Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

You can try. That's what the some other project section is for. You'd have to convince both the Citadel and the SA government. Each has different objections.

Well alright then if thats the case I say we start as soon as possible since this could take awhile

[] Transhuman lobbying, Systems allience: We have a project involving using super nanites to create super people but it's currently illegal, why don't we change that?

How is this? Anyone have any suggestions?
 
and what if that weapon is largely ineffective in orbital bombardment like a laser is? how does that factor in. because i noticed that you specifically mentioned anti-city weapons.

Up for debate. It's all getting reworked.

I'm willing to invest a fair amount in our construction company, personally. How much would it cost to set up GUARDIAN towers on colonies?

Bog standard turrets cost 100 million each. One arc-reactor can power quite a few.

Do we have the tech on-hand to make factory ships?

You can make frigate sized ships with factories in them yes. I recall talking about his and concluding that smaller frigates could only hold a small factory.

At a guess, based off US Carrier Strike Groups, the Fourth Fleet probably consists of;

The full fleet is much larger, but that's probably whats in orbit; the rest are off doing other things. One carrier less though and in general take the number of big ships multiply by 4-6 and that's the number of frigates. Recall that a cruiser group is a cruiser and a wolf-pack and a dreadnought or carrier also has it's own wolf-pack usually.

The US numbers are pretty screwed up because our Navy has had expensive ship-ittis for a while.
 
Limit Dreadnoughts! Fine! I mean I kinda want one for ourselves anyways at some point but I can live w/o it. I mean our swarm of frigates and cruisers with no limit and no end will more than salve that slight.

Sure our cruiser can take out 4-15 dreadnoughts no sweat, but it's NOT a dreadnought! NO limits Citadel, neeneer neeener! :V
...as I recall the Treaty is primarily concerned with the number of dreadnoughts a race has. We're moving to an all-frigate diet doctrine that focuses on smaller, fleeter warships able to hunt down those four-eyed slaver scum to their dens and burn them out with the purity of a thousand-thousand suns better guard our worlds from opportunistic and unaffiliated raiders. Given that we currently have no need desire to fight another polity's fleets, and thus little need to match Dreadnought with Dreadnought, I think we end up with a salable commodity for, effectively, nothing.

This concerns me.

I think the two of you have missed something important: The current definition of a Dreadnought is "Any ship with a spinal weapon longer then 800m" and the proposal is to change that to "Any ship with a main gun with a power/energy output greater then X".

So if we were to, for example, slap TW lasers on a fighter it would be legally considered a Dreadnought under the revised treaty.
 
I think the two of you have missed something important: The current definition of a Dreadnought is "Any ship with a spinal weapon longer then 800m" and the proposal is to change that to "Any ship with a main gun with a power/energy output greater then X".

So if we were to, for example, slap TW lasers on a fighter it would be legally considered a Dreadnought under the revised treaty.
Wow, yea gonna need to corrupt that, cause that buttfucks the SA and us super hard :p
 
Okay, so...

On the Farixen front, if we choose to lobby, I think one of the main objectives for our lobbying should be to make sure that no one pushes to count ships owned by PMCs registered with a Citadel member state against that member state's total allotment of ships/weapon energy/etc...

Basically meaning that ParSec's ships/weapons shouldn't factor into the SA's total. Unlikely, but possible.

I'd also want to prep some loopholes for us to eventually take advantage of when we get small ships that can form warship-megazords, just so we don't get fined every time we 'form the head'.

...and, hey, while we're at it, see if we can't argue away any tonnage or size limitations.

On the note of Jack: Foster/Adopt her and hire a Krogan Battlemaster to be our joint bodyguard/biotics tutor. Interact with Jack through biotics lessons and slowly wean her back into normal human interaction.

...maybe we get Wrex as a tutor?
 
Different fanfic not this quest.

I'm saying that it will be part of the contract if we hire him.

As in this:
On the note of Jack: Foster/Adopt her and hire a Krogan Battlemaster to be our joint bodyguard/biotics tutor. Interact with Jack through biotics lessons and slowly wean her back into normal human interaction.

...maybe we get Wrex as a tutor?

It's less anger and more that Jack see violence as a perfectly valid tool for dealing with personal interaction.

Ah, well that makes a few differences.
 
Okay, so just off the cuff I'm thinking of a frigate-sized micro-factory ship that can fabricate specific items (missiles, primarily, but general machine-shop stuff as well) for the duration of the hostilities. They follow the primary fleet around and eat asteroids, spitting out the sort of odds & sods a fleet needs, including (when the materials are on hand) the missiles the fleet is so greedily eating up. Ideally I'd like to have a dreadnought-sized factory ship, but that's a "in the future" thing.

Alternately, maybe some sort of deep space cache system, where a guarded ship drops the cargo and ships in need of resupply cycle back to it?

On speculation, the Pydnas are herding the Batarian fleets together so that Admiral Hackett can fight another decisive engagement with them, presumably with Pydnas waiting in the wings to harry the stragglers.

Bog standard turrets cost 100 million each. One arc-reactor can power quite a few.

Assuming we get a 20% discount for using advanced materials in the construction (build four and get the fifth one free!)...anyone else feel like using our shiny new construction company to build turret networks on colonies and call them tax write-offs? Say that we make a network of five turrets per capitol city (and also giving a colony an arc reactor to keep the lights on), make the colony that much safer from casual raids while freeing up troops to garrison another under defended colony world making for a sort of 'herd immunity' to the planets (making fewer and fewer of the potential targets profitable enough that there's less profit to be had, and thus pirates are less likely to harrass the people there)

At the end of hostilities, I'm thinking either Paragon Industries can sell the towers to the planet (the preferred option, giving the colony control over their own skies) or maintain them in exchange for tax benefits/other concessions.

So if we were to, for example, slap TW lasers on a fighter it would be legally considered a Dreadnought under the revised treaty.

The first, and possibly lulziest, reaction I have to this is to have multiple just-under-dreadnought-weight laser ships that are accompanied by a ship built around a big magnifying glass. Sort of like how the Death Star has a bunch of little lasers that By Your Powers Combined into a bigger laser that can Aldaraan something.
 
I think the two of you have missed something important: The current definition of a Dreadnought is "Any ship with a spinal weapon longer then 800m" and the proposal is to change that to "Any ship with a main gun with a power/energy output greater then X".

So if we were to, for example, slap TW lasers on a fighter it would be legally considered a Dreadnought under the revised treaty.
We should make it a goal to put TW lasers on some power armour and have Revy legally declared a Dreadnought. Also, we should make sure that companies can purchase rights to Dreadnoughts.
 
Okay, so...

On the Farixen front, if we choose to lobby, I think one of the main objectives for our lobbying should be to make sure that no one pushes to count ships owned by PMCs registered with a Citadel member state against that member state's total allotment of ships/weapon energy/etc...

Basically meaning that ParSec's ships/weapons shouldn't factor into the SA's total. Unlikely, but possible.
No chance of that ever getting through. It might make for a good negotiation point that can be conceded on for something more reasonable but that's about it. The treaty is fundamentally about limiting arms races and buildups so having an obvious loophole like that would negate the whole point of the treaty. Not to mention that ParSec is considered an extension of the Alliance with a thin veneer of being independent.

...and, hey, while we're at it, see if we can't argue away any tonnage or size limitations.
This should be pretty easy since the limitation seems to be more on weapon power. This is a loophole the Alliance exploited in the old version of the treaty, Carriers, and the Council felt no need to close it in canon so odds are it will still be there in the revised treaty.


I think we should actually promote the treaty being primarily about weapon power/peak-energy. With hypermodularity it's easy for PI ships to swap out crappy treaty weapons for full power stuff. Should be as simple as a couple hours in the shipyard to unbolt the installed weapon system and install the new one. By having the treaty focus on weapons ParSec and the Alliance can build up a large fleet of treaty ships that can be easily be unnerfed.
 
Plus if they're focusing on things like lasers and mass drivers, that's focus not going to fighters, missiles and harshly-worded letters.

@Hoyr I presume the Council would be less than entirely charitable about limited run nanite warheads that consume a ship's hull on contact? I'm thinking of deconstructer nanites that run off an Arc Reactor (of course!) on the warhead, and the warhead is programmed at launch to explosively detonate after a variable time.

Also anti-starship acid globber rounds. It's like playing paintball, but where your face gets melted. (Someone help me BS a reason why sonic weapons would work in space)
 
ANI Gaming: Your existing ANI games continue to see growth. Not much has occurred since the last tournament, but people continue to play games, obsess over details, and give you money. Some of your employees have suggested making a VR MMO. Others have pointed out that it would be expensive take a while to make and doesn't directly fit the companies main goals. Better to let another company do it. Galaxy of Fantasy will probably add a VR update to use the new tech a some point anyway.

Yeah, I don't see why we should really get into the game development business. Advancing technologies that would benefit gaming, sure, but the actual games themselves? Better leave that to the game industry.

I'm already somewhat uncomfortable with the amount of toes we're starting to step on. Every update I'm expecting more industry backlash.

Sucks we can't make SG1 like Replicators yet.

I, for one, am very glad.

If we're going to be making AIs, I want them to be as similar to us as possible, ideally like uploaded humanity.

Replicator mentality is far too alien or antithetical to us.

Treaty Negotiations: The Treaty of Farixen is being renegotiated. As we are a weapons company that makes starships we should consider some lobbying. From what we have heard there are two proposals on the table, restrictions by weapon energy level and/or power level, and re-balancing the restrictions based on economics, possibly with dreadnought allowances being salable (mostly to avoid issues with Turian fleet levels).

In the second idea, each government's dreadnought allowance would be proportional to their economic power. Additional dreadnought allowances might be bought from other governments not using theirs or possibly from the Citadel. A more extreme option suggests making each government's fleet be proportional to their economic power and doing away with dreadnought restrictions; it is not a very very popular option.

We could support one or some combination of the two or suggest our own plan. Remember that the goal of the treaty is to prevent an expensive arms race and to put a minor limitation on anti-city weapons with repeated use. We also could lobby directly or work though the Systems Alliance.

How long are we expecting these negotiations to take? Considering this is such a massive and expensive shift in galaxy military policy that is NOT after a galaxy-level conflict, and drawing from Earth's UN history, I'm expecting these negotiation to last years.

That should give us ample time to disrupt the status quo again and again, and force further renegotiations.

I'd also want to prep some loopholes for us to eventually take advantage of when we get small ships that can form warship-megazords, just so we don't get fined every time we 'form the head'.

That's the primary "loophole" I'd aim for as well. With hyper-modularity, inspiration from multiple eezo cores, and further energy/weapon miniaturization, we can start treating the ship itself as more of an abstract concept that's composed of starship components neatly encapsulated within "frigates". If you can somehow combine the firepower and defenses of multiple frigates into effectively a single entity, then we basically have virtual dreadnoughts.
 
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No chance of that ever getting through. It might make for a good negotiation point that can be conceded on for something more reasonable but that's about it. The treaty is fundamentally about limiting arms races and buildups so having an obvious loophole like that would negate the whole point of the treaty. Not to mention that ParSec is considered an extension of the Alliance with a thin veneer of being independent.
If the same economic limits applied to private companies it might work out. The idea would be that governments can't just create proxy companies at will because the sheer size required to meet the economic requirements for even a single extra dreadnought means that simply purchasing another dreadnought license would be less expensive. Naturally, this still allows us to build stuff based off our independently gained economic wealth.
 
No chance of that ever getting through. It might make for a good negotiation point that can be conceded on for something more reasonable but that's about it. The treaty is fundamentally about limiting arms races and buildups so having an obvious loophole like that would negate the whole point of the treaty. Not to mention that ParSec is considered an extension of the Alliance with a thin veneer of being independent.
We could lobby for a PMC's dreadnought count to not be counted against the member state's cap but require that the PMC buy a dreadnought allowance either from the Citadel or from a member state that has a surplus before being legally allowed to possess a dreadnought. That way member states don't have to deal with PMCs they don't control eating up their dreadnought allowance while making sure that you can't use PMCs as a loophole.
 
I think we should actually promote the treaty being primarily about weapon power/peak-energy. With hypermodularity it's easy for PI ships to swap out crappy treaty weapons for full power stuff. Should be as simple as a couple hours in the shipyard to unbolt the installed weapon system and install the new one. By having the treaty focus on weapons ParSec and the Alliance can build up a large fleet of treaty ships that can be easily be unnerfed.
For some reason, it's this more than anything else that makes me convinced we're properly emulating the Washington Naval Treaties, it's not even on a piece of paper yet and we're already planning on simply swapping out the weapon mounts whenever we feel like finally breaking the Treaty's limitations. The IJN would be so proud.

We should make it a goal to put TW lasers on some power armour and have Revy legally declared a Dreadnought. Also, we should make sure that companies can purchase rights to Dreadnoughts.
I really don't think we should push for Corporate Dreadnoughts, PI doesn't need one for one thing, two- it's going to make a lot of people nervous if Revy get's something that significant under her direct command, and three- do you really want other corporations to be able to make Dreadnoughts? Suddenly Cerebus get's to construct some Dreadnoughts with a lot more ease than they otherwise would be able to.

It's just not worth it for the costs, especially we can feasibly make specialized cruisers designed to gut capital ships like Dreads. TIR with Repulsor weaponry, or use mass salvos of ASMs at close range etc. Just like in real life, attack subs make battleships a risk proposition.


Edit: I can't scream hard enough that no PMC ever needs a goddamn dreadnought. THat's like saying Blackwater should be allowed a Fleet Carrier, or that it was totally okay for Outer Heaven to have nuclear weapons.
 
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I really don't think we should push for Corporate Dreadnoughts, PI doesn't need one for one thing, two- it's going to make a lot of people nervous if Revy get's something that significant under her direct command, and three- do you really want other corporations to be able to make Dreadnoughts? Suddenly Cerebus get's to construct some Dreadnoughts with a lot more ease than they otherwise would be able to.

It's just not worth it for the costs, especially we can feasibly make specialized cruisers designed to gut capital ships like Dreads. TIR with Repulsor weaponry, or use mass salvos of ASMs at close range etc. Just like in real life, attack subs make battleships a risk proposition.

Well how many corparations can actually afford dreadnoughts? That and we can build factories inside the dreadnought. Also I just want at least one just as a status symbol of how much power we have.
 
It occurs to me that a large scale arms race might actually be a good thing. The more ships the Citadel nations create in their arms race the more ships we have to fight the reapers.
I really don't think we should push for Corporate Dreadnoughts, PI doesn't need one for one thing, two- it's going to make a lot of people nervous if Revy get's something that significant under her direct command, and three- do you really want other corporations to be able to make Dreadnoughts? Suddenly Cerebus get's to construct some Dreadnoughts with a lot more ease than they otherwise would be able to.
I'm perfectly happy with making people nervous, encouraging paranoia is a perfectly valid way to prepare for reaper invasion. Also, any company large enough to own a dreadnought will probably be under intense scrutiny, forcing Cerebus to stay on their toes if they want to avoid detection.
 
What did the Batarian Hegemony claim as its Casus Belli when they sent the official declaration of war?
 
No chance of that ever getting through. It might make for a good negotiation point that can be conceded on for something more reasonable but that's about it. The treaty is fundamentally about limiting arms races and buildups so having an obvious loophole like that would negate the whole point of the treaty. Not to mention that ParSec is considered an extension of the Alliance with a thin veneer of being independent.
Beyond the fact that any such clauses would apply to the Citadel races as well and they've been around long enough to accrue some possibly very big PMCs with their own warships...I'm not sure if the Turians/Asari/Salarians would be willing to sign off on something like that if it meant having to tally their PMCs' weapons in with their national totals.

Also, what about warships owned by PMCs registered directly with the Citadel instead of with a racial/national faction?

...for that matter, will this even be considered? I mean, have privately owned Dreadnoughts been a thing?
This should be pretty easy since the limitation seems to be more on weapon power. This is a loophole the Alliance exploited in the old version of the treaty, Carriers, and the Council felt no need to close it in canon so odds are it will still be there in the revised treaty.

I think we should actually promote the treaty being primarily about weapon power/peak-energy. With hypermodularity it's easy for PI ships to swap out crappy treaty weapons for full power stuff. Should be as simple as a couple hours in the shipyard to unbolt the installed weapon system and install the new one. By having the treaty focus on weapons ParSec and the Alliance can build up a large fleet of treaty ships that can be easily be unnerfed.
That's definitely an idea I can support.

Also, an interesting thought I had if Dreadnought-class weaponry get allotted by economics. Who has one of the biggest Economies?

It might actually turn out that the Volus do, considering their deep involvement in galatic banking.

Wouldn't that be wild? The Volus getting one of the largest fleet allotments?
 
Well how many corparations can actually afford dreadnoughts? That and we can build factories inside the dreadnought. Also I just want at least one just as a status symbol of how much power we have.

And that's why we'll never be allowed to have one. No one, and I mean no one wants a corporation militarily powerful enough to field it's own goddamn battlegroup. And we can *build* dreadnought scale ships and fill them with factories and whatnot without making them Dreadnoughts. I'm pretty sure ME has mega freighters that mass similar amounts.

Having a Dreadnought is equivalent to the Citadel admitting we're a megacorporation capable of invading small nations on our own. It's such a mindbogglingly bad precedent that they'll fight tooth and nail to prevent it.

I'm perfectly happy with making people nervous, encouraging paranoia is a perfectly valid way to prepare for reaper invasion. Also, any company large enough to own a dreadnought will probably be under intense scrutiny, forcing Cerebus to stay on their toes if they want to avoid detection.
"I'm perfectly happy doing something that agitates everyone and is so obviously a biased agenda everyone will unite in shouting down that proposal". Throw money down the drain instead. You'll get more out of it. Council Licensed dangerous research? Gone. Goodwill in C-space? Gone. Image as a militant humanitarian? severely tarnished. Reputation for always acting in the Alliance's best interest? Disputed. This is such a retardedly controversial thing I can't consider a genuine proposal for it seriously.

And Cerebus, the people in canon who owned the biggest shipyards of the SA and have numerous supporters in the upper echelons of the SA's military? Yeah no, they're going to be able to get Dreadnoughts if we pass this proposal.
 
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Plus if they're focusing on things like lasers and mass drivers, that's focus not going to fighters, missiles and harshly-worded letters.

@Hoyr I presume the Council would be less than entirely charitable about limited run nanite warheads that consume a ship's hull on contact? I'm thinking of deconstructer nanites that run off an Arc Reactor (of course!) on the warhead, and the warhead is programmed at launch to explosively detonate after a variable time.

Also anti-starship acid globber rounds. It's like playing paintball, but where your face gets melted. (Someone help me BS a reason why sonic weapons would work in space)
As long as the nanobots aren't self-replicating and aren't at any risk of causing a gray goo scenario the Citadel will probably be okay with using disassembler swarms. The main problems are the power requirements to disassemble things down to their component molecules(solved with the Arc Reactor) and being large enough relative to the target to cause significant damage in a useful amount of time(problematic against starships since the payload of a missile is quite small so the swarm will be correspondingly sized. It won't work fast enough to do appreciable damage during the time it takes for a space battle and once the battle is over they could divert effort towards neutralizing it).

I really don't think we should push for Corporate Dreadnoughts, PI doesn't need one for one thing, two- it's going to make a lot of people nervous if Revy get's something that significant under her direct command, and three- do you really want other corporations to be able to make Dreadnoughts? Suddenly Cerebus get's to construct some Dreadnoughts with a lot more ease than they otherwise would be able to.

It's just not worth it for the costs, especially we can feasibly make specialized cruisers designed to gut capital ships like Dreads. TIR with Repulsor weaponry, or use mass salvos of ASMs at close range etc. Just like in real life, attack subs make battleships a risk proposition.


Edit: I can't scream hard enough that no PMC ever needs a goddamn dreadnought. THat's like saying Blackwater should be allowed a Fleet Carrier, or that it was totally okay for Outer Heaven to have nuclear weapons.
There is a precedent for corporations having dreadnoughts, the Elkoss Combine built the dreadnought Kwunu although they did gift it to the Vol Protectorate and the Turian Hierarchy upon completion.
 
Assuming we get a 20% discount for using advanced materials in the construction (build four and get the fifth one free!)...anyone else feel like using our shiny new construction company to build turret networks on colonies and call them tax write-offs? Say that we make a network of five turrets per capitol city (and also giving a colony an arc reactor to keep the lights on), make the colony that much safer from casual raids while freeing up troops to garrison another under defended colony world making for a sort of 'herd immunity' to the planets (making fewer and fewer of the potential targets profitable enough that there's less profit to be had, and thus pirates are less likely to harrass the people there)

Heh. This is a great example of the cyclical nature of discussions in this quest. This was brought up and shot down almost a year ago:
Hm. Well if we assume that every planet has an average of 3 cities and the SA has a current total of 50 planets, going off the Human worlds list, for a total of 150 cities then we could put a GARDIAN tower and Arc Reactor to power it in every city for 15,225m credits. If we wanted to be more secure a trio of towers in each city would put us back 45,675m, a mere 9.7% of our total budget for this quarter.
There has to be more to it than that, or the Alliance would have done it already; as you've said, protecting 150 cities with GARDIAN towers is cheap, and kind of a no-brainer considering the politics. Maybe there are hundreds, even thousands, of "undocumented" colony towns scattered over each of the 50-100 human colony worlds? Maybe these towns don't properly register with the Alliance colonization board, and only have a few hundred, or thousand people each? That actually seems likely, given that the whole premise of being a colonist in the first place is to get away from an overcrowded planet and its "oppressive" government(s), and moving to an officially-sanctioned city with hundreds of thousands of other people is kind of the opposite of that.
Thing is even just protecting those cities is massively going to increase the overall safety of everyone on the planet. Because now raiders have have to fly between the areas protected by GARDIAN towers and if given sufficient warning, QEC sensor drone at the closest relay, it may even be possible to evacuate to within the GARDIAN's protection umbrella.

Basically even if it doesn't perfectly protect our planets it still makes them a lot less attractive for raiders.
What I'm saying is, and I'm asking @Hoyr to back me up, that the large cities probably already have GARDIAN towers; like I've said, it's too stupid for them not to. The outlier towns, on the other hand, probably don't, and since the first thing the pirates do it take out comms they're the ones that get screwed. Putting GARDIANs in ~150 cities? Easy. Putting GARDIANs in thousands, or even tens of thousands of small towns, many of which are doing their best to hide from the government? Hard.

Remember the reason that Horizon was ever able to happen at all was because the GARDIAN system was specifically offline, not even fully installed, and in fact was only recently installed because before that the citizens refused let them be installed because it would tie them too closely to the Alliance.
What I'm saying is, and I'm asking @Hoyr to back me up, that the large cities probably already have GARDIAN towers; like I've said, it's too stupid for them not to.
In Canon? We never see them, shame really.
In Quest? Due to events at the beginning many do, some don't and some people are idiots.
 
They follow the primary fleet around and eat asteroids, spitting out the sort of odds & sods a fleet needs, including (when the materials are on hand) the missiles the fleet is so greedily eating up.

This was part of the reason that we licensed out our missile production tech. Such support isn't really needed (and we're going to be stuffed with Pynda orders anyway).

Something to keep in mind though; a new Treaty of Farixen actually favours the System's Alliance and Paragon Industries.

This may sound contradictionary but the reason for this is very simple; Paragon Industries is allowed to sell weapons tech only to the Alliance, and we get a lot more bang for our bucks than the Council Races do. This means that every ship we produce for the Alliance is cheaper and more effective than Council equivalents to produce, operate and maintain, so a numbers parity engagement between a fleet of Alliance vessels versus a mixed group of Council race ships would generally favour the Alliance.

And we can maintain a disproportianally large amount of them compared to our economy because they are cheaper than they should be.

In many ways we don't have the Council's strategic depth of territory and manpower in a time of war. A war against any one member of the Council, never mind all of them, is ill advised and costly. But if the STGs are the exemplar espionage formation in the galaxy, the Hierarchy's military the exemplar conventional military and the asari Huntresses the special operations experts from hell, the Alliance is shaping up to being the heavy shock and assault force noone wants to face due to sheer technological advantage making them hard to kill while hitting hard.
 
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