Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

[Kaioo]

Yep! Part of the point is not to have masses of super-weapons running around. Also to avoid an expensive arms race. One risk horrible extinction events, the other ruins economies.

Click to shrink...

I thought that Dreadnought classification was specific that it needed to both be a ship over 800 metres and have a Dreadnought-caliber main cannon(i.e. 800 metres+ long, or capable of dealing the.. 28 KT or whatever it was output of a Dreadnought shot)?

Wouldn't the current ships we have be considered Dreadnoughts due to their damage output?

Unless the classification has changed? It has admittedly been a while and my memory might be fuzzy.

 

[LightMage]

I thought that Dreadnought classification was specific that it needed to both be a ship over 800 metres and have a Dreadnought-caliber main cannon(i.e. 800 metres+ long, or capable of dealing the.. 28 KT or whatever it was output of a Dreadnought shot)?

Wouldn't the current ships we have be considered Dreadnoughts due to their damage output?

Click to shrink...

IIRC the definition is just ships OVER 800 meters, b/c at the time the main capital weaponry used in space combat was Mass Accelerators which used up the length of the ship. I.E the longer the better, thus they capped the number you could make.

Edit: The GM said that they'd count as Dreadnoughts tho if we mounted Pre-Revy tier weaponry to our frigates apparently though.

Ya here.

If it has a powerful enough gun it's a Dreadnought and it part of such restrictions.

Click to shrink...

 

[Hoyr]

There are probably other isses, of course, but a self propelled artillery unity seems like it'd do the job.

Click to shrink...

What's the difference between intercepting a terminal velocity shell and a missile?

I thought that Dreadnought classification was specific that it needed to both be a ship over 800 metres and have a Dreadnought-caliber main cannon(i.e. 800 metres+ long, or capable of dealing the.. 28 KT or whatever it was output of a Dreadnought shot)?

Click to shrink...

The treaty has technical details and it has a goal. The goal is keeping down the number of super-weapons. The details were that anything with a spinal gun over ~800m was a "Dreadnought". (I'd bet the treat is more picky but that's the rule of thumb, it was probably based on weapon impact energy.)

Due to the changes and predicted changes in weapon technology (your fault), the Citadel is intending to change the details of the treaty to meet it's goals and re-ratify. It'll probably pass because the reason it was made in the first place haven't changed. (I haven't put up an official story news item on this, but it's only fair I inform you based on that fact. You will have the option to lobby if you wish.)

The revision will most likely include explicit inclusions of all weapon classes (Lasers, MACs, Missiles, Particle Cannon, anything really), and included restrictions on both output over time and per-strike values. I'd off the top of my head say 100TJ strikes, and 50TW output over time*. In addition, the multiple weapons maybe considered together based on some fiddly definition stuff.

Of course that's the executive brief, I don't want to write an actual law.

*Huh that means your rapid fire MACs start being dreadnought level around 250m... or bigger than frigates... not sure how I feel about that.

Wouldn't the current ships we have be considered Dreadnoughts due to their damage output?

Click to shrink...

Nope! The current designs IIRC aren't there yet. Like 2TW. Lasers actually are a bit less powerful as is compared to Kinetics.

 

[CyberFemme]

On the subject of indirect fire black-hole guns:

"Corporate forces on Garvug have won a major victory tonight: Sonax infantry units surrounded the Clan Hailot ancestral fortress and pounded it with rocket-propelled grenades, singularity projectors, and mass accelerator fire. In a bloody invasion that yielded twelve casualties, troops stormed the doors and took the fortress, destroying krogan resistance and replacing the clan flag with the Sonax Industries logo. There is no word yet if clan head Hailot Wrund was inside the building during the attack. Elsewhere in the city, troops had to pick their way through booby-trapped power stations, hospitals, and water purification facilities. "It's not over yet", said one young special forces officer, who declined to be named. "They haven't even begun to fight"."

Click to shrink...

They are apparently already a thing.

 

[Hoyr]

They are apparently already a thing.

Click to shrink...

That's about 11 years from now. It's also an infantry based singularity projector, aka the Blackstorm which is developed in ME canon 9-11 years from now.

 

[Chargone]

Oh! I can help with that!

Click to shrink...

An example, yes. No idea if it's a Good example or not though.

What's the difference between intercepting a terminal velocity shell and a missile?

Click to shrink...

Edit: i somehow missed the word "intercepting", or forgot it part way through, when writing this.../edit

Missiles are typically, though not always, bigger targets. More significantly, you have to Hit a shell, near misses will often do in a missile (and hitting a shell Still won't always prevent it doing some damage on impact anyway, though that's sort of true of missiles too). ECM does nothing to shells, it can do all sorts of fun things to missiles. Shells are much cheaper than missiles for the same boom. Different heat signitures for whatever difference that makes. Auto-load a multi-tube weapon and you can spam the shells just as well as you can smaller missiles. RL the Launch systems for the shell are cheaper, though MACs may negate that.

The downside is that shells can't be as fancy, you have to use raw force to break through any shields (that is, throw lots of them at it). But, as i said earlier, ME's HE rounds of appropriate size seem up to the task, and they're cheap enough you can afford to do so. The size of such shells also means ammo trucks (probably not actually trucks) probably need to be a thing again though. Depending on details.
Bonus: you can airburst them to wipe out lagre numbers of enemy infantry with one shell, rather than large numbers of missiles to kill one infantryman. (depending on said infantryman's armour, shields, and anti-missile capabilities, of course.)

Missiles are still far superior vs AFVs and airborn targets though. Those are too mobile for shelling to have any reasonable chance of getting through their shields and armour before they're out of the target area.

Bonus: shells care not for ECM. It's total effect on them can be utterly negated by a dude with a miror or torch.

I'm probably missing a thing or five here, but that's my understanding of it, at least.

 

[Fehu]

@Hoyr So, we could actually prepare Dreadnaughts and use em as unarmed carriers exclusively until we're allowed to arm them? Where we allowed to make space factories cause asteroid munching might be a good cover for asteroid throwing... capabilities.

Also if the Turians can be convinced to buy Dreadnaughts at a the cheap SA could circumvent the treaties. Huhu

 

[TheEyes]

Why in the name of Cuthulhu do we need a human loader in the age of droids and VIs? Or gunner. Driver I kind of get - it can be lonely for commander during long nights, you need somebody to play poker with. It's just not the same with VIs.

Click to shrink...

A tank crew needs three people, a driver gunner, and commander. Why? Well, why can't you replace the gunner and driver in modern tanks today? It would be relatively simple to hook up all of the tank's systems to an Xbox controller.

Click to shrink...

Autoloaders are not total problem free, also commander works best if s/he...you know commands. Any other work decrease efficiency.

Click to shrink...

Maybe instead of a strict "Loader" we generalize the position to "Engineer"? The engineer would be in charge of maintaining all the tank's systems, from guns to armor to engines to auto-repair to ECM/ECCM to AMS, etc. That gives a crew of four: Commander, Gunner, Driver, Engineer.

Let's try my own

Spoiler: MBT

PI-MBT-M1 design proposal
Rhino

General Info:

• Weight: 70 tonnes
• Speed (Tracks): 80 km/hour
• Speed (Road wheels): 60 km/hour
• Armor: Super Alloy-reactive blend

Complement:

• Commander
• Gunner
• Driver

Power Systems:

• 4x 10GW Paragon Industries Second Generation Arc Reactor

Motive Systems:

• 2 Track All Terrain Drive System w/ Road wheels
• 4x swivel mounted Repulsors

Weaponry:

• 155 mm/60 caliber MAC (main gun)
• 35mm Coaxial autocannon
• 20mm machine gun (commander's weapon)
• 1 optional weapon system hardpoint at side of turret (See Equipment)
• 2 WP smoke grenade launchers

Defensive systems:

• Paragon Industries ACA-01 Lorica
• Paragon Industries KB-01 Castra

Additional systems:

• Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
• Neural interface control system
• Communications Relay
• Battle Network
• Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
• Paragon Industries Auto-loader (Dart, HE, Can, HEAT)

Equipment:

• Hydra Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
• 40mm Automatic Mortar (with 8,100 grenades)
• Heavy Flamer

So here's my proposal. I have configured the weapon selection so that it is very good at one thing. Killing heavily armored targets and nothing else. Tanks, Legionaries, Bunkers, and IFVs.

Click to shrink...

Well, a decent start, but a few things:

1. Include an Engineer; our tanks will have enough tech on them that we'll need a full-time one to monitor all the internal systems, plus the drones because of course this thing will have drones.
2. Our Tigers have 75 GW of power; our tanks should have at least 4-8 times that, if only to run the beefier shields, plus the Repulsors so the thing can fly at a decent speed.
3. Should have at least eight Repulsors, for redundancy. Also add an eezo core, both for mass nullification while flying and for mass amplification to counter recoil when firing for effect.
4. Weaponry is seriously anemic; we have more crap on our IFVs for God's sake. Put a 155mm three-barrel 600 RPM high-velocity rotary MAC as the primary (this would be why we need a mass amplification system for recoil!) and a 25MW laser on as the secondary; include VLS systems for missiles and Accipiter, Aspidai, and Sagittarius drones (which incidentally would make a better commander "gun" since this isn't WWII and the commander isn't going to be hanging out the top of the turret).
5. Defensive systems: we're definitely on ACA-02 and KB-02 by now, since we have Superalloys and Warp Barriers. Also include six Hasta-Rs and another 5MW laser GARDIAN array for point defense/anti-air.
6. Hydras are probably not appropriate here, nor the flamer since if we want to light things on fire that's what the weaponized laser and/or incendiary rounds are for. Hydras make more sense on fighters and gunships, things that unlike an MBT are not meant to hold territory. We're better off saving the space for more ammo storage; 155mm MAC rounds take up a lot of room!

Do we have fully programmable production lines?

Click to shrink...

Not fully programmable, but more agile than anything the industry would normally consider wise, given that we don't ever need to retool, even for technologies we only discovered the previous quarter. Seriously, our production factories are more flexible than most research companies' rapid prototyping workshops; that's pretty crazy.

 

[Carrnage]

Not fully programmable, but more agile than anything the industry would normally consider wise, given that we don't ever need to retool, even for technologies we only discovered the previous quarter. Seriously, our production factories are more flexible than most research companies' rapid prototyping workshops; that's pretty crazy.

Click to shrink...

I Really want a production tech tree or research hero, unlocking strategy game logistics would be OP.

 

[Ramble]

Well, a decent start, but a few things:

1. Include an Engineer; our tanks will have enough tech on them that we'll need a full-time one to monitor all the internal systems, plus the drones because of course this thing will have drones.
2. Our Tigers have 75 GW of power; our tanks should have at least 4-8 times that, if only to run the beefier shields, plus the Repulsors so the thing can fly at a decent speed.
3. Should have at least eight Repulsors, for redundancy. Also add an eezo core, both for mass nullification while flying and for mass amplification to counter recoil when firing for effect.
4. Weaponry is seriously anemic; we have more crap on our IFVs for God's sake. Put a 155mm three-barrel 600 RPM high-velocity rotary MAC as the primary (this would be why we need a mass amplification system for recoil!) and a 25MW laser on as the secondary; include VLS systems for missiles and Accipiter, Aspidai, and Sagittarius drones (which incidentally would make a better commander "gun" since this isn't WWII and the commander isn't going to be hanging out the top of the turret).
5. Defensive systems: we're definitely on ACA-02 and KB-02 by now, since we have Superalloys and Warp Barriers. Also include six Hasta-Rs and another 5MW laser GARDIAN array for point defense/anti-air.
6. Hydras are probably not appropriate here, nor the flamer since if we want to light things on fire that's what the weaponized laser and/or incendiary rounds are for. Hydras make more sense on fighters and gunships, things that unlike an MBT are not meant to hold territory. We're better off saving the space for more ammo storage; 155mm MAC rounds take up a lot of room!

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: MBT

PI-MBT-M2 design proposal
Terrier

General Info:

• Weight: 160 tonnes
• Speed (Tracks): 80 km/hour
• Speed (Road wheels): 60 km/hour
• Armor: Super Alloy-reactive blend

Complement:

• Commander
• Gunner
• Driver
• Engineer

Power Systems:

• 4x 50GW Paragon Industries Second Generation Arc Reactor

Motive Systems:

• 2 Track All Terrain Drive System w/ Road wheels
• 8x swivel mounted Repulsors
• Paragon Industries' LD-ME-02 Mass Nullification System

Weaponry:

• 2x 350 mm/60 caliber MAC (main turret, O/U)
• 155mm Coaxial autocannon (Dart, HE, HEAT, nuke)
• 56mm machine gun (commander's gun, remote weapon system)
• 76mm (Engineer's gun, remote weapon system)
• 2 optional weapon system hardpoint at sides of turret (See Equipment)

Defensive systems:

• Paragon Industries ACA-02 Lorica
• Paragon Industries KB-02 Castra
• 4x Paragon Industries SM-01 Point Defense turrets

Additional systems:

• Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
• Neural interface control system
• Communications Relay
• Battle Network
• Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
• 2x Paragon Industries Auto-loader for 350mm (Dart, HE, Can, HEAT, nuke)

Equipment:

• Super-Hydra Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
• 120mm Automatic Mortar (with 8,100 grenades)
• "Bulletstorm" mount (49 linked machine guns)
• "World Burner" Flame thrower

 

[TheEyes]

Spoiler: MBT

PI-MBT-M2 design proposal
Terrier

General Info:

• Weight: 160 tonnes
• Speed (Tracks): 80 km/hour
• Speed (Road wheels): 60 km/hour
• Armor: Super Alloy-reactive blend

Complement:

• Commander
• Gunner
• Driver
• Engineer

Power Systems:

• 4x 50GW Paragon Industries Second Generation Arc Reactor

Motive Systems:

• 2 Track All Terrain Drive System w/ Road wheels
• 8x swivel mounted Repulsors
• Paragon Industries' LD-ME-02 Mass Nullification System

Weaponry:

• 2x 350 mm/60 caliber MAC (main turret, O/U)
• 155mm Coaxial autocannon (Dart, HE, HEAT, nuke)
• 56mm machine gun (commander's gun, remote weapon system)
• 76mm (Engineer's gun, remote weapon system)
• 2 optional weapon system hardpoint at sides of turret (See Equipment)

Defensive systems:

• Paragon Industries ACA-02 Lorica
• Paragon Industries KB-02 Castra
• 4x Paragon Industries SM-01 Point Defense turrets

Additional systems:

• Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
• Neural interface control system
• Communications Relay
• Battle Network
• Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
• 2x Paragon Industries Auto-loader for 350mm (Dart, HE, Can, HEAT, nuke)

Equipment:

• Super-Hydra Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
• 120mm Automatic Mortar (with 8,100 grenades)
• "Bulletstorm" mount (49 linked machine guns)
• "World Burner" Flame thrower

Click to shrink...

Much better, though I'm still iffy on the Hydras rather than something smaller, and a flame thrower when we have weaponized lasers.

@Hoyr, all this talk about GARDIAN turrets messing people up makes me wonder: does "The Invisible Man" also imply "The Invisible Missile" or do we need a follow-on tech for that?

 

[Ramble]

Much better, though I'm still iffy on the Hydras rather than something smaller.

Click to shrink...

The hydras are for Anti-infantry work where nuke rounds are prohibited and some limited Anti-aircraft work.

 

[TheEyes]

The hydras are for Anti-infantry work where nuke rounds are prohibited and some limited Anti-aircraft work.

Click to shrink...

Hydras are definitely not anti-infantry. A Hydra is a cluster-missile, built to overwhelm fighter barriers/armor, or frigate point defense systems as a screen for an anti-ship missile. Maybe you're thinking Sagitta or Pilium? You can easily fit 2,000 of the former and say 250 of the later on a tank as a spare VLS pod and have plenty of room left over for drones and gun ammo.

 

[Ramble]

Hydras are definitely not anti-infantry. A Hydra is a cluster-missile, built to overwhelm fighter barriers/armor, or frigate point defense systems as a screen for an anti-ship missile. Maybe you're thinking Sagitta or Pilium? You can easily fit 2,000 of the former and say 250 of the later on a tank as a spare VLS pod and have plenty of room left over for drones and gun ammo.

Click to shrink...

It works great in an anti-infantry role though. ParSec has been doing it, though they're mainly using them as AGMs, not BGMs.

 

[DarknessSmiles]

It works great in an anti-infantry role though. ParSec has been doing it, though they're mainly using them as AGMs, not BGMs.

Click to shrink...

But why would we use the very expensive and overkilling hydra when we can use the weapon we developed for this exact job (the sagitta)? Especially when we are putting this weapon system on there for the exact reason of not overkilling everything with our main gun.

 

[TheEyes]

It works great in an anti-infantry role though. ParSec has been doing it, though they're mainly using them as AGMs, not BGMs.

Click to shrink...

I'm kind of not sure how, though; each Hydra contains a thousand missiles, so it's kind of hard to not be wasteful unless you're trying to take out entire companies of troops at the same time. I'm pretty sure the only reason we're bothering is because we continually forgot to send Sagittarius drones to Anhur; if we had then there'd be no reason to bother.


Anyway @Yog here's my updated plan proposal. Oh, and I found another argument in favor of more lasers: as @UberJJK mentioned awhile back, "There is a reason after all why one of the first acts in war is to take out enemy fuel depots and helium-3 mining installations." Lasering Batarian fuel depot and He-3 mines, all of which are going to be easily accessible from space, will destroy their economy and starship logistics, while not affecting ours at all. No need to sabotage their ground forces; frankly we can probably just lay siege to their planets at leisure once we've trapped their ships.

2174-Q3 (for delivery Q4)
QEC - 22.5+1456.75: Agreed that we need to get this, for strategic reasons.
UV Lasers - 400: Should multiply our Pynda's laser range by ~5-30 in space (IR lasers are ~1500nm so they can hit a good atmospheric transmittance window; UV are probably 50-300nm), putting us outside of MAC-fire range, although it's basically only useful in space because Rayleigh scattering makes UV/Vis lasers too dangerous to use in atmosphere. This, by the way, brings Variable WL lasers back into potential usefulness: should we decide that we need to laser people from orbit with the same weapon we're using for ship-to-ship combat, then we need to be able to swap between planet-safe IR lasers and longer range UV/X-ray lasers for inter-ship combat.
Mind shields - 70+216.75
Omni-tool upgrades - 37
Light Cruisers - 10: Same reasoning as yours.

2174-Q4 (for delivery 2175-Q1)
The Invisible Fighter - 400: If we didn't already have the ability to make our missiles invisible, we do now. Should let us take down GARDIAN towers with relative ease. If @Hoyr says that TIM lets us do this without the upgrade, then we can get Miniaturized DEWs instead, for further range boosts on our Pyndas. (Edit): Confirmed: Invisible Fighter lets us make invisible missiles (probably drones too!).
Mark II suit - 500: It's a little early, but I guess we can get started by upgrading all of ParSec and our security forces, in anticipation of setting it out on the market in a couple of quarters after our first H&K contract is up.
Reactive Barriers - 177.5+22.5: May as well get these now.
Advanced xenobiology - 800
Mind shields - 70+43.25
Grav wave detectors - 63.75
Omni-tool upgrades - 37+89
Light cruisers - 10: Again, same reasoning as yours.

2175-Q1 (for delivery 2175-Q2)
Grav Wave Detectors - 736.25: To finish that off
TIR - 22.5+1435.5: Almost complete; can certainly finish this quarter with an omake boost.
[Some Biotech] - 70: Sort of depends on which set of aliens we want to ally with most. Right now I'm thinking Hanar.
Light cruisers - 10+69.75 = 109.75/600: Same reasoning as yours, but also I want to get Light Cruiser tech implemented, both for the Hanar and for the Alliance. Our Space Factory IIIs should start coming online within 2-3 quarters at this point, and we need to be building something larger than a frigate to take advantage of them.

 

[Hoyr]

@Hoyr So, we could actually prepare Dreadnaughts and use em as unarmed carriers exclusively until we're allowed to arm them?

Click to shrink...

It wouldn't cause issue with the treaty. Though running around with large numbers of ships that express purpose is to deliver large numbers of nuclear missiles* (or missiles as powerful) isn't... you know... going to make any one comfortable.

*We're talking in the thousands here.

Also if the Turians can be convinced to buy Dreadnaughts at a the cheap SA could circumvent the treaties. Huhu

Click to shrink...

The Turians maintain the number of dreadnoughts the do as an explicit choice. The Turians are directly charged by the treaty with keeping the number of such super-weapons and a potential space arms race under control. If you gave them new ones they might let the number go up by a little bit, but then they'd start retiring their old ones.

@Hoyr, all this talk about GARDIAN turrets messing people up makes me wonder: does "The Invisible Man" also imply "The Invisible Missile" or do we need a follow-on tech for that?

Click to shrink...

Uhhh... the fighter one should be enough. Don't think you could fit it on micro-missiles. Pilums would have to get a bit larger...

I'm pretty sure the only reason we're bothering is because we continually forgot to send Sagittarius drones to Anhur; if we had then there'd be no reason to bother.

Click to shrink...

Also a lack of ground attack bombs in the sub-nuclear range. And the fighter targets don't forget those enemy ground forces had fighter support.

 

[Portec]

Spoiler: MBT

PI-MBT-M2 design proposal
Terrier

General Info:

• Weight: 160 tonnes
• Speed (Tracks): 80 km/hour
• Speed (Road wheels): 60 km/hour
• Armor: Super Alloy-reactive blend

Complement:

• Commander
• Gunner
• Driver
• Engineer

Power Systems:

• 4x 50GW Paragon Industries Second Generation Arc Reactor

Motive Systems:

• 2 Track All Terrain Drive System w/ Road wheels
• 8x swivel mounted Repulsors
• Paragon Industries' LD-ME-02 Mass Nullification System

Weaponry:

• 2x 350 mm/60 caliber MAC (main turret, O/U)
• 155mm Coaxial autocannon (Dart, HE, HEAT, nuke)
• 56mm machine gun (commander's gun, remote weapon system)
• 76mm (Engineer's gun, remote weapon system)
• 2 optional weapon system hardpoint at sides of turret (See Equipment)

Defensive systems:

• Paragon Industries ACA-02 Lorica
• Paragon Industries KB-02 Castra
• 4x Paragon Industries SM-01 Point Defense turrets

Additional systems:

• Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
• Neural interface control system
• Communications Relay
• Battle Network
• Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
• 2x Paragon Industries Auto-loader for 350mm (Dart, HE, Can, HEAT, nuke)

Equipment:

• Super-Hydra Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
• 120mm Automatic Mortar (with 8,100 grenades)
• "Bulletstorm" mount (49 linked machine guns)
• "World Burner" Flame thrower

Click to shrink...

This is not critism!
About the ammo need for for large caliber MACs: The game could handwave those but actuall tanks rarely carry 100 rounds. Even if the MAC version does no longer need propellant the size would still be roughly the same thanks to stabilizers.
With that reasoning how about giving the tank a 'heavy' ammunition using primary weapon (explosives and stuff) with two coaxial 'heavy' (maybe modable) MAC machineguns?

As can be seen in this picture

Spoiler: Mako

the original Mako was equipped with a long barreled MAC of small calliber as well as a similar long Autocannon that may or may not be a MAC (the visuals point against that).
As we now MACs get stronger with the length of the barrel which means that vehicle sized machigun MACs can put the hurt on vehicels. Especially if they are supercharged with Arc reactors.

Let me have a try;

Spoiler: MBT

PI-MBT-M2 design proposal
Terrier

Unit Price: 30,000,000

Role: Infantry Support, Heavy Combat and Autonomous Operation

General Info:

• Weight: 80 tonnes
• Speed (Tracks): 80 km/hour
• Speed (Road wheels): 60 km/hour
• Armor: Super Alloy-reactive blend

Complement:

• Commander
  
• Gunner
• Driver
• Engineer

Power Systems:

• 4x 50GW Paragon Industries Second Generation Arc Reactor

Motive Systems:

• 2 Track All Terrain Drive System w/ Road wheels
• 8x Paragon Industries RT-01-330E thrusters in free swivel mounts
• Paragon Industries' LD-ME-02 Mass Nullification System

Weaponry:

• Primary Weapon - Paragon Industries UHP-01 Universal Hardpoint
• 2x 4m length Coaxial machine gun MAC (modable in combat)
  
• 4x 1m length quadro linked machine gun sponsons (remote weapon system, automated or directly controled)
• 4 optional weapon system hardpoint on chassy (See Equipment)

Defensive systems:

• Paragon Industries ACA-02 Lorica
• Paragon Industries KB-02 Castra
• 4x Paragon Industries SM-01 Point Defense turrets

Additional systems:

• Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
• Neural interface control system for all personal
  
• Communications Relay
• Battle Network
• Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.

Equipment:

• Primary Weapon Systems:
  • Paragon Industries 350mm caliber 4m length MAC with Paragon Industries Auto-loader for 350mm (Dart, HE, Can, HEAT, nuke)
  • Paragon Industries Repulsor Cannon
  • Paragon Industries Laser
• Secondary Weapon Options (include but not limited to)
  • Super-Hydra Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
  • 120mm Automatic Mortar (with 8,100 grenades)
  • "Bulletstorm" mount (49 linked machine guns)
  • "World Burner" Flame thrower

 

[GulibleLeprecon]

About the ammo need for for large caliber MACs: The game could handwave those but actuall tanks rarely carry 100 rounds. Even if the MAC version does no longer need propellant the size would still be roughly the same thanks to stabilizers.

Click to shrink...

Hmmm, so you are saying that increasing the caliber is a dead end because of ammunition weight, and we must concentrate on increasing energy of the shot? What is the limiting factor there? Our guns are ezzo-assisted railguns, right? There are two factors which affect the slug velocity in case of constant geometry: energy stored in capacitors which feed the railgun and effectiveness of mass-nullification system. Where do we hit the bottleneck? Also you are kind of underselling on power - twice as much would definitely increase shields, thrusters output and general survivability, and they don't cost much.

 

[TheEyes]

Also you are kind of underselling on power - twice as much would definitely increase shields, thrusters output and general survivability, and they don't cost much.

Click to shrink...

200 gigawatts of power is plenty; that's 40 Legionaries worth. Another way to think about it is that it's roughly ten times the generating capacity of the Three Gorges Dam, the largest power plant on Earth.

 

[Sylvire]

Tanks over 100 tons? Since when did heavy tank came back, that concept died at 50's. Also, it's not the amount of barrels you can stuck in the turret, it's the damage you can do with one. There is reason why modern tanks look similar, it's the work of years of research.

 

[Ramble]

350mm Coaxial machine gun MAC (modable in combat)

Click to shrink...

You do realize that 350 milimeters is 14 inches right? A 350mm machine gun isn't going to work bro.

Also, do you know what the scale of what a gun like that would look like? You could comfortably fit your head in the barrel and the barrel would be 21 meters long. It's why those are the main cannons. I was expecting 20 second reload times out of that thing even with our bullshit technology. It's why I stuck two on. And it's not two turrets, it's one turret with the two guns arranged in an over/under configuration, doubling fire rate in such a primitive fashion because while they're powerful they're going to be so damn slow.

Also, I had it so that each person had a manageable amount of weapons that they could handle while being able to do their job efficiently with relative comfort. You guys keep stacking weapons and systems on things without bothering to take into account how the hell the crew are supposed to do their jobs when they have to babysit 11 weapons at once.

 

[Yog]

Anyway @Yog here's my updated plan proposal. Oh, and I found another argument in favor of more lasers: as @UberJJK mentioned awhile back, "There is a reason after all why one of the first acts in war is to take out enemy fuel depots and helium-3 mining installations." Lasering Batarian fuel depot and He-3 mines, all of which are going to be easily accessible from space, will destroy their economy and starship logistics, while not affecting ours at all. No need to sabotage their ground forces; frankly we can probably just lay siege to their planets at leisure once we've trapped their ships.

2174-Q3 (for delivery Q4)
QEC - 22.5+1456.75: Agreed that we need to get this, for strategic reasons.
UV Lasers - 400: Should multiply our Pynda's laser range by ~5-30 in space (IR lasers are ~1500nm so they can hit a good atmospheric transmittance window; UV are probably 50-300nm), putting us outside of MAC-fire range, although it's basically only useful in space because Rayleigh scattering makes UV/Vis lasers too dangerous to use in atmosphere. This, by the way, brings Variable WL lasers back into potential usefulness: should we decide that we need to laser people from orbit with the same weapon we're using for ship-to-ship combat, then we need to be able to swap between planet-safe IR lasers and longer range UV/X-ray lasers for inter-ship combat.
Mind shields - 70+216.75
Omni-tool upgrades - 37
Light Cruisers - 10: Same reasoning as yours.

2174-Q4 (for delivery 2175-Q1)
The Invisible Fighter - 400: If we didn't already have the ability to make our missiles invisible, we do now. Should let us take down GARDIAN towers with relative ease. If @Hoyr says that TIM lets us do this without the upgrade, then we can get Miniaturized DEWs instead, for further range boosts on our Pyndas. (Edit): Confirmed: Invisible Fighter lets us make invisible missiles (probably drones too!).
Mark II suit - 500: It's a little early, but I guess we can get started by upgrading all of ParSec and our security forces, in anticipation of setting it out on the market in a couple of quarters after our first H&K contract is up.
Reactive Barriers - 177.5+22.5: May as well get these now.
Advanced xenobiology - 800
Mind shields - 70+43.25
Grav wave detectors - 63.75
Omni-tool upgrades - 37+89
Light cruisers - 10: Again, same reasoning as yours.

2175-Q1 (for delivery 2175-Q2)
Grav Wave Detectors - 736.25: To finish that off
TIR - 22.5+1435.5: Almost complete; can certainly finish this quarter with an omake boost.
[Some Biotech] - 70: Sort of depends on which set of aliens we want to ally with most. Right now I'm thinking Hanar.
Light cruisers - 10+69.75 = 109.75/600: Same reasoning as yours, but also I want to get Light Cruiser tech implemented, both for the Hanar and for the Alliance. Our Space Factory IIIs should start coming online within 2-3 quarters at this point, and we need to be building something larger than a frigate to take advantage of them.

Click to shrink...

I am very iffy on the subject of invisible fire. Anti-missile defences use radar and IR sensors, not visual, after all. I'd rather either get reactive barries (with the remaining 200 going towards... probably grav wave sensors), or maybe start working on advanced prosthetics. The reasoning is very selfish, really: as @Hoyr stated, we have a PMC that will be asked to fight in the war. Said PMC is mostly infantry-based. I want to keep them safe. As in, I want to go through the war with zero casualties, while building up a kind of reputation that makes entire batallions flee rather than face one single ParSec, and where the only solution is really to "nuke it from orbit". Thus, Mk 2, probably barriers, and advanced prosthetics too - because we need to care for our wounded. @Hoyr , question: would advanced prosthetics provide any boost to the armor's life-support systems?

Invisible fighter... Only real value is a stepping stone towards invisible ship, I think. Well, not really, but I'm not sure we should prioritize it.

And all of this is, of course, predicated on there being a full scale war between SA and batarians.

 

[Sylvire]

*snip*

Click to shrink...

Uh, those 350mm guns you have weight 80 tons a piece.

Also when did people caught Hitler's Tank Syndrome. What the subject was, our General wanted MBT's so we could buy tanks from market in order to upgrade them so that we didn't need to research Medium Armor. I think there is weight limit for the stuff.

 

[tyaty1]

You do realize that 350 milimeters is 14 inches right? A 350mm machine gun isn't going to work bro.

Also, do you know what the scale of what a gun like that would look like? You could comfortably fit your head in the barrel and the barrel would be 21 meters long. It's why those are the main cannons. I was expecting 20 second reload times out of that thing even with our bullshit technology. It's why I stuck two on. And it's not two turrets, it's one turret with the two guns arranged in an over/under configuration, doubling fire rate in such a primitive fashion because while they're powerful they're going to be so damn slow.

Also, I had it so that each person had a manageable amount of weapons that they could handle while being able to do their job efficiently with relative comfort. You guys keep stacking weapons and systems on things without bothering to take into account how the hell the crew are supposed to do their jobs when they have to babysit 11 weapons at once.

Click to shrink...

I agree.
I would even prefer a single rapid fire 350mm gun and a 155m Gatling cannon as basis armaments over the twin 350.

The 155mm is more than enough in the most cases, and flash-forging high caliber rounds costs a lot material.


A single 350mm MAC should be enough to tear downs any kind of armor, and the 155m one is more useful against barriers.