Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

There's no point in staged roll-out. Literally none. It doesn't prepare society for the shift. If anything, a staged roll-out where instead of "engineering skills" we put out "samsung engineering skills" is worse in terms of societal affect, I feel. It is better to start rolling out these general skill packages, as it creates more of an impact. At the very least full law and medicine packages should be rolled out as soon as possible, so any member of society could make use of them as quickly as possible.

You do seem to have forgotten what P&P is actually capable of again.

A P&P skill is a chip that contains a VI neural network containing some skill set(s) that you plug into a ANI. It's basically a emulated sub-sapient/sentient mass of brain tissue in a sense. The chip, brain and ANI take a while to negotiate the connections so that the user can access the skill. Generally this takes a few days to a week during which the user should be practicing the skill both to accelerate the connection, but also just to get used to having it.

From there the use has access to the skill (though adapting to having it can take more effort), the user can either learn the skill from the chip or build on top of the chip's skill. The latter has the issue that the expanded skill set isn't worth much if the chip is removed.

In gamist terms PnP skills let the user act as though they had up to a 4* in the skill depending on quality, once it's calibrated. Which skills? Pretty much any non-knowledge skill (That's usually covered by having access to the raw information). Creative skills experience a -1 penalty. The difference between performing a piece of music and writing one if you will, creative skills tend to draw to much on a person's holistic experience to make good work for the P&P skills to perform optimally.

- Unaware (That's a thing you can learn to do?)
0 Untrained
1 Beginner
2 Novice
3 Professional
4 Veteran (~4 Year Degree)
5 Expert
6 Elite
7 Legandary (Hawking (Astrophysics) and Tesla (Electrical Engineering) as well as Revy (Physics and Engineering) live out here)
As noted you can treat the skill chip as a trainer, or you can train additional points. Just note that if for example you have a firearms 4 chip and train firearms 5 removing the chip disables the 5th rank until you train ranks 1-4 or re-install the chip.

How many skills at once? The lesser of your natural logic or intuition scores. Revy can have 6. Most people can have 3 or 4.
Active skills only. Martial arts? Sure. Dance? Absolutely. Law? Medicine? Not actually available. And you can only have a very limited number of skills on the chip at once, chip disabled or removed and you lose access. And it's a hardchip. No beaming skills to it, they have to be installed and they take days before you can actually use them.
 
Next people are going to be against immortality tech. And yes, I know people already are.

One point in the release: the idea of a quick release was to provide the boost for the alliance over the other races. Because asari, at least, are perfectly capable of skill transfer. Remember the cypher? Yes, I know, there are probably limitations. But I'm willing to bet they can be overcome. And if the entire written and spoken language can be transferred, cross-species, with no need for implants, in a matter of seconds? Yeah, asari can pull out some serious tech if threatened.
 
Next people are going to be against immortality tech. And yes, I know people already are.

One point in the release: the idea of a quick release was to provide the boost for the alliance over the other races. Because asari, at least, are perfectly capable of skill transfer. Remember the cypher? Yes, I know, there are probably limitations. But I'm willing to bet they can be overcome. And if the entire written and spoken language can be transferred, cross-species, with no need for implants, in a matter of seconds? Yeah, asari can pull out some serious tech if threatened.
All we're saying that tech actually has consequences. I've been getting the impression that you think technology will Solve Everything Forever, that it will somehow cause sweeping social change with no blowback whatsoever. That only perfect ideal outcomes will occur, and negative effects will pass us by. You seriously can't just ignore stuff like that.
 
All we're saying that tech actually has consequences. I've been getting the impression that you think technology will Solve Everything Forever, that it will somehow cause sweeping social change with no blowback whatsoever. That only perfect ideal outcomes will occur, and negative effects will pass us by. You seriously can't just ignore stuff like that.
I am not ignoring stuff like that. I am just saying that, in my opinion, restricting technology just plain doesn't work. I can't actually remember any historic example where it worked. Neither can I remember an example of technological revolution destroying a society. Closest I can think of were Luddites, but they were dealt with, and I think society learned their lessons.
 
But Pydnas don't come armed, so unless you've added extra to the construction cost to account for that, those are military grade civillians. Also, the proposal was for TRILLIONS of credits worth of frigates. We can't meet that demand even with a shipyard 3.

That number was using the full 15k production of a normal 100m Frigate. The Pynda would be less. We actually can match that; 192 Frigates per quarter gives 768 per year.

Given 301.5 trillion over 30 years that comes out to 10,050 billion per year which at 768 ships per year puts each one at 13,085,937,500cr. With the 20% profit margin @Hoyr mentioned at some point for ships that puts the manufacturing cost at around 11 billion credits. I'm estimating, roughly, higher end Pynda's at costing 15 billion credits and selling for 18 billion.

So we could absolutely meet demand with a single Space Factory III.

Until we start selling people TIR shielding.

Thing is TIR shielding kinda beats everything anyway. Since with TIR shielding no one can see you but QEC + The Invisible Man equipped sensor drones means you can see them.

oh oh

better idea

we buy all the old outdated dreadnoughts, give them TIR shields and then sell them back for massive profit.

While it would certainly be profitable it would almost certainly ruin our reputation.
 
I understand that they are awesome in there security potential, i'm just questioning their use in the immediate future assuming an assault (ala the Skyllian Blitz). Do we know how expensive they will be or how large the are? because we will likely need invisible man or maybe even the TIR before the drones become useful/not a bucket of wasted money. It just seems to me that we have some things with a higher priority than the QEC.
Gondor calls for aid!

Wouldn't surprise me if the same was true for education.
It's true. I was recently working in the mailroom at a small-ish university I'd never heard of before (1800 students), and the current cost for a year of classes there is about $48,000. It's been increasing by $1300 - $1400 per year (we'll call it $1350) pretty steadily for the last decade. So, for 4 years of education, current first-years will pay $200,100 ($48,000 + $49350 + $50700 + $52050).
Do you see the problem here?
 
*everyone freaking out over P&P skills*

All the augments against P&P skills I've seen seem to treat it as a traditional economic problem. Which is wrong. So, so wrong. Like, using Newtonian equations to calculate stuff in a Relativistic domain wrong.

This sort of tech will definitely change the fabric of economics, culture, and society. So you should all stop trying to use traditional metrics to try and quantify and predict its effects.

If you want to prevent social upheaval, you should vote in a project to examine the effects it would have and how to best do it.
 
If you want to prevent social upheaval, you should vote in a project to examine the effects it would have and how to best do it.
So, basically, we need to develop psychohistory. I am all for it, actually. It exists in canon in some form (the whole cycles thing does allow Reapers to predict and observe patterns of societal behavior). And developing it might delay Reaper attack, if they see us as coming with a solution.

You know, getting to a cultural victory, instead of a military one, would be quite an achievement.

I'm also for developing better psychological testing and profiling, to let people learn about themselves and where they'd be happier working.
 
It exists in canon in some form (the whole cycles thing does allow Reapers to predict and observe patterns of societal behavior). And developing it might delay Reaper attack, if they see us as coming with a solution.

The cycles thing is less predicting history so much as both; rigging the game with the relays and the citadel, and that the reapers and catalyst have an incredibly blinkered view of the galaxy. All evidence is interpreted to fit their viewpoint, they're kind of asshats that way. I imagine that was the species who were butchered by them's main complaint about their behaviour, that they're hard to argue with.
 
So, basically, we need to develop psychohistory. I am all for it, actually. It exists in canon in some form (the whole cycles thing does allow Reapers to predict and observe patterns of societal behavior). And developing it might delay Reaper attack, if they see us as coming with a solution.

You know, getting to a cultural victory, instead of a military one, would be quite an achievement.

I'm also for developing better psychological testing and profiling, to let people learn about themselves and where they'd be happier working.

What most people don't realize is that it's called Social Science and Social Engineering for a reason. It is possible to create models that predict how people will behave and to create systems that will get people to act a certain way, it's just that people and the interactions between people are a lot more complicated to model than say atoms. For the longest time, we just haven't been able to do any quantifiable predictions of behavior for this exact reason, but that's a technological issue. There are projects going on right now that are trying and succeeding to quantify human behavior.

We should have no problem doing this in quest.
 
except that introduces the PROBLEM with Time Travel, Prophecies, and Seers

it makes everything so freaking BORING

Not really, given the variance between individuals, it's pretty useless at predicting individual behavior. In the Culture, it's called The Simming Problem: to make simulations that can predict real life, you have to make them so realistic that the simulated people are basically the same as the real people. Essentially, a Matrix in the movie sense.

But for our quest, the amount of processing power needed to do so would rapidly become untenable. So it would be more of a social engineering tool, something that could give rough probabilities of certain types of behavior emerging and propagating. Like a infectious disease model, except with behavior.
 
What most people don't realize is that it's called Social Science and Social Engineering for a reason. It is possible to create models that predict how people will behave and to create systems that will get people to act a certain way, it's just that people and the interactions between people are a lot more complicated to model than say atoms. For the longest time, we just haven't been able to do any quantifiable predictions of behavior for this exact reason, but that's a technological issue. There are projects going on right now that are trying and succeeding to quantify human behavior.
If you ever read the Foundation series by Asimov, that kind of prediction is the axis of the plot. They are able to predict social change and behavior of an entire galaxy over hundreds and even thousands of years into the future, without realtime adjustment, and are able to do it with an incredible accuracy, but are utterly unable to predict the actions of individuals. And it screws the protagonists over when a single individual outside the paradigm shows up.
 
There's no reason to think it's a thing. Like, I read the Foundation series with psychohistory and all. It was pretty fun!

Complete and total nonsensical gibberish, but fun. It makes for a decent premise to explore in a work of fiction, it does however fall apart completely when you apply any knowledge about social complexities, or hell, even just computing limitations.
 
There's no reason to think it's a thing. Like, I read the Foundation series with psychohistory and all. It was pretty fun!

Complete and total nonsensical gibberish, but fun. It makes for a decent premise to explore in a work of fiction, it does however fall apart completely when you apply any knowledge about social complexities, or hell, even just computing limitations.
That was partly a product of the times. It was written in the 1950's-1960's if I remember correctly. Back then, modern computing a la microchips would've been unfathomable. If someone thought of a computer, they either thought of mechanical computers like the Mk. I Fire Control Computer in use by the USN until it was retired in the 1970's, or the building sized monstrosities that were vacuum tube computers. Both were highly limited and incredibly specialized and market penetration for such was basically limited to the Military and Universities.
 
Thing is even just protecting those cities is massively going to increase the overall safety of everyone on the planet. Because now raiders have have to fly between the areas protected by GARDIAN towers and if given sufficient warning, QEC sensor drone at the closest relay, it may even be possible to evacuate to within the GARDIAN's protection umbrella.

Basically even if it doesn't perfectly protect our planets it still makes them a lot less attractive for raiders.
What I'm saying is, and I'm asking @Hoyr to back me up, that the large cities probably already have GARDIAN towers; like I've said, it's too stupid for them not to. The outlier towns, on the other hand, probably don't, and since the first thing the pirates do it take out comms they're the ones that get screwed. Putting GARDIANs in ~150 cities? Easy. Putting GARDIANs in thousands, or even tens of thousands of small towns, many of which are doing their best to hide from the government? Hard.

Remember the reason that Horizon was ever able to happen at all was because the GARDIAN system was specifically offline, not even fully installed, and in fact was only recently installed because before that the citizens refused let them be installed because it would tie them too closely to the Alliance.
 
If you ever read the Foundation series by Asimov, that kind of prediction is the axis of the plot. They are able to predict social change and behavior of an entire galaxy over hundreds and even thousands of years into the future, without realtime adjustment, and are able to do it with an incredible accuracy, but are utterly unable to predict the actions of individuals. And it screws the protagonists over when a single individual outside the paradigm shows up.

UGHHHH! Forget about fucking Psychohistory.

To get back to my original point: If people are worried about the effects of P&P, put an action towards finding out what those effects might be.
 
And we have failed to make a compromise.

Indeed :confused:
A compromise of using an action to analyze its potential impact on society is a good idea. using this action to get some opinions of other experts and government/military officials would also be helpful, and possibly essential to us not screwing the pooch on this on.

Just to make sure. Are we giving this away for free too?

I don't think the immortality tech should be free for a long time (if ever). It is far too valuable and it will probably be very expensive. Nor should we announce it until we have versions for all races. the political backlash of it being human-only would be immense.
 
I do!

I paid 48k for two bachelors degrees. Even worse is that was in Australian dollars which are generally quite a bit weaker then American. Hell even Bond, Australia's only private university, only costs 80k for your standard 3 year bachelors and that's where the rich people go to buy a degree!
Can I move to Australia?
 
...
I also think immortality should be free actually.
Once we've identified and solved (for sufficient/given values of solved) the inevitable problematic social and economic consequences of an imortal population, at least. Tax payers footing the bill for that one might as well be the government simply loaning them the money, if everything else ticks over as it should and the "saturated labour market" issue is solved.

... i think i manage to confuse people sometimes by managing to be both conservative (very cautious about change), while having generally left-leaning economic views. Heh. (most of my political leanings don't come in the same bundle in most people's views of politics :D)
 
...
I also think immortality should be free actually.
Once we've identified and solved (for sufficient/given values of solved) the inevitable problematic social and economic consequences of an imortal population, at least.
Fine, whatever as long as its later. I don't even care what the economic issues/benefits around a race of immortals are, all I care about is the fact that the council will freak about the fact that many races will now have a knock off of the sort of population growth that made the Krogan Wars a possibility.
Once we have a seat on the council we can think about it.
 
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