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What are controversial gaming opinions you have?

To quote the Tumblr post again:

NV's most rewarding moments are long-term payoffs for making all the right (or wrong) choices, rather than mandatory setpieces that every single player is assaulted with every time they play through the game. Bethesda games shove your face into every twist, plot point, scripted battle, and interesting NPC, because they're terrified you'll miss what little worldbuilding they've done. NV cuts you lose in the world with the only sure goals of confronting Benny, deciding what to do with the platinum chip, and ending up at hoover dam, EVERYTHING else is optional, missable content that you must seek out and piece together. NV is designed like Morrowind, built around the idea that knowledge, stories, and worldbuilding are their own rewards, and aimed at an audience who actually want to learn about the world they're exploring.
 
Hykal94 said:
The main quest does hold up, and it's literally better than Skyrim's, Oblivion's, FO3's and FO4's main quest combined.

Not that those games had much of a main quest. :p
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Then make that case, instead of quoting Tumblr Dude who makes this case-
NV critics are generally completely unaware of all this content (and these are just a handful of examples out of DOZENS) because New Vegas is not a theme park that beats you over the head with the subtleties of its world like Bethesda's flagship games.

NV's most rewarding moments are long-term payoffs for making all the right (or wrong) choices, rather than mandatory setpieces that every single player is assaulted with every time they play through the game.
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Or, in other words, "If you'd just gone out of your way to find the good content, instead of expecting it to be delivered to you like some pleb game, you'd like the game too."
 
Vindictus said:
Then make that case, instead of quoting Tumblr Dude who makes this case-

Or, in other words, "If you'd just gone out of your way to find the good content, instead of expecting it to be delivered to you like some pleb game, you'd like the game too."
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Dude where the hell is this salt coming from? Can you maybe chill?

He quoted a post that had some arguments he agreed with, I wasn't aware that was a signal for people to pry his jaw open and shine flashlights down his throat accusing him of being dishonest because he didn't enumerate every goddamn opinion he has on the subject. Read the thread tags again man.
 
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Jace911 said:
New Vegas' "main quest" does stand on its own merits, but that's like saying the patty of a burger should be an entire meal on its own. New Vegas is all about the fate of the Mojave and the people who live there, so if you don't bother to experience either outside of the bare minimum then no fucking duh you found the game uncompelling--you barely played it.
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So, let me get this straight...

The main quest stands on its own merits, but if you only play the main questline, then 'No duh' you'll find the game uncompelling.

You don't see any contradictions in those two points? None at all?
 
Vindictus said:
So, let me get this straight...

The main quest stands on its own merits, but if you only play the main questline, then 'No duh' you'll find the game uncompelling.

You don't see any contradictions in those two points? None at all?
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"The patty was well cooked, but when I took it out of the burger it seemed bland."

You're giving off pit bull vibes right now, dude. Stop chasing the mailman, go do something relaxing, and when you come back we can try to have a conversation that isn't so inexplicably combative.
 
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Jace911 said:
In other words if you ignore 99% of the game and blitz the ending as swiftly as you possibly can you will be unsatisfied with your purchase.

Weird.
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In addition it's even then way more satisfying than FO3's main quest. Like if NV's main quest by itself is a good burger patty on it's own then FO3's is a bowl of unflavoured, unseasoned low quality cold oatmeal served in water with bits of glass in it. Oh and one nice sultana in there for that Pleasantville VR quest.
 
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Scarlet4 said:
In addition it's even then way more satisfying than FO3's main quest. Like if NV's main quest by itself is a good burger patty on it's own then FO3's is a bowl of unflavoured, unseasoned low quality cold oatmeal served in water with bits of glass in it. Oh and one nice sultana in there for that Pleasantville VR quest.
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Don't forget two criminally underutilized cameos from major Hollywood actors, a plot that was literally yanked out of the recycler after Fallout 2, and an utter inability to imagine the setting advancing past "people living in literal holes in ground" two god damn centuries after the bombs fell.
 
Y'all are missing the point.

I wasn't saying 'FO:NV is a bad game,' or 'FO3 was better,' I was saying 'This is a weird and actually pretty shitty defense.'

'All the other fallout games are garbage' isn't really a good defense either, for that matter.
 
Vindictus said:
Y'all are missing the point.

I wasn't saying 'FO:NV is a bad game,' or 'FO3 was better,' I was saying 'This is a weird and actually pretty shitty defense.'

'All the other fallout games are garbage' isn't really a good defense either, for that matter.
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No, you were responding to a strawman argument of "no guys the lore makes it better" which zero fucking people in the thread have been arguing, and repeatedly insisting on misinterpreting us to make yourself sound smarter.

New Vegas' experience is all about the "peripherary content" because that's 90% of the goddamn game. If you decide not to explore any of that then you really can't bitch at the game for being uncompelling any more than you can bitch at a cook for the fact that you're still hungry when you didn't eat the meal they gave you.

We got the point pretty well, thanks. The only one here who needs to step back and reorient themselves is you.
 
Jace911 said:
No, you were responding to a strawman argument of "no guys the lore makes it better" which zero fucking people in the thread have been arguing, and repeatedly insisting on misinterpreting us to make yourself sound smarter.

New Vegas' experience is all about the "peripherary content" because that's 90% of the goddamn game. If you decide not to explore any of that then you really can't bitch at the game for being uncompelling any more than you can bitch at a cook for the fact that you're still hungry when you didn't eat the meal they gave you.

We got the point pretty well, thanks. The only one here who needs to step back and reorient themselves is you.
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This tangent started when Zeful said he found New Vegas's story and it's characters uninteresting and uncompelling, to which Hykal responded with... A copy-pasted tumblr screed that claims the story is great because you've got to deliberately find the interesting content, with more than a little bit of implicit sneering at people who don't because they 'Aren't interested in learning about the world':

EVERYTHING else is optional, missable content that you must seek out and piece together. NV is designed like Morrowind, built around the idea that knowledge, stories, and worldbuilding are their own rewards, and aimed at an audience who actually want to learn about the world they're exploring. Modern Bethesda fans don't grasp this and expect to ride through the story like a monorail, and are confused when their simple beeline towards the next main quest objective doesn't blow the story open. A lot of players quit after confronting Benny, convinced the game is almost "over" because they've resolved their initial motivation, ignorant of the dense, living WORLD they've just blindly walked past, and unwilling to consider that there could be an underlying central plot bigger than what they're told in the first few minutes of the game (because every bethesda title bar Morrowind more-or-less tells you what your endgame motivation is before you've left the tutorial).
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That's not a response to what Zeful said at all, and it is, in and of itself, a pretty weird argument. Where else have you ever heard someone respond to 'I don't think this story is well written- The motivation was clumsy and ham-handed, and the path that the story and gameplay pushes you down left me hating everything about the setting by the time I finished the game,' with 'The story doesn't tell me anything but the bare minimum about what my character's goals and motivations are, and it's entirely possible to miss basically all of the content if you don't go out of your way to seek it out, therefore it is great at telling it's story'? It's a nonsensical response to something that wasn't said at all.

But apparently pointing out that that response doesn't actually answer any of what was said is deliberately misinterpreting (insert out of place hamburger metaphor here) or something?
 
Jace911 said:
And it would've died there if you hadn't seized onto the pedantic argument of "well that's not exactly 100% the literal argument you quoted" when Hykal and I attempted to clarify following you and Zekul getting your booties bothered and cross examining us.

Christ on a tricycle.
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Ah, okay.

So, next time I'm in a thread where someone makes a specific claim, I can just quote a Tumblr that makes an extended case about how actually XYZ is great without ever addressing the actual claims made by the person I disagree with, and expect nobody to call me on that?

Interesting stance to take, but okay.
 
Opinions about gaming?

Huh, let's see:...


  • Framerate is more important tha graphics. I don't give a shit if it's in a bazillion pixel rendering if it barely trudges to 30 fps.

  • Gameplay is the story of the Game you Play, cutscenes are the non-optional movies a bad game designer forces down your throat to hide their own lack of innovation or talent.

  • Variation = Replayability. Both storywise and mechanic-wise. 'Builds' and 'routes' and 'sidequests' are what makes a game or setting interesting and alive.

  • Lore should always be a collectable you discover by yourself by playing and exploring, not shoved in your face by obnoxious NPCs.

  • There is no currency more valuable to a game designer crafting an immersive story than leaving the player with unanswered questions to resolve.

  • There is no such thing as an Elitist in gaming, only Filthy Casuals that needs to git gud.

  • ...But at the same time; Artificial Difficulty is cancer to gameplay and enjoyment. A player and the gameworld they face should always compete on equal terms. There is no justification for a boss to have inexplainable invulnerable frames in 3d games. Artificial lengthening of a fight was cancer in the NES era, and it is cancer now.


  • Also; Filthy Casuals have no place in gaming critique, as they inevidably make all games they touch worse for everyone, including themselves... Pandering to these... dregs of uncultured idiocy and infantile whining that fester at the lowest bottoms of gaming communities and fanbases tend to ruin good game franchises.

  • Hard is always better. Games are supposed to be challanging, and require investment (time/skill) to make you succeed.
 
Twailaith said:
  • Also; Filthy Casuals have no place in gaming critique, as they inevidably make all games they touch worse for everyone, including themselves... Pandering to these... dregs of uncultured idiocy and infantile whining that fester at the lowest bottoms of gaming communities and fanbases tend to ruin good game franchises.

  • Hard is always better. Games are supposed to be challanging, and require investment (time/skill) to make you succeed.
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Yeah, how dare people enjoy games in different ways than you do ?
 
Twailaith said:
Also; Filthy Casuals have no place in gaming critique, as they inevidably make all games they touch worse for everyone, including themselves... Pandering to these... dregs of uncultured idiocy and infantile whining that fester at the lowest bottoms of gaming communities and fanbases tend to ruin good game franchises.
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You do realize that 'Filthy Casuals' make up about 70-90% of the people who buy games, right? if it was just you and the people your gatekeeping deemed worthy, the games industry would be dead.
Diversity in the industry (in genre, in style, in characters, etc) draws MORE people to gaming, and thus more money, giving companies the capability to spend more and make better games.
 
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Scarlet4 said:
The stuff Hykal linked is a bit hyperbolic about NV. It's not the best game ever written. It's incredibly well written but not the best. It vastly dwarfs FO3 in every way however. Writing and gameplay wise.

Like gameplay wise?

The map is more varied and interesting. There's different climes. There's landmarks that you can navigate by. You can navigate without the map in NV. FO3 is a near flat plain with crap randomly dotted on it. Stuff also makes way more sense.

The enemies? Way more variety and quality in NV.

The weapons? NV vastly surpasses 3 in every way. The variety, the feel, the tactical options, the looks. And the sounds. Goddamn did the gun sounds in 3 suck.

The combat? So much more fun. DT did so much to counter the Bethesda hp sponge nonsense.

The writing? I'm unsure how this is even arguable. FO3's plot is garbage and full of shit that makes no sense and tons of arbitrary shit. NV's core plot, works and has a core theme that makes sense and even then offers you the option to reject it. The only characters in FO3 memorable enough for me to remember are remembered for annoyance or stupidity. NV? Tons of good characters. A few wet farts but even they were better than the cardboard FO3 foisted on us.
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It's not just hyperbolic, it is actively antagonistic to dissenting opinions to a strictly unhealthy point. If part of the main thrust of your argument is that people not sucking your cock are too stupid to understand your point, there's no value in having a discussion at all.

And if you want to try to argue that because you remember NV characters more positively it must be a better game, I will point out that there is not a single character I have met in New Vegas that I remember for anything other than wasting my time. Even the single high-point of my most recent playthrough, running the "Come Fly With Me" quest, had me annoyed with Jason Bright through the latter half of the quest; this was the best I've come across with New Vegas, and I still had to look up both the quest name and the NPC name, because the highest point of a shitty experience is still lower than the lowest point of a good experience, and devoting memory to that shit wasn't worth it. So by your own metric, you have no business arguing my assessment that NV is worse than 3.

As for New Vegas's main quest? If you think it's not full of arbitrary shit you aren't paying any attention. The first town you meet outside of Goodsprings (who's name I'm not going to look up, because I don't give any fucks) is plagued by a Raider problem and the NCR is camped outside barring entrance to the town. Talking to the man in charge, he justifies his lack of action with it being too dangerous to take the town being occupied by roughly 12 dudes. The player, who has just recovered from being shot in the head twice can literally waltz through all of them with ease, because this is supposed to ease you into the game's systems. This is shit writing of many degrees worse than anything showing up in 3, and that includes a magic flashbang that doesn't appear anywhere else because reasons, because unlike that nonsense, which is just lazy writing, this scene shows the NCR as utterly goddamn incompetent, since they couldn't take out a bunch of easy to murder yokels that pose barely any threat to the PC, undermining their credibility as an authority in the Mojave, and something the other Pre-vegas interactions with the player don't solve (the NCR outpost has a mildly helpful commander, who can't spare the men holding caravans hostage to take care of a handful of giant ants, or Boulder City, and fuck Boulder City).

Moving on to combat and weapons, I found the opposite to be true, with DT actually decreasing my weapon pool, since even against super low DT clothes, automatic weapons are worthless, even accounting for the bonuses Hollow Point rounds (which are rare and expensive enough not to be able to provide at a moments notice until you can easily buy components from the GRA content) provide in those situations, and the percentage nature of the bonuses making the non-automatic guns straight upgrades in every case. In every one of my several attempts at playing the game, no matter what build I started with (pistols, Energy weapons, melee) I ended up with a high damage rifle and a big pistol, because everything else was shit at dealing with any kind of armor.

Hykal94 said:
There's no need to be rude about things.

But to explain my position to you and the fellow below:



New Vegas is one of the best RPG made in the last two decades. It sits up there with Witcher 3, Undertale and Trails in the Sky.

It is, hands down, the best Fallout game ever made.

It has excellent lore, amazing characters, and most importantly, freedom. Freedom to influence the politics of the land. Freedom to become a master melee puncher or a savvy talking demolitions expert. Freedom to become a living legend or a true terror.

The dialogue is better. Gameplay mixed amazingly well with stories. The game is a breathing living world. And unlike FO3 or FO4, the quests are actually very complex and varied. With multiple ways to complete the better designed mission and coming up with more results.

You say the game railroads you? It's entirely possible to run to Vegas before hitting level 3. You say the game is barren? No, the locations are actually well hidden.

New Vegas is one of the best games ever made and you do a disservice to yourself not to play it till the end.
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I'm not the one who brought in a third party to argue for me in a manner designed to stifle any attempt at actual discussion. There was every need to be rude, as quoting a tumblr page as your argument not only demonstrates your disagreement, but essentially posits that this is a solved issue and that not only is my opinion "unpopular" (look at what thread this is), but that there are no valid grievances against the game possible, so any problems I have with the game are problems with me and not the game.

And don't fucking insult The Witcher 3 with that comparison, that game is a better written and realized world than NV is, with more wit and intrigue in a single 30 minute sidequest than I've seen in all 30+ hours I've played of New Vegas.

As for the rest of the body of your post; no. There's no freedom, no amazing characters, no options for builds. Any walking off the path of the main quest or early approved sidequests pits the player against monsters that can trivially 2 shot you and will easily eat all of your bullets (with one particular instance actually eating 30 minutes of playtime because the giant radscorpion that jumped me ate the last of my ammo when I was already low, and I had to reload), maybe you can cheese that shit, but that requires significant game knowledge I don't have, and am not interested in looking up; and that's not even going into the comparisons to games that do that shit well, like Super Metroid or Dark Souls, since that massively unfair comparison actually makes New Vegas's world worse at providing freedom, not better. None of the characters I met I have any interest in talking to, and none of them are even half as memorable as Kresselack from Icewind Dale was over a decade ago, and I still reflexively quote him. I've only come across one good sidequest (the aforementioned "Come Fly With Me") and I was still regularly annoyed at how limited my reactions were in the quest, with most everything else being either boring nonsense like most MMO questing or infuriating to the point of just ignoring the quest. To emphasize how little I actually like playing this game, I have 38 hours in game time according to steam, assuming 5 hours went into modding the game to fix broken shit and test them, the longest single playthrough I have is 9 hours long, and I have only just met with House. So I have roughly 24 hours of playing through the opening of the game, getting frustrated, and restarting.

So saying I'm doing myself a disservice by not playing through the end is like saying a near-death experience is a great thing, so I need to stop being a pussy and drink the kool-aid; it's certainly not doing your side of the argument any favors.
 
Twailaith said:
Opinions about gaming?
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Unpopular opinions, not things a majority of people believe, like 'frame rates are important' or common elitist positions like 'casual gamers suck'.

On that note I will add to the unpopular opinion that New Vegas wasn't that hot, and calling it the best Fallout is a little goofy.

I also think FFXIII was a strong story that was well told.
 
The best Grand Theft Auto game was probably San Andreas, though I admit I have not played V long enough to form a proper opinion.
 
Night said:
The best Grand Theft Auto game was probably San Andreas, though I admit I have not played V long enough to form a proper opinion.
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On that note, I think IV is the best GTA, because it's the only one that really understood the cycle of criminality. I particularly don't like V because apart from its hamfisted "satire" it just has guys into crime for fun - which would be fine if it was a Saint's Row cartoon, but it's a photorealistic drama that wants to be taken seriously. It's one of those midlife crisis films, where the solution is murdering hundreds of people, and there isn't a hint of anything deeper.
 
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