Preferably in the next couple of turns.
Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest
- Thread starter Oshha
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Minnesota
[X][Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
- Location
- Australia
[X][Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[][GA] Unlock the Palace Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[] [GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
In Paths of Civilization, we had a major, multi-generational administrative crisis that required the completion of multiple megaprojects to solve. One of those megaprojects was the Palace. I think that we should build the Palace early (and then the Census if it shows up) to preempt the crisis.
EDIT:With the permanent Diplo we'll get from the Urthdysh, our Temp Diplomacy will match our permanent Diplomacy, which will knock us out of the golden age. Instead I'll vote for the Great Market Place since one of our factions wants it.
EDIT 2: Gah, missed the Diplo cost somehow. Damn it.
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[][GA] Unlock the Palace Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[] [GA] Unlock the Great Market Place Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -2 Temp Wealth)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
EDIT:
EDIT 2: Gah, missed the Diplo cost somehow. Damn it.
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you know the marketplace will do the exact same thing right? Its still -2 temp diplo. If you don't want it going too low, you'll have to go for the theater. or well, any of the other non-diplo things, but I'd suggest the theater, we need that culture.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
[X][Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
- Location
- 'Straya mate.
I think this might be going too far to try to preserve the Golden Age. We don't want it to stretch on forever, and the benefits from extra stats, better magic, and better relationships with the Urthdysh are something we'd probably take if not for the Golden Age. We don't want to artificially lengthen it.
- Location
- Kansas City area
[X] [Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X] [Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X] [Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X] [Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X] [GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
[X] [Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X] [Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X] [Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X] [GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
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- Location
- Australia
Yeah, I missed the Diplo cost somehow.
Why not? The stuff we buy with the stats during the mid-turn are pretty good and it's not stuff we can get otherwise, at least not for a while.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Cadlon] Elyn (Female, Excellent Diplo)
[X][Forluc] Accept it with a more permanent alliance between the Arthwyd and the Forluc. (+1 Diplo)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
The not-taken Diplomacy Route, where we do the (diplomatic) tango with two of our neighbors, and create a stable confederacy.
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Cadlon] Elyn (Female, Excellent Diplo)
[X][Forluc] Accept it with a more permanent alliance between the Arthwyd and the Forluc. (+1 Diplo)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
The not-taken Diplomacy Route, where we do the (diplomatic) tango with two of our neighbors, and create a stable confederacy.
- Location
- Australia
I don't think that going to war for no other reason than politics when we have no casus belli and when our ally is a slaver state is good for the development of our religion. We've still got one '???' to go, and choosing moral peace over immoral war will help develop that last unresolved facet of our religion into something positive.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Literally everyone is a slaver state but us in this time period. We aren't going to war because our ally is a slaver state that wants slaves. We'd be going to war to remove a potential rival from our borders, whilst said potential rival is suffering a massive civil war, whilst using the war to increase relations with a potential rival/potential ally nation on our borders. It also means that the Forluc don't gain total control over the Coltyre territories if they win.
Do not mistake things, the Forluc are going to be attacking whether we help them or not. There's also a strong possibility that they will defeat the Coltyre, in which case they quite possibly double in territory and thus start to equal us in size. They may not be our equal in economy after doing so, but the fact that they use slaves means that they can catch up easier than we can keep pushing ahead. There is a reason slavery was so prominent in this era.
We also will not have improved relations with them by fighting along-side us. Or even 'better', become their ally. Meaning that we'd need to be devoting a lot of effort each turn to either keeping/improving diplomatic relations with them, or building up our military for the war that would happen between us.
The discord cabal had largely discounted the Forluc to win due to lack of cavalry compared to semi-settled Boarfolk nomads.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Okay, first off: the discord cabal is a stupid meme that needs to die.
Second: It's true. The Coltyre Confederation's true military strength is and pretty much always has been their direboar cavalry tribes, of which most of the survivors are completely intact and ready to fuck up any standing infantry in open battle, plus a lot of nomad tribes they can attract by saying "you'll live like you always have, except way the fuck richer and fatter and more trophies". It will be a costly victory if the alliance of the two nations wins at all.
- Location
- Australia
I said "when our ally is a slaver state" because helping them in war would've been fine if they weren't, because then it'd be helping remove slavery from the world. The underlying reason would still be politics, but the legitimate positive ideology involved would prevent our own civilisation's moral code from deteriorating.
Since both are slaver states, however, it's just war for politics and without proper justification. Introducing that as something that's acceptable in our civilisation is not good for its development.
Our civilisation's culture should emphasise war as a tool of last resort when all else fails, a necessary or inevitable thing that should be prepared for, but not sought out for material gain. Not only will it prevent our civilisation from encouraging and perpetrating bad behaviour, but it will make our neighbours less warlike too; we have a legacy that spreads our culture, our religion is a proselytising one, and we've developed missionaries. By engaging in peace, our religion will glorify peace, and as our religion spreads to other civilisations, the land in general will become more peaceful, which is good for everyone, including us. A war to remove a civilisation that's done us no ill is short-sighted and damaging in the long term.
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[X][Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Accept it with a more permanent alliance between the Arthwyd and the Forluc. (+1 Diplo)
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Accept it with a more permanent alliance between the Arthwyd and the Forluc. (+1 Diplo)
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
… @Oshha Okay, can you chip in with the military's view on these thoughts? That there's no way for an infantry army to defeat the Dire-boar cavalry? Because I think that this is strongly influencing the vote, and I have afeeling that people are making a lot of assumptions about how weak infantry armies are here, and how overpowered the direboar cavalry is.
Also, what are the reasons our government would use for going to war, and what would they use for staying out of it? Is the staying out just a case of 'Busy with what we have, focus on that first'?
And you've said that the Coltyre boar-tribe took casualties in the uprisings. But that we don't know just how bad it was. Can you give an estimate on what the range of losses are likely to be? Because it looks like some people think that the Coltyre Boar Tribe's have only lost 10% of their military at absolute worst sort of thing...
Why do you think we are making assumptions? The thing is, neither of our armies have any large cavalry presence to contest boarfolks on the battlefield.
Maybe they took a lot of casualties, maybe they didn't. We don't know enough to definitely say we have a chance of winning it.
Moreover, what the situation will look like after the war's end? Do you think the conquered will be grateful to us being their vassals, and stealing any opportunities to own slaves themselves?
Do not let this become another Trelli. Don't make assumptions about winning a war based on adventurism.
[X][Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
[X][Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X][Forluc] Refuse the offer.
[X][Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X][GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
- Location
- 'Straya mate.
I don't think attempting to spread an extreme focus on peace is particularly great, or even a good idea. There are threats beyond our region, and beyond wanting ourselves to be unified, strong, and decently militarised, we also want those in our region who are allies or potential allies to also be that way. We must look beyond peace in our region, and look to securing the continued existence and independence of our region and our culture.
Also on the matter of cavalry, the Forluc demonstrated heavy spearmen against our own cavalry. We've been on the receiving end of anti-cavalry infantry tactics. They exist in our timeframe, and the Forluc have them.
Also on the matter of cavalry, the Forluc demonstrated heavy spearmen against our own cavalry. We've been on the receiving end of anti-cavalry infantry tactics. They exist in our timeframe, and the Forluc have them.
The existence of anti-cavalry tactics has never actually stopped cavalry tactics from being extremely viable. Spearmen are slower than cavalry after all.
- Location
- Australia
We can be militarily strong without becoming warmongerers. Hell, we have been. Forluc were warmongers and we beat them in war. It'll take more effort to be both strong and not an asshole, but it's certainly not impossible, and it's definitely worth aiming for. So long as we develop our religion to emphasise going to war only when it's necessary, that'll be sufficient.
Hell, it could even be beneficial to increase our military strength. For other civilisations, making too many warriors is a risk, because they can become hard to control and will do their own thing, quite potentially even wrecking their own civilisation for their own personal benefit. But we have sacred warriors, who, unlike other types of warriors, follow the civ's religion a lot more fervently. If the religion says not to start unnecessary, unjust fights, we'll be able to raise and maintain a much higher amount of warriors than other civs without it being unsafe.
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- Location
- 'Straya mate.
I don't see why you'd think I thought otherwise. I just meant that anti-cavalry tactics make fighting cavalry viable and not as apocalyptic as seems to be being presented in thread.
- Location
- 'Straya mate.
[X] [Demon] The Urthdysh take it home. (+1 Diplo, Free Magical Knowledge)
[X] [Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X] [Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X] [Forluc] Refuse the offer.
If we want to learn more about it, we probably need to stockpile it. We may as well make a start now.
[X] [GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
[X] [GA] Unlock the Palace Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[X] [GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[X] [Metal] Leave it in storage.
[X] [Cadlon] Isoldyn (Female, Excellent Admin)
[X] [Forluc] Refuse the offer.
If we want to learn more about it, we probably need to stockpile it. We may as well make a start now.
[X] [GA] Unlock the Grand Theatre Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -2 Temp Culture)
[X] [GA] Unlock the Palace Megaproject. (-2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
[X] [GA] Unlock the Aqueduct Megaproject. (-2 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture)
- Allows us to improve our permanent culture stat, and has really nice narrative effects on our civilization.
- While it is partially a symbol of opulence and royal power, its upside is that it probably allows us to run the bureaucracy more efficiently / effectively.
- Probably allows the first "true city", which will provide nice bonuses to a lot of things, as well as really neat narrative effects for being one of the first, if not the first, true city and aqueduct builder. The prestige of Greenbay would be unmatched.
- Also our temp. mystic and temp. culture is pretty high now, so we probably want to spend some of it.