Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

And that's why we'll never be allowed to have one. No one, and I mean no one wants a corporation militarily powerful enough to field it's own goddamn battlegroup. And we can *build* dreadnought scale ships and fill them with factories and whatnot without making them Dreadnoughts. I'm pretty sure ME has mega freighters that mass similar amounts.

Having a Dreadnought is equivalent to the Citadel admitting we're a megacorporation capable of invading small nations on our own. It's such a mindbogglingly bad precedent that they'll fight tooth and nail to prevent it.


"I'm perfectly happy doing something that agitates everyone and is so obviously a biased agenda everyone will unite in shouting down that proposal". Throw money down the drain instead. You'll get more out of it. Council Licensed dangerous research? Gone. Goodwill in C-space? Gone. Image as a militant humanitarian? severely tarnished. Reputation for always acting in the Alliance's best interest? Disputed. This is such a retardedly controversial thing I can't consider a genuine proposal for it seriously.

And Cerebus, the people in canon who owned the biggest shipyards of the SA and have numerous supporters in the upper echelons of the SA's military? Yeah no, they're going to be able to get Dreadnoughts if we pass this proposal.

One dreadnought, and being able to invade a country is not the same as actually doing it since that would probably get eveyone on our asses if we tried. We also can just give our ships the firepower of a dreadnought as pointed out. Also there is no damn reason you have to be so damn insulting when critizing someone by using the word retarded.

@Hoyr

1) how would the SA feel about PI having even just one dreadnought?

2) Could we build space station with the power of the dreadnout but without the mobilty? You know so we can have a dreadnought equivelent that we can't just move around like one would a ship so people would be less freaked out about the firepowr
 
I really don't know how to take the 'Funny' comments to me shooting the PI Dreadnought thing down considering the GM is liking said comments. Either I've spent far too much time getting trolled, or people really have no idea what owning a Dreadnought actually represents (and why the SA, let alone the Citadel would dig in their heels to prevent it).
 
hire a Krogan Battlemaster to be our joint bodyguard/biotics tutor.

You do have one working as a scientist. Admittedly he is relatively young.

@Hoyr I presume the Council would be less than entirely charitable about limited run nanite warheads that consume a ship's hull on contact? I'm thinking of deconstructer nanites that run off an Arc Reactor (of course!) on the warhead, and the warhead is programmed at launch to explosively detonate after a variable time.

Do they self replicate? Also arc-reactors don't come that small (yet?) and moving that much power wirelessly would probably melt the nanites.

How long are we expecting these negotiations to take? Considering this is such a massive and expensive shift in galaxy military policy that is NOT after a galaxy-level conflict, and drawing from Earth's UN history, I'm expecting these negotiation to last years.

Definitely no way it gets done in under a year, after that who knows?

What did the Batarian Hegemony claim as its Casus Belli when they sent the official declaration of war?

Colonial/Territory Dispute, Boarder Issues, Threat to National Future

There was a bunch of other stuff in there but that those were the main themes and reasons stated. Obviously the last was more directed internally and the other two more externally focused.

Also, an interesting thought I had if Dreadnought-class weaponry get allotted by economics. Who has one of the biggest Economies?

Asari>Turian>Salarian

Turian is second because of the Volus.

1) how would the SA feel about PI having even just one dreadnought?

SA: *Nervously* Look we like you and all and you make cool stuff, but no? What the fuck do you even need it for? It's a supership, if you need one it's for a situation that we should have gotten involved in ages ago and why not just give it to us?

2) Could we build space station with the power of the dreadnout but without the mobilty? You know so we can have a dreadnought equivelent that we can't just move around like one would a ship so people would be less freaked out about the firepowr

What ever planet it was over would still be pretty freaked out.

Are there any Asari matriarchs we could hire to be a tutor for Jack?

You could find one. They aren't that rare.
 
@Hoyr Would the Alliance object if ParSec started actively recruiting for ParSec from aliens to fill up its numbers so it can cover more colonies?

If nothing else this would help with securing the missile factories and supply lines.

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SA: *Nervously* Look we like you and all and you make cool stuff, but no? What the fuck do you even need it for? It's a supership, if you need one it's for a situation that we should have gotten involved in ages ago and why not just give it to us?

This is actually a pretty good argument. The SA government is supposed to jump in in cases where dreadnought level firepower starts getting needed. And keeping guns that heavy out of the hands of corporate types is usually needed to keep said corporate types to start thinking they are above the law.

They already do that, but let's not give them the military power to back up that opinion.
 
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I really don't know how to take the 'Funny' comments to me shooting the PI Dreadnought thing down considering the GM is liking said comments. Either I've spent far too much time getting trolled, or people really have no idea what owning a Dreadnought actually represents (and why the SA, let alone the Citadel would dig in their heels to prevent it).

I think it's mostly in response to the first bit of that post:
For some reason, it's this more than anything else that makes me convinced we're properly emulating the Washington Naval Treaties, it's not even on a piece of paper yet and we're already planning on simply swapping out the weapon mounts whenever we feel like finally breaking the Treaty's limitations. The IJN would be so proud.
I was quite tempted to give you a funny for that but decided the rest of the post was serious enough for a like instead.
 
A more extreme idea is to make each government's fleets be limited by a portion of economic power and ignore dreadnought limits entirely. it's not super popular, but it is an idea.
The problem as I see it with the treaty of Farixen at all is that it imposes strict limits on the size of the self defence forces of nominal allies. If one were to limit fleet size in general, that would lead to even more kicking of the quarians, and even more resentment of the self-declared most important species of the universe. "Just mothball a chunk of your fleet," is easy enough to say when you're not in a war with the slaving, marauding savages at your borders.

Don't confuse my annoyance at the treaty with annoyance at you, however. It simply always struck me as stupid that the turians massacred exploration and science craft, waged war against humanity, and humanity simply leapt at the chance to sign a treaty limiting their number of dreadnaughts to a maximum of ten percent of the fleets of the council trifecta. All that, and people still bitched about Gen. Williams' surrender at Shanxi, while the Council lulled humanity into the stagnant society at the core of Citadel space. "You don't need military, you've got turians for that..." seemed to be the general sentiment, but that was of course not actually the case.

Relations between the Batarian Hegemony and the Systems Alliance have always been cool, and with humanity not being used to getting their colonies razed and inhabitants enslaved, it was only really a question of time before war was declared. Batarians are of course widely known for always following Council laws and treaties, so any engagements would be completely fair, no? Imposing sanctions on humanity becomes doubly important, to allow the poor batarians to express their culture. Snerk. Humanity bowing to the Council, but not getting anything more than platitudes in support now sort of annoys me.

Usually, signing a treaty where you agree to disarm, limit your weapon production or similar means one of two things: You lost a war, or the other side is also limiting itself in some manner. The treaty of Farixen is basically a way of ensuring that no upstarts will ever become military or economic superpowers in their own right. If anyone wants protection, they can ask the turians for help, but will then be made client races. Dreadnaught are first and foremost meant for two things: killing opposing dreads and projecting military force. This is not something the Council wants other powers capable of.

In Mass Effect (the first), Udina complains that an enemy of all the Council races attacked Eden Prime, and the response was more or less "Tough shit, but that's what you get for being a buffer nation. Also, we trust our nominally loyal loose cannons much more than your navy officers.". Agreeing to restrictions imposed on them by the Council, allowing foreign agents the ability to take unilateral action against nebulous 'threats to the Council' in their space. The Council is basically space-EU, only worse, somehow...

Humanity was always expansionist, and a well developed military is part of that, especially in the Terminus. I do not believe humanity would accept anything but a relaxation of the restrictions of the treaty. If the Council asked the SA to disarm in the middle of a war for sentient rights, the SA would probably just tell them where to stick the amended treaty. I don't want to seem like a Humanity First member, but it seems like at every turn humanity has had to give up liberties, with nothing but 30 square meters of embassy to show for it. An expanded market can be good, of course, but that also means competing against the races with an actual say in trade law, which is less than optimal. The war against the batarians might be the final push that makes humanity go "Those guys are assholes, let's do our own thing."
 
How about having it orbit a corporate world colonized by Paragon Industries at the edges of Citadel space? Would SA and the Council become alarmed at PI showing nationhood tendencies?

Yes. Very.

Not least of which because as I already noted earlier in this thread, Paragon Industries doesn't need a corporate world. We kinda de facto can already do everything a corporate world would allow us to do on Mindoir except the shit that's extremely illegal, and if Paragon got involved with that the SA and the Council are both going to spy the shit out of the place if not accidentally the damn thing entirely.
 
A couple of things that I'd like out of a new treaty:

1) Unrestricted hull sizes
2) Transferable Mixed Distribution Licenses
i) No distinction between council and non-council races
ii) Apportioned on economic power, as determined by taxes paid to the citadel
iii) Every polity with a recognized embassy is guaranteed at least one license
iv) Transferable between polities with recognized embassies (and client races).
v) Licenses can be granted directly to protectorate races if they have the economic power required to qualify. Protectorate races economic power is not added to their overlords power when determining licenses. They do not get the guaranteed license though. (Take that Turians)
vi) Additional licenses can be purchased directly from the citadel if over 90% of the distributed licenses are currently in use. Members can sell their licenses directly to the citadel at a fraction of their worth. Profits will be equally distributed among the member races.
 
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SA: *Nervously* Look we like you and all and you make cool stuff, but no? What the fuck do you even need it for? It's a supership, if you need one it's for a situation that we should have gotten involved in ages ago and why not just give it to us?

Revy: "Well there is a hyper advanced race of omnicidal space cyborgs comprised of whole races harvested by them over millions of years killing untold billions or even trillions who are after me specifically. So yeah, unless you are guys are always going have a fleet to protect me I would be alot safer if I had at least one supership of my own."

What ever planet it was over would still be pretty freaked out.

How would Mindoir feel about us building one over it considering that it's actually been invaded twice in that last few decades?
 
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cyborgs comprised of whole races harvested by them over millions of years killing untold billions or even trillions who are after me specifically. So yeah, unless you are guys are always going have a fleet to protect me I would be alot safer if I had at least one supership of my own."
No one even knows that the reapers are coming!
Revy does not even know that reapers even exist!
 
If the Council asked the SA to disarm in the middle of a war for sentient rights, the SA would probably just tell them where to stick the amended treaty.
An expanded market can be good, of course, but that also means competing against the races with an actual say in trade law, which is less than optimal.

Access to the Citadel Market is vital to the Alliance's economy. IIRC it was mentioned that if the Alliance pulled out it's economy would pretty much collapse. So as much as it sucks they Council basically has the Alliance over a barrel; accept whatever conditions they demand or watch your economy implode and probably get conquered by the Batarians.


No one even knows that the reapers are coming!
Revy does not even know that reapers even exist!
I'd advise re-reading the updates. Liara's dig revealed the existence of the Reapers. It's just we have no idea where they went after they exterminated the Protheans and no evidence suggesting they are coming back.
 
@Hoyr Would the Alliance object if ParSec started actively recruiting for ParSec from aliens to fill up its numbers so it can cover more colonies?

You've already been doing that. Only human only positions these days are the security teams and the research teams (Research heroes being the exception).

Should we start employing aliens on a more general level?
[X] Yes
--[X] As a part of galactic community, the more we are integrated with others, the harder it is to get rid of us. One doesn't cut off one's hand, much less one's head, without some serious consequences. Start running this line, that by hiring more aliens we get more integrated with the wide galaxy and thus become more secure, through your PR people and spread it both for the inner and outer consumption
--[x] Absolutely bring in non-humans to the marketing, legal, and HR departments. We are already selling products in Citadel space, and will increase that exposure as manufacturing capabilities increase, so we need non-human expertise in those areas already. Expand the applicant pool for ParSec to include Citadel races as well, but have HR be extra careful with background checks here.
--[x] For now, do not hire non-humans in R&D or on-site security. We don't need the political headaches this will cause with anti-alien factions just yet.


Problem is it's hard to fit non-humans in a Legionary.

How about having it orbit a corporate world colonized by Paragon Industries at the edges of Citadel space? Would SA and the Council become alarmed at PI showing nationhood tendencies?

It's concerning, but the grounds for objection are much smaller. Ideally you'd do what EAE does and remain part of the SA but have corporate worlds that go though the SA colony process.

Technically EAE doesn't have any seats in the SA's Parliament. Effectively they do however. That said all SA laws are followed there.

Basically PI could sort of become a SA member state in around about way like EAE. Does make the whole have your own fleet thing iffy member states aren't supposed to have there own fleet after all.

If one were to limit fleet size in general, that would lead to even more kicking of the quarians,

Quarians are not members of the Citadel and thus not effected by this.

"Just mothball a chunk of your fleet," is easy enough to say when you're not in a war with the slaving, marauding savages at your borders.

The current SA fleet is far below any suggested maximum for the SA.

How would Mindoir feel about us building one over it considering that it's actually been invaded twice in that last few decades?

Depends do you keep it or do you give/sell it to the SA? PI basically funds a city shield for Landing for example. Most of the issue comes down to who is in control and despite how well like you are people aren't quite up for you setting up your own little kingdom.
 
No one even knows that the reapers are coming!
Revy does not even know that reapers even exist!

It was more of a joke response(why are taking it so seriously?) Also we are going to find out about it anyway and the fleet is most likely going to leave once the war is over and I would really like it if we had a ton of defenses if they decide to put way more effort into taking Revy.
 
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This may be a good way to get Wrex in, we look for an independent Battle-master mercenary willing to play babbysitter/trainer to what is essential a young biotic krogan in human form and tie themselves to the company for a few years for testing weapons and whatnot, who also knows how to pick his fights.

You, I like you.

[] Plan New Guy
ParSec Intelligence
[] Investigate
-[] People that might be able to handle raising Jack.

Jack's Legal Guardian:
- [] Look into finding blunt, skilled, and even keeled Humans, Asari, or even Krogan that would be a good influence... or at least teach her that punching things isn't always the answer.

Colonial Construction Inc.:
Work on:
[] Making money/reducing PI construction costs. (+20 million credits/quarter yearly)
Expand the company?
[] Yes (will take time, current estimates are 20% return on investment)
-[] More factories, I don't know how many because I don't crunch numbers that well

Treaty Negotiations:
[] Whatever the thread decides. Seriously, the argument flew over my head twenty posts ago.

Some Other Project:
[] Write-in
- [] Send resupply to all ParSec forces that need it
- [] Look into building mobile space factories (What? I liked Homeworld.)
- [] Look into building Legionary variants for various aliens with the possibility of adding them to ParSec.
 
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The problem as I see it with the treaty of Farixen at all is that it imposes strict limits on the size of the self defence forces of nominal allies. If."
Its human nature. As long as Britain knows that it can take on the German fleet and win, they are happy to trade with them. If Germany starts expanding their fleet, the British will start to wonder if they are the target. So the British will start expanding their fleet. The Germans see that the British have expanded their fleet, and they wonder if they are trying to keep the Germans contained. And so on and so forth. Eventually this will lead to outright war or economic collapse. The scenario above is what got the steadfastly neutral British Empire to form an alliance with France (and Russia?) before WW1. One of the reasons that Germany started building its fleet in the first place was to prove itself a worthy ally of the British.

People see military buildup and it scares them. Treaties like this are put in place to prevent war from breaking out between its members. Was the treaty of Farixen unfair? Yes. But something like it was necessary to keep tensions cool between the Citadel and the EA.
 
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Depends do you keep it or do you give/sell it to the SA? PI basically funds a city shield for Landing for example. Most of the issue comes down to who is in control and despite how well like you are people aren't quite up for you setting up your own little kingdom.

Would it be possible to come up with a deal stating that while the SA controls the station it has to stay over Mindoir and they can't just take it?
 
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- [] Look into finding blunt, skilled, and even keeled Humans, Asari, or even Krogan that would be a good influence... or at least teach her that punching things isn't always the answer.

Minor correction: replace punching with violently bisecting and/or smashing around.

- [] Check on friends and family, generally see how everyone is doing.

That's more a personal action (for much later). Unless your saying that Revy should leverage PI's power to check on everyone?
 
Depends do you keep it or do you give/sell it to the SA? PI basically funds a city shield for Landing for example. Most of the issue comes down to who is in control and despite how well like you are people aren't quite up for you setting up your own little kingdom.
Would it still count as a dreadnought even if it can't move under it's own power? It probably should, otherwise you could subvert the treaty by making immobile space stations with dreadnought class weaponry and and then using other ships to tow them around to the target.
 
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