Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

I like the sound of relocating to a fleet, is it legal to build Dreadnaught sized ships with only 'defensive' capabilities?

If it has a powerful enough gun it's a Dreadnought and it part of such restrictions.

According to the battle rolls in the system GM currently uses Legionary Suit compared to galactic standard gear is just +6, while orbital support is +8. Legionary suits are very cool lore-wise, but not so much mechanics-wise. I feel the system should be upgraded due to new tech, but that's how it is so far. Or did we switch to more narrative-driven battles?

Hmm... oh documentation failure. That's all legacy, I'm kind using a complicated mess of spreadsheeting to do combat things now. It's not publicly available, because it a bit messy and I do all sorts of hacks to compensate for changes in each battle. I've changed the documentation to reflect this. If you have questions do ask.

I will say that a Legionary is basically a tank, so you kill it the same way. Since it's got AMS the best way is lasers or big guns. GARDIAN laser emplacements murder Legionaries. (They also do the same to drones, tanks, infantry, and air craft).

Combat you are involved in works completely differently being a mix up of narrative, Shadowrun and/or my pretty spreadsheet.

No if any progress is to be made a decades long occupation of Batarian territory, much like how even today American troops are still in Germany, combined with well funded and supported societal reform programs are needed. We basically have to grind slavery out of the Batarian culture to the point that, like Germany and the Nazis, the very idea of it is considered offensive.

Arguably we (the US that is) could pull those troops out these days Germany is sanish. But yeah it took a generation or more.

The really problem is how do you convince the government and the populous to support this? Modern reporting makes war and their following occupations extremely unpalatable. Long occupations suck and does the SA really want to take on the responsibility?

One thing I think people are mistaken about: time scales. One turn is a quarter of a year. How long do you thing a war where we "grind them into dust" would last?

Well... somewhere between 1 year and a few centuries, based on ME history.

At this point in time they haven't left the Citadel either, which means they haven't wrecked their own economy.

While it was never noted by previous GMs IIRC the Batarians left in 2171 or about three years ago canon wise. This quest begun ~5 years ago. I feel that it's probable that the Batarians have still left, though maybe not at the exact same time.

Which is why protecting our soldiers is more important. Miniaturized energy weapons are exactly that - small energy weapons. It's a gate tech, yes, but by themselves they are infantry tech, not ship one.

I was going to increase the power of ship borne lasers with the tech to represent an increase in energy density. It's probably not going to be much ~x5 I think.

My take on FTL sensors in Mass Effect. Technobabble sensors aren't really a thing here, but we have the technology to cheat our way into it. And one of the scariest things in ME is the fog of war. You never know if some asshole sneaks up on you from the interstellar void, like right now.

That's done already to a limited degree with comm buoys. That's why the get cut ASAP. But yeah its a thing you could do.

This is the first draft, if you think that could work or if you want to add something, feel free to discuss.

Ablative Laser Armor would be better than Reactive, in my mind.

1) Legionaries are good, but they aren't broken. And we could make a truly broken armor by advancing to Mk 2. It's a cheap buy for something that can absolutely minimize the casualties in ground combat.

It's a point worth repeating. Anti-tank action will kill a Legionary. Large MA cannons, Laser weapons and anti-tank mines are all valid threats. Anti-tank missiles aren't much of a threat due to AMS, but they can cause harm past the AMS. The Legionay shrinks the fighting power of a pre-PI IFV*/Light Tank into a person sized unit.

*Not including troopers.

There are probably other ways that work that I'm not thinking of.

Unless I missed something, we are not going to be fighting a war. SA will be fighting a war. We are just a firm.

You have a PMC, one that has some of the best guns around. Your almost definitely going to fight in the war, even if the SA has to (politely) demand it.
 
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Well, what killed Weimar republic was the Great Depression - if not for worldwide economical crisis provoked by lack of governmental economical influence, Nazi might not have gotten as much support. But there is hope - after all we have Abolitionists, so there might be a banned opposition movement which will welcome us with pies and flavors. Of course they want power, but as long as this is on our terms. Using Germany analogy - if Operation Valkyrie would have succeed WW2 might have taken a few less millions lives.

Are the Abolitionists Batarians, though? I got the feeling they were independent. Pretty much a cross-species organization.
 
The Batarians have definitely left, our Politics guy (who's name escapes me at the moment) made reference to the rumor that the Turian Primarchs had a party when the Batarians left.

EDIT: Here is is, from 2173-Q4

"Turians prefer law and order. Batarians tend to offend that sensibility. So yes the Turians don't like them at all. I hear that the Primarchs had a quiet 'party' when the Batarians formally left the Citadel."
 
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The Batarians have definitely left, our Politics guy (who's name escapes me at the moment) made reference to the rumor that the Turian Primarchs had a party when the Batarians left.

So he did, we WoGM says its so... so be it.

So if we manage to fit a pre-Revy Dreadnought-equivalent gun on a frigate, it would count as a dreadnought?

Yep! Part of the point is not to have masses of super-weapons running around. Also to avoid an expensive arms race. One risk horrible extinction events, the other ruins economies.
 
Why tracks? Do you have this weird fetish for running over retreating enemy? Repulsors let us fly and can compensate more recoil than tracks.
I believe the track solution is to brace against the ground for much heavier guns with much heavier recoil. Presumably there would be repulsors as well, but those would be for jumping over obstacles than their primary form of movement.

Also, what do you mean Repulsors are better at recoil. And floating vehicle will absolutely suck at recoil management unless you decide to stick a bunch of repulsors on the back of the turret in which case, good luck to any poor sods behind you cause they'll get flash fried.

Why in the name of Cuthulhu do we need a human loader in the age of droids and VIs? Or gunner. Driver I kind of get - it can be lonely for commander during long nights, you need somebody to play poker with. It's just not the same with VIs.
A tank crew needs three people, a driver gunner, and commander. Why? Well, why can't you replace the gunner and driver in modern tanks today? It would be relatively simple to hook up all of the tank's systems to an Xbox controller.

It's because the modern battlefield is a horribly complicated place and although VIs can handle some tasks, combat in a complicated environment with many different objectives is not something that they are good at.

Why do you need a gunner and driver? To free up the commander from having to do it himself. The commander's job is to interpret orders and determine the best way to execute them. If he needs to focus on driving, shooting, and keeping his eye on the rest of the battlefield as well, he could be overwhelmed and his decision-making with be hampered to an unacceptable degree.

The Driver is supposed to drive the tank, maneuver it places, judge such way is the best way to go, and go there. Can't a VI do it? Sure, but better hope the path finding on the VI is good or you're in for a very very bumpy ride.

Why would you need a gunner then? Well, to shoot things. A human being will always notice things that a VI wouldn't, and would be able to interpret that information better.

Could one guy do it all? Yeah sure. Could he do it well? Sure. Could a normal person do it all well amidst the chaos and confusion of the modern battlefield? You wish.
 
Why in the name of Cuthulhu do we need a human loader in the age of droids and VIs? Or gunner. Driver I kind of get - it can be lonely for commander during long nights, you need somebody to play poker with. It's just not the same with VIs.
Autoloaders are not total problem free, also commander works best if s/he...you know commands. Any other work decrease efficiency.

Why tracks? Do you have this weird fetish for running over retreating enemy? Repulsors let us fly and can compensate more recoil than tracks.

Wheels or hover on tank? :rofl:. Seriously, tracks trump wheels any day with heavy fighting vehicles. For APC I can understand that. Battle vehicle which stands in combat zone full of shrapnel, trading shots? Please. Also why not repulsors? Well, I can accept repulsor lander if someone works it out but to fly tank around? We got heavy fighters.

Single 125 mm cannon seems underwhelming. We need bigger caliber, 155 we can mount on tiger. Or like 6 of them to get higher firerate.

155 mm low recoil gun on 20 ton APC variant...yes...155 high recoil gun capable to destroy heavy targets...well, that's called naval gun.
 
So he did, we WoGM says its so... so be it.



Yep! Part of the point is not to have masses of super-weapons running around. Also to avoid an expensive arms race. One risk horrible extinction events, the other ruins economies.
Once we get grav-sensors, TIR, and TA can we make dread level weapons and keep them under permanent stealth? Having a dreadnaught level fleet no one else knows about seems like it could be extremely useful, both for the reapers and for any other issues that pop up.
 
Once we get grav-sensors, TIR, and TA can we make dread level weapons and keep them under permanent stealth? Having a dreadnaught level fleet no one else knows about seems like it could be extremely useful, both for the reapers and for any other issues that pop up.
Well, unless you manage to hide the logistics train and construction facilities, most enemies would probably know you Built the things, if not where they are at any given time.
 
Well, unless you manage to hide the logistics train and construction facilities, most enemies would probably know you Built the things, if not where they are at any given time.


Not necessarily, if we go with Hypermodularity and somehow figure a way to use similar components that can look like regular logistics flow.

So we can hide all that... The problem is that they will know we are building something, just not what.

Credits that go into something but do not come back eventually start to leave people with a big '?' However the credit trail could be solved by a high investment terraforming project that will not be done in the next half a century, if we are basically willing to pay double or triple for dreads and dread equivalents, and then adjust said terraforming projects funds and material flow to what we require to maintain the facade once we are done with amassing a massive fleet.


Do we have fully programmable production lines?

Hypermodularity may get us out of that wrinkle to require us only assembly of modules. We may perhaps need speciality VI clusters and something approaching a AI in performance if not a straight up AI.


And once we have built say 200 or more dreadnoughts, where are we going to get the crews? Because unless we design them to be run in conjunction with AIs we are not going to be able to crew them in any reasonable time frame secrecy or no secrecy, and even the SA or other forces will need at least a year to get the necessary manpower to crew them.

So that makes AI a prerequisite for starting a ghost fleet as design would hinge upon AIs, because we cannot have ghost planet filled with hundreds of millions of people at our command.
 
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Once we get grav-sensors, TIR, and TA can we make dread level weapons and keep them under permanent stealth? Having a dreadnaught level fleet no one else knows about seems like it could be extremely useful, both for the reapers and for any other issues that pop up.
No, we just make hundreds of 1,000m "carriers", and line our factory sites with hundreds of 900+m "stationary gun emplacements", all perfectly legal. What, you say that the guns can conveniently be loaded into the carriers? That's just crazy!

Note that the SA might have actually been doing this, although with our missile tech backing then up they might be changing their strategy.
 
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Let's try my own
PI-MBT-M1 design proposal
Rhino


General Info:
  • Weight: 70 tonnes
  • Speed (Tracks): 80 km/hour
  • Speed (Road wheels): 60 km/hour
  • Armor: Super Alloy-reactive blend
Complement:
  • Commander
  • Gunner
  • Driver
Power Systems:
  • 4x 10GW Paragon Industries Second Generation Arc Reactor
Motive Systems:
  • 2 Track All Terrain Drive System w/ Road wheels
  • 4x swivel mounted Repulsors
Weaponry:
  • 155 mm/60 caliber MAC (main gun)
  • 35mm Coaxial autocannon
  • 20mm machine gun (commander's weapon)
  • 1 optional weapon system hardpoint at side of turret (See Equipment)
  • 2 WP smoke grenade launchers
Defensive systems:
  • Paragon Industries ACA-01 Lorica
  • Paragon Industries KB-01 Castra
Additional systems:
  • Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
  • Neural interface control system
  • Communications Relay
  • Battle Network
  • Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
  • Paragon Industries Auto-loader (Dart, HE, Can, HEAT)
Equipment:
  • Hydra Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
  • 40mm Automatic Mortar (with 8,100 grenades)
  • Heavy Flamer

So here's my proposal. I have configured the weapon selection so that it is very good at one thing. Killing heavily armored targets and nothing else. Tanks, Legionaries, Bunkers, and IFVs.
 
No, we just make hundreds of 1,000m "carriers", and line our factory sites with hundreds of 900+m "stationary gun emplacements", all perfectly legal. What, you say that the guns can conveniently be loaded into the carriers? That's just crazy!

That could actually work with hyper-modularity. Create planetary defense systems that can be picked up and put on ships.

edit: It also lets us arm a whole bunch of merchantmen when the Reaper go public.
 
Heavy Gun Lifting Ship.

"That ship looks suspiciously like a dreadnought, what with that big gun and all."

"Whuuuuut? That? Nah, it couldn't. It's just a ship that we use to move those big guns around."

"Why do you have so many?"

". . . We have a lot of guns."

"Why do you have so many guns?"

". . . We have a lot of planets."
 
As i understand it, what our troops most lack right now is long range indirect fire capabilities for eliminating guardian towers and the like (which, unlike everything else, they're not only not basically immune to but get utterly shreaded by). Currently it sounds like "orbital bombardment" is the only answer there, so let's provide an alternative in the form of a self propelled artillery unit.

MACs and lasers aren't good in this role, they're direct fire weapons, so can't shoot from behind full, heavy cover (such as hills) without at least partly exposing themselves. Missiles are a lot better, but anything big enough to deal with solid targets is also probably big enough to be taken out by anti-air defences, assuming the target doesn't have dedicated anti-missile defences.

Which leaves oldstyle dumb HE rounds, with armour piercing or bunker busting modifications as appropriate. A certain mod in ME already proved that Rifle scale HE rounds are devestatingly effective even against targets only hit by the explosive burst. How much more so the equivilant of being hit by 25 pounders (ww2 britis artillery piece i'm most familiar with for this sort of thing) with equivilant explosives in their shells?
The only slight issue is rate of fire (this is what batteries are for) and propallent (technically you could use a MAC for this, just gotta tone the muzzle velocity Way down.)

There are probably other isses, of course, but a self propelled artillery unity seems like it'd do the job.
 
Honestly, Repulsors are so far beyond any form of ground based transportation system the only purpose they serve is in case of some sort of EMP or landing struts. Recoil can be compensated for by a computer planned burn, with the sort of computers we have we'd probably see almost no recoil thanks to firecontrol VIs tied to thruster counter burns. The bullshit thing about Repulsors is that they just need energy and no reaction mass, and we have shit loads of energy thanks to Gen 2 Arc Reactors so we have no real excuse as to why we wouldn't want to just use our Repulsors as recoil stabilizers. Seriously, Repulsors are just going to be flat out better than the best conceivable caterpillar treads, unless you have a hateboner against computers (Hint; We don't).

As i understand it, what our troops most lack right now is long range indirect fire capabilities for eliminating guardian towers and the like (which, unlike everything else, they're not only not basically immune to but get utterly shreaded by). Currently it sounds like "orbital bombardment" is the only answer there, so let's provide an alternative in the form of a self propelled artillery unit.

MACs and lasers aren't good in this role, they're direct fire weapons, so can't shoot from behind full, heavy cover (such as hills) without at least partly exposing themselves. Missiles are a lot better, but anything big enough to deal with solid targets is also probably big enough to be taken out by anti-air defences, assuming the target doesn't have dedicated anti-missile defences.

Which leaves oldstyle dumb HE rounds, with armour piercing or bunker busting modifications as appropriate. A certain mod in ME already proved that Rifle scale HE rounds are devestatingly effective even against targets only hit by the explosive burst. How much more so the equivilant of being hit by 25 pounders (ww2 britis artillery piece i'm most familiar with for this sort of thing) with equivilant explosives in their shells?
The only slight issue is rate of fire (this is what batteries are for) and propallent (technically you could use a MAC for this, just gotta tone the muzzle velocity Way down.)

There are probably other isses, of course, but a self propelled artillery unity seems like it'd do the job.
Am I the only one who's looking at our singularity weapon research and thinking about integrating it into SPG? That thing shouldn't give a damn about fortifications/hardpoints. Hell give the MAC variable muzzle velocity and it can transition from artillery to the mother of all Assault guns.
 
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As i understand it, what our troops most lack right now is long range indirect fire capabilities for eliminating guardian towers and the like (which, unlike everything else, they're not only not basically immune to but get utterly shreaded by). Currently it sounds like "orbital bombardment" is the only answer there, so let's provide an alternative in the form of a self propelled artillery unit.

MACs and lasers aren't good in this role, they're direct fire weapons, so can't shoot from behind full, heavy cover (such as hills) without at least partly exposing themselves. Missiles are a lot better, but anything big enough to deal with solid targets is also probably big enough to be taken out by anti-air defences, assuming the target doesn't have dedicated anti-missile defences.

Which leaves oldstyle dumb HE rounds, with armour piercing or bunker busting modifications as appropriate. A certain mod in ME already proved that Rifle scale HE rounds are devestatingly effective even against targets only hit by the explosive burst. How much more so the equivilant of being hit by 25 pounders (ww2 britis artillery piece i'm most familiar with for this sort of thing) with equivilant explosives in their shells?
The only slight issue is rate of fire (this is what batteries are for) and propallent (technically you could use a MAC for this, just gotta tone the muzzle velocity Way down.)

There are probably other isses, of course, but a self propelled artillery unity seems like it'd do the job.
Oh! I can help with that!

M8A1 Onager Self Propelled gun

Role - Self Propelled Gun

Weaponry
  • 1x Paragon Industries 203mm MAC
  • 1x 40mm AAA weapon. (deleted from Export version)
  • 2x Machine gun mounts compatible with almost all machineguns (with the exception of Batarian State Arms weaponry)
Defensive Systems
  • Paragon Industries ACA-01 Lorica
  • Paragon Industries KB-01 Castra
Power System
  • 5x Paragon Industries Arc Reactors (5GW)
Engine System
  • All Terrain High Speed Tracked Drive System (tracks can be blown to drive on road wheels)
Crew
  • 1 driver
  • 1 captain
  • 1 gunner
  • 1 communications officer
  • 2 engineers
Additional Systems
  • Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
  • Paragon Industries Satellite Uplink and Guidance System
  • Paragon Industries Radar system (deleted from Export version)
  • GPS and transmitter
  • Paragon Industries Networked Computers Uplink Adaptation system (deleted from Export version)
  • Paragon Industries Liquid Nitrogen Compressor and cooling system
Additional Equipment
  • Boiling Kettle for boiling water for tea, and coffee, and instant ramen, hell if I know
  • Air Conditioner with NCB filter
  • Small refrigerator (deleted from Export version)
Cost - 26,000,000

Description:
The Onager, well, it's not a pretty weapons system, in fact, it's downright ugly. Does it do what it needs to do? Yes. Does it look pretty? No. Are the Asari ever going to even consider it given how ugly it looks? No way in hell.

The Onager, unlike the catapults of old earth does not throw stones but rather, an 8 inch shell filled with a choice of either cluster sub-munitions, a chemical payload, high explosive, or simply concrete if you want to be . . . perfectly boring. With advanced guidance systems, long range, and highly flexible mission capabilities, it has two names: the 400 kilometer sniper rifle, and the Grid Square Remover. For the commander who just wants to sit back and kill things, the Onager is the perfect weapon.

It is capable of providing long range fire support with near pinpoint accuracy. It is capable of Shoot and Scoot. It does everything besides light cigarettes and reject phone calls.

For self-defense, the Onager has a powerful Paragon Industries Air Defense RADAR system and the ability to take control of or direct nearby anti-air units in addition to its own 4cm auto-cannon. This autocannon can be depressed low enough to engage ground targets as well. For close in anti-infantry work, the Onager has two robotic machinegun mounts capable of mounting almost any machine gun with the exception of Batarian State Arms products.

It's not elegent. It's not pretty. But the engine is loud. The gun is powerful. The Salsa is . . . chunky.

For those who think that a fair fight is a perfectly retarded idea. The Onager.
 
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Hey, quick question.

Do we have our personal Fleet in orbit right now?

I'm asking because if our five Light Laser Pynda's could theoretically provide a decent fight against every dreadnought in the SA Fleet, I would feel a Lot less worried about enemy assault on Mindoir.
 
Hey, quick question.

Do we have our personal Fleet in orbit right now?

I'm asking because if our five Light Laser Pynda's could theoretically provide a decent fight against every dreadnought in the SA Fleet, I would feel a Lot less worried about enemy assault on Mindoir.

From the update...

  • 2 Lite Laser Pynda Frigates


We have two of em if I'm reading this right. We got 2/5ths of our combat potential made before this happened IIRC.
 
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