Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

[X] You're in a perfect position to intercept the biotic super soldier. You stand the best chance against him with you upgraded Legionary. Though your combat skills themselves aren't the best. We've managed to beat a squad of Legionaries practically by ourselves before; one guy shouldn't be that much of a problem, but best to be cautious anyway.
-[X] Get high, and get far; you're fighting a biotic, and biotics don't tend to go for range boosts. Fire 2x Piliums as an alpha strike, and go 3D by using your Repolsor jetpack to get on the roof of one of your multi-story buildings, where you have the high ground, cover, and enough distance that your weapons can hit, but the enemy's biotics won't be able to reach.
--[X] Riddle the smear of chunky salsa with massed autocannon-fire just to be sure.

Best not use 2/3 of our anti-tank missiles on a single biotic. Honestly, even one of them is overkill. And we don't know what else may be coming--no sense in wasting most of our heavy weapons on the first target to present itself.

Seriously, these things one-shot main battle tanks. The only reason we're going with using them at all right now is that we REALLY can't afford to lose Revy's research data.
 
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which is really rather silly, since there's really no reason to have 4x Hasta autocannons installed; one wonders why we had a Legionary set up this way to begin with.

The four Hasta setup would seem to me to be a valid anti-infantry/vehicle setup that has both combat endurance and can function well against pretty much any target that isn't a MBT or doesn't have an arc-reactor. Hasta are light anti-vehicle guns going by pre-arc-reactor classification, the idea was derived from a shuttle's support cannon after all.

Also I gave an opportunity to change it. (Or whine about it.)

All though its not the best setup for a extremely mobile and heavy armored/shield target.

Seriously, some Barriers stack with ME shields; some overlap/replace. I don't know which one we have.

The overlapping type. Well technically you'd be using it more for underlapping but same effect.

Though your combat skills themselves aren't the best. We've managed to beat a squad of Legionaries practically by ourselves before; one guy shouldn't be that much of a problem, but best to be cautious anyway.

*Looks at front page's skills...* That's your tech buffing you I'd think. Power Armor Piloting and Firearms are both "Basic" and nothing's changed that so far...

I actually though the Power Armor Piloting was higher before I double checked, due to that update.

Though there may be some errors there now that I do some research... damn it lets go fix that. Sighs.

Edit: Clarity.
 
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It would seem to me to be a valid anti-infantry/vehicle setup that has both combat endurance and can function well against pretty much any target that isn't a MBT or doesn't has a arc-reactor. Hasta are light anti-vehicle guns going by pre-arc-reactor classification, the idea was derived from a shuttle's support cannon after all.
A far better one would be 2X Hasta on shoulders for AMS and armor-piercing anti-personnel use (the Tiger uses Hastas for AMS; may as well do that here too), 2X devoted to that Kasa Guardian Angel Legionary shield system you mentioned in a recent update, 2X Sagitta mounts for massively parallel anti-personnel use and additional AMS as-needed, and 2X Pilium mounts for AT. That's the setup I'd have gone for, if I didn't think we needed to be in the field ASAP; I'm just surprised that Revy didn't have her Legionary set up to something similar to that already.
 
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Biotic super soldiers are rare and expensive to make. Maybe we should try to catch him/her alive? If possible, of course.
 
If this guy is going for our research servers, then going to a roof or flying up isn't a good thing. After all, he can just try to dodge, and then go straight for the server.

Although, I am confused. Why aren't several autocannons good for a single mobile target?
 
If this guy is going for our research servers, then going to a roof or flying up isn't a good thing. After all, he can just try to dodge, and then go straight for the server.

Although, I am confused. Why aren't several autocannons good for a single mobile target?
The guy just used Nova, which means he's a Vanguard, and thus has Biotic Charge, which has the pure space-magic bullshit ability to just be invincible for a few seconds while you charge straight through solid matter. We need to not be next to this guy; we need that very, very much. :)
 
(the Tiger uses Hastas for AMS; may as well do that here too),

Nope! A Hasta is a ~0.6-0.7m long gun (at least in my mind, no update says anything official) the Tiger can use Hasta if their mounted but the base AMS turrets are listed as "SM-01 Point Defense turrets" which I've always read as sub-machine gun turrets. (Is that what you meant @UberJJK?

Ergo the idea of the optimized SMG AMS system for the Legionary. The Fire-control VI is perfectly willing to use Hasta for AMS though.

As for the loadout:

Top Shoulder: Hasta x2
Side Shoulder: Guardian Angel x2 (Single unit)
Arm 1: Sagitta Launcher x 2 (Say maybe 20 40 rounds per launcher...? @UberJJK had some size analysis earlier but I don't recall)
Arm 2: Pilum x2 (3 Rounds Each)

Looks reasonable, to some degree I always think, guns=arms, missiles=shoulders. Blame Battletech and the Madcat. So that's part of why I put the load out the way it is.

Another factor in the load out I choose was the idea that that was the play around setup. Useful but maybe not optimized for certain fights. Though the effect of it not being optimized for this one was something I hadn't thought of at all.

Oh, right. @Hoyr, do we have our nonlethals mounted on the Legionary?

I don't see why not, The Legionary does not inhibit omni-tool use (if properly configured), so that works to. You should at least have access to a space future tazer.

The guy just used Nova,

Yep or something that looks like it anyway.

which means he's a Vanguard,

Close enough

and thus has Biotic Charge,

That's how he got on top of the wall.
 
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the Charge is just the small scale Mass Relay that Bionic can do, it doesn't go through solid matter
Er, well...
This power also compensates for impeding obstacles by allowing the Vanguard to 'phase' through solid objects en route to their target. It can also be used on enemies who have been levitated by other biotic powers, and can multiply physics damage to send them off into the distance.
 
We should have any security teams not engaged with the super soldier be on look out for anyone that's trying to sneak by and get at our research files while he's causing a ruckus.

Because that's pretty much what I would do. Send a obvious, flashy, and real threat while having commando teams sneak by via other routes to get at the objective as the security is running towards the biotic super soldier.
 
I don't see why not, The Legionary does not inhibit omni-tool use (if properly configured), so that works to. You should at least have access to a space future tazer.
That's not what I mean. We bought nonlethal weapons for an omake during the Tiger competition, some sort of sonic device IIRC; do we have access to that? Otherwise we're going to have to whittle down this guy's barrier and hit him with a Neural Shock or something, and I'm not sure if we're good enough to do that.

Looks reasonable, to some degree I always think, guns=arms, missiles=shoulders. Blame Battletech and the Madcat. So that's part of why I put the load out the way it is.
Well, whatever gun we use as our AMS has to be on the shoulders to get 360-degree coverage; our missiles can be mounted on arms because they can be guided, and we're not forced to point our arm in a direction precisely calibrated by a computer.

Another factor in the load out I choose was the idea that that was the play around setup. Useful but maybe not optimized for certain fights. Though the effect of it not being optimized for this one was something I hadn't thought of at all.
Yeah, and unless there's a large outcry I'd be inclined to just go with what we have. We collectively chose to leave the setup the way it was, opting for speed rather than spending the time to re-configure; we should pay the price for that.
 
Arm 1: Sagitta Launcher x 2 (Say maybe 20 rounds per launcher...? @UberJJK had some size analysis earlier but I don't recall)
Over here? It doesn't specify exactly how many a Legionary hardpoint will mount, but going by the analysis (15 in a pistol mag, 40 in a rifle mag) I'm going to estimate somewhere between 40-60 per launcher, probably with a modified VLS like movie-Iron Man had so you can launch up to 5 simultaneusly per hardpoint at close range (<50m), or 1 per hardpoint ar long range (<2km).
 
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That's not what I mean. We bought nonlethal weapons for an omake during the Tiger competition, some sort of sonic device IIRC; do we have access to that? Otherwise we're going to have to whittle down this guy's barrier and hit him with a Neural Shock or something, and I'm not sure if we're good enough to do that.

Sure don't see why not really. The ones you see in the source material are usually only a bit bigger then a marker. I'd point out that from what you can see past the swirling maelstrom of biotic energy that they guy is wearing a full body suit and most likely has hearing protection for all the booms he/she makes.

Not sure the sonic weapon would work past that. They usually require hearing right?

and we're not forced to point our arm in a direction precisely calibrated by a computer.

Eh less so on this there is so much targeting assist and deflection tech in those guns that its not even funny.

Yeah, and unless there's a large outcry I'd be inclined to just go with what we have. We collectively chose to leave the setup the way it was, opting for speed rather than spending the time to re-configure; we should pay the price for that.

I wasn't really planning on changing it, just pointing out that if any one thought it was really insane they could have mentioned it earlier, if they had a point, and I'd have at least corrected that at no cost. On the other hand I did have this even planned out and the connection between the default armament choice and this possible fight just never occurred to me. Or aka no I wasn't trying to screw you over, I just didn't put two and two together at that moment.

Over here? It doesn't specify exactly how many a Legionary hardpoint will mount, but going by the analysis (15 in a pistol mag, 40 in a rifle mag) I'm going to estimate somewhere between 40-60 per launcher, probably with a modified VLS like movie-Iron Man had so you can launch up to 5 simultaneusly per hardpoint at close range (<50m), or 1 per hardpoint ar long range (<2km).

Ohh... thanks. 40 looks about right for a VLS chain Adding in an accelerator for long range shot my remove some space for missiles. Depends on the design you want I guess.
 
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Best not use 2/3 of our anti-tank missiles on a single biotic. Honestly, even one of them is overkill. And we don't know what else may be coming--no sense in wasting most of our heavy weapons on the first target to present itself.

Seriously, these things one-shot main battle tanks. The only reason we're going with using them at all right now is that we REALLY can't afford to lose Revy's research data.

Also worth remembering that AT missiles are fast and we have VI controlled targeting. I'd put really low odds on missing and even if there was a chance of missing we'd simply shoot the ground near the target since an Anti-Tank round going off anywhere near you will very much kill you dead.

It would seem to me to be a valid anti-infantry/vehicle setup that has both combat endurance and can function well against pretty much any target that isn't a MBT or doesn't have an arc-reactor. Hasta are light anti-vehicle guns going by pre-arc-reactor classification, the idea was derived from a shuttle's support cannon after all.

Actually it works pretty well against MBTs. Do remember we demonstrated the Pilum against an (admittedly older model) Batarian MBT and obliterated it with a single shot.

All though its not the best setup for a extremely mobile target.

Really? Because I would have thought 2 mounted sub-machine guns with computer controlled tracking would be perfect for taking down extreamly mobile targets.

*Looks at front page's skills...* That's your tech buffing you I'd think. Power Armor Piloting and Firearms are both "Basic" and nothing's changed that so far...

I think that might be a bit out of date. We have literally had "Basic" power armor piloting and firearms proficiency since Thread 1. That was, in game, at least 3 years ago.

Frankly given the skill Revy demonstrated in the raid, the Legionary demonstration, and her fight with the security teams either "Basic" is completely inaccurate or, and in my opinion more likely, it's measuring of a scale where "Basic" is fresh Spectre level (IE: Eden Prime Shepard).

That would likely put "Intermediate" at ME2 Shepard (IE: Suicide Mission? I'll do it without a single casualty) and "Advanced" at ME3 Shepard (IE: Endless armies of husks? Fighting Reaper Destroyers on foot? Having the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up? No problem!) levels.

Nope! A Hasta is a ~0.6-0.7m long gun (at least in my mind, no update says anything official) the Tiger can use Hasta if their mounted but the base AMS turrets are listed as "SM-01 Point Defense turrets" which I've always read as sub-machine gun turrets. (Is that what you meant @UberJJK?

Originally it was Hastas as per:
[ ] Advanced Fire Control VI (400): By attaching a millimeter band radar and advanced fire control VI to your power armor, you can adapt both shoulder mounted autocannon and micro-missiles to serve as a point defense system against incoming rockets and grenades.
But it did get swapped to SMGs for some reason I can't remember.

Still this does bring up a bit of a flaw in your Legionary design. You have 4x Hastas on the arms and 2x SMGs on the shoulders. However here we have Hasta being shoulder mounted and in the SMG blurb:
[]Wrist mounted mass accelerator. (50) Adding an SMG class mass accelerator to the suit with a wrist mount should be child's play, but it will take a little work.
SMGs as wrist mounted weapons.

Speaking of the Hasta's size:
You completed your autocannon research, and managed to put together a small but incredibly potent weapon that can be mounted on both the forearm and shoulder hard points of you Legionary armor, as well as putting together a larger rifle variant that can be held by the armor like a traditional rifle. It's fully integrated into the targeting system of the suit, and despite it's small size it's easily half again as powerful as the Batarian cannon you salvaged, thanks in large part to it's generous power budget. A very good weapon all around.

There is a reason the tech is called "Compact Autocannon". The mounted versions are smaller then rifles. The fact that they fit on the shoulder suggests we're looking more at something the size of a Predator's shoulder canon.

Arm 1: Sagitta Launcher x 2 (Say maybe 20 rounds per launcher...? @UberJJK had some size analysis earlier but I don't recall)

Going off the various in text size descriptions and the appearance in Iron Man 1 I've estimated the the Sagitta is around the size of a 10mm Auto round. Given that the Legionary is less Iron Man sized and more Iron Monger sized. I figure we could fit a lot of Sagitta rounds in it.
 
Also worth remembering that AT missiles are fast and we have VI controlled targeting. I'd put really low odds on missing and even if there was a chance of missing we'd simply shoot the ground near the target since an Anti-Tank round going off anywhere near you will very much kill you dead.

Actually it works pretty well against MBTs. Do remember we demonstrated the Pilum against an (admittedly older model) Batarian MBT and obliterated it with a single shot.

And that's just the old mark I Pilums. We have the newer mark IIs which, IIRC, are designed for use against contemporary MBTs.
 
does any one know that we make a better Pilum
cause if we have it right now then the Elite Biotic guy may be in for a very big surprise
 
Not sure the sonic weapon would work past that. They usually require hearing right?
There's hearing protection and there's hearing protection. Then again there's little reason the sonic deterrent wouldn't already be integrated into the base defense suite, given that the normal version can be put into a tiny emitter. If we did that, though, we'd probably have to put it into a century-old 2-D beamforming setup so it can be directed much like a DEW, and not just splash all over the place knocking out our civilians. Assuming we did, and there's no reason not to since it's our tech, it's relatively cheap, and it's nonlethal, then it would mean it was already tried and has already failed.

@Yog, any ideas for a non-lethal takedown? I think I know why you're interested--it might just me remembering fanon rather than canon events, but the Vanguard abilities Biotic Charge and Nova aren't yet part of Alliance military training (the ME-1 Vanguard doesn't learn either one; Shepard doesn't get them until ME-2), and indeed might not have actually been invented yet, so we may be looking at the person who first came up with them.

Also worth remembering that AT missiles are fast and we have VI controlled targeting. I'd put really low odds on missing and even if there was a chance of missing we'd simply shoot the ground near the target since an Anti-Tank round going off anywhere near you will very much kill you dead.
Still want to launch more than 2, especially since this is a Vanguard, and so he might be in his space-magic invincibility mode for the first salvo.
 
Actually it works pretty well against MBTs. Do remember we demonstrated the Pilum against an (admittedly older model) Batarian MBT and obliterated it with a single shot.

Point. I was speaking more of the Hasta not the Pilums. Pilums are vehicle murder.

Really? Because I would have thought 2 mounted sub-machine guns with computer controlled tracking would be perfect for taking down extreamly mobile targets.

Sorry... fast moving armored targets.

I think that might be a bit out of date.

It extremely out of data which is annoying as I just copy-pasted it. I'm working on it.

But it did get swapped to SMGs for some reason I can't remember.

Search me. Personallly I've always thought of the AMS as being SMGish on that scale. Hasta covers the Machinegun-Autocannon range which you'd use for AMS on a ship.

Still this does bring up a bit of a flaw in your Legionary design. You have 4x Hastas on the arms and 2x SMGs on the shoulders. However here we have Hasta being shoulder mounted and in the SMG blurb:
SMGs as wrist mounted weapons.

I'm pretty flexible about what gets mounted where barring things that very specifically say "I go here". Which pretty much is only Kassa's Guardian Angle system and AMS configured guns form what I recall. Those go on the shoulders.

I see little reason why a Hasta couldn't go on the arm or one couldn't put an SMG in a AMS turret set up and see no reason to add an extra tech for it. Hell the entire idea for a specifically designed AMS gun-mount was from the TIger's AMS guns to begin with.

The wrist mounted SMG tech is so that you can have a free bee SMG (or two) in addition to the main armament slots. In addition you want an SMG derived thingy, you can use SMG.

Going off the various in text size descriptions and the appearance in Iron Man 1 I've estimated the the Sagitta is around the size of a 10mm Auto round. Given that the Legionary is less Iron Man sized and more Iron Monger sized. I figure we could fit a lot of Sagitta rounds in it.

That's maybe a bit bigger then I usually imagine it. The Iron man suit is way to light/small but the Iron Monger suit is way to big esp as Nearly doubles it doubles the height of the wearer. But yeh its a tad bit bigger then the standard Iron man design. Maybe more inline with Tony's prototype in size? (That one was a bit large wasn't it?) Just not that low tech of course.

I'd almost call the Iron Monger design a small mech, not power armor.

Also It more the mount being the limit as the mount is Ammo+Launcher. Integrated equipment is an entirely different game.

There is a reason the tech is called "Compact Autocannon". The mounted versions are smaller then rifles. The fact that they fit on the shoulder suggests we're looking more at something the size of a Predator's shoulder canon.

I've always thought of them as being more like Warmachine's over shoulder gun. Just more compact due to the non-rotary nature and ME's expanding guns. To some degree yeah you can scale the size up and down. Maybe arm mounted ones are bigger? Or the just come in a few sizes. Though the question becomes when does it stop being an auto cannon.

Worth noting that Autocannon IRL are three to four times as big as the .6-.7m length I suggested. (Normally being around two meters long) That's pretty compact in my book.

I think I know why you're interested--it might just me remembering fanon rather than canon events, but the Vanguard abilities Biotic Charge and Nova aren't yet part of Alliance military training (the ME-1 Vanguard doesn't learn either one; Shepard doesn't get them until ME-2), and indeed might not have actually been invented yet, so we may be looking at the person who first came up with them.

ME1 does not have those techs/powers. Thus they're not part of the human standard for Vanguards. However the tech/power is used by Asari, Batarian, Drell, Krogan, and Volus Vanguards as of ME3. Turians have their own custom version.

Nova only occurs on on human vanguards. Though it could be a some other biotic exploding effect.

Of course a lot of that is multiplayer so grain of salt.
 
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@Yog, any ideas for a non-lethal takedown? I think I know why you're interested--it might just me remembering fanon rather than canon events, but the Vanguard abilities Biotic Charge and Nova aren't yet part of Alliance military training (the ME-1 Vanguard doesn't learn either one; Shepard doesn't get them until ME-2), and indeed might not have actually been invented yet, so we may be looking at the person who first came up with them.
Or someone with advanced biotics (protheans, collectors, asari special ops, etc). I am thinking about collapsing the roof and/or the floor. In general, hindering their mobility should be the goal. Maybe burst a water pipe? Not sure, really.
 
It extremely out of data which is annoying as I just copy-pasted it. I'm working on it.
If you're using SR4 rules, I'd suggest Revy's at around rank 3-4 for the relevant piloting/combat/Small Unit Tactics skills, maybe a 5 for the actual firearms training since it's the one she practiced the most with. She wasn't a slouch even in the beginning, but since then we've spent three years getting her combat training from her N5 mother; by now Revy should be the equivalent of an N-school grad herself, at least for ground combat.
Or someone with advanced biotics (protheans, collectors, asari special ops, etc). I am thinking about collapsing the roof and/or the floor. In general, hindering their mobility should be the goal. Maybe burst a water pipe? Not sure, really.
Eww, I'd rather not let the Vanguard CQB specialist get into a building at all.
 
If you're using SR4 rules, I'd suggest Revy's at around rank 3-4 for the relevant piloting/combat/Small Unit Tactics skills, maybe a 5 for the actual firearms training since it's the one she practiced the most with. She wasn't a slouch even in the beginning, but since then we've spent three years getting her combat training from her N5 mother; by now Revy should be the equivalent of an N-school grad herself, at least for ground combat.

I've gone over the updates and this is what I get:

Start:
Physics 7
Engineering 7
Piloting (Power Armor) 1
Piloting (Aircar) 1
Firearms 1

Family Time+Exercise:
Mom +1
Dad +1
Running +1

Piloting with Mom and Parkour:
Mom +1
Piloting (Power Armor) +1
Parkour +1

Training with security, CQC with mom +Omake bonus:
Piloting (Power Armor) +1
Security +1
Martial Arts +2
Mom +1

More Parkour+Shooting with mom:
Parkour +1
Firearms +1
Mom +1

Mock Legionary combat with Security, Family and Friends:
Piloting (Power Armor) +1
Firearms +1
Security +1
Brian +1
Mom +1
Dad +1

Running while mom shoots at you w/ paint ball gun:
Running +1
Dodge +1
Brian +1
Mom +1

Running while mom shoots at you w/ paint ball gun round two:
Running +1
Dodge +1
Brian +1
Mom +1

Biotics Training +Omakes x2.
Biotics +3


Current:
Physics 7
Engineering 7
Piloting (Power Armor) 4
Piloting (Aircar) 1
Firearms 3
Running 3
Parkour 2
Martia Arts 2
Dodge 2
Biotics 3

Relationship bonuses
Mom +7
Dad +2
Brian +3

Training bonus
Security +2

For those of you that just like to see the end result:
Current:
Physics 7
Engineering 7
Piloting (Power Armor) 4
Piloting (Aircar) 1
Firearms 3
Running 3
Parkour 2
Martia Arts 2
Dodge 2
Biotics 3

A few assumptions. Basic=1 Prodigy=7 (Up for debate, but good enough for a basic look at the skills trained. Basic and prodigy both could be rated higher.) Skills start at basic/1*. Each training action only gives plus one barring omakes. Also Ignores Attributes. Also the detailed list includes social actions. I also took the description of the training action into account. Technically each action should only give one skill bonus and maybe a social bonus or two. I was generous and gave multiple skill bonuses for some actions (Though I tied to keep it to two).

*The basic=1 and is the starting level is from the aircar piloting, since I figured that was from the classic teenage car driving training but in space future,

Revy is a better armor pilot then shooter. Her biotics are about as good as her shooting (if not better after taking attributes into account), and she can at lest do okay when it comes to mobility, CQC and not getting hit. There is probably a command or leadership ability in there too, though even then not a high light of the updates. A teaching thing on the other hand...

Most of the combat training from mom seemed to come in the form of physical exercise, (Running and CQC), Piloting, or Not getting shot. Only one was a direct firearms thing and only one series of war games.

Now I haven't considered anything from other parts as they weren't training, but effects or updates. You could argue that some may count, I just haven't gone over it yet. Also there may be some skills that should have had a base line of one or higher instead of zero and other skill may not be mentioned.

You could also argue that there are some more bonus that I'm ignoring due to trying to minimize the bonus per training action. Frankly though you're freaking busy, you R&D like nuts and then do all the paperwork, so I not really seeing large skill gains.
 
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