This line - and its choice of words - makes no sense to me just as 'oh hey, we're both E6.' There are other words that could have been chosen to represent E6. This entire scene appeared to be an acknowledgment that Kessler has become an equal to Jamelia (where he had been subordinate before), that they both intended to shape the future of the Technocracy as leaders within their respective spheres.

But... I wrote those lines and that's literally what it meant. It's a recognition that "oh, I bet that anyone who hit E6 got promoted into the Inner Circle, or killed - because if you know the truth, you have to be in on the conspiracy or dead. There is no other way".

The Inner Circle is the conspiracy at the heart of the Technocracy that know about the Consensus. That's "all". It's not Control, which is the part of the Inner Circle that makes the decisions. Yes, people who hit E6 tend to get promoted quickly. That's because they're E6 and they have also proven they can be trusted with senior positions since they can be trusted with The Big Secret.

But there were no doubt other Inner Circle members who weren't making commanding decisions, like the E6 data analysts who are trusted with full access to Traditionalist data because they can fully understand the "reality deviant" references. Or the E6 Operatives who can use Reality Deviant magic and thus can pass as Traditionalists in a way that normal Operatives can't - people suspect the technomancer with the gadgets, but they don't suspect the spirit-summoning weirdo of being an undercover Technocrat.

But yes, those lines were literally "Jamelia tries in an IC way to say 'we're both E6' without saying anything incriminating". I mean, look at literally the next line.

Kessler nods. "Let's go with that as a euphemism."

That's what it means. "Inner circle candidate" is their euphemism for "knows the truth about the Consensus".

I don't even want to get into that this (in theory) arc for Rose basically featured all her agency being stolen by Donald
First, I think the mumbo jumbo handwave as to why Sera thinks she has to meet with Rose - complete with the super patronizing reason - is just as ridiculous as apparently the other way around would be. Why is it necessary that Rose needs to know about evil space ghost progenitors? I don't know. It doesn't seem to match any of the built up themes.

Firstly, I can't give any credit to the idea that "the character who started the game as the second in command and who was leading this sub-team on this mission makes most of the strategic-scale decisions" is "stealing agency". No. Donald's role is to make team-lead mission choices. Yes, he's going to make more meaningful decisions than Rose. That's because that's his job as team lead.

Secondly, as for why Rose - and Alex - need to know about Transhuman tech?

Because Gregor is using Transhuman tech.

Ms Candle was a Transhuman body he wiped and stuffed a Jazmin Blade backup into on Ms Clock's orders (because she needed someone she could trust to supervise Yinzheng, and a Jazmin Blade backup is 'she's me, but not as good'). Both the Serafakers we've met are reprogrammed Transhuman bodies which were running Serafina personality emulations. Alicia stole one of them and she's therefore had quite some time to research what this thing is, what it can do, and how it can push its limits. We know that Gregor has gathered radical transhumanist Progenitors to him - so it's not exactly pushing the boundaries of belief to suspect that the transhumanist Progenitors might be using Transhuman Progenitor upgrades.

This is pretty pertinent information when Cross is going to be leading an assault on that base, wouldn't you say? They're going to be going up against high end Progenitor stuff. The Transhumans are the high end Progenitor stuff.
 
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But there were no doubt other Inner Circle members who weren't making commanding decisions, like the E6 data analysts who are trusted with full access to Traditionalist data because they can fully understand the "reality deviant" references. Or the E6 Operatives who can use Reality Deviant magic and thus can pass as Traditionalists in a way that normal Operatives can't - people suspect the technomancer with the gadgets, but they don't suspect the spirit-summoning weirdo of being an undercover Technocrat.

Are there? Because that's never been developed in story. In story, the Inner Circle that Jamelia was introduced to was through Blanc, someone who is definitely part of the leadership of NWO (while he was still alive), even if he was not The Head Boss (Blake). Similarly, Jamelia now is basically fulfilling Blanc's position in the new-NWO, a policy adviser and to Bastion. One of her themes has been revolving around the idea of being the prodigal daughter (to Blanc) and what NWO should be. It fits in better that Jamelia is talking about being a leader (of NWO for her).

But yes, those lines were literally "Jamelia tries in an IC way to say 'we're both E6' without saying anything incriminating".

Sure. And I agree that was part of it. I just don't think that it was solely that way. I think it's perfectly valid given what we know of what else is in the story that this is also the transition from Jamelia treating Kessler as her subordinate to equals, Director to General, an acknowledgment of Kessler's growth.

(Sorry. Death of author. Once it's in the story, I fit it in with the other parts of the story. Extraneous information is, well, nice, possibly true in a schrodinger way, but it's not canon. You've contributed a whole ton to this story but I think it's clear that there are lots of things - that even you wrote! - that there are valid, if different, interpretations about.)

Firstly, I can't give any credit to the idea that "the character who started the game as the second in command and who was leading this sub-team on this mission makes most of the strategic-scale decisions" is "stealing agency". No. Donald's role is to make team-lead mission choices. Yes, he's going to make more meaningful decisions than Rose. That's because that's his job as team lead.

But even in stories where people have bosses and overarching missions, the protagonist has her own decisions in her life. She drives the story within those confines. Stories about, say, an ensign - yeah, they have a Captain who makes those overall decisions, but the story is clearly still driven by the ensign. Events happen and she reacts. Or say, Harry Potter. Harry isn't running the school, and he has teachers who enforce guidance and rules ... but he's still clearly the protagonist.

The point is not that Donald makes strategic-scale decisions. It's that all the protagonist moments in this arc where the story has turned has gone to him. "Donald thrusts Rose out of a significant plot confrontation" isn't him making strategic-scale decisions. That's him basically assuming the protagonist role. He acts. Rose doesn't. I mean, it was a joke, but Rose suddenly appears with the Drs. Rosario off-screen, not knowing what's going on, has a kernel of truth. She doesn't do or drive anything this arc.

Both the Serafakers we've met are reprogrammed Transhuman bodies which were running Serafina personality emulations.

...

This is pretty pertinent information when Cross is going to be leading an assault on that base, wouldn't you say? They're going to be going up against high end Progenitor stuff. The Transhumans are the high end Progenitor stuff.

Right. It's more of the same. High end Progenitor stuff ... is Progenitor stuff. And stuff that Alex and Rose already know because both of them are Exemplars. The new Exemplars are just better Exemplars.

But the evil space ghost hiveminds aren't one generation ahead, they're 50 generations ahead that it's practically gobbledygook to today's science. Leon is still working with people who are in the here and now. Sure, it's cutting edge. But it's just more cutting edge. There's been no indication he's working with the hivemind at all.

It's like getting info that 50 generations from now, we're going to have FTL starships who can hyperdrive and throw planets around like they're pool balls, but the actual ships we're up against are like maybe 1-2 gen ahead: the space ship is a better Apollo, more energy efficient rockets to the moon, faster top speed, better heat resistance. The 50 generation ahead info is just so out of scope, it's not helpful.
 
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I'm not actually in this debate, but I'll point something out.
Are there? Because that's never been developed in story. In story, the Inner Circle that Jamelia was introduced to was through Blanc, someone who is definitely part of the leadership of NWO (while he was still alive), even if he was not The Head Boss (Blake). Similarly, Jamelia now is basically fulfilling Blanc's position in the new-NWO, a policy adviser and to Bastion. One of her themes has been revolving around the idea of being the prodigal daughter (to Blanc) and what NWO should be. It fits in better that Jamelia is talking about being a leader (of NWO for her).
Actually it has. Comptroller Pajari is noted to be E6 but not part of Control. He drifted on the edges of the Inner Circle and besides being a Comptroller was not a policy maker.
 
I'm not actually in this debate, but I'll point something out.

Actually it has. Comptroller Pajari is noted to be E6 but not part of Control. He drifted on the edges of the Inner Circle and besides being a Comptroller was not a policy maker.

But that's... part of Henriette's themes / arcs. Not Jamelia's.

For Jamelia, her connection to Inner Circle has always been Blanc. If it was Pajari who had leaked her the existence of Inner Circle and who had been her mentor, Pajari who she's the prodigal daughter to, it'd probably be different. But it's Blanc and Inner Circle and the contrast through this quest has always been with Blanc.
 
Protip: This isn't Rose's arc. This is Serafina's arc.

Really, her swan song before she leaves the orbit of the Construct for good.

Also Rose being the "heir of Lior" because she's Reina's reincarnation would be far too much on the nose. Rose is really nothing like Reina and isn't even in the same Convention and has a completely different Paradigm. Her path lies in rejecting the future set out for her by others and if that means she never becomes a major leader of the Technocracy then that's a culmination of her themes, not an abandonment of them.
 
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Right. It's more of the same. High end Progenitor stuff ... is Progenitor stuff. And stuff that Alex and Rose already know because both of them are Exemplars. The new Exemplars are just better Exemplars.

But the evil space ghost hiveminds aren't one generation ahead, they're 50 generations ahead that it's practically gobbledygook to today's science. Leon is still working with people who are in the here and now. Sure, it's cutting edge. But it's just more cutting edge. There's been no indication he's working with the hivemind at all.
... except... Leon already has used the 50-generations-ahead stuff. Like Ms Candle, and the body Alicia is inhabiting. He is explicitly working with Threat Null, is a fucking Progenitor, has been shown to have used Transhuman tech on three different occasions, and will have been introducing this stuff to the other radical Progenitors with him.
 
Sure. And I agree that was part of it. I just don't think that it was solely that way. I think it's perfectly valid given what we know of what else is in the story that this is also the transition from Jamelia treating Kessler as her subordinate to equals, Director to General, an acknowledgment of Kessler's growth.

(Sorry. Death of author. Once it's in the story, I fit it in with the other parts of the story. Extraneous information is, well, nice, possibly true in a schrodinger way, but it's not canon. You've contributed a whole ton to this story but I think it's clear that there are lots of things - that even you wrote! - that there are valid, if different, interpretations about.)

So, I went back and re-read the line in context. It was a good read. It was also pretty blatant in context that "knows the truth about Consensus and can ignore a bunch of the Focus rules" was *exactly* what they were talking about. I admit, I'm generally biased against "Death of the author" arguments. I think it gets overused, badly. Even without that, though, the entire conversation is about the nature of reality deviancy. There's nothing in there about leadership, other than the the need to know how things actually work to be able to make certain kinds of decisions correctly. Now, that's the sort of realization that might eventually drive someone to take on a leadership role whether they like it or not, because there's no one else who can do it, but it doesn't inherently mean that they consider themselves (or each other) leadership all by itself. Especially worth noting that they immediately turn to "..and there's reason to think that Rose might know. What do we do about *that*?"
 
Other thoughts WRT the ongoing discussion. Was reading some of the older stuff and ran into this bit. (apologies for the double-post)

Rose? Rose has been using-some might say abusing-her vampire genetics way too much, and has been rewarded for that. Well, 'rewarded.' Some might say. Rose has increased her Blatancy (Vampire) to 4, which means that she basically doesn't take paradox from successful use of 4 dot spheres when you're using them with vampire explanations. Furthermore, some level of the vampire's undead vitality and surprising durability has marked her, boosting her soak. She has also permanently activated her hemophage muscle grafts.

As a side effect of these modifications, she has also been marked by her vampire nature, and now suffers a few vampire side effects. Namely, any damage she suffers from fire (regular, natural fire) is upgraded 1 level (bashing->lethal->aggravated) and her blood is more than a little addictive. She can't make proper ghouls without throwing magic into the problem, but it beats the hell out of cocaine. Originally it was going to be something else but @NonSequtur gave me the best idea from his write-in. Thorn approves of her rejecting her Technocratic origins and tapping into the primordial well of power they built into her. Janice is horrified. Donald would probably be mortified as well if there wasn't a rebellious part of his brain which found this immensely sexy.

Oh, and she's also gained a fairly significant amount of leadership talent and has gotten much better at pretending she's something she's not. But that's less important.

Rose was playing more than just "Masochist combat monster" while she was in the Demise. She *was* leading, in a direct, charismatic, exemplar (not just Exemplar) sort of way. Since coming back, though, we've seen little to nothing of that part of her. Still, she has Mind 4 and leadership talents, and "because Vampiric Presence" can *probably* be used in a leadership sort of way.

My thought... after her flaming row with Sera, she marches into Cross's office, prepped and ready (if necessary) to have a flaming row with *him* about letting her into the assault team. He somehow recognizes that she's broken her conditioning (he'll have the spheres to check for it i some appropriate fashion) and takes the wind out of her sails by agreeing immediately and rearranging the order of battle - having her team up directly with Piero. At this point, she's the only asset he has that can be assured of keeping up with the man, and it'll both have her in the middle of the fighting (making her happy) and have piero able to keep her safe (making him happy).

Okay, it probably takes more arguing than that, but she can quite reasonably argue him around to it. Among other things, een if she does take a major hit, she can regenerate from a blood splatter... and the enemy is going to be hard-pressed to go cleaning up blood splatter while Piero-in-killfrenzy is busy making their innards into outtards. Also, Moscow demonstrated how useful she can be as a just-one-more-contingency on keeping Piero pointed at the right people rather than the wrong people.


Lo - agency, character development, a delightful opportunity for Rose/Piero banter later on, and a reasonable assault strategy.

Other question - who's going to be getting braintapes made before the fight? There's absolutely time for it. Rose, in particular, can be pretty plausibly reconstructed with a braintape and a vial of blood. Seems like the sort of thing that Cross (and Serafina) might want to be sure of (even with the associated potential security issues). I wouldn't be surprised if they both did, actually, each acting independently of the other (which means that if she does get thoroughly scragged on this fight, there's a chance we'll wind up with a Rose-Beta running around).

Cross and Piero probably have a relatively recent braintape and associated samples/data/etc on file as a matter of policy. Serafina's situation is... interesting - though I feel like Alicia might have convinced her to have one made (or would have made one herself).
 
Protip: This isn't Rose's arc. This is Serafina's arc.

Really, her swan song before she leaves the orbit of the Construct for good.

Disagree. Her character arc was the Mexico City arc. That's where all of her development was. This may be the one where she shows it off to everyone else just as Henriette showed off her development from Arc 2 in Arc 4 (and almost certainly she'll be showing it again in this arc against Sanjeet but no one says it's her arc either). It's their triumph, sure, but they're done. They've made their choices and set their path already, and we don't even need to see them (Serafina, Henriette) beyond bare glimpses to know that they're there because we know they've changed already. All that's left is the wider acknowledgment.

This one should have been Rose's because this is where all her development should be happening, the character transformation where she (presumably) overcomes her obstacle and low point, where she grows into young adult Rose. I mean, I think there is an argument to be made that this isn't her arc as portrayed in story but that's more an acknowledgment that the protagonist moments went to Donald. That's a separate argument as to whose arc it should have been, and I made the argument that this should have been Rose's, but whatever, done is done, Donald's (extended) arc, here we come.

Also Rose being the "heir of Lior" because she's Reina's reincarnation would be far too much on the nose. Rose is really nothing like Reina and isn't even in the same Convention and has a completely different Paradigm. Her path lies in rejecting the future set out for her by others and if that means she never becomes a major leader of the Technocracy then that's a culmination of her themes, not an abandonment of them.

Right. I agree that we rejected subsuming Rose for Reina and Rose isn't a Reina copy. I posited that a possible future for Rose would have been to lead the Construct Movement, playing off both her own suggestion that constructs don't have to stay with their convention, inspired by Reina's leadership, but a rejection of Reina's goals (the people rather than the god machine, the peace instead of the endless war). You don't need to be a copy of Reina to be inspired by her, and you can even be inspired in different ways. I think she should learn something from Reina because otherwise, the story is - saw a great leader, didn't really agree with her, don't think I can change anything, just gonna be my moeblob self forever. Welp.

... except... Leon already has used the 50-generations-ahead stuff. Like Ms Candle, and the body Alicia is inhabiting. He is explicitly working with Threat Null, is a fucking Progenitor, has been shown to have used Transhuman tech on three different occasions, and will have been introducing this stuff to the other radical Progenitors with him.

I didn't see anything in Candle or Alicia that's anywhere near ISOBEL. As exemplified by the fact that no one even batted an eye in the Candle fight - and in fact, the real threat was Yinzheng, who kicked ass as her normal nwooblet self - whereas everyone went OMGWTF in relation to ISOBEL and their thoughts on her abilities (and of course, her canon feat of taking down an entire DC team with her). As far as we can tell, the evil space ghost hivemind, ISOBEL aside, basically spend their time ... doing nothing on Earth. There's been Blanc... There's been Anathema and God Machine.... Those are the only people we've seen contact and work with Clock and Co. Maybe the Resident at one point.

But alien invader VEs and ISOBEL both acted like rogue actors, not ones working with evil Panopticon and Clock.

If Leon already had info from the hivemind, he would need labs and people to work with ... but he wouldn't need Exemplar research because he'd already know what to do. The fact that he has to base it off of that is indication that it's working off of present-day research, just more cutting edge, not 50 gen ahead to the point where no one even knows where to start to get to ISOBEL.

So, I went back and re-read the line in context. It was a good read. It was also pretty blatant in context that "knows the truth about Consensus and can ignore a bunch of the Focus rules" was *exactly* what they were talking about.

I agreed that it was talking about E6... but it was definitely also about leadership in my reading.

"You know," she says, "how much time did you spend around people in the Inner Circle?"

"Me?" Kessler shrugs. "At first, not much. I was just a grunt. Once I trained as an enlightened scientist, I saw more of them. Old General Williamson was the one my unit reported to in the end, and he'd take an interest in us from... oh, '86 onwards or so. After we bagged that big Taftani HVT and got medals for it. Occasionally we'd get passed down some new gear he wanted us to field test, straight from Autochthonia. Sometimes he'd have missions and ask for us 'specially. Those were usually the toughest ones, but always seemed to come with medals."

"Mmm," Jamelia says. "My mentor was Inner Circle. Jeremiah Blanc. They were the ones who were setting such policies. I always wondered exactly what you had to do to get onto the Inner Circle."

"Always seemed to me that it was a mix of long service and talent," Kessler says, with a casual shrug.

"Pretty much all the Inner Circle moved out to space," she says.

"Gotta be careful 'bout Traditionalist assassins."

"Yes. Of course. And of course, most forms of hypertech work much better in sterile space stations."

"Yeah. Or not even in sterile space stations. On Xanadu and in that Hollywood-y noetic space, I could overclock my old boosts to a way that'd have them failing on Earth."

Both of them are leaning forwards by this point. She thinks he knows. She thinks he thinks she knows.

"So," Jamelia says softly, "the question is this: what qualified a person for the Inner Circle? What made a person suitable for judging whether something was Reality Deviancy or not? What would one have to do - to know - to join their illustrious ranks?"

When Jamelia talks about Inner Circle, she's very clear that her view is heavily related to Blanc and specifically, that the Inner Circle sets policy for the Technocracy. These are the people who determine what being a Technocrat is as opposed to being a RD. The Inner Circle, for Jamelia, is wrapped up in idea of policy setting (exemplified in psychic NWO bouncing back and forth as to whether it's RD or not).

"Yes. We do. First question. What about Command?" Kessler says. "Do they know about this whole thing?"

"No." Jamelia says, and her answer comes much faster. "I think they're the blind leading the blind, or if they know, they're doing a good job of pretending not to. I don't think the decisions they're making on research and development are being deliberately considered so much as shaped by what we need to keep things from falling apart."

"Dangerous game. What people are considering plausible, near-future science fiction is getting increasingly high-tech. Our upgrade cycles are becoming shorter and shorter." Kessler assents.

Contrast this with her thoughts on the IC being policy makers who can determine what's going on. This is a condemnation or at least, acknowledgment that Command is not fully in control. :V Well, of course, it's true that Jamelia states they are just candidates for the Inner Circle, which I thought was telling. E6 is a prerequisite, necessary but not sufficient in and of itself, to be Inner Circle. To be Inner Circle is to actually help set the course of the Technocracy (policy making).
 
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Are there? Because that's never been developed in story. In story, the Inner Circle that Jamelia was introduced to was through Blanc, someone who is definitely part of the leadership of NWO (while he was still alive), even if he was not The Head Boss (Blake). Similarly, Jamelia now is basically fulfilling Blanc's position in the new-NWO, a policy adviser and to Bastion. One of her themes has been revolving around the idea of being the prodigal daughter (to Blanc) and what NWO should be. It fits in better that Jamelia is talking about being a leader (of NWO for her).

The Inner Circle in PQ is just what the Inner Circle in the Order of Reason is.

It's the people who have passed the threshold to understand that what they do is magic, rather than just clever tools and skills. As the Order of Reason's paradigm has solidified, this has creeped upwards from Arete 4+ to Arete 6+, but the conceptual underpinning isn't really "the leadership" but rather "the trusted people in the know."

Not all major leadership positions were Inner Circle and not all Inner Circle members were major leadership. There were guys like Brandenberg who had control of a good chunk of the business world but were Enlightenment 5 because they never faced the challenges needed to reexamine and break their paradigm, but were good enough leaders that they could be in major circles. Just not... the most major. Not on Control and the leadership immediately below that.
 
If Leon already had info from the hivemind, he would need labs and people to work with ... but he wouldn't need Exemplar research because he'd already know what to do. The fact that he has to base it off of that is indication that it's working off of present-day research, just more cutting edge, not 50 gen ahead to the point where no one even knows where to start to get to ISOBEL.

Okay. Stop.

"50 Generations ahead" means precisely nothing in and of itself. It's a focus, nothing more. In the hands of modern Progenitors, the reason Transhuman technology is scary is that a) it might indoctrinate you into the Hivemind, b) it might give you Transhuman spirit Charms, and c) it's a super-flexible focus for whatever biological bullshit you want to pull off, outside the normal Progenitor limits of what they can do with their tech. Oh, and d) it might indoctrinate you into the Hivemind which lets you trade your soul for Spirit Charms. I realise that d) is a mix of a) and b), but they're scary.

Transhuman cells can, with the right spheres, make you as tough as an Iteration X combat unit while still having all the advantages of normal biotech - Progenitor stuff finds that much harder at a focus level.

You know why I-50 was so powerful, at a raw mechanical level? Because they spent a lot of quintessence loading her body up with effects and upgrades and welded an Avatar onto her mind. She was so dangerous because the Transhumans spent more quintessence on making her than was spent on making Rose, and that was a hell of a lot to start with. She was far from a baseline model. Taking her as the baseline is like taking Rose as the baseline Technocracy construct, when the baseline is much more like the "human with a few upgrades" seen in a wide range of things.

But what Gregor having access to Transhuman tech lets him do is lets him use "this shit does all this amazing stuff" as a focus and lets anyone he upgrades with it do it as a focus. And he also has access to a number of Transhuman bodies - not any I-50s as far as we know, but that's still a risk - that he's shown entirely willing to load up with human minds and deploy as elite constructs.
 
By extension... worth noting that Leon is making it all a major ritual, involving lots of cooperation from entire other teams in order to farm him his ingredients. If he wanted to both do that and make full use of I-50-style tech, that would mean he'd have to farm out the specs to I-50-style tech as well. Exemplar tech, though, is based on current tech levels, which means he can leverage his support structure a lot better (though nothing prevents him from juicing it up a little with the good stuff on his own time).
 
"50 Generations ahead" means precisely nothing in and of itself. It's a focus, nothing more. In the hands of modern Progenitors, the reason Transhuman technology is scary is that a) it might indoctrinate you into the Hivemind, b) it might give you Transhuman spirit Charms, and c) it's a super-flexible focus for whatever biological bullshit you want to pull off, outside the normal Progenitor limits of what they can do with their tech. Oh, and d) it might indoctrinate you into the Hivemind which lets you trade your soul for Spirit Charms. I realise that d) is a mix of a) and b), but they're scary.

Here's the part where I'm confused. This is a very game meta reason. Does Serafina know this? She can't, right? Within the confines of the story / knowledge, all she knows is that the memories being transferred is about Isobel...

You know why I-50 was so powerful, at a raw mechanical level? Because they spent a lot of quintessence loading her body up with effects and upgrades and welded an Avatar onto her mind. She was so dangerous because the Transhumans spent more quintessence on making her than was spent on making Rose, and that was a hell of a lot to start with. She was far from a baseline model.

Who is apparently a super special and expensive construct far beyond what most other people can do. Doesn't that make the info on Isobel even less helpful then? Because if she's not baseline for her faction, that's not what will be the opposition (even if you were to just assume Gregor can get to the level of her faction's baseline).

This has to be info worth breaking her own security right now at the most delicate time to let out so it has to be worth the risk. Does Serafina suspect that Isobel will be an opponent? Does she think Gregor will be able to create an Isobel or something with Isobel's demonstrated capabilities? Has Gregor even talked to the Progenitor Hivemind (well, the better question is whether Serafina thinks he did)?

I mean, if she thinks we're about to face an army of Isobels, sure, that seems compelling enough for her to make the effort. (But if we're about to face an army of Isobels, I'm pretty sure the answer is not prepare to fight them mano a mano but evacuate and nuke Tokyo so even then, that seems a bit strange.) But the way you explained this, the answer seems to be no (???).

But what Gregor having access to Transhuman tech lets him do is lets him use "this shit does all this amazing stuff" as a focus and lets anyone he upgrades with it do it as a focus. And he also has access to a number of Transhuman bodies - not any I-50s as far as we know, but that's still a risk - that he's shown entirely willing to load up with human minds and deploy as elite constructs.

But... this is normal (for PQ)? Isn't this just the P-50s (the ones Jamelia didn't like) or Kessler's new body or any of the other brain overrides we've seen like Candle stuck in a better than baseline human body? Aren't all of them just the the normal elite and super scary Constructs? I'm not seeing anything that's really strange once you keep in mind that it's going to be Constructs, Progenitor version, probably eliter than the normal elite Exemplars, all the way down.

These are game meta reasons, but I don't understand why she would do this on a character basis.

Edit: Those effect sound really cool though. Hope we get to see them come into play. Suddenly hivemind would be pretty amazing.
 
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"This is the sort of thing that their technology can be used to make" and "this is how their stuff is put together" is an entirely IC-usable bit of information. Presumably knowing about their technology, in-character, lets Serafina and Rose and Alex and whoever use their bullshit high knowledge of biology to devise effective countermeasures. For us, who are not crazy bullshit superbiologist supergeniuses, that amounts to "we can use their Abilities to countermagick and otherwise use Procedures to do stuff regarding the Transhuman-based stuff", but that abstraction doesn't mean that IC it isn't real and meaningful information.

Basically there's a difference between "being meta" and "working through layers of abstraction so we can tell stories about people smarter than we are".

Edit: Translated into Conventionspeak, "can get Transhuman Spirit Charms" and "soultrade" almost certainly are just getting capabilities from having bits of posthuman superbiology implanted in yourself, plus the unfortunate side-effects of "using technology way more advanced than what you understand and which makes things almost dangerously easy". Effectively, it's like if you got the Spirit Charms "Protoss Charge" and "Construct Pylon" by implanting bits of Zealot and Probe technology that you don't really understand (read: you don't have the Spheres so you have to soultrade for the powers).
 
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Basically what @Quantumboost said.

Or, to put in FATE-like terms, I'm hoping this briefing will put an aspect of "Prepared for Transhuman Bullshit" on the attack, which means that if Gregor tries to invoke aspects or stunts involving Transhuman bullshit, we have an aspect in place to counter/mitigate it.

Urgh, I had to break out FATE metaphors. Now I feel unclean.
 
Disagree. Her character arc was the Mexico City arc. That's where all of her development was. This may be the one where she shows it off to everyone else just as Henriette showed off her development from Arc 2 in Arc 4 (and almost certainly she'll be showing it again in this arc against Sanjeet but no one says it's her arc either). It's their triumph, sure, but they're done. They've made their choices and set their path already, and we don't even need to see them (Serafina, Henriette) beyond bare glimpses to know that they're there because we know they've changed already. All that's left is the wider acknowledgment.

This one should have been Rose's because this is where all her development should be happening, the character transformation where she (presumably) overcomes her obstacle and low point, where she grows into young adult Rose. I mean, I think there is an argument to be made that this isn't her arc as portrayed in story but that's more an acknowledgment that the protagonist moments went to Donald. That's a separate argument as to whose arc it should have been, and I made the argument that this should have been Rose's, but whatever, done is done, Donald's (extended) arc, here we come.

The obstacle she overcame wasn't the glass ceiling for constructs, though. It was her own indecisiveness and her identity as being a creature of the union by the union and for the union. She's found a coping mechanism, but it's probably not enough, and maybe there can be something made to deal with that and how she needs something more. But facing down her obsolescence and her conditioning was most of her arc, as it was, and now it's about building her up to be herself, not to just duplicate Reina. Because Reina was her Charybdis to Thorn's Scylla. More critically, I think @Cornuthaum mentioned that Donald never really had an arc. He was incredibly useful, sure, but because he was sane and well-adjusted he was basically taken for granted. Rose had a lot of conflict with herself, and just because her feelings on it weren't ever expounded on is partially on me, but also partially because people didn't do nearly enough theorizing on what and how Rose's acting.

I do plan on resolving Donald's story of being the outsider who can play at being an insider, a man who has stepped in both worlds and understands both the good the Union can do, the evil that it must do for that good, and how its enemy may have the best of intentions and the worst of results. And I think describing him that way should tell you how this is likely going to end.
 
Financial, but not chemical. Fate really likes psychotropic drugs, and Donald still knows where to get the good shit.
Ahhh. If you can't buy it outright, then at least know how to bribe it properly? I can see that.

"Donald? Why is there an old guy, in a brown robe, with an enormous book, completely blitzed off his ass on something illegal, slumped over in the corner? Should I be concerned?"
"He'll probably finish sleeping it off in about eight hours so... not until then?"
 
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Ahhh. If you can't buy it outright, then at least know how to bribe it properly? I can see that.

"Donald? Why is there an old guy, in a brown robe, with an enormous book, completely blitzed off his ass on something illegal, slumped over in the corner? Should I be concerned?"
"He'll probably finish sleeping it off in about eight hours so... not until then?"

Well, I suppose that's better than finding another younger-than-she-looks red-eyed vat-clone supersoldier sprawled out on his couch.

Rose would get her hackles up if Donald acquired another one.
 
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