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What is Fate? (Percy Jackson and the Olympians Quest)

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Sena Kumo said:
The only reason it´s "bordeline nonsensical" it´s because it was a weapon mostly used by peasants and soldiers didn´t bothered learning how to use it because spears were good enough, so it didn´t became popular and there isn´t a manual to teach Sam.
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Which is my point. I don't mean nonsensical like Sam is wielding a giant paintbrush or a rock tied to a rope. I meant it in the context that Sam is going to be in increasing amounts of danger (more than he would have been without the prophecy - which would still be substantial) so he needs to a weapon that can be taught to proficiency in a relatively small amount of time.

War scythe is nonsensical because not only does it not have a teacher available (making it more difficult to learn to proficiency in a suitable time frame), but it is just plain harder to learn than a sword or spear.

So now that we have the chance, Sam should switch to learning a weapon that both has multiple capable teachers available and is generally easier to pick up. In the end, Sam has only been learning to use the war scythe for a single summer. And even then, only in passing. That really isn't a lot to be "giving up" especially since some of it will be transferring over. Best to switch now and lose (a portion of) a summer's worth of half-hearted learning, than stick with it and continue on the more difficult path.
 
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[X][Quest!] Go! You go with Blossom (and one other person) to "seek springtime's basket"

Lets Do this...Also a question on Omake policy...can they be unrelated to the Greco-Roman Pantheon and be part of another Europian pantheon.

I'm thinking Slavic...Polish Slavic.
 
Go_Magikarp said:
Which is my point. I don't mean nonsensical like Sam is wielding a giant paintbrush or a rock tied to a rope. I meant it in the context that Sam is going to be in increasing amounts of danger (more than he would have been without the prophecy - which would still be substantial) so he needs to a weapon that can be taught to proficiency in a relatively small amount of time.

War scythe is nonsensical because no only does it not have a teacher available (making it more difficult to learn to proficiency in a suitable time frame), but it is just plain harder to learn than a sword or spear.
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I certainly agree with you on this. The problem with the war-scythe is that no one can teach us, but see this on page 1:
Monk Penguin said:
War-Scythe-Wielding - Apprentice 11/15
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We are merely 4 exp away to reach Intermediate, then it is Advanced and lastly Master. The ranks are:

  • Untrained - You are not trained in the skill or ability
  • Apprentice - Your skill or ability is improving, though you could not be considered 'competent'
  • Intermediate - You could be considered 'competent' in this skill
  • Advanced - You have advanced knowledge or techniques. You could probably teach beginners to a certain extent
  • Master - You have mastered the skill or ability. You can teach others if they have the ability to learn.

We are pretty much halfway at war-scythe.

Monk Penguin said:
In addition, training is not the only way to earn EXP Points. Performing feats, completing quests, and other things can give you skill EXP Points and ability EXP Points, which will be listed on your character sheet when you get them. At any safe location, you can spend those points to improve your skills or abilities, depending on what kind of points they are.
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If we manage to make Sam use his war-scythe in the middle of the quest (as long we are guarranteed that it won´t kill us or do something stupid) we might reach Intermediate or be just 1 to 2 exp away from it.
Even if we go and decide to use "easier" weapons what guarantee do we have that we will reach Intermediate or Advanced at a good ammount of time? Chiron and/or Justin? Only as we are at the camp, after that is either school or training on our own.
It´s not that we shouldn´t try other weapons, but dropping the war-scythe right now would be a waste of investment. Time that we invested in learning how to use it, specially when we are close to a breakthrough.
 
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Go_Magikarp said:
Which is my point. I don't mean nonsensical like Sam is wielding a giant paintbrush or a rock tied to a rope. I meant it in the context that Sam is going to be in increasing amounts of danger (more than he would have been without the prophecy - which would still be substantial) so he needs to a weapon that can be taught to proficiency in a relatively small amount of time.

War scythe is nonsensical because not only does it not have a teacher available (making it more difficult to learn to proficiency in a suitable time frame), but it is just plain harder to learn than a sword or spear.

So now that we have the chance, Sam should switch to learning a weapon that both has multiple capable teachers available and is generally easier to pick up. In the end, Sam has only been learning to use the war scythe for a single summer. And even then, only in passing. That really isn't a lot to be "giving up" especially since some of it will be transferring over. Best to switch now and lose (a portion of) a summer's worth of half-hearted learning, than stick with it and continue on the more difficult path.
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So, what I'm getting is that since it's an uncommon weapon, and there are few, if any people, who can teach us how to use it, it should be discarded as useless.
 
Mirror Mage said:
So, what I'm getting is that since it's an uncommon weapon, and there are few, if any people, who can teach us how to use it, it should be discarded as useless.
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Can we compromise on hardened nuts fired from a sling? Sam should not be in meelee. Genius or not, great at magic or not, he's ten.

Weak, fragile, small reach, easily tired, preteen child.
 
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Mirror Mage said:
So, what I'm getting is that since it's an uncommon weapon, and there are few, if any people, who can teach us how to use it, it should be discarded as useless.
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What we need is to spend more practice time with the war scythe, instead of so much on our abilities. Even if we picked up a spear or sword if we spend our votes only on getting better with our powers, we'll never be good with a weapon.
 
Mirror Mage said:
So, what I'm getting is that since it's an uncommon weapon, and there are few, if any people, who can teach us how to use it, it should be discarded as useless.
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More like: "Our legendary teacher and skilled sparing partner/trainer don´t know how to use it so we´re pretty much at our own to learn how to wield it well."
Appirinia said:
What we need is to spend more practice time with the war scythe, instead of so much on our abilities. Even if we picked up a spear or sword if we spend our votes only on getting better with our powers, we'll never be good with a weapon.
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This.
 
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Lab_Accident said:
Can we compromise on hardened nuts fired from a slingshot? Sam should not be in meelee. Genius or not, great at magic or not, he's ten.

Weak, fragile, small reach, easily tired, preteen child.
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I pretty much agree with that. While I do want to learn more with the war scythe, we're pretty squishy as it is right now.
Appirinia said:
What we need is to spend more practice time with the war scythe, instead of so much on our abilities. Even if we picked up a spear or sword if we spend our votes only on getting better with our powers, we'll never be good with a weapon.
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Sena Kumo said:
More like: "Our legendary teacher and skilled sparing partner/trainer don´t know how to use it so we´re pretty much at our own to learn how to wield it well."
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That's what I figured. I personally think it could be a great weapon to use; the lack of a teacher and the Kronos connection are the only downsides.
 
Sena Kumo said:
A war scythe or military scythe is a form of pole weapon with a curving single-edged blade with the cutting edge on the concave side of the blade. Its blade bears some superficial resemblance to that of an agricultural scythe from which it likely evolved, but the war scythe is otherwise unrelated to agricultural tools and is a purpose-built infantry melee weapon. The blade of a war scythe has regularly proportioned flats, a thickness comparable to that of a spear or sword blade, and slightly curves along its edge as it tapers to its point. This is very different from farming scythes, which have very thin and irregularly curved blades, specialised for mowing grass and wheat only, unsuitable as blades for improvised spears or polearms.
The scythe and pitchfork, farming tools, have frequently been used as a weapon by those who could not afford or did not have access to more expensive weapons such as pikes, swords, or later, guns. Scythes and pitchforks were stereotypically carried by angry mobs or gangs of enraged peasants.[2] The process usually involved reforging the blade of a scythe at a 90 degree angle, strengthening the joint between the blade and the shaft with an additional metal pipe or bolts and reinforcing the shaft to better protect it against cuts from enemy blades.[citation needed] At times, instead of a scythe blade, a blade from a hand-operated chaff cutter was used.

War scythes were a popular weapon of choice and opportunity of many peasant uprisings throughout history.

As a pole weapon, the war scythe is characterised by long range and powerful force (due to leverage): there are documented instances where a scythe cut through a metal helmet.[citation needed] They could be used, depending on construction and tactics, to make slashing or stabbing attacks, and with their uncommon appearance and considerable strength could have a psychological impact on an unprepared enemy. However, like most pole weapons, their disadvantages were weight (which could quickly exhaust the user) and slow speed. After the German Peasants' Warduring 1524–1525, a fencing book edited by Paulus Hector Mair described in 1542 techniques how to fence using a scythe.[3]
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Alright, wikipedia isn't actually a source, and the majority of that page has no actual citations. But either way none of that says that soldiers didn't learn it because spears were good enough but rather they used war scythes as improvised spears because they weren't an actual army and thus couldn't get actual weapons. Its unpopular because its an inferior form of weaponry used out of necessity since their weren't resources to make better weapons.
Sena Kumo said:
We are merely 4 exp away to reach Intermediate, then it is Advanced and lastly Master. The ranks are:

  • Untrained - You are not trained in the skill or ability
  • Apprentice - Your skill or ability is improving, though you could not be considered 'competent'
  • Intermediate - You could be considered 'competent' in this skill
  • Advanced - You have advanced knowledge or techniques. You could probably teach beginners to a certain extent
  • Master - You have mastered the skill or ability. You can teach others if they have the ability to learn.

We are pretty much halfway at war-scythe.
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Also we aren't halfway through war scythe we need more exp for higher ranks.
We currently have 21 exp sunk into it out of the 100 needed to master it. So in reality we are 1/5th of the way through.
On top of that if we do not have a trainer who is better than us with our weapon we will only gain 1 exp per training while a tutor can give 2-5. Once we become better than Chiron which would probably be at advanced it would take us 50 training actions to master the damn thing.
 
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Hope we gets some time to do some quick training, we were there just a week and we gained 4 exp in archery. One more week and we will be at intermediate for it.
 
Mirror Mage said:
I pretty much agree with that. While I do want to learn more with the war scythe, we're pretty squishy as it is right now.


That's what I figured. I personally think it could be a great weapon to use; the lack of a teacher and the Kronos connection are the only downsides.
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Our Archery is the 2nd skill I want to raise because of that.

pancakes said:
Also we aren't halfway through war scythe we need more exp for higher ranks.
We currently have 21 exp sunk into it out of the 100 needed to master it. So in reality we are 1/5th of the way through.
On top of that if we do not have a trainer who is better than us with our weapon we will only gain 1 exp per training while a tutor can give 2-5. Once we become better than Chiron which would probably be at advanced it would take us 50 training actions to master the damn thing.
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You have a good point but it´s only 1 exp on our own. If it´s on training with someone else or fighting then:
Monk Penguin said:
You have gained 5 EXP Points in Chlorokinesis, 6 in War-Scythe-Wielding, 4 in Archery, 4 in Parkour/Climbing, 3 in Social, 2 in Greek Mythology, 2 in the Concept of Growth, and 4 in Art.
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Monk Penguin said:
You have gained 5 EXP Points in Chlorokinesis, 4 in War-Scythe-Wielding, 4 in Archery, 6 in Parkour/Climbing, 3 in Social, 2 in Greek Mythology, 2 in the Concept of Growth, and 6 in Art.
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Monk Penguin said:
You have gained 5 EXP Points in Chlorokinesis, 7 in War-Scythe-Wielding, 7 in Archery, 5 in Parkour/Climbing, 5 in Social, 5 in Greek Mythology, 5 in the Concept of Growth, and 2 in Art.
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Monk Penguin said:
Gained 7 EXP points in Chlorokinesis, 10 in the Concept of Growth, 3 in Social, and 2 in War-Scythe wielding, Archery, Parkour, and Art.
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If you want to make a comparison, the ammount of exp we gained at archery is only of 2 points of difference with war-scythe (War scythe WINS) even though one of our half-sisters, who is good enough to challenge Apollo´s children is one of the people teaching us.

Deamon1999 said:
I think it has more to do with the fact Kronos, his father who he hates, uses a scythe.
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...let´s hope Zeus doesn´t notice that...
 
Honestly, I would rather dump the melee weapon all together and focus on plant magic and archery. Sam's Chlorokinesis is just so well suited for battlefield control and long range suppression. From there it makes sense to snipe from afar while they are being held up. Plus, with his sense of the surrounding environment and aforementioned control skill, Sam shouldn't have enemies getting close to him anyway. If they do, something has gone very wrong.

On a different note, something to consider is weapon availability. At any given time, Sam would be the only one with a War Scythe available. What happens if he loses it, is disarmed, and so on. Well, then he's kind of out of luck isn't he? On the other hand, a sword or spear are much much more readily available. It would drastically reduce the chance of him being without a weapon, or reduce the difficulty of finding a weapon. I just don't like putting Sam in a situation where he needs to have this one specific weapon on him (the only one of it's kind around) or else he's screwed.

And I really think that the experience losses from changing would be much easier to make up than people seem to believe. We really haven't put much time into the skill. I get that a quest is coming up, but as I mentioned before, if Sam has to use the scythe, he's kind of screwed anyway. He's nowhere near skilled enough at this point for it to make a difference. Especially since the skill is being utilized through he body of a child.

So sticking with the scythe for a potential short term gain at the cost of being highly ineffective long term doesn't feel worth it to me.
 
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Go_Magikarp said:
Honestly, I would rather dump the melee weapon all together and focus on plant magic and archery. Sam's Chlorokinesis is just so well suited for battlefield control and long range suppression. From there it makes sense to snipe from afar while they are being held up. Plus, with his sense of the surrounding environment and aforementioned control skill, Sam shouldn't have enemies getting close to him anyway. If they do, something has gone very wrong.

On a different note, something to consider is weapon availability. At any given time, Sam would be the only one with a War Scythe available. What happens if he loses it, is disarmed, and so on. Well, then he's kind of out of luck isn't he? On the other hand, a sword or spear are much much more readily available. It would drastically reduce the chance of him being without a weapon, or reduce the difficulty of finding a weapon. I just don't like putting Sam in a situation where he needs to have this one specific weapon on him (the only one of it's kind around) or else he's screwed.

And I really think that the experience losses from changing would be much easier to make up than people seem to believe. We really haven't put much time into the skill. I get that a quest is coming up, but as I mentioned before, if Sam has to use the scythe, he's kind of screwed anyway. He's nowhere near skilled enough at this point for it to make a difference. Especially since the skill is being utilized through he body of a child.

So sticking with the scythe for a potential short term gain at the cost of being highly ineffective long term doesn't feel worth it to me.
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Chiron specifically told us to raise our melee because it's our glaring weakness, and being overspecialized will eventually bite us.
As for weapons availability, we can ask Hephaustus children to make a few or learn the concept of tools to try to make one.
We are 4 exp away in WS and Archery to reach Intermediate. So damm close.
 
[X][Quest!] Go! You go with Blossom (and one other person) to "seek springtime's basket"
-[X] It's cool, Persephone sent me a message this last year. And lots of flowers, just so many. I've just been waiting for the inevitable quest.
 
Go_Magikarp said:
Honestly, I would rather dump the melee weapon all together and focus on plant magic and archery. Sam's Chlorokinesis is just so well suited for battlefield control and long range suppression. From there it makes sense to snipe from afar while they are being held up. Plus, with his sense of the surrounding environment and aforementioned control skill, Sam shouldn't have enemies getting close to him anyway. If they do, something has gone very wrong.

On a different note, something to consider is weapon availability. At any given time, Sam would be the only one with a War Scythe available. What happens if he loses it, is disarmed, and so on. Well, then he's kind of out of luck isn't he? On the other hand, a sword or spear are much much more readily available. It would drastically reduce the chance of him being without a weapon, or reduce the difficulty of finding a weapon. I just don't like putting Sam in a situation where he needs to have this one specific weapon on him (the only one of it's kind around) or else he's screwed.

And I really think that the experience losses from changing would be much easier to make up than people seem to believe. We really haven't put much time into the skill. I get that a quest is coming up, but as I mentioned before, if Sam has to use the scythe, he's kind of screwed anyway. He's nowhere near skilled enough at this point for it to make a difference. Especially since the skill is being utilized through he body of a child.

So sticking with the scythe for a potential short term gain at the cost of being highly ineffective long term doesn't feel worth it to me.
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Sooner or later, though, someone's going to get up close to him in combat, and he'll need a melee weapon to deal with that eventuality. His environment-sensing ability only works with plants around, so if he's stuck on places like an ocean liner or in the arctic, you have a greater risk of people getting in close.

Doesn't mean we should develop an in-your-face fighting style, just that we should cover our bases.

Also, finding another weapon in the heat of battle isn't as easy as it sounds, even if you have a common weapon like a sword. Not saying we shouldn't learn a new weapon—I think learning spear would be really helpful—but I doubt we'll just find another weapon of anything out of nowhere, or that a teammate will be carrying extra weapons around.
 
Fun fact, in a few myths, Demeter is the one who picks up the scythe after Kronos.

Other fun fact, in Percy Jackson's Greek Gods, Percy mentions it too!
 
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