Yeah, but I'm pretty sure all the times we did we sent Seto.
Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)
- Thread starter inverted_helix
- Start date
Yes, but it's not really relevant in the least to discussion because you've hardly ever done it and are unlikely to do so again. You usually use Seto to provide teleportation support.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
@inverted_helix
If we wanted to have Elder Haman's plan of governance grow out of the mentorship program, how many meguca months would it take? My gut says 3ish is about right?
If we wanted to have Elder Haman's plan of governance grow out of the mentorship program, how many meguca months would it take? My gut says 3ish is about right?
Honestly I'm not sold that plan is really all that feasible with a large group. A family structure just isn't meant for tightly binding together dozens of people let alone over a hundred.
But either way any sort of governance scheme you plan to implement is going to be a meguca intensive task trying to set everything up, hold meetings, distribute information, divide roles more clearly, set up procedures, etc.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
There are clan based governance systems that worked for thousands of people, IIRC. So I would dispute the family structure not working.
Before we can even start planning, we need to know resources.
Aside from our elites and Serena, we have:
81 Veteran Meguca, 53 Green Meguca
Of those, we had a batch on training the turn 33 refugees: 3 vets, 13 green.
Turn 33 refugees:
1 veteran (cook, Chisato)
39 greens (can't find post with power breakdown)
Turn 34 refugees:
Another 27 girls from Tokyo came upon your forward operations looking for refuge this month. Still no elites, but this group at least had 8 veterans.
8 veterans (1 clairvoyant, 1 healer, 1 translator)
19 greens (4 barrier, 3 healer, 2 stealth, 1 clairvoyant, 1 teleporter)
Mid-month recruits:
Your plan to get help from the remaining girls in Tokyo bears some fruit. 1 Elite and 17 Vets are willing to fight for Tokyo, and many of them are willing to join SIMP in general, including the elite named Miho.
8 vets joining (3 healers)
9 vets just fighting (2 died)
Turn 35 refugees (not recruited yet):
Another 27 girls to consider if you can even possibly handle with your critically diminished grief cube supplies.
15 Vets (5 clairvoyants, 2 Healer, 2 barrier)
12 Greens (4 healers, 1 barrier, 3 stealth)
@inverted_helix - The ten refugees that graduated from green to vet; do we need to tweak the training assignment to account for that? Or just leave it at 3/13? I think tweaked to remain 1/3 of the numbers being trained would make it 6/10.
New Demon strength in Minamiashigara, Odawara, Hadano area ~ -15 (area size: 12)
North (37): 1.1
South (37): 0.0
Rural (8): -4.9
We have a nominal population upkeep of 147. We need at least 162. Need to add 30 to that if we accept the refugees, and another 50 if we want anything resembling a decent buffer. And then more if we intend to continue to prop up the other nearby regions.
How much can we harvest?
@inverted_helix - Our North area hit 1.1 DS, when hunting should have left it at 0.0. Is that an error, or likely because of poachers causing issues?
... Working on spreadsheet for a bit...
Aside from our elites and Serena, we have:
81 Veteran Meguca, 53 Green Meguca
Of those, we had a batch on training the turn 33 refugees: 3 vets, 13 green.
Turn 33 refugees:
1 veteran (cook, Chisato)
39 greens (can't find post with power breakdown)
Turn 34 refugees:
Another 27 girls from Tokyo came upon your forward operations looking for refuge this month. Still no elites, but this group at least had 8 veterans.
8 veterans (1 clairvoyant, 1 healer, 1 translator)
19 greens (4 barrier, 3 healer, 2 stealth, 1 clairvoyant, 1 teleporter)
Mid-month recruits:
Your plan to get help from the remaining girls in Tokyo bears some fruit. 1 Elite and 17 Vets are willing to fight for Tokyo, and many of them are willing to join SIMP in general, including the elite named Miho.
8 vets joining (3 healers)
9 vets just fighting (2 died)
Turn 35 refugees (not recruited yet):
Another 27 girls to consider if you can even possibly handle with your critically diminished grief cube supplies.
15 Vets (5 clairvoyants, 2 Healer, 2 barrier)
12 Greens (4 healers, 1 barrier, 3 stealth)
@inverted_helix - The ten refugees that graduated from green to vet; do we need to tweak the training assignment to account for that? Or just leave it at 3/13? I think tweaked to remain 1/3 of the numbers being trained would make it 6/10.
New Demon strength in Minamiashigara, Odawara, Hadano area ~ -15 (area size: 12)
North (37): 1.1
South (37): 0.0
Rural (8): -4.9
We have a nominal population upkeep of 147. We need at least 162. Need to add 30 to that if we accept the refugees, and another 50 if we want anything resembling a decent buffer. And then more if we intend to continue to prop up the other nearby regions.
How much can we harvest?
@inverted_helix - Our North area hit 1.1 DS, when hunting should have left it at 0.0. Is that an error, or likely because of poachers causing issues?
... Working on spreadsheet for a bit...
A clan isn't really the same thing as a family. It's more a structure with a number of smaller families lead by another family.
8 were from the T33 group, 2 from T34 group. Tweaking is better.
So these would now be:
9 vets (cook, 1 clairvoyant, 3 stealth)
30 greens (2 clairvoyant, 4 healer, 2 teleporter, 2 barrier, 2 stealth)
1 green deceased spiral, no wish magic
Correct then, now:
10 veterans (1 clairvoyant, 1 healer, 1 translator, 1 barrier)
17 greens (3 barrier, 3 healer, 2 stealth, 1 clairvoyant, 1 teleporter)
7 vets (3 healers)
7 vets just fighting (2 barrier, 2 stealth, 1 healer, 1 translator)
Intentional.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Trying to consider a few governments that might work, but the immortality caveat keeps messing with it.
Thinking maybe something like whoever suggested the 'school houses' organizational system may be the best idea.
Thinking maybe something like whoever suggested the 'school houses' organizational system may be the best idea.
Wish Magic Distribution (Updated for T35):
Healer: 15 vets +8 green
Barrier: 12 vet +5 green
Teleporter: Seto +4 vets +4 green
Clairvoyant:Taya +5 vets +3 green
Stealth/Illusion: Kyouko +5 vets +4 green
Telepath: 1 (Taura)
Translator: 2
Cooking: 2
Ability to speak to animals: 1
This should be accurate in terms of available wish magic.
Plus it isn't really something that most magical girls think about. The number that are currently alive past when humans should have died is probably only double digits globally, though I haven't exactly mathed that out.
Healer: 15 vets +8 green
Barrier: 12 vet +5 green
Teleporter: Seto +4 vets +4 green
Clairvoyant:Taya +5 vets +3 green
Stealth/Illusion: Kyouko +5 vets +4 green
Telepath: 1 (Taura)
Translator: 2
Cooking: 2
Ability to speak to animals: 1
This should be accurate in terms of available wish magic.
Immortality isn't really something you need to consider right now. It's unlikely in the extreme the quest will last more than a human lifetime given my writing speed.
Plus it isn't really something that most magical girls think about. The number that are currently alive past when humans should have died is probably only double digits globally, though I haven't exactly mathed that out.
Sure. But we have plenty of girls, so we don't need "effective". My plan uses six girls to harvest less than 5 GCU (possibly even less depending on how many other girls have tried to hunt the area). But at this point we need those cubes.
I would have expected that to make things easier.
Well, it's apparently already at Youma-spawning levels out there and I don't see 5 GCU changing our strategic situation much. We're still fucked if we can't kill the Beholder this month and if we can we can freely hunt Tokyo.
What probably is worthwhile is putting our new batches of refugees through our combat training program. @inverted_helix How much time does that take from our already-trained girls?
Honestly, in my opinion immortality would tend to make government easier. Once someone is good at government you can just leave them there forever essentially. Plus the trust that builds up between people and a good ruler is going to be much more intense.
Also you don't strictly have to form a government this turn. But be aware that there is pressure to make something more formal, and it will accumulate problems over time. Though then again problems tend to accumulate for governments too.
I'm not entirely sure of the question.
The wide spectrum training in everything is 1/3rd of the meguca-power of the girls you want to train. Plus about a quarter that in already trained veterans. I think that's what you're asking.
Surprised that this update didn't get the level of analysis I was accustomed to for the previous updates, guess people just aren't used to doing it anymore, and the analysts have cut back their forum time.
Also interesting thing to note. My original planning notes had Turn 35 as when the youma left unchecked would have eaten enough of the Tokyo population to start wandering away from Tokyo in large numbers. So hey, good job! Averted that.
I need to start planning for more future arcs. Have some vague plans for two more major conflicts and maybe try my hand at some more political stuff if I ever get the nerve to try that again. Plus a "minor request" arc.
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Have about 50 vets that have the experience bonus for hunting.
If we ramp all the hunting up to push to 10 DS, we can harvest about 155 cubes, which is just barely enough for nominal sustainability, never mind rebuilding the buffer or feeding the new refugees.
However the month after that (allowing DS to collapse again) would only harvest 57 cubes, leaving us with a 100 cube shortfall.
If we leave the hunting in the base territories to the greens again, with DS near 0, total harvest is about 100 cubes, and we'll burn all our remaining reserves on the remaining nominal + spirals. That's without accepting more refugees.
Since we can't expect to fill the gap from Tokyo youma, our only available option is to expand significantly on hunting Tokyo demons, but that runs straight into the Beholder issue. Alternatively, kill the Beholder this month while doing the high harvest, and switch to major Tokyo hunting next month while our own territory drops back down.
Next downside: The absolutely horrendous progress our team made on using Hiko's artifacts. Seriously, 3 out of 5 rolls were under 10 on a d100. Without even one of them making sufficient progress to be our handler (we had better than 75% odds that at least one of them would), we simply can't use them for that this month.
On the other hand, we have evidence that the Beholder's interdiction field interferes with other youma teleporters, which means we don't actually need this complete for the Beholder fight. We only need it for the later cleanup of the teleporting class 3's.
So, Turn 36, fight Beholder. Pull people off of training on the artifact (maybe leave Keiko on it). Overhunt our territory for cubes, and whatever additional hunting we can manage in Tokyo. Turn 37, finish the artifact training, let our territory drop back down, while we do massive hunting in Tokyo to make up the cubes needed. Turn 38, switch focus to heavily hunt the teleporting youma (as well as any others that have spawned in other areas), since the artifact training should be complete.
Anyway, that's the basic idea. We simply can't afford to let this drag out any further. We need to have Tokyo available to hunt, which means we need to kill the Beholder.
On the refugees... not sure yet. We can't really afford them, but at the same time, if we can throw everyone we can into the Beholder fight, the reward should help balance it out.
If we ramp all the hunting up to push to 10 DS, we can harvest about 155 cubes, which is just barely enough for nominal sustainability, never mind rebuilding the buffer or feeding the new refugees.
However the month after that (allowing DS to collapse again) would only harvest 57 cubes, leaving us with a 100 cube shortfall.
If we leave the hunting in the base territories to the greens again, with DS near 0, total harvest is about 100 cubes, and we'll burn all our remaining reserves on the remaining nominal + spirals. That's without accepting more refugees.
Since we can't expect to fill the gap from Tokyo youma, our only available option is to expand significantly on hunting Tokyo demons, but that runs straight into the Beholder issue. Alternatively, kill the Beholder this month while doing the high harvest, and switch to major Tokyo hunting next month while our own territory drops back down.
Next downside: The absolutely horrendous progress our team made on using Hiko's artifacts. Seriously, 3 out of 5 rolls were under 10 on a d100. Without even one of them making sufficient progress to be our handler (we had better than 75% odds that at least one of them would), we simply can't use them for that this month.
On the other hand, we have evidence that the Beholder's interdiction field interferes with other youma teleporters, which means we don't actually need this complete for the Beholder fight. We only need it for the later cleanup of the teleporting class 3's.
So, Turn 36, fight Beholder. Pull people off of training on the artifact (maybe leave Keiko on it). Overhunt our territory for cubes, and whatever additional hunting we can manage in Tokyo. Turn 37, finish the artifact training, let our territory drop back down, while we do massive hunting in Tokyo to make up the cubes needed. Turn 38, switch focus to heavily hunt the teleporting youma (as well as any others that have spawned in other areas), since the artifact training should be complete.
Anyway, that's the basic idea. We simply can't afford to let this drag out any further. We need to have Tokyo available to hunt, which means we need to kill the Beholder.
On the refugees... not sure yet. We can't really afford them, but at the same time, if we can throw everyone we can into the Beholder fight, the reward should help balance it out.
Both overhunting and youma fighting require lots of our most experienced personnel. I'd say its better to focus on hunting this turn. This will also allow the youma to de-adapt so that they start hunting solo again. When we do fight the Beholder, we want to fight it alone, not when it has 3 other youma for company.
We should pick up the Veteran Clairvoyants, for sure. But even if we do kill the Beholder in Turn 36, the teleporting youma remaining in Tokyo would still prevent hunting in Tokyo from being as effective as it really needs to be. The fact of the matter is that we simply cannot afford to take in all of the refugees. Nagoya's solution of putting them on ice may not be very appealing, but we might have to take it. Nobody wants to be frozen without a guarantee of ever being un-frozen, but maybe we can work out an agreement where people who aren't in essential positions take turns being frozen.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
We don't have the time. We need to kill the Beholder this turn.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
What Ara said. We can't wait multiple months without hunting Youma at all to hope they devolve a social response to us. Adjacent-to-Tokyo territories are practically starting to spawn more because of our efforts killing Youma thus far creating a major refugee crisis.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
From what I gathered of Kinematics' analysis above, the SIMP either kills the Beholder and gets significant access to the Tokyo Hunting Grounds this turn or it dies. In that case, taking the refugees or not doesn't really hurt us relative to not taking them and is the more moral thing to do.
@inverted_helix - For the turn 33 refugees that we're training, and that finish their training this turn: Would using those greens in hunting situations count as them being trained or untrained?
@inverted_helix Do we get any rumors this month?
Am I right in thinking that the limiting factor on our restaurant is how many people we can seat, not how much magic food we can produce?
- Location
- Head in the clouds
Do or die time it is then. Does anyone have any good plans? Or at leas t not suicidal ones? We need to hammer the Beholder to make it go down, and we also need our legendary/walking nuclear waste analogue to be right on it as well.
If we are that crazy, and I do not think this is a good plan by any stretch, we could try locating the edge of where the Beholder's teleportation center is... and then teleport everyone three blocks south of it. What we do after that I have no idea, but it would be one way to not get gibbed during transport. But we need either shields that take the blasts of the Beholder, or decent defensive ground to cram all our fighters into the stronger zone around Serene. (3 to 1 advantage toward defenders is there for a reason after one)
If we are that crazy, and I do not think this is a good plan by any stretch, we could try locating the edge of where the Beholder's teleportation center is... and then teleport everyone three blocks south of it. What we do after that I have no idea, but it would be one way to not get gibbed during transport. But we need either shields that take the blasts of the Beholder, or decent defensive ground to cram all our fighters into the stronger zone around Serene. (3 to 1 advantage toward defenders is there for a reason after one)
Still working out how many people we have available for everything. The large numbers of untrained vets make this difficult. The greens, even if trained, won't be safe if we need to use rotating tactics for the cube harvest (which we do). Baseline trained vets (out of the refugee pile), even without the extra experience, would be fine, but I need about 30 of them, and we only have maybe 8 at most. I'll have to pull from our experienced group.
I liked the idea of using Kyouclone for suicide runs to test the effectiveness of fortifications and shields blocking the doom beams. Could someone get that power dossier Nagoya gave us on it?
First set of numbers.
Veterans
- Assigned (not counted below): 2 translators (Hainako, Kumiyo), 2 cooks (Akane, Chisato)
- Experienced: 53
- Trained: 8 if T33 trained. Otherwise 0.
- Untrained: 24 if T33 training not counted. Otherwise 16.
- Fighting non-members: 7
- Pending refugees: 15
Greens
- Experienced: 6
- Trained: 30 if T33 trained. Otherwise 0.
- Untrained: 47 if T33 training not counted. Otherwise 17.
- Pending refugees: 12
There aren't enough trained vets among the new members to do rotating tactics, and it's neither safe nor useful for the untrained ones to do so.
Currently assuming that the T33 refugees can be considered 'trained' for this turn. (I seem to remember it working this way before.)
Hunting
North (37 size, 1.1 DS, slight poaching)
- Seto Teleportation
- 11 experienced Vets, Pair, Full Kevlar. -0.2% risk.
- DS: 1.1 to 8.5 (allowing buffer in case of poaching)
- Cubes: 59.9
South (37 size, 0.0 DS)
- Seto Teleportation
- 12.5 experienced Vets, Pair, Full Kevlar. 0.0% risk.
- DS: 0.0 to 10.0
- Cubes: 67.9
Rural (8 size, -4.9 DS)
- 5 Green pairs. No armor. -3.0% risk.
- DS: -4.9 to -5.0
- Cubes: 7.9
Odawara (12 size, -15 DS)
- 6 Vet pairs. No armor. Teleportation charms. -11.2% risk.
- DS: -15 to 2.7
- Cubes: 22.6
Total cubes: 158.3 - 1.0 (forecasting) - 1.9 (teleporting) - 0.3 (charms) = 155.1
Units:
23.5 experienced vets
6 trained vets
5 trained greens
Unassigned units:
- Vets: 29.5 experienced, 1 trained, 16 untrained
- Greens: 6 experienced, 25 trained, 17 untrained
1 meguca used for creating teleportation charms for hunters.
Veterans
- Assigned (not counted below): 2 translators (Hainako, Kumiyo), 2 cooks (Akane, Chisato)
- Experienced: 53
- Trained: 8 if T33 trained. Otherwise 0.
- Untrained: 24 if T33 training not counted. Otherwise 16.
- Fighting non-members: 7
- Pending refugees: 15
Greens
- Experienced: 6
- Trained: 30 if T33 trained. Otherwise 0.
- Untrained: 47 if T33 training not counted. Otherwise 17.
- Pending refugees: 12
There aren't enough trained vets among the new members to do rotating tactics, and it's neither safe nor useful for the untrained ones to do so.
Currently assuming that the T33 refugees can be considered 'trained' for this turn. (I seem to remember it working this way before.)
Hunting
North (37 size, 1.1 DS, slight poaching)
- Seto Teleportation
- 11 experienced Vets, Pair, Full Kevlar. -0.2% risk.
- DS: 1.1 to 8.5 (allowing buffer in case of poaching)
- Cubes: 59.9
South (37 size, 0.0 DS)
- Seto Teleportation
- 12.5 experienced Vets, Pair, Full Kevlar. 0.0% risk.
- DS: 0.0 to 10.0
- Cubes: 67.9
Rural (8 size, -4.9 DS)
- 5 Green pairs. No armor. -3.0% risk.
- DS: -4.9 to -5.0
- Cubes: 7.9
Odawara (12 size, -15 DS)
- 6 Vet pairs. No armor. Teleportation charms. -11.2% risk.
- DS: -15 to 2.7
- Cubes: 22.6
Total cubes: 158.3 - 1.0 (forecasting) - 1.9 (teleporting) - 0.3 (charms) = 155.1
Units:
23.5 experienced vets
6 trained vets
5 trained greens
Unassigned units:
- Vets: 29.5 experienced, 1 trained, 16 untrained
- Greens: 6 experienced, 25 trained, 17 untrained
1 meguca used for creating teleportation charms for hunters.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
We know what it's recorded powers are.
-Teleportation interdiction within approximately 1km, along with teleportation (there is a recently discovered interaction: The beholder does not appear capable of teleportation, likely by disabling it's interdiction, more than once within a specific span of time; currently seems to be a few minutes).
-Regenerative abilities making it difficult to hit and run attack (no recorded mention of abnormally high durability, merely regeneration).
-Clairvoyance mechanically similar to at least half a dozen clairvoyant girls, possibly more.
-Eye lasers capable of causing a variety of magical effects, from magical despair to paralysis (these beams appear to be intercepted by defenses, preferably solid defenses over magical, but magical defenses are untested and we could test barriers over shields in the initial phase of attack).
Things we can (want to) test with Kyoclone:
-Do eye lasers penetrate physical barriers that are and are not enchanted?
-Does it's clairvoyance penetrate stealth effects (can we control how it attacks by blinding it to girls needing a rest or for surprise attacks)?
-How quickly does it's regeneration work (can it regenerate eye stalks)?
-Does it need it's eyes to fire lasers (is regular destruction of the eye stalks a viable continuous strategy for the attack)?
Also should check tandem cast barriers by sending Kyouclone in with a few charms. If we can use layered tandem barriers again, even if it just extends the lifespan of physical shields, that would help a lot.
Maybe we can get earthbender elite to build some prepared fortifications too. Hard to test, since the miasma will destroy it without Serena protecting it, but likely to last longer than handheld shields.
Maybe we can get earthbender elite to build some prepared fortifications too. Hard to test, since the miasma will destroy it without Serena protecting it, but likely to last longer than handheld shields.