- Location
- United States
⇑This
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
Dark Ness
Rises Where Silence Dies
- Location
- The Primordial Soup
I wonder if we can just cut out humanity and go straight for "give Revy a seat."
- Location
- United States
Seems reasonable. That doesn't mean that it and a lot of other technologies we develop aren't dangerous or can be dangerous via their consequences or misuse. I'm fine with using/releasing the various technologies we develop for profit, just as long as we do so carefully and with full knowledge of the possible consequences and the chances of them happening.
hello everyone, i´m just a lurker that decided to comment here and I wondered why nobody cared about creating a jamming/EW tech. like in the gundam franchise, there were always a form of jamming that forced everyone to use a sight only tech; and we could calibrate it to make our enemies aim sistems going wonky. did someone like my comment ? if not I would like to know why we shouldn´t invest into it.
HanEmpire
Delicious
Humanity is Minbari? I can get behind that, at least in respect to jamming technology.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Well, "free to the consumer" isn't quite the same as "paragon eats all the costs".
But yeah, the vast majority of things we figure out and produce most certainly should be sold for the best profit we can manage. some are just sufficiently disruptive that they need to be handled carefully while others, like imortality (and, really, healthcare in general), should be applied more universally than human economic systems tend to manage to distribute, well, Anything without deliberate intervention.
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The problem with jamming is....
What are you jamming? What sensors and comunication evices are being used?
From memory you'd have to jam radar, optical, and thermal, for sensors, and lasers, radio, and, quantum entanglement to jam comms. Some of those are rather difficult to jam without screwing yourself over, others jamming and/or countermeasures already exist for (some of it's even paragon tech! Or will be once we finish eveloping/deploying it.)
Sooo... probably need to be a bit more specific.
But yeah, the vast majority of things we figure out and produce most certainly should be sold for the best profit we can manage. some are just sufficiently disruptive that they need to be handled carefully while others, like imortality (and, really, healthcare in general), should be applied more universally than human economic systems tend to manage to distribute, well, Anything without deliberate intervention.
Edit:
The problem with jamming is....
What are you jamming? What sensors and comunication evices are being used?
From memory you'd have to jam radar, optical, and thermal, for sensors, and lasers, radio, and, quantum entanglement to jam comms. Some of those are rather difficult to jam without screwing yourself over, others jamming and/or countermeasures already exist for (some of it's even paragon tech! Or will be once we finish eveloping/deploying it.)
Sooo... probably need to be a bit more specific.
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Research
In Omni-tool Upgrades under Tech Damage. Omni-tools apparently use neural input. Doesn't say they produce any neural feedback though, just basic nerve sensing stuff.
Of course it's in the research blurbs which I've shown to be questionable in the past so YMMV.
More or less. Each race still has their own currency, the credit is is just an exchange standard that is based on the relative strength of the citadel economy (which is probably fueled largely by the Asari as you note, followed by the Salarians and Turians).
I've figured out how to resurrect them already! Gaver Dor has at least one new tech as well, all to blame on that Geology class!
Medicine/First Aid is an active skill isn't it? My stuff says it is...
Law would be Etiquette + Negotiation + Law Database and support VI (Two skills and a resource)
I think, SR make some odd skills knowledge skills... I was thinking more along the lines of D&D's knowledge (whatever) skill... as I said my main objection was raw data, hmm... may have to refine my thinking on that stuff.
I haven't been reporting any values with profit margins as those are their own special mess everything should be build values.
I have also maybe figured out a better way to make this work yay!
In Canon? We never see them, shame really.
In Quest? Due to events at the beginning many do, some don't and some people are idiots.
Oh also @TheEyes I've redone the math for a lensless FEL (a few questionable assumption were made, but I fairly sure their on the high side). Lost of mirrors/lens mainly hurt close range performance and you still don't need gamma ray lasers. Not that they wouldn't help them be better weapons, but you don't need 'em.
Short version? Every one already uses sight tech for long range sensors. Passive Infrared, if you want to be specific, as well as some more "normal" visual light stuff. Active sensors such as Lidar and Radar are close range things for getting detail out and not particularly important for aiming.
In game we have a stealth/cloaking tech (unresearched yet) for dealing with Passive IR and visual light; TIR stealth is what it's called.
Anyway... on the subject of redoing things... here my current plan. I have two (three?) things I'd like to get processed now. Then news, then planning. I'm intending to give @UberJJK's proposal a try first, a bit modified but same general idea. Minimal changes to the base setup, but maybe all we need.
If that doesn't work we'll go farther.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
Citation needed here. Krogan problem was that they didn't regulate their own population growth. We know that salarians do, quite strongly. Asari could absolutely outbreed the rest of the galaxy by a lot, yet they don't. Pretty much all galactic community participants have some population control. If anything, immortality tech might decrease population growth.
Not releasing immortality is a crime against humanity, pure and simple. I can agree with restricting it based on criminal record, where people carrying life sentences don't get life extension. But restricting immortality based on income? No. F*ck that. F*ck that with a dreadnought gun. This is what the taxes and the governments are for, so we as a society could strive.
- Location
- Leeds
How do I cite speculation? These are my own thoughts and I didn't rely on a source.
Which of my assumptions do you disagree with and maybe I can help explain.
And for gods sake read my qoute, I said LATER. Its like you think the Reapers will roll over and die without any help from us.
This x10.
Now that I think about it, the canon ME universe is likely already post-work, at least in the sense that there is not enough meaningful work to fully occupy and employ the human population. The existence of VIs alone mean that the only people needed to run the entire manufacturing sector is a handful of engineers, and the service sector is completely obsolete save for "booth babes" to run front-of-house, and fool customers into thinking that they are still doing business with a person, when in reality all transactions go through a console VI.
As I see it, there already has to exist some sort of guaranteed subsistence wage, even if it's a largely make-work endeavor like the WPA in the Depression-era US, otherwise you'd end up with something like 60-80% of the population starving in the street with nothing to do other than have bread riots. Hell, with our gutting of the He-3 energy sector and improved VI algorithms we've probably already added another 5% to that statistic by ourselves. In fact this might be where @Yog's space magic slavery as a viable economic model comes in: maybe the Batarians take this percentage of the population and force them to work, thereby providing at least a minimum of productivity.
I disagree with a supposition that a sudden unlimited extension of biological lifespan would cause an explosive uncontrollable growth in space-faring civilized populations of ME galaxy. I disagree with this notion based on canon evidence of Salarians (who practice population control religiously), Asari (who are, essentially, close to biological immortality, able to live for about a thousand years), Krogans (yes, Krogans - they are already biologically immortal, but said immortality was never stated to be the reason for their problems). Life expectancy is rarely, if ever, the limiting factor of population growth in post-industrial societies.
I do not think so. I also think that we won't defeat Reapers in a month, or a year or even a decade if it comes to full on galactic warfare. Any conventional war with the Reapers, barring use of super weapons, is likely to take hundreds of years, and devastate multiple worlds, potentially all of them. It is not going to be won through simple military might, even if said might could result in galactic races winning every single engagement. To win, to survive, to triumph, long-term measures maknig the existent society resistant, or, better yet, immune, to complete destruction of all garden worlds currently inhabited, are required, at minimum. These measures would have to include the way to preserve the culture and the knowledge over long periods of time, ideally without easily detectable technological assistance. Biological immortality is one such way. I am also in favor of many others too.
This is in addition to other OOC and IC reasons dealing with paradigm shifts and cycle breaking. Basically? Immortality tech breaks the cycle patterns. Or at least shifts them strongly. Which is good.
That actually does happen; look at the Middle East, where, thanks to their oil wealth, there are many countries where every citizen has guaranteed wages. Finding something meaningful for people to occupy their time with is going to be rather difficult, one reason I still maintain that kids should be left in school until age 25 rather than given a minimum education and sent out to find work at 13 as @Yog suggests.
Many kids I know of want to get out of school and get working at 13-14, seeing no point in further education. Really, the point of schools is likely to shift heavily towards socialisation, and likely psychological profiling. I can see internships, in the sense "works designed for kids to see what those jobs are about to feature prominently. Professional orientation, that's the term.
Well of course teenagers don't want to be in school; they'd rather be riding motorcycles, drinking, and having sex with anything that won't run away fast enough. The thing is, all forms of representative or democratic government presuppose a certain minimally informed electorate, and the higher that minimum is the better off the decisions of said electorate are. Wouldn't it be nice to live in a country where everyone knows exactly how their government works, and more than what the media can tell them about any given issue? Cramming a bare minimum of socialization training, plus the equivalent of a high school education, is only going to keep the population as ignorant and easy to misdirect as it is today, and only continue the endless cycle of lurching from preventable mistake to preventable mistake.
deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
The Asari evolved with their lifespan, of course they don't overpopulate, if they did they'd have killed themselves from overpopulation pressure on their homeworld. The one instance of sudden population growth change that happened was the krogan, and there the Turians bombed the shit out of them, and then the Salarians dropped the genophage on them. Doesn't matter that we're a post-industrial society, dropping immortality tech will absolutely cause a population boom, I mean, obviously? Growth rate is birth rate minus death rate, remove the death rate and growth rate increases. Obviously. You know that. The other races aren't just going to sit idly by gasping at humanity and saying 'gosh aren't they neat'.
They're actors, they have power and can and will use it. Is Immortality tech an important thing, sure, absolutely. But again you seem to have the idea that the correct thing to do, the only correct thing to do is hit the button as hard and as fast as you possibly can with no regard for consequences as if everyone else is going to sit by and let it happen. Technology is not a magic button you can press and to solve every single problem without causing any new ones. Ease back off the accelerator you're going to send us crashing into a wall.
A society is never homogenous, being post-work in someplaces doesn't mean being post-work everywhere. Going by what I know large portions of Earth are an utter shithole.
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Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Unfortunately for the mythical "informed electorate", most people simply Don't Care. They pick someone who they don't hate/strongly disagree with and just do what that person says. Representative democracy, Especially with a party system, is built entirely around useing this fact to keep a few people in power, with popularity contests giving the public the illusion of having some meaningful control, and the routine swapping of who gets the top job minimises the likelyhood of someone ambitious resorting to assassination.
Problem is, modern schools wither just teach facts by rote, or teach students "how to think (in accordance with prevailing ideological dogma)". What Needs to be taught is how to Ubderstand. History not as a series of dates, but how one thing leads to another, and the same act in different circumstances has different consequences. And also that some things are just terrible ideas (see Nazis, the modern understanding of slavery, "communism" (well, totalitarian bureaucracy with a centralised command economy or whatever it was the USSR was running in practice)), and so on. Here, history is an optional subject in 4th and 5th year of highschool, with only cherry picked bits supporting the current narrative even mentioned incidentally before then. (and even Then it's fairly limited.)
Meanwhile we have "english" classes which, unless you're in remedial classes (which get taught useful things Everyone needs to know!), not only doesn't teach anything about the Language, but it's only nod to Literature is reading a couple of Shakespeare's plays a year. The res's all analyzing posters and tv advertisements and movies. It's completely useless! (Before highschool, this subject covers creative writing, prose and poetry, the basics of the basics of grammar, and before hat reading, writing, and spelling are seperate things.). Oddly, despite being asked to Write them from time to time, in no subject was i ever taught how to write an essay until 4th year highschool history. That's nuts.
Other subjects have similar problems.
The simple fact is that it suits those in power to keep it that way.
Problem is, modern schools wither just teach facts by rote, or teach students "how to think (in accordance with prevailing ideological dogma)". What Needs to be taught is how to Ubderstand. History not as a series of dates, but how one thing leads to another, and the same act in different circumstances has different consequences. And also that some things are just terrible ideas (see Nazis, the modern understanding of slavery, "communism" (well, totalitarian bureaucracy with a centralised command economy or whatever it was the USSR was running in practice)), and so on. Here, history is an optional subject in 4th and 5th year of highschool, with only cherry picked bits supporting the current narrative even mentioned incidentally before then. (and even Then it's fairly limited.)
Meanwhile we have "english" classes which, unless you're in remedial classes (which get taught useful things Everyone needs to know!), not only doesn't teach anything about the Language, but it's only nod to Literature is reading a couple of Shakespeare's plays a year. The res's all analyzing posters and tv advertisements and movies. It's completely useless! (Before highschool, this subject covers creative writing, prose and poetry, the basics of the basics of grammar, and before hat reading, writing, and spelling are seperate things.). Oddly, despite being asked to Write them from time to time, in no subject was i ever taught how to write an essay until 4th year highschool history. That's nuts.
Other subjects have similar problems.
The simple fact is that it suits those in power to keep it that way.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
While there will be a population increase, I want to make sure you realize this doesn't make people unkillable. It's eternal youth.
And there's plenty of turmoil in the galaxy.
Also plenty of room. Like, goddamn. Overpopulation isn't a thing to worry about, it's population distribution. IIRC, the Citadel races have only explored something like 1% of the relay network (not the galaxy, just the relay network).
Also also...
They might go "oh, cool, now we're immortal pinnacles of our species", because that's going to be the result of Advanced Xenobiology, Peak Human, and Eternal Youth.
Y'know, like we're planning on researching.
- Location
- Leeds
Thats because they where too afraid of opening a new relay and finding the Rachni MK2 waiting on the other side, not because there was no reason for them to do so. Recall that the first contact war occurred because the Turians found a human ship attempting to activate an inactive relay.
While there will still be some unexplored planets within the unlocked network that can be accessed with non relay FTL, I think its more like 50% unexplored rather than 99%.
1) Birth rate kinda depends on a lot of factors, including projected lifespan, economic situation and others. Introduction of biological immortality would absolutely cause it to drop.
2) Krogans also evolved with their lifespan. They had several nuclear wars that knocked them back into stone age before being discovered by salarians. They did overpopulate.
3) The subject of asari lifespan is arguable at best, given prothean meddling.
4) You are still yet to show one historical example of technological advancement causing societal collapse. Or an example of succesful technological slowdown that led to positive results.
5) Don't shift the goal posts. The argument was "introducing widespread eternal youth will lead to a krogan-like uncontrollable population explosion". Not "introducing widespread eternal youth will lead to a hastened population growth".
6) Krogans are highly atypical in that they are r-typebreeders as opposed to k-type which basically all other known humanoids are.
7) Immortality isn't going to be limited to humans past maybe some initial delay to give alliance a boost or a council seat.
Council opens new relays. They just don't open relays without knowing what's on the other side. That's a big difference.
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Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Well, repulsor drive Would increase the distance ships could go from relays, unless I'm misremembering?
That Should open up more worlds, too.
Or at least, it would if the SA weren't being butts about it
Edit: whether immortality Actually causes a population boom or not, causing a freakout over the idea that it Might and various officials doing Really Dumb Things in response is Absolutely a possibility we need to take into account.
That Should open up more worlds, too.
Or at least, it would if the SA weren't being butts about it
Edit: whether immortality Actually causes a population boom or not, causing a freakout over the idea that it Might and various officials doing Really Dumb Things in response is Absolutely a possibility we need to take into account.
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This is very important to remember. Using current day accident statistics, which will admittedly probably be lower in the future, even with eternal youth a third of people won't live to see 1,000 years.