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Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%

  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%
  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
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[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity
and using
[X] Bronwyn's Folly
as a method of explaining why it's important.
 
UlseDovThur said:
[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity
[] Bronwyn's Folly

I would prefer Unity wins but I can understand the logic in the Folly option as well. Ultimately I think they both get across the same message, "don't be selfish tools and value the community", so I'm ok with either, but I think Unity does it better.

Remember, this is our first Megaproject to the Pantheon, do you really want it to be about something like the negativity of the Folly or something positive and uplifting like Unity? This thing will probably become the center of the Pantheons Worship so I would rather it not be about Bronwyns fuck up.
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If people wanted it to be about something else, then they shouldn't have left the problem to fester. We had plenty of opportunities to counter the series of decisions that led to Brenwyn's mistake, and we missed all of them.

Not acting now will just make the situation even harder to deal with in the future.

Also, I'm pretty sure Unity is more about divine unity than communal ties.
 
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[x] Arthryn
-[x] The Teacher
Adhoc vote count started by sam5447 on Feb 28, 2019 at 8:37 PM, finished with 33 posts and 23 votes.
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065tdsa said:
No it isn't. Equality means equality, it doesn't mean you can't compete. If anything the idea all start from the same point encourages competition and disagreements because nobody's believed to be assured victory.
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aaah right equality of outcome versus opportunity. I was thinking unity through equality though. Am I wrong in that?
 
[X] Arthryn
-[X] The Teacher

[X] Bronwyn's Folly

I'm fine with either of these. Both of them will probably upgrade the 'born equal' trait into something capable of keeping up with the rest of the civilization's mores.
 
[X] Arthryn
-[X] The Teacher

[X] Bronwyn's Folly

One of these, buy I'm also worried Wyrn will twist it so future generations remember Bronwyns gift, change the story so she was rewarded and the temple has her in a place of honor.
 
Oshha said:
Merntir = [MAIN] Grand Statue
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I hope they put this on the coast. Makes a spanking lighthouse.
Oshha said:
While more recently converted, the Maradysh just had their Cadlon smote by a divine being and went all out constructing shrines to Arthryn and her Daughters. By the time that the Arthwyd are halfway through constructing the temple, the Maradysh have managed to get proper shrines to Arthryn set up in half of their villages.
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#Motivated
Oshha said:
The Merntir also begin their own major project to appease Arthryn. While the Arthwyd had asked the Merntir to help with the construction of the temple, under the sway of Vynad and her followers, they refused to assist a grand work of the Arthwyd.

The Merntir have instead decided to construct their own project to appease Arthryn, a giant stone statue of the goddess that overlooks the mouth of North River.
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Loyalty eroding due to diverging values. Good position to be a landmark though
Important question: Did it wind up a giant catgirl or was Wyrn unable to mess with it due to being trapped?
Oshha said:
"And what about the size of the statues?" asks another of their number, "We cannot make them as large as one the Merntir are making, but perhaps we should make them larger than the norm."

"Speaking of the Merntir, I heard that they are up to the point of making Arthryn's huge mountains," says one of the priests, giving his neighbour nudge with his elbow.

"That just should how little the Merntir know of the goddess," says one of the priestess as she rolls her eyes at the antics of her fellows, "Everyone knows that the size of Arthryn's chest and her breasts are not the size of mountains. Anyone who claims that either hasn't seen a mountain or hasn't seen Arthryn's breasts and by the Ancient, everyone here has personally seen the goddess and the size of her breasts."

"I don't know, they were pretty large," mutters one of the women.

"All of her was large!" exclaims one of the men, "That doesn't mean that her chest was especially large."

"But doesn't Ymarn have large breasts?" asks another of them, "I am certain of that and we all know that she was blessed with the same body as Arthryn right? So if Ymarn had large breasts, then so did Arthryn."

"Doesn't that mean that Wyrn also has large breasts?" asks the priest who first brought up Arthryn's 'huge mountains', "She has the same beauty as her mother."

"So would Evalyn," mutters another priestess, "Yes, yes she would. Like Ymarn, the Boarslayer as blessed with a body like Arthryn's."

"You might as well say the All-Seeress also has large breasts if you are going to claim that the rest of the goddesses have them," scoffs the one of them that has personally seen a mountain, "Stop talking about the divine bosoms of the goddesses and get back on track."

"Say, if the goddesses all have large breasts, could they-" starts one of the priests.

"Nobody cares about the cat girls Darcyn you dirty-minded Evalynite!" snaps another of the priests.
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Wyrn: "Still going as keikaku"

So what lessons does each one encode?

[] Bronwyn's Folly

Focuses on Arthryn's punishing the people for transgressing.
Note that the context WILL be forgotten in a few generations, and you'd have Arthryn shaped to be a more harsh goddess this way.

[] Arthryn

Note that single deity Temples are prone to factionalization down the road. See Ancient Egypt and Greece. There are practical concerns if Wyrn has her own temple and Arthyrn another one in different places and their priests compete for resources.
It becomes unclear who is the pantheon head. Odin wasn't the original Norse chief god, but the relative status got muddle and the war god took the crown

-[] The Mother

Emphasis on how she's the Great Mother, and focuses on how she cares for the People.
Possible boost to the Divine Blood thing, as they're all her Daughters and thus everyone is Born Equal because they are all born of the Great Mother.

-[] The Leader

"Well, Arthryn is sort of a King herself isn't it?"

-[] The Teacher

This is the Born Equal emphasis. Remember what she taught the people. Everyone should have a chance.

[] Arthryn and her Daughters

This incidentally also is the best way to ensure that Arthryn remains pantheon head if she has the biggest statue in the most prominent place.
You might google up some of the bigger chinese temples. Major deities get a statue on the main central altar, surrounded by figurines of their subordinates(who do more specific tasks)

-[] Unity

This probably would be working towards the reinforcing Communal Mandate trait I think.

-[] Family

Same as the Mother, but with more focus on how Divine Blood is ultimately Arthyrn's. I.e. Lock in Divine Royal Family.

-[] Pantheon

Traditionalist. Keep them as a Pantheon. Some are adopted, some are born to the family, but all have a role. Emphasis on social equality?

[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity

I know a lot of people want to remember the sin here.
But I don't think immortalizing Arthryn's major divine deed being SMITING is going to be good down the road!
 
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Hrm...Tough choices.

[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity

Though it may not go directly against divine blood, I feel like it would be rude to leave out the other gods, especially since the big G is getting her own friggen giant statue from our vassal if I read the post right.
 
You know, everyone is gonna think cat girls are being punished and would be exorcised for it. Because only those with cat ears seem to have angered the goddess in some way. As such we are looking at a very possible race war in the future.
 
veekie said:
Focuses on Arthryn's punishing the people for transgressing.
Note that the context WILL be forgotten in a few generations, and you'd have Arthryn shaped to be a more harsh goddess this way.
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I'm not sure I completely agree with this. The 'lesson' is always going to be told, we're just picking the emphasis. This choice is focusing on Bronwyn and what she did, as opposed to Arthryn being the big thing. I also disagree with how much the story will be diluted - that seems really extreme and unlikely for a society as centralized as ours.

As for upgrading the Community Mandate again, I thought the entire reason we're dealing with this is because of Born Equal lagging behind? Shouldn't we try to advance it so it better meshes with our society?
 
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[X] Arthryn and her Daughters
-[X] Unity
Arthryn will be remembered courtesy of the giant statue of her being built up north. But uniting the family schism seems like a very prudent move instead of letting the goddesses bicker amongst themselves.
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
I'm not sure I completely agree with this. The 'lesson' is always going to be told, we're just picking the emphasis. This choice is focusing on Bronwyn and what she did, as opposed to Arthryn being the big thing. I also disagree with how much the story will be diluted - that seems really extreme and unlikely for a society as centralized as ours.

As for upgrading the Community Mandate again, I thought the entire reason we're dealing with this is because of Born Equal lagging behind? Shouldn't we try to advance it so it better meshes with our society?
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Born Equal is not lagging behind. Born Equal is opposed to another trait, and we're getting through on doublethink.

Now, lets remember that Wyrn is still in play, she'd oppose anything to erode her Hereditary Monarchy just as Arthryn will oppose anything that erodes her Born Equal and Communal Mandate.
I don't want to make it a head on fight, because Wyrn is PROBABLY going to win that. The easiest path to Divine Royal Family surviving in a case of head on contest is to switch Arthryn to a Queen's Mother role, and remove her dominance, and history says swapping pantheon heads is really easy.
The Egyptians did it multiple times depending on who the Pharoah liked better. The Norse had Odin displace whoever was before him. The Greeks literally had a Titanomachy(lets not do that). The Japanese had Amaterasu take the crown over their creator god.

So lets look at how the traits balance out in trait interactions:
-Born Equal
--Communal Mandate - Supporting. Equality ensures that nobody is left out.
--Sacred Defence - Weakly opposed. Religious warriors are elitist and set aside from the masses.
--Divine Royal Family - Opposed. Contradictory concepts.

-Divine Royal Family
--Born Equal - Opposed. Contradictory concepts.
--Communal Mandate - Supporting. The best leaders is the best for the People.
--Sacred Defense - Supporting. Heroic warleaders are demonstrably the best for protecting the People.


I think you see the problem here if you try to make it a head on contest.
Hence, my idea is, we go after Communal Mandate. Once upgraded, it can serve to bridge the doublethink, by making the Good Of The Community as the primary virtue in society, the Royal Family is restricted in what they can do.

I mean, think about the context of the value evolution.
What did people learn about Born Equal lately? That the divinely blessed are definitely more equal than the unblessed.
What did people learn about Commnual Mandate lately? that Arthyrn smote their Cadion for putting the good of her family above the good of the People.

What kind of evolution comes out?
 
@veekie - My interpretation was less that the upgrade would just double down on Equality, but update it so that it fits in with the new and changed culture of the people. Make everything more compatible, essentially, while having enough strength so that it isn't de-emphasized and neglected in favor of our more elitist values.

Basically, I envision it transforming into a more meritocratic ideal, that anyone has the potential to be great, instead of insisting that everyone is equal despite obvious evidence to the contrary.
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
@veekie - My interpretation was less that the upgrade would just double down on Equality, but update it so that it fits in with the new and changed culture of the people. Make everything more compatible, essentially, while having enough strength so that it isn't de-emphasized and neglected in favor of our more elitist values.

Basically, I envision it transforming into a more meritocratic ideal, that anyone has the potential to be great, instead of insisting that everyone is equal despite obvious evidence to the contrary.
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Meritocratic does not necessarily means egalitarianism.
 
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