relay from the other side with no possible knowledge of Citadel law?

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MTB said:
@ Factory ships: We already have hyper-modularity. What stops us to apply that concept to factories? Make the individual factory modules (relatively) easily transportable, then you just need some small transporters or a big one to move a factory. Would also enable us to quickly remove stuff from dangerous areas.
And creating a factory would mean create the dedictated modules, transport to construction site, setup and test. That should speed-up factory construction.
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Factorio IN SPAAAAAACE?
 
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That would be perfect if it could be pulled of (except for the part where the Terminus powers get amalgated to counter the offensive fleet). A galaxy cooperating on this level, without a threat that forces them to - welcome to the Federation of Stars (ME). I'd really like that to see.
Unfortunately, I don't see it flying in this galaxy. The big three aren't the big three for nothing, and they are comfortable with the way they managed stuff for the last few thousand years. Terminus is no bigger threat than always, humanity is handled (no need to change anything).
So, why should the established powers change?
 
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