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What is Fate? (Percy Jackson and the Olympians Quest)

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[X][Quest!] Go! You go with Blossom (and one other person) to "seek springtime's basket"

Monk Penguin said:
"Well, the kind of specialized weapon you've got on your hip depends a lot on the skill of the wielder. You work hard during our sessions, but you're no prodigy when it comes to swords or scythes. If Chiron is asking me to train you specifically, I'd guess that he thinks you're going to be in danger soon. Assuming that, you'd be better suited to swapping out for a sword or spear since they're easier to use."
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I think that changing weapons now is not a good idea because though a sword or spear is "easier to use", we are already training to learn the skill and technique needed to effectively wield our war-scythe. And if we are "no prodigy when it comes to swords or scythes" then what is the point of swapping to a sword when we already have made progress with the war-scythe?

Monk Penguin said:
Also, next chapter will be about preparation if you decide to go and if you do decide to switch to a sword or spear, some of your skill will carry over, but not all of it.
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And according to Monk our skill won't completely carry over to our new weapon, so it doesn't seem like the smartest idea to change weapons right before going on a quest where we need all the skill we can get.

I think that the war-scythe just has a more difficult learning curve but will be worth it if we stick through the initial training phase. And who's to say we can't train with other weapons on the side as time allows
 
Tjakari said:
Maybe if we send Demeter a nice sacrifice she'll send us a good weapon.
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If she is the overprotective mother I heard about then yes, that MAY work.

Edit: If the wannabe vampire incident is to be used as a reference, depending on how we fight in Blossom´s quest we MIGHT be able to raise our skill with the war-scythe or archery to intermediate levels. Maybe Chiron and Justin won´t fuss us to change weapons if we are sucessful.
 
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[X][Quest!] Go! You go with Blossom (and one other person) to "seek springtime's basket"
 
[X][Quest!] Go! You go with Blossom (and one other person) to "seek springtime's basket"

I love how this quest has so many ways that it can be interpreted. The real trick with prophecy isn't that you try to avoid something bad happening, but try to force it to be fulfilled in a way that's beneficial to you.

We need to go to the Midwest with it's golden sea of grain, but it could potentially be fulfilled in technicality by going to the Mojave.

and so on and so forth with the rest of the prophecy



as for our weapon of choice, the real ultimatum we were given was "get serious about training the weapon, or switch to something easier".

It's an uncommon weapon, so we're mostly on our own for training it. But we get an advantage if we actually take the time to learn it's tricks. If we don't intend on really learning how to use it, there's no point in having it
 
Are we doing an escort quest?

No for real, do we have to go get Persephone, and then escort her to wherever mom is?

Shouldn't that be around the solstice? I would hope she would have an actual ride, but...
 
Go_Magikarp said:
Chiron throwing some shade at the war scythe. Love it. Please don't stop.



OMG. Yes. The heavens part and the word of God comes down from above.



Preach brother!

[X][Quest!] Go! You go with Blossom (and one other person) to "seek springtime's basket"

Nah, let's allow our crippled best friend to go on a dangerous quest without us. /sarcasm





By the love of all that is holy. Please people. Please. Can we switch. It was such a bad idea to start off with. Everyone somehow got it in their head that it would give Sam some made up bonus because plant-stuff-amirite? (despite Monk never saying anything even close to that). It is an awkward and unwieldly weapon that makes Sam seem like a cringy 10 year old. Not to mention it is, as both Chiron and Justin have now stated, a stupid weapon that will be extra hard to learn well. Not a good thing when we have shoehorned Sam into "prophecy". Sam needs to be competent ASAP. Not flailing around with his hard to learn, edge-lord weapon.

This chapter was pretty much Monk telling us that it was a stupid choice to begin with and giving us an out. That not going for any of the offered weapons and writing in a shiny special weapon is going to make things so much harder for Sam. So please. Please. Can we vote for sword or spear. This is about chosing a weapon to learn non-magically. If we keep thinking about it as, well if we apply our plant magic to the haft while we blah-blah-blah, than we are falling into the same trap as before. Just pick a weapon based on it's own merit. Not on whatever theories on how Sam can utilize his magic on it.
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....there is enough salt here to raze Carthage two times over. The war scythe isn't the weapon of an edge lord, it was more common then a normal sword in a group of infantry. The only reason we haven't developed "oh ma gawds" level competence with the blade yet is because we have focused on our actual powers thus far, meaning that our lack of mastery is due to focus elsewhere not because the weapon is unwieldy in anyway.
 
Okay, on the subject of weapons, some considerations:

-A War Scythe looks nothing like a regular scythe, it's more like an extra-long falx than anything. It's not a bad weapon, but it's also not particularly good. There are other bladed polearms, such as the naginata, who would be much better primarily by virtue of having the blade on the outside.
- A Spear, or it's cousins the Pike and the Javelin, are thrust-based piercing weapons. They are very easy to use (stab with the pointy bit), demand less arm strenght than a sword (but can be heavier and use more stamina, in case of pikes), have better reach, leverage, and can be thrown halfway decently.
- Swords had their origins as side-arms. They demand more skill and strenght than poleweapons, but can conversely be used for more complicated maneuvers. They are primarily short-range weapons.

All that said, Sam would suck at all of them, because he's 9. Attempting to fight monsters with any of them is suicide. The bow is better by virtue of being safer, but unless he's doing magic shenanigans with the arrow shafts, won't really cause more damage.

The ideal weapon for Sam, in this mission, would be a six-shooter revolver pistol with bronze bullets. Guns are not heavy, demand less skill, and pack more of a punch. If bronze bullets are unavailable, experiment with hardening seeds into bullets. That way even if we miss, we can still cast Entangle.

Slingshots with seeds might also be something to consider.
 
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Lab_Accident said:
Okay, on the subject of weapons, some considerations:

-A War Scythe looks nothing like a regular scythe, it's more like an extra-long falx than anything. It's not a bad weapon, but it's also not particularly good. There are other bladed polearms, such as the naginata, who would be much better primarily by virtue of having the blade on the outside.
- A Spear, or it's cousins the Pike and the Javelin, are thrust-based piercing weapons. They are very easy to use (stab with the pointy bit), demand less arm strenght than a sword (but can be heavier and use more stamina, in case of pikes), have better reach, leverage, and can be thrown halfway decently.
- Swords had their origins as side-arms. They demand more skill and strenght than poleweapons, but can conversely be used for more complicated maneuvers. They are primarily short-range weapons.

All that said, Sam would suck at all of them, because he's 9. Attempting to fight monsters with any of them is suicide. The bow is better by virtue of being safer, but unless he's doing magic shenanigans with the arrow shafts, won't really cause more damage.

The ideal weapon for Sam, in this mission, would be a six-shooter revolver pistol with bronze bullets. Guns are not heavy, demand less skill, and pack more of a punch. If bronze bullets are unavailable, experiment with hardening seeds into bullets. That way even if we miss, we can still cast Entangle.

Slingshots with seeds might also be something to consider.
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ALL OF MY YES...except for the gun part, for now. I think we should consider changing weapons only after the quest, though we are almost at intermediate with the war-scythe and bows.
 
Kufufu said:
....there is enough salt here to raze Carthage two times over.
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Because it was such a silly idea from the beginning and people keep defending it. We literally have Monk telling us through Chiron and Justin that it's a poor choice and giving the readers a second chance to switch to a better suited weapon.

In the first place, everyone voted for it because someone thought the harvest connections would synergize somehow and give Sam some kind of bonus. Despite no word of confirmation from Monk (or talk of bonuses at all), people ate the idea up and it snowballed to acceptance.

Not only did that not happen, but it has been said, like four time in-story, that the opposite is true. That the war scythe is such a non-standard, borderline nonsensical choice of a weapon, that learning to use it competently will be extremely difficult. Moreover, it will have to be done without a teacher. So Sam would be stuck learning from himself, a kid with no weapon expertise (either magical or mundane).

Kufufu said:
it was more common then a normal sword in a group of infantry
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I will readily admit I'm no professor of medieval weaponry and military history, but that just doesn't sound true. Like, maybe in some small locales, at some specific points in history, but by and large swords or spears (in some shape or form) have been the main choice for infantry weaponry.

Kufufu said:
The only reason we haven't developed "oh ma gawds" level competence with the blade yet is because we have focused on our actual powers thus far, meaning that our lack of mastery is due to focus elsewhere not because the weapon is unwieldy in anyway.
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Chiron, the guy that literally is a legend for training people in weaponry and fighting, the ultimate expert on this subject, made his thoughts on the War Scythe pretty clear here:

Monk Penguin said:
Justin will teach you how to wield your… weapon in melee combat each morning
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Is that not clear? If it wasn't an unwieldy weapon to use or learn, why would be refer to the war scythe as a.... weapon.

Monk Penguin said:
you'd be better suited to swapping out for a sword or spear since they're easier to use
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Or how about Justin calling it difficult to use? What is another term for difficult to use. Maybe... unwieldy?
 
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Go_Magikarp said:
I will readily admit I'm no professor of medieval weaponry and military history, but that just doesn't sound true. Like, maybe in some small locales, at some specific points in history, but by and large swords or spears (in some shape or form) have been the main choice for infantry weaponry.
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It was used pretty commonly throughout history, but that was mainly by peasants who couldn't afford actual weapons. Overall it was good for a broke ass peasant uprising but pretty shit for anything else
John Waldman's "Hafted Weapons in Medieval and Renaissance Europe"

"The military scythe is perhaps, next to the military fork, the most simple and primitive of the staff weapons, but one which is active over a large time span. It was, like the military fork; used by Polish peasants against the Russians early in the twentieth century. Far from being weak or ineffectual, however, it was a deadly arm. Over the centuries of its use, it was the weapon of the peasant (again like the military fork) and easily converted from the tool by the farmer himself, or by the local blacksmith, to its military equivalent. It was called the kriegssense in German, faux de guerre in French, and falce da guerre in Italian.

Relatively large numbers of these scythes have survived, some appearing so similar to each other as to suggest a serial manufacture by a relatively experienced smith. Impressive quantities are displayed in the castle of Kyburg in Switzerland, and are in storage in the Landesmuseum in Zurich. These weapons, whether or not converted from a tool, also show no attempt at refinement, either of the technique or the finish. Although the hammer marks on the blade are still obvious, some of those suggesting serial manufacture do show punctate or incised patterns of crude decoration (fig. 156). The weapon was questionably useful for thrusting, and was doubtlessly only successful against unarmored soldiers, having only a thin blade without great mass. As it was very sharp, however, the cut inflicted by it into an unarmored part, would have been deep and deadly."
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Considering we are not a broke peasant from a couple centurys ago it really does not make sense to use one instead of a more practical weapon.
 
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Go_Magikarp said:
I will readily admit I'm no professor of medieval weaponry and military history, but that just doesn't sound true. Like, maybe in some small locales, at some specific points in history, but by and large swords or spears (in some shape or form) have been the main choice for infantry weaponry.
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Yeah, let me field this one. Swords are hella expensive to make, so medieval infantry troops (levied peasants) couldn't actually afford them. Spears were much more common, and war scythes were actually somewhat common as improvised weapons, given they are just a regular farm scythe (which are actually mostly straight) attached to a wooden pole.


Edit: ninja'd with a lot more precision.
 
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Go_Magikarp said:
That the war scythe is such a non-standard, borderline nonsensical choice of a weapon
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Not really? By it´s design it can be similarly used like a spear or a polearm, though more focused in slashing because of the blade. The only reason it´s "bordeline nonsensical" it´s because it was a weapon mostly used by peasants and soldiers didn´t bothered learning how to use it because spears were good enough, so it didn´t became popular and there isn´t a manual to teach Sam.

Go_Magikarp said:
Chiron, the guy that literally is a legend for training people in weaponry and fighting, the ultimate expert on this subject, made his thoughts on the War Scythe pretty clear here:
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Maybe because he admitely doesn´t know how to use them and so can´t teach him? It´s not outside of the realm of possibility. It is a non-standart weapon after all.

Go_Magikarp said:
Or how about Justin calling it difficult to use? What is another term for difficult to use. Maybe... unwieldy?
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Same theory as Chiron. It´s difficult to teach someone how to use a weapon that you know jack-shit about how to use it.
 
Sena Kumo said:
Not really? By it´s design it can be similarly used like a spear or a polearm, though more focused in slashing because of the blade. The only reason it´s "bordeline nonsensical" it´s because it was a weapon mostly used by peasants and soldiers didn´t bothered learning how to use it because spears were good enough, so it didn´t became popular and there isn´t a manual to teach Sam.
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Do you have a source for that, because my albeit limited research pretty directly contradicts that.
 
pancakes said:
Do you have a source for that, because my albeit limited research pretty directly contradicts that.
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A war scythe or military scythe is a form of pole weapon with a curving single-edged blade with the cutting edge on the concave side of the blade. Its blade bears some superficial resemblance to that of an agricultural scythe from which it likely evolved, but the war scythe is otherwise unrelated to agricultural tools and is a purpose-built infantry melee weapon. The blade of a war scythe has regularly proportioned flats, a thickness comparable to that of a spear or sword blade, and slightly curves along its edge as it tapers to its point. This is very different from farming scythes, which have very thin and irregularly curved blades, specialised for mowing grass and wheat only, unsuitable as blades for improvised spears or polearms.
The scythe and pitchfork, farming tools, have frequently been used as a weapon by those who could not afford or did not have access to more expensive weapons such as pikes, swords, or later, guns. Scythes and pitchforks were stereotypically carried by angry mobs or gangs of enraged peasants.[2] The process usually involved reforging the blade of a scythe at a 90 degree angle, strengthening the joint between the blade and the shaft with an additional metal pipe or bolts and reinforcing the shaft to better protect it against cuts from enemy blades.[citation needed] At times, instead of a scythe blade, a blade from a hand-operated chaff cutter was used.

War scythes were a popular weapon of choice and opportunity of many peasant uprisings throughout history.

As a pole weapon, the war scythe is characterised by long range and powerful force (due to leverage): there are documented instances where a scythe cut through a metal helmet.[citation needed] They could be used, depending on construction and tactics, to make slashing or stabbing attacks, and with their uncommon appearance and considerable strength could have a psychological impact on an unprepared enemy. However, like most pole weapons, their disadvantages were weight (which could quickly exhaust the user) and slow speed. After the German Peasants' Warduring 1524–1525, a fencing book edited by Paulus Hector Mair described in 1542 techniques how to fence using a scythe.[3]
 
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