Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

[Ramble]

I kinda want to take the Eve approach and build a carrier that is more a support ship than anything else. You use can do lots of things in Eve with carriers. You can launch fighters and bombers and drones. You can fit it out with ECM and jam the enemy or fire up sensor boosters and cancel the enemy's ECM. You can provide support, repairs, and other such helpful things with repair modules and triage modules like with R&K's pantheon doctrine. You can even just empty everything and use it to haul bullets and supplies for the actual battlewagons.

Any way you decide to use it, it's a very very valuable asset.

 

[TheUnicorn]

The problem with turning a carrier (or any other kind of ship) into a sort of 'Jack of all trades' is the second half of that saying - "Master of none".

A carrier can be fitted with ECM/ECCM...but it's not going to be anywhere near as good as a dedicated electronic warfare platform at it and fitting those functions will make it less effective as a carrier. The same if you want to make it into a collier, a factory ship, a hospital ship, or anything else other than a carrier.

Granted with a large enough ship, or tech advantage you can get away with it...but that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[Ryune]

The problem with turning a carrier (or any other kind of ship) into a sort of 'Jack of all trades' is the second half of that saying - "Master of none".

A carrier can be fitted with ECM/ECCM...but it's not going to be anywhere near as good as a dedicated electronic warfare platform at it and fitting those functions will make it less effective as a carrier. The same if you want to make it into a collier, a factory ship, a hospital ship, or anything else other than a carrier.

Granted with a large enough ship, or tech advantage you can get away with it...but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Click to shrink...

This is less of an issue than you might expect. Yes, a multi-role would be less effective than a dedicated platform. The big question though is how much less effective. Diminishing returns are a thing. Is it worth it to stuff 5 roles worth of stuff into a vessel if they all function at 1/5th efficiency? Not hardly. But if you can stuff that many in and get as much as half the efficiency of a dedicated platform then it is worth it. Especially if those roles play off of each other beneficially.

It's also worth considering things like smart-phones. They cover an assload of functions and do them all quite well. "Jack of all trades, master of none" is a bit of a misnomer when it comes to technology. Mostly because there is a point where more ability in a single area simply isn't useful. After all, if you build a carrier sized vessel and then have to build another two vessels just to cover the holes in it's own capabilities you aren't using what you are given wisely.

 

[TheUnicorn]

This is less of an issue than you might expect. Yes, a multi-role would be less effective than a dedicated platform. The big question though is how much less effective.

Click to shrink...

True. But while the answer varies according to what you're trying to combine generally the answer is "A Lot".

Diminishing returns are a thing. Is it worth it to stuff 5 roles worth of stuff into a vessel if they all function at 1/5th efficiency? Not hardly.

Click to shrink...

Actually, if you could get it that good it might be worth while, if only for the added strategic flexibility. The problem is you'd be lucky to get something 10% as effective in practice once you accounted for everything.

It's also worth considering things like smart-phones. They cover an assload of functions and do them all quite well.

Click to shrink...

Wrong. smartphones are an excellent example of failing to perform any function anywhere near as well as a dedicated platform would while costing a lot more. However the technology is sufficiently advanced today that you don't need the improved performance so people are willing to pay for the convenience of having multiple functions in a single platform - at which point economies of scale start dropping the price.

This does not apply to military vessels.

 

[Tabron89]

It's also worth considering things like smart-phones. They cover an assload of functions and do them all quite well. "Jack of all trades, master of none" is a bit of a misnomer when it comes to technology. Mostly because there is a point where more ability in a single area simply isn't useful. After all, if you build a carrier sized vessel and then have to build another two vessels just to cover the holes in it's own capabilities you aren't using what you are given wisely.

Click to shrink...

But at the same time though, we are talking about starships, were every gram counts and have limited space to work in.

It's usually accepted that if you want to get the best out of a starship, it's best to be dedicated to one role or two at the most - a ship carrying a combination of lasers and missiles/kinetic round weaponry should lose out to one that dedicated to either one, simply for not being able to bring the right amount of weaponry to bear.

In other words:

1) A dedicated missile ship will have more missiles than one that is half assed, thus can fire more at it's target. This also means that it has a higher chance of surpassing an enemy ships PDL.

2) A dedicated laser ship will have more powerful lasers than one that is half assed, along with more coollant meaning higher endurance, which means it can cope with more missiles and keep on fighting,

3) A dedicated carrier will have more fighters than one that just carries six or so.

 

[Chargone]

The quote is actually "Jack of all trades and master of one", and is speaking of the ideal of the well educated man. Of course, as the sum of human knowledge increases and trades become more specialised and numerous, this becomes more difficult, but still.

Of course, common error (which gives us such nonsense as "I could care less (about a thing i'm dismissing as unimportant)", though at least This error produces useful advice) does spit out "jack of all trades, master of none" and then find a use for it (someone (or something) who spreads themselves too thin trying to do everything, so never manages to do anything particularly well), but still.

The two add up to me to give "specialise in something, or you'll fail at everything, but don't Over specialise or you won't be able to cope with anything in any way nonstandard."

Most of the money to be made in the world is in finding new and useful overlaps between existing specialities and mastering That, anyway.

Smartphones always leave me going "why not just get the much cheaper "dumb" phone, which is generally supperior in that role, and a tablet for the other stuff if you actually need it?" But tablets make me think the same about laptops and smartphones, and there's no sane way to make something which slots between smartphone and tablet.

Those thoughts got away from me a bit.

 

[Tabron89]

Smartphones always leave me going "why not just get the much cheaper "dumb" phone, which is generally supperior in that role, and a tablet for the other stuff if you actually need it?" But tablets make me think the same about laptops and smartphones, and there's no sane way to make something which slots between smartphone and tablet.

Click to shrink...

I actually don't own a Smartphone or a tablet...exactly for those same reasons.

Smartphone = screen keeps getting fingerprints all over it, sometimes ring people when it's in your pocket and the screen (again) has the tendancy to crack if dropped on the floor and takes the hit via one of its corners.

Tablet = fingerprints (again) and family member annoyance over the Tablets ability to connect to the net via wi-fi put me off.

It's bad enough that the PSVita is touchscreen, I very rarely use the wi fi on it except to watch old TV series on it, I don't want something else I end up spending time to clean every few minutes or so.

 

[Ramble]

Actually, if you were to make a phone comparison, what I was thinking about would be one of these things:

 

[TheUnicorn]

The quote is actually "Jack of all trades and master of one"

Click to shrink...

The saying is "Jack of all trades, master of none". someone at some point might have used the phrasing you refereed to, but AFAIK all modern usage is either the phrase I used or just the first part, and the phrase I used dates back to the late 18th century, if not earlier
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/jack-of-all-trades.html
http://www.knowyourphrase.com/phrase-meanings/Jack-of-All-Trades-Master-of-None.html
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none

I am curious about the origins and usage of the phrase you used, if you can point me to some information on when and where the phrase was used.

 

[Chargone]

18th century or earlier, famous writer and historic figure of some sort (not necessarily in that order), probably american. If i remembered it better i would give it more precisely.

I Think it's "The well educated man is a jack of all trades, and a master of one", but it might be worded a bit differently. I Vaguely recall the jack of all trades/master of none thing being a misquote of, or possibly a reference to, the phrase when the document the originally phrase was in was fairly recent and well known, but that could be a fabrication, in part or in full, of my imagination.

Associated with the concept of the "Renaissance man" i think

 

[TheUnicorn]

18th century or earlier, famous writer and historic figure of some sort (not necessarily in that order), probably american. If i remembered it better i would give it more precisely.

I Think it's "The well educated man is a jack of all trades, and a master of one", but it might be worded a bit differently. I Vaguely recall the jack of all trades/master of none thing being a misquote of, or possibly a reference to, the phrase when the document the originally phrase was in was fairly recent and well known, but that could be a fabrication, in part or in full, of my imagination.

Associated with the concept of the "Renaissance man" i think

Click to shrink...

The misquote part is clearly wrong, there were various different phrases showing the "jack of all trades" in a negative fashion which were used during the 18th century. As the earlier usage was positive it's possible someone used the phrase you referred to, but the modern one is not a misquote.

 

[TheEyes]

Smartphones always leave me going "why not just get the much cheaper "dumb" phone, which is generally supperior in that role, and a tablet for the other stuff if you actually need it?" But tablets make me think the same about laptops and smartphones, and there's no sane way to make something which slots between smartphone and tablet.

Click to shrink...

That's because you are making the mistake of thinking that "transmission/reception of voice-only communication" is a fully fleshed-out role, when in fact it is an extreme over-specialization of the role, "mobile communication device." As you mention yourself: over-specialization makes you vulnerable to attacks from non-standard directions, and a dumbphone is completely incapable of adapting to the changing world of communication, which frequently does not involve voice-only communications at all.

Modern smartphones can do voice-only communication exactly as well as dumbphones, and in fact now that many networks are upgrading to HD voice they can do it better and more clearly than most dumbphones. In addition, a smartphone can do SMS communications much more quickly and easily, thanks to larger screens and integrated QWERTY/Swype-capable keyboards; they can communicate via the Internet which opens social media, video conferencing, and email; and they have full web browsing capabilities which allow for example access to GPS-enabled maps and navigation.

Back before I bought my first smartphone, I had the same reservations as you do. Ever since I bought one and learned how to use it properly, I have been able to look back and notice dozens of incidents where my possession of a smartphone has saved me time or given me opportunities that I would have otherwise missed, and I realize that my previous skepticism of smartphones was just me slavishly following hipster fashion, rejecting them in a hypocritical attempt to make myself feel superior to an "ignorant" consumer culture.

 

[Hoyr]

Special Event Part 4
2173-Q4

[X] You put overrides into the Neural Interface for just this reason! Use them! Get out.
-[X] And shut down the security server completely.

The overrides do their job well. You experience a moment of disorientation as the VR space replaces reality. A quick check shows that the OS and firmware layers of your implant are fine. The hacker only effected the application layer as far as you can tell. Even then the actual weak point may have come from the VR program itself. The program does conform to modern VR standards and there may be an exploit there. Something to check later.

For now the security server is the real risk. A quick check of your data feeds catches you up on what you missed. The hacker has crashed the communications network and the E-war systems... and that's it so far as you can tell. Based on how effective the hacker was against you would have expected far more. Looking at the data, you'd almost say they weren't trying as hard for some reason. Or it could be something else.

Thanks to your own ability and the improvements to neural interface technology your analysis takes only a few moments. With the comm net down you'll be forced outside to call security. You open your lab's door and leave the lab opening a comm channel to security as you do, "Security Server is compromised, shut it down."

"Figured as much, I was considering shutting it down anyway." the head of security replies, "I'll start the shut down now. I've also sent a runner to get past the jamming, they should be able to contact the alliance and local forces. Don't know if you missed it but just after the comms cut out a bunch of construction robot attacked the west wall. Turns out industrial fabricators and lasers make halfway okay weapons Odd part is that some of them a projecting large shield bubbles. We have a large advantage as far as I can tell, but I'd bet good money on it being a distraction. For what's the question."

As the head of security updates you, you walk out a little more and get a better view of the west wall. Splattered burning "plasma" jelly clearly marks the attack's location. Your security forces are keeping down and behind cover for the most part. Occasionally an explosive detonates and you can see your drone zipping around. The attackers keep your forces busy but achieve little more. Though the wall will need repairing later.

You could help out at the wall, but the attack seems well in hand. Finding out what the distraction was for seems more important. And you've notice a small problem. The Legionary is heavy armor and the extra mass makes your biotics slightly less effective then you'd expect. Which explains why most biotics avoid heavy armor. Though you can probably fix that issue the MK II. Oh well not like you need biotics to kick ass.

Murphy, however, is not done with you yet today. As you consider your course of action a biotic blue detonation occurs in the middle of the defending line. The explosion tosses Legionary armored troops around and the wall receives even more structural damage.

Thanks to the advanced sensors of the Legionary and your neural interface that you get a clear view. You see a humanoid shape standing in the middle of the detonation. A massive aura of dark energy surrounds the figure. Though whether they are human, Asari or Batarian you cannot tell; between their grey-black armor and the aura of dark energy it's hard to see much. A far more immediate issue is the fact that the biotic super soldiers attention is directed towards where the local research server is. Great.

Well what now? (If you're getting into a fight feel free to add in some tactics notes)
[ ]You're in a perfect position to intercept the biotic super soldier. You stand the best chance against him with you upgraded Legionary. Though your combat skills themselves aren't the best.
[ ] It'd would be better to fight with support, engage alongside the security team guarding the research server; even if it risks the server and labs.
[ ] The security team at the server can handle it. With the additional damage the west wall may be at risk, help out there.
[ ]Something else?


Event notes:
Non-combatants have been evacuated.
Research Server is offline.
Security Server is offline.
Investigating security teams have found nothing, they have been re-tasked to guard the servers.
Construction robots are attacking the west wall, security is winning.
Security teams are concentrating at critical points, campus walls are less defended.
Drones are engaged in fighting.
Turrets are in autonomous mode and have reduced effectiveness.
You are being jammed, long-range communications ineffective.
A runner has been sent to escape jamming.
A biotic super soldier has attacked the west wall.


-----
GM's note: Yay more updates. Not much to say here sort of a bridge piece between the hacking and the outside combat. The biotics and heavy armor not getting along thing is from the observation that dark energy effect is dependent on the mass of the target, and combining that with the no heavy armor for casters thing that bioware did. It effects buffs and debuffs more then attacks though. "Plasma" Jelly is basically the unholy love child of napalm and thermite, in other words super hot burning goo. No actual plasma involved unless its a super hot verity and creates plasma as it burns.

 

[Lavaflow]

So... hi Kai Leng?
Is that who it is? cause I wouldn't be surprised, the Hacker could be one of Cerberus' only semi-failed AI's.

Also, I couldn't remember Leng's name so I googled "Mass Effect Cerberus Ninja Guy". First result.

 

[Van Ropen]

Right now Cerberus has every reason to prevent attacks, not attack us themselves.

 

[aceraptor]

So yeah, we need to engage, does the Mk. II have lasers?

 

[Lavaflow]

Unless TIM thinks he can use our tech better himself. He's probably egotistical enough to think that.

Either way, you're probably more right than I am, I've only played each game once, and neither thoroughly nor recently. I'm just throwing out ideas so others can figure out if they're probable.

 

[Ramble]

[X]You're in a perfect position to intercept the biotic super soldier. You stand the best chance against him with you upgraded Legionary. Though your combat skills themselves aren't the best.

 

[Van Ropen]

So yeah, we need to engage, does the Mk. II have lasers?

Click to shrink...

Don't think so, we haven't researched minitaurized energy weapons.

Unless TIM thinks he can use our tech better himself. He's probably egotistical enough to think that.

Either way, you're probably more right than I am, I've only played each game once, and neither thoroughly nor recently. I'm just throwing out ideas so others can figure out if they're probable.

Click to shrink...

No no, you're totally right - he certainly thinks he can use our tech better than us. It's just that we are the golden goose right now producing new goodies, and putting us in any sort of risk would be entirely counter-productive.

 

[Hoyr]

So yeah, we need to engage, does the Mk. II have lasers?

Click to shrink...

Well you're in a Mk 1.75b technically (or was it a c?... meh). It has repulsors and fancy VI tech. Bit short on lasers. Though that's only due to the lack of infantry scale weaponized lasers in stock. (Miniaturized Energy Weapons tech hint hint)

The Mk II can mount lasers, but so can the Legionary. You just don't have any.

 

[aceraptor]

Well you're in a Mk 1.75b technically (or was it a c?... meh). It has repulsors and fancy VI tech. Bit short on lasers. Though that's only due to the lack of infantry scale weaponized lasers in stock. (Miniaturized Energy Weapons tech hint hint)

The Mk II can mount lasers, but so can the Legionary. You just don't have any.

Click to shrink...

Ah, pity. I guess repulsors and firepower all the way then.

How does repulsor blasts react to biotic barriers anyways? And ME shields in general?

 

[Yog]

One point to consider: this might actually not be a heist, but rather a kidnapping / assassination attempt on us.

 

[Hoyr]

How does repulsor blasts react to biotic barriers anyways? And ME shields in general?

Click to shrink...

We had some debates on that subject. I'm inclined to treat them like the collector particle beam. AKA super effective. Both due to the particle nature and the steam like effect.

There is however a lore issue between ME1 and ME2 where techs that used to partially bypass shields now only do more damage to shields. One could take that to mean that they bypass weaker shields and by the time of ME2 shields got stronger or had the weakness that allowed bypass techs to work fixed. *Shrugs*

 

[TheEyes]

Ah, pity. I guess repulsors and firepower all the way then.

Click to shrink...

We also don't have Repulsor weapons; they're only being used as drop-in replacements for the jetpack, to give us effectively infinite jetfuel. We do, however, have...

Current Mounted Armament:
4x Hasta Autocannons on arm mounts
2x Pilum Mk II Missile Launchers w/ 3 rounds each on side shoulder mounts
2x SMG Turrets in AMS configuration on top shoulder mounts

Click to shrink...

...the worst possible configuration for fighting a single biotic infiltrator. In particular, we have no Sagitta mounts, which is really rather silly, since there's really no reason to have 4x Hasta autocannons installed; one wonders why we had a Legionary set up this way to begin with.

Well, only way out now is through:

[X] You're in a perfect position to intercept the biotic super soldier. You stand the best chance against him with you upgraded Legionary. Though your combat skills themselves aren't the best. We've managed to beat a squad of Legionaries practically by ourselves before; one guy shouldn't be that much of a problem, but best to be cautious anyway.
-[X] Get high, and get far; you're fighting a biotic, and biotics don't tend to go for range boosts. Fire 4x Piliums as an alpha strike, and go 3D by using your Repolsor jetpack to get on the roof of one of your multi-story buildings (using the building itself to cover your movement), where you have the high ground, cover, and enough distance that your weapons can hit, but the enemy's biotics won't be able to reach you, or even see you.
--[X] From there, massed autocannon-fire should do the job; duck behind cover to dodge biotic abilities. Bring up your Barrier ability if it does not interfere with your shields.
[X] Have Security send a runner to activate any idle Tigers in our factory, waiting for shipment. Call it a secondary Quality Control test.

Seriously, some Barriers stack with ME shields; some overlap/replace. I don't know which one we have.

 

[TerrisH]

[x] The Eye's plan looks good.