Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
Ah, there's the rub of it. I am not explicitly ignoring the fact. I am deliberately ignoring it, putting it utterly bluntly. Symbols are meant to not be nuanced, not at first glance. Ideals cannot be upheld entirely all the time. Let the matter of this division between monarchist sentiments be bygones. Instead, focus on the future. Of an undivided pantheon, working for the betterment of all of their adherents. Of the People standing together, Arthwydish with Merntirian with Maradyshian hand in hand.

But they can't be bygones, goddess had given us a warning and ignoring is the same as not heeding her words, it is like calling for mistakes of the past to come back to hunt us but this time with harsher consequences.

We cannot have the future based on lies and deception, we can say pantheon is undivided but in reality it is divided. We cannot solve a problem by pretending that it doesn't exist and we must take this lesson to our heart.
Our children must know what we did was wrong and it is on us to leave them a guidelines to make their life's better for them and other future generations, if current matters are left unattended we will not be able to stand hand by hand there will be others that may seek to put themselves and their descendants above the rest wich will ultimately led us to ruin.
 
Ah, but that doesn't deny the fact that doing this will curtail the power of the Pantheon as a whole and heavily strengthen Arthryn as a result, especially with how utterly terrified the People (all three) are.

Still, it makes me less against the veneration of Arthryn first and foremost....but the slippery slope remains. I'd rather not take chances with it.

That is true (edit: by this, I mean it is potential possibility not that it will happen). I just wanted to make it clear that things wouldn't get far as you feared they might to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings.
 
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With no intent to disparage Arthryn's more consistent Blessing, the greatest asset in the Epic Age is the fact that we're able to utilize the sheer precision All-Seerest granted us against Vervov. And considering the fact that we haven't even so much as touch "Study Magic" (we really should do one, all these wonder building is really not great), who knows what sort of blessing the Goddesses would grant us.

And what sort of blessings could be lost, when the Daughters are demoted to Angels, instead?
But who is to say it will be lost? There are countless shrines depicting them as goddesses and QM did say that it won't get that far as you are saying it will.

But there is far greater chance of our mistakes repeating ourselves. Do you ask yourself what the consequences of that will be from loss of our blessing to impact on our society as a whole?
 
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Meanwhile, being imprisoned in a stone statue for a decade is basically the equivalent of being grounded for a week for a deities like Wyrn and Evalyn

And then you wonder why people think that Arthryn isn't punishing anyone hard enough?

They will never be First True Temple. They will never be Temples hosting the petrified statue of a Hero past, who despite all her follies, still responsible for the unification of the Peoples. They will never be Temple that venerated Arthryn solely....nor will they match the significance of the Statue of Arthwyd up in Merntir lands.

It's not a Temple that venerates Arthryn solely. It's only the central message. Even if people pick the Teacher aspect, the others will still be present.
 
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And then you wonder why people think that Arthryn isn't punishing anyone?

At this point, I need some people don't understand that it is possible to be gentle whilst punishing someone and frankly, if someone doesm't grasp that fact, then the problem is with them.

You don't need to go for maximum possible punishment every time.

To be blunt, anyone who thinks that Arthryn hasn't punished anyone is blatantly ignoring the facts or trying to be some kind of edgelord.
 
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At this point, I need some people don't understand that it is possible to be gentle whilst punishing someone and frankly, if someone doesm't grasp that fact, then the problem is with them.

You don't need to go for maximum possible punishment every time.

You don't need to go for maximum possible punishment (lame strawman), but you do need to go for proportionate punishment. If you think the crime is bad enough to result in instant execution, you shouldn't let the accomplices get away with a slap on the wrist.

Heck, if anything, the punishment for Godesses should be greater than that for Bronwyn. Abusing divine power to further your own goals in direct violation of a supreme commandment is just a bit worse than only abusing your leadership position.

Great power and great responsibility and all that..
 
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@Oshha is it possible for Merthyr to choose their own leader just like Arthwyd, i mean Maradysh did it and Arthwyd did it to and Merthyr are a society that puts a lot emphasis on family and are somewhat still doing it.
As long as they believe that it is for the good of greater whole Arthryn shouldn't interfere.
 
You don't need to go for maximum possible punishment, but you do need to go for proportionate punishment. If you think the crime is bad enough to result in instant execution, you shouldn't let the accomplices get away with a slap on the wrist.

And that is a different thing to not getting punished. It is one thing to claim that getting a fine is an insufficient punishment and it is another to claim that the person got off without any punishment. It might be insufficient or not proportionate to the crime, but it is a still a punishment.

If you want to think that Arthryn didn't sufficiently punish those involved and/or should have held more people accountable, then that is fine. It is your opinion and it is different to one of the characters in the quest. Arthryn feels that she has proportionate punished those responsible for committing wrongdoing and it is perfectly within the rights of the players to disagree with her on that.

But at the end of the day, Arthryn did punish the people she thought did wrong for the things she considered to be crimes in what she thought was appropriate punishments that were proportionate to their wrongdoings. Players may disagree with her opinion on how well the situation was handled and they are within their rights to do so.
 
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@Oshha is it possible for Merthyr to choose their own leader just like Arthwyd, i mean Maradysh did it and Arthwyd did it to and Merthyr are a society that puts a lot emphasis on family and are somewhat still doing it.
As long as they believe that it is for the good of greater whole Arthryn shouldn't interfere.

No. The Merntir consider themselves part of the People and therefore answer to the Cadlon of the People. The Maradysh declared their own Cadlon because they didn't consider themselves part of the People and neither did the People.

Both the Merntir and the Arthwyd consider the Cadlon of the People to be their leader because both cultures consider themselves to be the People.
 
And that is a different thing to not getting punished.

Given that the vast majority of the complaints were about people not being punished effectively or hard enough, this sub-argument is kind of pointless? I mean, sure you win the edge case argument, but it's not representative of the broader discussion.


Anyway, back to the current discussion. We have a bit of an issue with voting fragmentation.
2/3 of the people are in favor of a solution which rebukes the previous error. Either by dedicating the Temple to the Folly itself, or by emphatizing the teachings that thought the error is wrong.

However, because the votes are split between the two, the third option is very close.
 
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No. The Merntir consider themselves part of the People and therefore answer to the Cadlon of the People. The Maradysh declared their own Cadlon because they didn't consider themselves part of the People and neither did the People.

Both the Merntir and the Arthwyd consider the Cadlon of the People to be their leader because both cultures consider themselves to be the People.

I was thinking more in terms of management, they still are vassals of the people (are members of the people ) but they have one leader in charge of them just like people have one leader leading them.

If system is working in one place it is obvious that it should work in other places as well.
 
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I was thinking more in terms of management, they still are vassals of the people (are members of the people ) but they have one leader in charge of them just like people have one leader leading them.

I think that would require reforming the government into a dual monarchy or some other more decentralized governmental system.77

Actually, there's bit of narrative/mechanics dissonance here. For the purpose of the mechanics, the vassals are considered self-governing. For the purpose of the narrative, they're not.
 
I think that would require reforming the government into a dual monarchy or some other more decentralized governmental system.77

Actually, there's bit of narrative/mechanics dissonance here. For the purpose of the mechanics, the vassals are considered self-governing. For the purpose of the narrative, they're not.

Well more of feudal type government , one family being subverted to another.
I don't really see the problem with it because if Arthwyd that weren't so family based were willing to take it it would be natural for Merthyr to do it to, goddess doesn't have a problem with it after all and it does ensure that they are led by most skilled people.
It is kinda narrative thing to do for them, either that or become part of people fully because we saw that until their sudden fear of absorption they were displeased with their priests and had thought that Arthwyd would do a better job.
 
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[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity

Because I don't want to deal with forgotten gods, yet.
Edit: Right, sorry. Didn't bother to read through that bit, apparently.
Still voting for this, as I want to see where it goes.
 
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Given that the vast majority of the complaints were about people not being punished effectively or hard enough, this sub-argument is kind of pointless? I mean, sure you win the edge case argument, but it's not representative of the broader discussion.

I don't mind people having a different opinion on the matter to Arthryn. I just want people to be clear on what Arthryn considered to be the wrongdoers and why she was punishing them and not anyone else. If people disagree with how she handled things, sure, they can do that. Voters allowed to disagree with a character's actions and opinions.

To be blunt, I don't care if people think Arthryn should have been harsher or punished more people or should have counted more things as being crimes. I don't care if posters think that she is too soft or gentle though I find it amusing given my background knowledge regarding Arthryn.

I just want people to understand what Arthryn did and her thought processes behind her actions so they can criticise those and not whatever incorrect conclusions they came to about the situation. People can hold their own opinions and disagree with the characters of the quest, but I want them to do so using the facts of the situation.

I will state for a fact that none of the characters share all of my views nor do I approve of all their actions. Arthryn has certainly done things that I personally consider wrong and disapprove of.

I was thinking more in terms of management, they still are vassals of the people (are members of the people ) but they have one leader in charge of them just like people have one leader leading them.

That would depends on what choices are chosen in the future.

Actually, there's bit of narrative/mechanics dissonance here. For the purpose of the mechanics, the vassals are considered self-governing. For the purpose of the narrative, they're not.

They are self-governing, but they also consider themselves part of a greater whole. Use the British dominions as an example. The Dominions were self-governing, but they were still part of the British Empire and they ultimately considered the Queen to be their head of state even through they weren't being directly ruled over by the government in London.

There are still a lot of differences between the situations with the Dominions and the Merntir, but that should hopefully give you an idea of how things are working.
 
They are self-governing, but they also consider themselves part of a greater whole. Use the British dominions as an example. The Dominions were self-governing, but they were still part of the British Empire and they ultimately considered the Queen to be their head of state even through they weren't being directly ruled over by the government in London.

There are still a lot of differences between the situations with the Dominions and the Merntir, but that should hopefully give you an idea of how things are working.

Yeah, but thing is our government system is a hereditary monarchy with a strong centralization of power in the King/Queen. Meanwhile, the Dominions used the queen as a head of state, in a more symbolical fashion rather than a ruling fashion. By not putting granting the head of state power, they ensure separation.

Do the Merntir get their own separate and different form of government where the King/Queen is symbolic? Because if so, I want to steal it.
 
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You know, it strikes me that, right now, we have a golden opportunity to honour the Deity that has done the most for us. The one that actually gave us the Born Equal as an important value, the one who gave us the our very Goddesses themselves!

[X] Wyrn
-[X] The Storyteller

Yes, let us devote this temple to the greatest one of us! Let us devote it to Wyrn, She Who Spun the Legends, the Mistress of Memetics, the Harbringer and Ender of Equality, the Bringer of Catgirls*, The Shaper of Gods! With her at the helm we shall know true prosperity!
*Not to be confused with Evalyn, Goddess of Catgirls and Ymarn, the Bringer of Cats

[X] Bronwyn's Folly
Also this because it is my favourite amongst the votes that has a chance of winning.
 
Yeah, but thing is our government system is a hereditary monarchy with a strong centralization of power in the King/Queen. Meanwhile, the Dominions used the queen as a head of state, in a more symbolical fashion rather than a ruling fashion.

Do the Merntir get their own seperate and different form of governement?

As I said, there are differences between the situation. The Merntir have their own local government in the form of the theocracy that you used to have, but that government answers to the Cadlon.
 
You know, it strikes me that, right now, we have a golden opportunity to honour the Deity that has done the most for us. The one that actually gave us the Born Equal as an important value, the one who gave us the our very Goddesses themselves!

[X] Wyrn
-[X] The Storyteller

Yes, let us devote this temple to the greatest one of us! Let us devote it to Wyrn, She Who Spun the Legends, the Mistress of Memetics, the Harbringer and Ender of Equality, the Bringer of Catgirls*, The Shaper of Gods! With her at the helm we shall know true prosperity!
*Not to be confused with Evalyn, Goddess of Catgirls and Ymarn, the Bringer of Cats

[X] Bronwyn's Folly
Also this because it is my favourite amongst the votes that has a chance of winning.

Maybe dedicating that temple to Bronwyns greatness, we all know that she deserves to become a goddess of love and beauty.
 
@Oshha
The Arthryn mess I think is due to differing perspectives.
OOC:
The people most vocal about it in the thread were the ones who had the most problems with either Monarchy or Wyrn in general as her role of Story Shaper. To either of those perspectives, what was done is heinous.

IC:
From Arthryn's perspective, the problem wasn't just that Monarchy went against Born Equal. Arthryn considered the Communal Mandate more important, and as such the only sin being punished was in putting the benefit of their close kin above the benefit of the community, because the community used their right to decide equally to decide to no longer be equal.

From Wyrn's perspective, she still believes she did the right thing, but using the wrong tool, because the Divine Royal Blood was demonstrably better at dealing with crisis afflicting the People, but enabling Bronwyn's selfish intent was bad.

From Bronwyn's perspective, she did wrong in doing this for the benefit of her family, and she acknowledges that. She does not consider the result wrong(as evidently Arthyrn let the royal line continue), but the motive was impure.

From the People's perspective, Arthryn was angry about unfair behavior and punished the offending gods and Cadion. However, as she allowed the Divine Blood blessing to be granted to the royal family, theres nothing actually wrong with it. This overall leaves the People:
-Terrified of divine smiting
-Believing that the Royal Family was the right thing to do, since its still there.
-Believing that being selfish gets you smited.
-Believing, as a result of the above three elements, that the royal family must rule through Arthryn's express blessing and thus the Temple must be built right the fuck now.
-Believing that Arthryn's teachings had gone to the side in recent times, with all the war and heroes and barbarians and that they should reinforce traditional values(with the minor problem that due to Stone Age connectivity, theres like 5 different sets of traditional values)

Is this a reasonably proximate summary?
 
[X] Arthryn
-[X] The Teacher

Removed my Bronwyn approval, she's not that important to base he central temple around her.
Adhoc vote count started by Parzival95 on Mar 1, 2019 at 5:39 AM, finished with 7494 posts and 50 votes.
 
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Maybe dedicating that temple to Bronwyns greatness, we all know that she deserves to become a goddess of love and beauty.
Of course not, the true Goddess of Love is Wyrn, She Who Makes the Ships Meet In The Night. Bronwyn is obviously more suited as the Goddess of Familial Love, as she openly defied the mightiest being in all worlds for the sake of her children and her children's children.

Beauty is spot on though, she deserves that one.
 
Of course not, the true Goddess of Love is Wyrn, She Who Makes the Ships Meet In The Night. Bronwyn is obviously more suited as the Goddess of Familial Love, as she openly defied the mightiest being in all worlds for the sake of her children and her children's children.

Beauty is spot on though, she deserves that one.
Yup, while i don't personally love how this was handled i do love Bronwyn as a character and i think that she does deserve fair chance at divinity.

@Oshha is becoming a goddess a possibility for her?
 
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