Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
I was wondering why we hadn't found any.
Well it was partly for their own benefit, but also partly because the idea of a super-demon with telepathy was god damn terrifying. Part of the worry being it would effectively magnify their intelligence.

Borrow from Sachiko: $2 million
You don't have to specify this, you're essentially running a credit line. After Tokyo is cleared assuming you've survived the total equity purchase will be calculated.


Another comment I forgot to make (and which was always planned contingency in case your attempts to train in artifact powering failed, because contingency plans are good):
Risa is willing to assist you in your battles this month. She is a highly capable elite longbow-woman that can power the artifact with ease. She's also Hiko's second in command, and has over a decade experience as a magical girl. Her personal morale is more than high enough to deal with Serena. She came out this month in large part because she is a powerful fighter even by herself in case she needed to escape, but also because she could see first hand just what your organization was like and gather information about it. You've impressed her, and so she's willing to stay to directly assist you in your coming conflict.

Hiko is unsurprised. Risa is a grown woman, at least by comparison to most magical girls, that can make her own choices better than most. Though Hiko will still be displeased should Risa come to harm, it is Risa's own choice.
 
Risa is willing to assist you in your battles this month. She is a highly capable elite longbow-woman that can power the artifact with ease. She's also Hiko's second in command, and has over a decade experience as a magical girl. Her personal morale is more than high enough to deal with Serena. She came out this month in large part because she is a powerful fighter even by herself in case she needed to escape, but also because she could see first hand just what your organization was like and gather information about it. You've impressed her, and so she's willing to stay to directly assist you in your coming conflict.

Hiko is unsurprised. Risa is a grown woman, at least by comparison to most magical girls, that can make her own choices better than most. Though Hiko will still be displeased should Risa come to harm, it is Risa's own choice.
Well that's fantastic, she should be really useful in the Beholder fight. We don't really have any good long-range meguca do we? Mami's more mid-range with her guns and ribbons. Long range should be good for suppressing fire and leading the Beholder.
 
I'm trying to figure out how we impressed Risa considering that we have not been doing that hot well.

we have been doing plenty hot with all these fires starting everywhere.
 
I'm trying to figure out how we impressed Risa considering that we have not been doing that hot well.

we have been doing plenty hot with all these fires starting everywhere.
We've actually been doing quite well, I think - we've killed, what? ~Half of the youma from memory? With only a handful of casualties. We've been running into issues, yes - but we're doing pretty damn well considering our opposition. It may also be just impressed with us in general, as opposed to Tokyo in particular (i.e. just how we treat our girls and everything).
 
The Beholder reduced Kyouko's blade barriers to dust with just a few shots. That means it's not a one-shot destruction even against a non-barrier specialist elite in a weakened state (so vaguely vet-equivalent). Constantly getting new barriers up is going to be critical in order to minimize damage from the eye beams.

Barrier charms might be useful, though given their instantaneous nature, not sure how much.
Do note that it didn't take long for the Beholder to get in those "few shots", so it either has a high rate of fire or else it has a few shots prepared to go from the start. Also note that this happened during the fight:
Yamakage tries to cast a barrier, but instead of a shining coherent bubble, it's more something made of gossamer.
Yamakage manages another flimsy barrier across the tunnel they've found themselves in buying Kyoclone another second as it's smashed apart.
Physical barriers (even if they're made from conjured materials) block the beams to a certain extent, but magical barriers don't seem to be very effective. Or maybe it's just that Veterans are so disrupted by the Beholder's miasma that they aren't worth anything in a fight. We haven't tried barrier charms yet, so there's no way to know whether or not they'll be effective.

Perhaps we can figure out a way to make physical barriers and replace them quickly (i.e. picking girls who can quickly summon copies of their magical weapons to create shields on the battlefield).

I'm hoping we can get two Nagoya teams in on this to deal with adds when we engage. That is, they take out the class 3's that might be there while we initiate on the Beholder, and then they join in when the 3's are dead. With their experience, and Serena's aura, the 3's should go down very fast, so then we can focus all our efforts on taking the Beholder down as fast as possible.
I doubt that the Nagoya teams would be comfortable with the idea of entering Serena's aura (it's probably just going to be Risa). Two of our own Elites are not allowed. And if we're going this month, then our low morale will be a factor - mechanically, I expect that it means that we won't be able to field as many of our Veterans as we would like. @inverted_helix: how are you modeling the effect of morale on exposure to Serena's aura? Does it affect the number of girls who are available to be fielded in a battle?

What sort of baseline do we need to deal with the Beholder? Kyubey made some general comment ages ago, like 3 elites against a class 3, and some number that I can't remember for a class 4. A dozen? 18? On the other hand, that's based on the reduced effectiveness of meguca when fighting higher class youma, which Serena negates.
Also note that Serena's aura does not entirely negate the Beholder's miasma like it does with lesser youma. There was a clash between her aura and the miasma rather than an automatic win. Mechanically, I expect that this will be modeled either as a reduced range (i.e. the number of girls who can be protected is smaller, and they have to stay close to her) or else everyone will still have somewhat reduced effectiveness, but not as much as they would have had without her aura.

Since Serena is required for this fight, and it's clear that all the Tokyo meguca are running about morale 0, inviting them to participate is pretty much forcing them to join Serena afterwards. Some might be willing to accept that risk, though I'm not sure we want to offer it, both on an innate level, and because of loss of control in the battlefield.
Would their loss of control involve friendly-fire? It was said that the loss of control is more of a sense of invulnerability, so they would probably be more likely to charge the Beholder in a suicide charge or something like that. The primary risk is their own death. If we clearly explain the risk and they know what they're signing up for (and that we're not requiring them to participate), then we could make the offer and it might have a small benefit. But I'd be fine with not making the offer, too.

Other thoughts? We need to start brainstorming ideas, here.
Smoke bombs. Flash bangs. Conventional explosives. Ranged weapons. Magical equivalents of all of these. Training exercises designed specifically with the Beholder in mind. Training exercises for the two Veterans in Serena's group so that they get used to her aura and can start acting as Elites. If we are going to attack the Beholder this month, I'd prefer that it be at the end of the month so that we can properly prepare.

On the other hand, you also have ten grief spirals this month. Mostly amongst the girls you've taken in so recently from Tokyo. 15 GCU were spent on dealing with them, and yet one still perished, nothing able to save her, and reaction far too slow to move her to Serena.
This is not good. Serena could have saved her. @inverted_helix: can we allocate a teleporter (or a non-specialized girl with teleport charms) to monitor potential spirals in order to have a better chance of getting grief spiraling girls to Serena? Would a policy of sending all 4 GCU (or 2 GCU) spirals to Serena improve the rate?
 
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This is not good. Serena could have saved her. @inverted_helix: can we allocate a teleporter (or a non-specialized girl with teleport charms) to monitor potential spirals in order to have a better chance of getting grief spiraling girls to Serena? Would a policy of sending all 4 GCU (or 2 GCU) spirals to Serena improve the rate?
Serena was already mechanically accounted for as a further roll on top of spiraling. That roll failed. I doubt we will ever completely negate the need for that check. We were also warned off of sending any spiraling girl to Serena because pretty much as soon as a dying girl hits her aura they cannot leave, no matter how minor the spiral was. Sending 4 or 2 GCU spirals to Serena just permanently mission-kills more girls.
 
I'm trying to figure out how we impressed Risa considering that we have not been doing that hot well.
She wasn't looking at your combat capabilities. She was looking at how you treat your subordinates. Keep in mind perspective.

Veterans are so disrupted by the Beholder's miasma that they aren't worth anything in a fight
This is a factor.

I doubt that the Nagoya teams would be comfortable with the idea of entering Serena's aura (it's probably just going to be Risa). Two of our own Elites are not allowed.
Nagoya would just test the water for each of their elites in same way you do. They could put together at least five that could handle it.

And if we're going this month, then our low morale will be a factor - mechanically, I expect that it means that we won't be able to field as many of our Veterans as we would like
Much of your group is near the tolerance limit without a few months to reduce build up. Any plan that relies on very much time in Serena aura will be running into issues with this.

@inverted_helix: how are you modeling the effect of morale on exposure to Serena's aura? Does it affect the number of girls who are available to be fielded in a battle?
Haven't been running mechanical tracking. Not sure how I'll handle this without a massive spreadsheet and a bunch of approximations, but reducing number of girls available significantly does sound like a reasonable way to approximate it.

Also note that Serena's aura does not entirely negate the Beholder's miasma like it does with lesser youma. There was a clash between her aura and the miasma rather than an automatic win. Mechanically, I expect that this will be modeled either as a reduced range (i.e. the number of girls who can be protected is smaller, and they have to stay close to her) or else everyone will still have somewhat reduced effectiveness, but not as much as they would have had without her aura.
Mechanically this is modeled as just reduced effects from both auras.

I mean I haven't perfected mechanics for it, but spitballing I was putting Vets at 30% effectiveness in a Class 4 miasma. Essentially nearly completely useless with a high probability of just shutting down. Elites are somewhere around 70% combat effective. (Part of Kyoclone's panic was magical, but part of it was just actually knowing that she'd die if she fought. Twin Kyoukos can fight a defensive battle against most Youma for a fair bit in combat terms, but they'd never be able to win that battle, and against more than one Youma not even counting the Beholder and without her twin, it really would be suicide. Another round or two and the Mantis would have killed her even without the Beholder and she was getting godlike rolls.)

Numbers on aura effects with Serena are even less firm. Somewhere along the lines of 85/50 is probably what you're going to be experiencing. Partly because you aren't just dealing with the Beholder, but any Youma supports it has. Miasma effects stack up.

This is not good. Serena could have saved her. @inverted_helix: can we allocate a teleporter (or a non-specialized girl with teleport charms) to monitor potential spirals in order to have a better chance of getting grief spiraling girls to Serena? Would a policy of sending all 4 GCU (or 2 GCU) spirals to Serena improve the rate?
Serena was already mechanically accounted for as a further roll on top of spiraling. That roll failed. I doubt we will ever completely negate the need for that check. We were also warned off of sending any spiraling girl to Serena because pretty much as soon as a dying girl hits her aura they cannot leave, no matter how minor the spiral was. Sending 4 or 2 GCU spirals to Serena just permanently mission-kills more girls.
This is accurate. There is a secondary roll that you can recognize and transport them on time.

Any spiraling girl regardless of what the outcome would be otherwise that goes to Serena is there permanently.

Also telling spiral severity before the end is hard. That's not something you know looking at them.
 
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Kyuubey's general comment was 3 elites against a 3, and at least 15 against a 4. Except you've since realized that Kyuubey's estimates were basically aiming for mutual annihilation. (Since that's the traditional way in which elite population was prevented from accumulating in an area endlessly.)
I mean I haven't perfected mechanics for it, but spitballing I was putting Vets at 30% effectiveness in a Class 4 miasma. Essentially nearly completely useless with a high probability of just shutting down. Elites are somewhere around 70% combat effective.

Numbers on with Serena are even less firm. Somewhere along the lines of 85/50 is probably what you're going to be experiencing. Partly because you aren't just dealing with the Beholder, but any Youma supports it has. Miasma effects stack up.
So, looking at about 12 elites to be a mutual-destruction level balance. This will improve the faster we can kill any adds that tag along.

Much of your group is near the tolerance limit without a few months to reduce build up. Any plan that relies on very much time in Serena aura will be running into issues with this.
And it has to be a fast fight. No long, complicated strategies.

Should push the fight towards the end of the month, too. Maybe 3 weeks of general prep, and fight in the last week, to give a small bit of tolerance recovery time.

Currently available:
Serena + 4 effective elites + 2 vets
4 SIMP elites: Mami, Kyouko, Kyouclone, Taya. Seto and Miho cannot enter.
5 Nagoya elites
Risa (presumed elite?)

Total: 15 elites

Really painful that Miho can't enter Serena's field, as her earthbending would be the perfect tool to keep people shielded during the fight. Stupid nat 1.

Tactically, probably want to have multiple 'teams', each making an assault on the Beholder while shields are up, and then fall back when it focuses on them, giving time to put their shields back up, and another group to continue damage the Beholder and draw its focus.

Looking at the above groups, it looks like three teams would be best: Serena team, Mami team (including Risa), and Nagoya team. 5 elites (plus possible vet support) should be able to burn through a youma pretty quick, and we want to clear out any youma adds as fast as possible right at the start. The faster those adds are gone, the easier the fight gets, since that'd also reduce the miasma penalty.

Vets at 30% effectiveness are useless, but at 50% with Serena might be able to provide secondary support. If we could bring in every one of our barrier girls (we have 12 vets, only one of which was a recent refugee), whose only duty is to create shields to protect the elites from the beam attacks, it might be viable. They won't be able to do the tandem barriers (not enough time to build something like that), but the barriers don't have to last more than one attack at a time. Use charms as backup when other shields go down.

Healer team is pointless. We're not going to have time to deal with healing on site, and we can't teleport out.

We can maybe see about getting Kaoru up to elite? If we can manage in the 3 weeks prior to the attack (unsure if it would be allowed), that provides another morale boost to help counter the miasma.
 
Serena was already mechanically accounted for as a further roll on top of spiraling. That roll failed. I doubt we will ever completely negate the need for that check.
Obviously. What I'm trying to get is a way to increase the odds of that the secondary roll will succeed. Right now I think the odds were that something like half of the girls who would die are instead sent to Serena. If we can spend meguca-months (and teleportation charms) to reduce that to a quarter, then it would be well worth it. But maybe we're already doing everything that is reasonably possible to send dying girls to Serena and additional oversight wouldn't improve things. @inverted_helix: would it add any benefit if we assigned one or more girls to the job of watching out for spirals and teleporting any dying girls to Serena?

We were also warned off of sending any spiraling girl to Serena because pretty much as soon as a dying girl hits her aura they cannot leave, no matter how minor the spiral was. Sending 4 or 2 GCU spirals to Serena just permanently mission-kills more girls.
I know that they can't leave, but it still might be worth it depending on how much the odds change. And all of the girls with Serena would still be alive and still capable of doing things like research and hunting youma and internet-based jobs like translation, so "mission-killed" is somewhat overstating it.

Also telling spiral severity before the end is hard. That's not something you know looking at them.
What I'm proposing is that if it seems that a girl is spiraling hard (e.g. if it looks like she's going to be a 4 GCU spiral), then she would immediately be teleported to Serena as quickly as possible. There must be some way of approximating this, otherwise we wouldn't be able to send any of them to Serena. If my math is correct, then we should send about 4 girls to Serena who wouldn't have needed it for every one girl who is saved from death. That seems to me like a reasonable compromise.
Assuming that the proportion of dying girls who make it to Serena is currently 50%:
If 32 girls spiral, we would expect:
16 to be saved by 1 GCU
8 to be saved by 2 GCU
4 to be saved by 4 GCU (but who get sent to Serena anyway)
2 sent to Serena who would have got there safely despite this measure
1 sent to Serena whose life was saved
1 who dies despite our best efforts[/QUOTE]
 
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Obviously. What I'm trying to get is a way to increase the odds of that the secondary roll will succeed. Right now I think the odds were that something like half of the girls who would die are instead sent to Serena. If we can spend meguca-months (and teleportation charms) to reduce that to a quarter, then it would be well worth it. But maybe we're already doing everything that is reasonably possible to send dying girls to Serena and additional oversight wouldn't improve things. @inverted_helix: would it add any benefit if we assigned one or more girls to the job of watching out for spirals and teleporting any dying girls to Serena?
Not without a huge amount of manpower. Monitoring everyone all the time is what you're talking about.

What I'm proposing is that if it seems that a girl is spiraling hard (e.g. if it looks like she's going to be a 4 GCU spiral), then she would immediately be teleported to Serena as quickly as possible. There must be some way of approximating this, otherwise we wouldn't be able to send any of them to Serena.
No, that's not necessary to be able to approximate. It's more when you reach that 4 GCU limit and it still hasn't helped you transport them.
 
Not without a huge amount of manpower. Monitoring everyone all the time is what you're talking about.
C'est la vie. I was afraid of that.

No, that's not necessary to be able to approximate. It's more when you reach that 4 GCU limit and it still hasn't helped you transport them.
OK, that makes sense. We can't tell ahead of time who's going to be a 4 GCU spiral. But couldn't we still set the transportation cutoff to 2 GCU instead of 4 GCU? Wouldn't this result in quicker transportation for the girls who would have died (at the cost of also transporting some of the girls who could have recovered with 4 GCU)? We could say that they would still use up another 2 GCU during transportation, so they would all still be 4 GCU spirals, mechanically speaking, but since transportation occurs earlier, fewer of them would die.

I mean, maybe you don't want us to be able to do this in order to preserve the game balance but (as Aranfan demonstrated), it's still a tradeoff.
 
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OK, that makes sense. We can't tell ahead of time who's going to be a 4 GCU spiral. But couldn't we still set the transportation cutoff to 2 GCU instead of 4 GCU? Wouldn't this result in quicker transportation for the girls who would have died (at the cost of also transporting some of the girls who could have recovered with 4 GCU)? We could say that they would still use up another 2 GCU during transportation, so they would all still be 4 GCU spirals, mechanically speaking, but since transportation occurs earlier, fewer of them would die.

I mean, maybe you don't want us to be able to do this in order to preserve the game balance but (as Aranfan demonstrated), it's still a tradeoff.
Well you'd be sending 4 people extra that wouldn't have needed it for every 1 you saved, so that might be a negative cost in itself.

On the other hand this is actually a game balance consideration. So I'm disinclined.

We can maybe see about getting Kaoru up to elite? If we can manage in the 3 weeks prior to the attack (unsure if it would be allowed), that provides another morale boost to help counter the miasma.
I'm going to say her morale boost won't stack in advance. (It's basically an "inferior" version, much weaker but with weaker side effects.)

Though I would allow you to try to push her up to elite early.
 
Okay, I finally managed to get caught up to the most recent story post. Sorry for taking so long. Work has been crazy and I'm dealing with both deadlines there and on the house I'm building some issues have cropped up. I'll try and get fully caught up and start participating more though. (At least the work deadline will be over one way or another at the end of October.)

Not sure what the discussion has been since the story post but some quick take thoughts:

1: Dang those dice keep hurting us. Hopefully we have rolled out the ones for a month. We need to think very carefully about our options and try to optimize more. However, an alpha strike might very well be the best choice, though we would need to plan it extremely well. It would allow us to pick the time, place and circumstances instead of the opposite. Plus it appears that the eyeball is directing the other demons in ways that make life harder for us.

2: We need more cubes. Way more cubes. I think we ought to consider sending a force out to seize territory in an area that we know to not have any effective Meguca organizations. Wasn't there at least two major cities that had the "everyone is fighting everyone" status? Hiroshima if I remember right? With our greater hunting efficiency, if we could seize that territory we could provide cubes for our surplus of girls, take in more refugees, and also provide cubes for the girl we displace. Might be a task we could assign to Karou?
 
It worked for you reasonably well in the last month, supplementing your cubes. For the most part escaping is possible as long as they are alert and ready to flee if needed.

The reason it was planned is because your cubes are going to be very much a problem with as many refugees as you took in. Without an end of month hunt you'll be at around half the normal reserve level. Which will cause a morale hit, though one you could accept. It would put your cubes next month at critical levels though, you could potentially run out in the next month.

Thank you for explaining the reasoning for more cubes.

Now this could be considered split up amongst say 6 shifts working 24/7 which would get it down to 6-7 man packs and get full pack hunting rate. Or you could eat a massive inefficiency loss of around 80% and keep them all out there at once (essentially the same yield as if you had 8 vets hunting, but a lot safer). Or you could hunt in multiple groups at the same time, but outside the protection of the interdiction artifact.

I would suggest something in between... strong enough to scare off attacks, but not drop efficiency as much. Though considering how things went maybe it was best.

Sprinting in the opposite direction she glanced back to see the Beholder reduce much of her blade barrier to dust with a few shots from one of its tentacles. It seemed like the mud monster and beholder were slow enough not to catch them if they kept running, the mantis was much faster though. They wouldn't be able to outrun it for long. She turned forward and kept sprinting away, to anywhere but here, but the warping environment keeps ahead of her.

A blue beam caught June square in the back, her whole body frozen in a single hit, the artifact still attached to her back. Kyoclone can't stop though, there's no way she could do anything for her now. The guilt at that thought is near crippling, magnified a dozen times. Kyouko, and by extension her clone, are used to guilt though, they lived it for a long time, she can handle it to survive. She keeps running.

Dang... going to have to reread this one in more detail, but talk about everything going wrong all at once.

Lives lost: Hamasaki, June (Healer) One of Seto's girls
2 of those from Tokyo that agreed to help but not join (Clairvoyant and a healer)
1 Kyoclone (Feedback hit on Kyouko, requires an additional GCU this month)

Ouch... wait, is that 4 total, plus Kyoclone? Or 3 total plus Kyoclone?

You will need to decide how much out of this you pay to the volunteer girls from Tokyo, there are 7 left. Original plan way back when was to give them each 2 GCU, but that may not apply anymore.

Gotta keep the promise. Maybe invite them to help form a team in Hiroshima?

Response time of Serena was rolled for (keeping in mind round the clock shifts meant her response time could be longer, though you got really lucky on that roll with only a 4 round response time).
Success of evasion attempts each round was rolled, who died was rolled. Even the composition of the group in terms of whether it was your core girls or new recruits. Plus rolling on a d6 for if there was an elite. You had Kyouko, Kyoclone, Taya, and Miho assigned to this, and there were going to be 6 shifts. So this meant that there was an elite with 4 groups and no elites with 2. You got sooo lucky that it was Kyoclone.

Ouch... need better planning.

Never enough, never enough...

I must... become BATMAN!

(I kinda feel like putting on that Homura = The Dark Knight parody video right now, Homura! We need you and your insane levels of preparedness right now!)

We also learned that the interdictor is not only completely ineffective at hedging out the beholder, but it locked our girls in with it when it arrived. Total cluster, that.

No, it seemed like we shut off the interdiction field before the beholder arrived. More like we got lazy about the Eyball.

@inverted_helix

Did Kyubey give us no warning that the Eyeball was moving? I thought the incubators agreed to give us warning if he moved to attack us?

Going back through the update... luring the beholder into a trap could be viable. Those beams are murderous, but they can be blocked by material. (And we need to get the girls to understand that blues while not instant death are just as bad. Or if we are going to take the fight to it, we could try trading cubes for incubator support in having them clear out office buildings and the like with a fake gas leak. Those evacuations can clear city blocks. And if Serafina stops the Beholder from altering the ground near her feet we can actually have some cover/time for some of the large charge attacks or the girls can attack via range from the windows. (Tiro Finale, Kyouko's gigantic spear, stealing from the Yakuza for firearms, have the girls make giant crossbows.) We could even have battle damage be down to the gas leak that the block was evacuated for.

Send in Kyoukoclone to look for buildings that fit the bill, have the plans for fortification made in advance, and then bring everything with us the day of. Notably, this will really only work if we are sure that entering that zone in particular will agro the Beholder to attack. But we need to get something between our girls and the black rays of despair. Insta gibbing is not fun.

Hmm... not clear how effective mundane weapons are at fighting demons... have we ever tested this?

Didn't we find that explosives had little to no effect on the Eyeball?

I think it's kinda like Walpurgisnaught. Immunity to physical, only vulnerable to Magical attacks.

Here's a sketch of a plan:

Serena and elites go in first, distracting the Beholder from the Vets. The Vets come in behind under layered tandem Barrier cover.


It's not a very good sketch I admit, but hopefully it will give the vets time to pound the Beholder, and the effects of the Miasma should mean the vets can concentrate on layering and tandem casting.

Ugh... I think a mass teleport on top of the Beholder when it's alone would be a better tactic. Though that needs it's own refinement with specific teams and duties, and backup teams in case one team is wiped out.

Translator (1 vet): One of the new refugees has translation powers. Set her up with Hainako to expand their ability to handle job requests.

Hainako takes on the job of getting the other translator, Kumiyo set up with the job. Hainako reports Kumiyo is almost fanatically driven to do her job well enough to make herself too useful for field work, and if anything, does more work than Hainako does. Though Hainako comments also that Kumiyo is quite skittish. Your income from this source is doubled to $11,000, ($9k this month due to startup).

Kyuubey informs you that while Hainako's primitive efforts of using multiple accounts originally prevented suspicion he had to intervene to prevent investigation of this explosion in activity and has set up VPNs, edited records, reorganized her accounts, and divided translation capabilities amongst them into a significantly less suspicious arrangement that more effectively presents the image of your girls being a number of more humanly capable translators. (-1 GCU, automatically stifled early)

Translators are awesome! Hope she doesn't grief spiral. Maybe we ought to make a personal note to thank her for her help.

Also... thank you Kyubey? :eyebrow:

Hiko oversaw your first attempts and gave some initial instruction but mostly left your training to a couple of her better students. She regrets having to pass you off in this matter but she has much to do that she cannot delegate. The difficulty largely lies in trying to strip out the unique flavor that your wish and your personality put on your magic. It's not something you'd ever really put much thought into before. You've always used magic directly for some sort of goal, never tried to experiment with purifying it in this way.

What you and Keiko extract from your tutors is that magic between individuals always differs a little. "Pure" magic unaffected by the caster may or may not even exist, but it's not actually the goal here. The goal is more to bring the magic into a similar enough standard range that the systems in the artifact which act similar to electrical transformers or perhaps a sort of funnel can handle the magic from different casters rather than being limited to only a single one it's tuned for.

Fascinating....

(This was modeled as progress dice if you know what I mean by that. You get 1d100 progress per completion each turn and need 75 progress to complete. Rolls were terrible: 7; 14; 30; 3; Mami 6+10 (for being elite) = 16)

Of course... well, so much for Mami leading us next turn. Mami is still stuck in school.

The Enlightened give off even more cult vibes than your own group, but you can recognize they have either large numbers of clairvoyant and/or they're clairvoyants are better. They can provide tracking data across fairly large swaths of territory. They've also deployed forces to secure the Nagano capital region, apparently by request of the girls in the area, though you can't independently verify that. It's still heavily contested, but lethality is lower as a result of more organized resistance.

Hmm... how can they be useful?

The overall situation is less positive than you'd like as well. Multiple hotspots have appeared in the rural areas west of Tokyo where demon strength has risen quickly enough to possibly spawn Youma. They believe it possible for there to be secondary Youma spawns in the rural areas next month, but the odds should remain low.

Ouch, ouch, ouch....

In general, your efforts have been falling flat. You didn't devote enough manpower to really enforce anything. You've distributed a few cubes here and there to try to leave some of the pressure, but the churn in terms of which girls are in any given location is very high. Lifespan appears to have dropped even lower than wild type life would normally suggest from sheer amount of competition. The band of urban area down the middle of Nagano especially is seeing some lethal fighting.

Though Enlightened projections are that the demon strength will kill off enough of the girls in the area before they can drive demon strength high enough for significant numbers of Youma to spawn, at least should the number of people fleeing Tokyo diminish.

Ouch ouch ouch... well, at least we managed to relieve some pressure. I think we are cornered.

We have no choice but to expand and expand very very quickly.

Kofu you've remained neutral in their views, but the battles there go far worse. It's all Kyouko can do not to die as a trio of elites cut a swath through Kofu. Tezuka Leiko, the single elite in Kofu and some sort of sound user, battles alongside Kyouko with several veterans supporting them. Ultimately they're forced to teleport escape each battle as the girls they face are far more skilled in pvp combat. Some sort of crystal manipulator, a puppet master that Kyouko isn't sure they ever actually saw, and a power mimicking doppelganger that made coordination near impossible. If Leiko wasn't so capable of shattering the crystals Kyouko believes they'd have been finished outright in the first fight. As it was, they fought numerous unfavorable battles across the territory and ultimately the trio of elites moved on, likely because it was just more troublesome than it was worth trying to deal with the repeated attacks.

Crap... I guess it was a good thing we started that support....

Not that we can hold Kofu though. Trio of elite users... do any of those match those in Hino's reports?

Even as it was the distraction those elites provided made it difficult to even manage to keep out the various greens and vets streaming through the territory. Much of Kofu is now at dangerous demon strength levels, and Kyouko gave the Kofu democracy about half the GCU she was allocated for the mission just to help them handle things. They're likely going to need more serious help and supplies next month if they're to avoid increasing problems.

We may have to evacuate Kofu... I don't see how we can hope to hold it...

(Note I've flat out decided major negotiations will in the future require Mami, they want to talk to the leader not the flunkie if you need Watsonian logic. The real (Doylist) logic is that it takes too damn long to write.)

Well crap... that limits us a lot...

But understandable.

There is some morale benefit to better food, particularly as many girls are less fond of cooking than Chisato in the first place. Some have suggested you might be better off with just a central canteen so that they could all eat this level of food all the time, or they might just go to the restaurant you operate, but that would be a bit suspicious if they were all eating there every day without paying.

Well... we'd probably attract some extra customers that way... get a reputation as a hang out place for high school girls.

You haven't had much time to personally talk with Morita Miho, but from what you've seen she's just a girl that's lost far too much. She gets along well enough, and the fact that she still shows that little bit of fire to still be willing to fight for her home is a good sign. It's hard to say what she might have been like before, but right now you can sense the emptiness beneath that veneer she puts on. Maybe in time with proper care she'll fill back in like Taya managed. She's willing to follow your orders at least, though she's very torn about not being on the front lines.

Okay... the earth tunneler right... we need to come up with a better use for her next month.

The technician Hiko sent is far more than that. From what your girls have gathered Risa is Hiko's current oldest disciple, though Risa says that a lady never reveals her age, and equally amused tells you that Hiko would say it's actually better not to keep track. Risa seems like some blend of a traditionally skilled shrine maiden and a college student.

She keeps a hotel room, but is willing to flow between your various bases as you wanted for a few hours a day. She's a bit surprised at your plans involving showing her between your various bases. Her cooking skills are far from good, and from what you've heard she doesn't actually care to be good at cooking, but she's perfectly willing to socialize and help a little while Chisato cooks though. Some find her wearing a shrine maiden outfit while doing so amusing. It does seem to be rather heavily enchanted as grease deflects off without ever marring the pristine white haori.

From glimpses of her hotel room, she seems to be continuing to work on some project while here, though your girls' guesses are completely random as to what. Or even if it's magical at all rather than just arts and crafts. There may be a betting pool you don't officially take notice of.

Hopefully she report back to Hiko how innocent and naive we are...

Ten of the green refugees you've taken in over the past couple months reached veteran status this month, the more comfortable environment and training exercises helping them learn what it really means to be a magical girl. Though it's a very different sort of meaning than what they are used to.

Oh thank goodness. We needed those ten vets.

On the other hand, you also have ten grief spirals this month. Mostly amongst the girls you've taken in so recently from Tokyo. 15 GCU were spent on dealing with them, and yet one still perished, nothing able to save her, and reaction far too slow to move her to Serena. You feel pretty bad that you never even knew her name personally. The other losses at the end of the month to the Beholder also weigh on you like any other. You're doing the best you can with what life throws at you though.

That's... actually extremely good.

I guess the grief spiral rolls continue to eat up all our good luck.

Your group is now far larger than you ever dreamed it would be when you first started it near three years ago with twenty girls. In your private thoughts, you have to admit you expected to lose half of them in the first few months. You don't think the you of three years ago could have believed that 17 of them would still be alive three years later.

Wow... we still have 17 of our original girls alive. That's actually incredible.

Your efforts to deflect refugees from Numazu and Kofu to your own organization contribute to your refugee count to consider being just as high as last month not even counting the mid-month recruitment of those still willing to fight for Tokyo.

Another 27 girls to consider if you can even possibly handle with your critically diminished grief cube supplies.
15 Vets (5 clairvoyants, 2 Healer, 2 barrier)
12 Greens (4 healers, 1 barrier, 3 stealth)

Crap... we gotta take them in. We have to. It's not even humanitarianism, we just have to do it to keep peace with our neighbors.

At least we got a massive number of veteran clairvoyants.

  • Grief Cubes 54 Critical Levels!
  • Money: $16,660

Crap, crap, crap.

@inverted_helix We took the deal with Magik Corp right? So we actually have a huge pool of (borrowed) money to draw on right?

We're going to need that. Use the money to support sending out a couple groups of 30 girls or so (half vets, half green?) to seize new territory where there is currently no organization, and start massive cube hunting there.

We are not clearing Tokyo fast enough. We need to get our cubes back up a lot this month.

From what you've heard, The Enlightened are run by a small circle of girls termed the Intelligentsia with abilities which enhance their decision making in specific useful ways. They then leveraged this into establishing a divine mandate to rule. The religious aspects are somewhat cloying, but they seem to succeed in their operations far more than luck would allow for. They're also known to have recruited intelligence gathering powers like clairvoyance preferentially, you assume to further enhance their advantage.

Pre-cogs?

Great... just great... sounds like Orico troublesome type stuff.

By comparison from what you've heard from refugees, the Sendai Queendom seems more of an accidental government. The ruler was mostly put in place by being friends with everyone in the area. Growth from that point has been sporadic, with growth towards Tokyo and the fortification of that border in response to the threat there presented. Originally they took in a few escapees from Tokyo, but of late their borders have been closed to demon and meguca alike.

Heh... that's funny. The "Queendom" is actually the "queen" of high school girl society.

From your small talk with the various Heaven's Chosen this month, you've heard that Hiko would like to take a trip away from Japan at some point, but this is unfortunately impossible. They have some disbelief at the idea of her wanting to take a day off (without being forced to by Risa), much less enough time to leave the country, which is part of why they're talking about it so much.

Well now that is interesting... I wonder why it is impossible?
 
Ouch... wait, is that 4 total, plus Kyoclone? Or 3 total plus Kyoclone?
One of our girls and two Tokyo girls: 3 total.

No, it seemed like we shut off the interdiction field before the beholder arrived. More like we got lazy about the Eyball.
It teleported just outside the interdiction field, we tried to turn it off so that we could escape (while the Beholder's field was down), but it took too long to do so and then it was too late.

Not that we can hold Kofu though. Trio of elite users... do any of those match those in Hino's reports?

We may have to evacuate Kofu... I don't see how we can hope to hold it...
The three elites left Kofu due to the girls there (+Kyouko) being too annoying to deal with long term. The girls there are shaken, but standing. If we can offer them any more help this turn, we should.

Okay... the earth tunneler right... we need to come up with a better use for her next month.
Excavating a huge basement or network of tunnels underneath the church, perhaps? I wonder if she knows how to reinforce tunnels and rooms so that they are guaranteed to be stable and have good ventilation?
 
I'll try and get fully caught up and start participating more though. (At least the work deadline will be over one way or another at the end of October.)
Good news :D
1: Dang those dice keep hurting us. Hopefully we have rolled out the ones for a month. We need to think very carefully about our options and try to optimize more. However, an alpha strike might very well be the best choice, though we would need to plan it extremely well. It would allow us to pick the time, place and circumstances instead of the opposite. Plus it appears that the eyeball is directing the other demons in ways that make life harder for us.
Honestly I rolled probably 100-200 dice for the turn, rolls had a pretty even distribution.
2: We need more cubes. Way more cubes.
Currently Kinematics plan is to buy them from Nagoya, as the only ones you really have access to in a position to sell them.

Thank you for explaining the reasoning for more cubes.
If anything I underestimated the severity, I didn't do the actual math until after I posted that, and without the extra cubes from the end of turn hunt you guys would have been sub 20 GCU. Which would be seriously dangerous.
Ouch... wait, is that 4 total, plus Kyoclone? Or 3 total plus Kyoclone?
3 + Kyoclone, it looks pretty clear to me.
Gotta keep the promise. Maybe invite them to help form a team in Hiroshima?
Vote ended up being to offer 2 GCU or 1 GCU+money (I forget how much), it split about 50/50 between the offers.
Ouch... need better planning.

Never enough, never enough...

I must... become BATMAN!
Well it didn't really need batman level planning. You just had multiple forces acting in different directions. Casualties might well have been higher without the split unless your plan included Serena there full time, which would have had its own major problems. Namely you'd have run out of Serena-safe time.

No, it seemed like we shut off the interdiction field before the beholder arrived. More like we got lazy about the Eyball.
No the interdiction field was still up. The Beholder just teleported outside it and moved in. It's own field is a kilometer radius, the artifact field is 100m. It was able to teleport outside your field and bring up its own interdiction field over it.

@inverted_helix

Did Kyubey give us no warning that the Eyeball was moving? I thought the incubators agreed to give us warning if he moved to attack us?
This was subtly hinted long ago (though not outright stated), but the Beholder's single jump teleport range extends from the Tokyo core to the area you're hunting. It didn't need to move in advance to reach. The only reason Serena's response time was as quick as it was, was because of the tracking.

Hmm... not clear how effective mundane weapons are at fighting demons... have we ever tested this?

Didn't we find that explosives had little to no effect on the Eyeball?
You have never tested this. As to explosives on the Beholder, you may be remembering that Nagoya has tried charm-teleporting bombs into its radius to no noticeable effect.

Also... thank you Kyubey? :eyebrow:
After the last time around the masquerade damage system was simplified into Kyuubey just charging you whenever you did something that would be a problem and fixing it himself. (Watsonian, your competence in these matters is deemed subpar; Doylist everyone seemed to hate the whole scenario.)

Of course... well, so much for Mami leading us next turn. Mami is still stuck in school.
She doesn't have to be, you can pull her out.

Hmm... how can they be useful?
They largely provided the info about rural territory this month. You certainly didn't devote enough meguca to get it otherwise.

Crap... I guess it was a good thing we started that support....

Not that we can hold Kofu though. Trio of elite users... do any of those match those in Hino's reports?

We may have to evacuate Kofu... I don't see how we can hope to hold it...
The elites left on their own, so Kofu is just dealing with less powerful poachers and an already very high demon strength.

I'll write up the profiles for the elites, they'll have been in Hino's files.

Well crap... that limits us a lot...

But understandable.
Still going to allow more minor negotiations. But anything that's a major treaty sort of thing is going to be Mami only. It's just too time consuming to let you have multiple major treaty actions at once. Plus filtering out some of the context that Mami's bonus to diplomacy (and just being there) would have provided made it much harder on players.

Hopefully she report back to Hiko how innocent and naive we are...
Eh, Risa actually had a good impression. You're pretty soft and naive, but you treat your subordinates well, and that's what's important to them.

Wow... we still have 17 of our original girls alive. That's actually incredible.
Yeah I was looking at my excel sheet and that's what it looks like. 17 of the original 20 that Mami rounded up 3 years ago. I estimate wild type would have around 1 of them left alive at average rates applied over 35 months. So yeah, it's something positive to think about.

@inverted_helix We took the deal with Magik Corp right? So we actually have a huge pool of (borrowed) money to draw on right?
Yes you have access to borrowing millions.


Excavating a huge basement or network of tunnels underneath the church, perhaps? I wonder if she knows how to reinforce tunnels and rooms so that they are guaranteed to be stable and have good ventilation?
Her version of ventilation is basically two small shafts and a fan which was basically just what was easiest and occurred to her first.

As to reinforcing properly, ability to reshape and move dirt and rock did not come with engineering skill. So it's basically put rock support beams every few feet and coat the walls and ceiling in rock and hope for the best.
 
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Her version of ventilation is basically two small shafts and a fan which was basically just what was easiest and occurred to her first.

As to reinforcing properly, ability to reshape and move dirt and rock did not come with engineering skill. So it's basically put rock support beams every few feet and coat the walls and ceiling in rock and hope for the best.
Yeah, if we're going to have Miho do any excavation work we should have her spend some time cuddling up with a geology book, and then a structural engineering book. We also should put the underground training area/parking garage next to, rather than beneath, the church; the pictures indicate that there ought to be plenty of open space around the church to dig up.

Fortunately she's a product of the PMMM school system or I'd also be suggesting a multivariable calculus book, but she likely already knows that. :)
 
Ugh... I think a mass teleport on top of the Beholder when it's alone would be a better tactic. Though that needs it's own refinement with specific teams and duties, and backup teams in case one team is wiped out.
I think you've forgotten the tele-frag interdiction, man. That's half the reason I'm pushing so hard to kill it immediately; the kill-field makes further attempts to hunt Youma in Tokyo proper extremely dangerous, to the point that entire teams could vanish if even the slightest thing goes wrong.
 
Have about 50 vets that have the experience bonus for hunting.

If we ramp all the hunting up to push to 10 DS, we can harvest about 155 cubes, which is just barely enough for nominal sustainability, never mind rebuilding the buffer or feeding the new refugees.

However the month after that (allowing DS to collapse again) would only harvest 57 cubes, leaving us with a 100 cube shortfall.

If we leave the hunting in the base territories to the greens again, with DS near 0, total harvest is about 100 cubes, and we'll burn all our remaining reserves on the remaining nominal + spirals. That's without accepting more refugees.

Since we can't expect to fill the gap from Tokyo youma, our only available option is to expand significantly on hunting Tokyo demons, but that runs straight into the Beholder issue. Alternatively, kill the Beholder this month while doing the high harvest, and switch to major Tokyo hunting next month while our own territory drops back down.

Next downside: The absolutely horrendous progress our team made on using Hiko's artifacts. Seriously, 3 out of 5 rolls were under 10 on a d100. Without even one of them making sufficient progress to be our handler (we had better than 75% odds that at least one of them would), we simply can't use them for that this month.

On the other hand, we have evidence that the Beholder's interdiction field interferes with other youma teleporters, which means we don't actually need this complete for the Beholder fight. We only need it for the later cleanup of the teleporting class 3's.

So, Turn 36, fight Beholder. Pull people off of training on the artifact (maybe leave Keiko on it). Overhunt our territory for cubes, and whatever additional hunting we can manage in Tokyo. Turn 37, finish the artifact training, let our territory drop back down, while we do massive hunting in Tokyo to make up the cubes needed. Turn 38, switch focus to heavily hunt the teleporting youma (as well as any others that have spawned in other areas), since the artifact training should be complete.

Anyway, that's the basic idea. We simply can't afford to let this drag out any further. We need to have Tokyo available to hunt, which means we need to kill the Beholder.

On the refugees... not sure yet. We can't really afford them, but at the same time, if we can throw everyone we can into the Beholder fight, the reward should help balance it out.

That's pretty much the analysis I came up with for a complete focus on Tokyo.

Haven't gotten to your plan yet, but this is Option 1.

However, there are some serious risks with this, beyond just the "dice make the Eyeball kill us."

We are likely to get even more refugees, and this does nothing to deal with that.

There is the risk that we may be attacked by another magical girl group after fighting the Eyeball and taking losses.

We are likely to have a lot of spirals.

It's really really tight on grief cubes.

So that's why I started considering more extreme options.

Option 2: Expansion beyond Tokyo and surrounding areas. (ie not on Honshu?)

Basically we would target areas that do not have meguca organizations for take over. I'll have to go look at the list that we got before, but I think there were two or three cities that didn't even have small organizations. We essentially "draft" the local girls into the group. (National Emergency due to the Tokyo crisis you know). Use the money we got to fund the expansion (so we are providing a big jump in quality of life for them) and we institute hunting practices that will increase the yield of the areas, allowing us to provide for the girls we send to take over the area. (Which will include a mixture of veterans and greens.)

If we can send 60 girls out on this type of take over and provide for them with cubes from outside Tokyo, then we can probably get over the hump. Plus we will ahve a place to send girls who want to join up, but don't want to go back to Tokyo.

Not sure how close we are to closing the vote, but what are your thoughts on this option?
 
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Okay... I got to get to bed, but I intend to post a big response to things so far.

Main thing I would like people to consider is if taking a month to prepare might be a better approach. If we can do it so that we get enough cubes, then that seems preferable to me, because we would like to have some very important information first.

For one thing, does the Eyeball always have companions? It didn't use too. Did it just bring companions along because it was attacking, does it sometimes have no companions?

That seems like an enormously important thing to figure out.

Plus it allows us to reduce Serena exposures, and bring a larger number of girls. I think we have to go with overwhelming numbers of vets. As in 40+ vets in our attacking force.

It would also give us a chance to arrange diplomacy better, maybe get another elite or two.

I just feel like we shouldn't panic into attacking before we are ready.

Obviously if we can't solve the cube issue any other way, then we have to, but I think we should consider other approaches first.

Another thing is that there are pretty expensive cost levels for how much we borrow when, so we should not go crazy on the borrowing money and ignore everything there because of our focus on the cubes. We can take the time to optimize both.

Also, I don't think we can count on buying 100 cubes from Nagoya. They won't want to do that, so we'd probably have to at least pass a roll, or maybe put Mami on negotiating it.

The more I look at it the options to me seem to be:

Option 1: Kill the Eyeball early in the month. Zerg rush it. Then spend the rest of the turn overhunting, training, and hunting in Tokyo.

Option 2: Overhunt + expansion outside Tokyo, prepare to kill the Eyeball next month.

Option 3: Try to seize a larger section of Tokyo for hunting. Basically trying to chase/herd all the Youma out of it, and make them give up on holding it.

Option 2 is the most attractive to me right now.
 
Option 2: Expansion beyond Tokyo and surrounding areas. (ie not on Honshu?)
Not sure how close we are to closing the vote, but what are your thoughts on this option?
It's bad. Assuming we put in the effort to overhunt this turn, in order to put us near sustainability levels, we can't afford to take over another area, even if we had the intel on where to go, the transport to get there, and the wherewithal to take it. Which we don't, on any of those three cases. It's a massive diversion from our primary needs right now, and will continue to divert important meguca resources (ie: the actual trained and experienced meguca we have) in order to hold it, if holding it was even possible (considering that any area that's trivially conquerable would almost certainly have been taken over by one of the expansionist groups like the Junta). It's PvP, and we're not good at PvP, whereas any area that's not already under the control of a group is going to have a lot of PvP conflict. And then factor in the fleeing refugees that are flooding outward from Tokyo that can potentially impact DS and defensibility.

There's probably more reasons it's a bad idea, but even a superficial look at things makes it a poor choice.

Main thing I would like people to consider is if taking a month to prepare might be a better approach.
If it were at all possible, I'd want to, but the critical level of grief cubes makes me think it's just not possible. Maybe if you're willing to buy 100 cubes from Nagoya both this month and next month ($800k total), but that's if they could even afford to spare that much. Plus the refugee problem is just going to get worse, which means more fires to put out, and less value for the cubes we buy.

For one thing, does the Eyeball always have companions? It didn't use too. Did it just bring companions along because it was attacking, does it sometimes have no companions?
We can bypass that by taking the fight to the Beholder, so that we can select what companion youma it has. There's always going to be a couple in the middle of Tokyo with it, due to the standard rotations, and those are probably the ones it brought along with it. In particular, make sure that that one youma with the barrier-breaking powers isn't nearby.

Also, I don't think we can count on buying 100 cubes from Nagoya. They won't want to do that, so we'd probably have to at least pass a roll, or maybe put Mami on negotiating it.
I planned on having Mami in negotiations with Nagoya anyway (0.5), to get the elite support to send in with Serena. This is what helix said on the availability:
I don't actually keep accurate track of population, territory, and cube reserves for other groups. (That would be an absurd level of work.) Merely rough estimates. Nagoya as an institution tends to prefer higher cube reserves than you guys do though. So they could afford to provide this large an outlay, but they more typically buy than sell. This would not be an automatic purchase to get this many as it would push down their cube reserves significantly.

Option 1: Kill the Eyeball early in the month. Zerg rush it. Then spend the rest of the turn overhunting, training, and hunting in Tokyo.
I think attacking it late in the month would be better. Gives time to get the negotiations and setup done, plus (optionally) a chance to train up Kaoru.

Option 2: Overhunt + expansion outside Tokyo, prepare to kill the Eyeball next month.
I don't see this as viable.

Option 3: Try to seize a larger section of Tokyo for hunting. Basically trying to chase/herd all the Youma out of it, and make them give up on holding it.
Youma behavior already avoids our larger groups, but they don't give up the territory; they just leave while we're there, then move back in when we're not. And Beholder intervention is on a gradually increasing chance per day already. We know it's higher than 1% now, and going up pretty much every day we hunt in Tokyo. By the end of the month, we can almost certainly count on the Beholder showing up against any hunting group at a rate of once every 3-4 days.
 
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