- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Controversial gaming opinion: video games are good.
What are controversial gaming opinions you have?
Look, you can't say stuff like what you said to me and not expect me to take it personally. Because quite frankly that came across like a very thinly veiled accusation of some pretty vile stuff. So honestly, I don't feel bad about how I reacted.
But, in the interest of keeping this as civil as it can be I'm going to accept you saying you didn't mean to imply anything in particular and leave it at that.
Other than that, I don't think anyone here, certainly not me, is saying that there isn't some pretty gross stuff showing up in fiction. Or that people don't often say really stupid things about that. Like, you brought up Nurgle, for me it'd be people unironically stanning for the Sith or the Empire from Star Wars. It's fine to think they're cool. It makes me do a double take if you genuinely try to tell me they're the good guys. You like them as fictional characters? Cool, awesome! You think they actually have a point? Uuuhhhhhh....
Similarly, there's plenty of fiction with sexual content that, if acted out in reality would be not only illegal but, far more importantly, highly unethical, harmful, traumatising etc. And yes, absolutely, if someone tried to tell me that no, actually all that stuff is cool and I'm just being a prude then they can fuck off. But if someone, for whatever reason, simply enjoys the fantasy, enjoys it as a fictional scenario, and then goes back into society living a normal healthy life then I just really don't see how that's any of my business or why I should be offended by their choice in fantasy or fiction.
Ultimately it still comes down to the same thing I said before. If nobody's getting harmed, then I literally believe that I do not have the moral right to force my distaste for certain media on others. It doesn't matter that it makes my stomach churn, because it's not for me, it does not harm me and, as best as I can tell, it doesn't harm anybody else.
Now to be fair, that seems a bit harsh. I can kinda get where they're coming from. And like I explained above, when people try to argue why some fucked up thing in fiction is perfectly alright, or even good, to the point where they sound like that's their actual real life opinion, my alarm bells go off just the same. That said, yeah, I'm inclined to trust scientific studies over my gut here and. And I believe and hope that that is the position that leads to the most reduction in harm to victims or would-be victims.
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Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
Kinda. Except the premise still needs you to be one adventurer among many who also happens to be at all of the major world defining events.
Edit : There's also the issue that the aspect that's most compelling about MMOs, essentially large scale VR LARP, cannot survive in the face of the relentless march of min maxing and player optimization.
As Folding Ideas put it, it's 'rude' to be bad at WoW.
View: https://youtu.be/BKP1I7IocYU
As the video puts it, in summary, the most devout players of WoW have simply optimized the fun out of the game.
The BGM is distracting from following instruction, strip it out. Particle effects make it hard to see what you're doing, turn them all off. Install false color texture packs to make everything more distinguishable. Install Macros that feed you precise moment by moment instructions on what to do . . .
It ceases to be playing a game and becomes mass participation in exploiting a system.
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This is mostly just my headcanon, and probably reflects what issues I'm struggling with, but to me Nurgle quite well represents the voice that says "no, you're doing great, no need to change anything, just stay riiiiiiight here!" even if everything's going to shit. It's crossing from contentment and self-love to complaceny, stagnation and decay. And yes, if applied to an interpersonal relationship that can absolutely be a form of abuse, even a particularly insidious one. I absolutely agree with @Drachyench on that one.
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
I'll go one further with my previous post.
Using strategy guides/wikis, for all that they help people to complete games, also destroys one of the parts of gaming that is so cognitively valuable. The option for self directed play.
I'd go so far as saying you shouldn't use a guide at all, on your first play through of any game, except maybe to get yourself untstuck.
If the game is actually fun enough to play again, THEN it's fun enough to look into the guide and learn about secret you missed the first time.
Using strategy guides/wikis, for all that they help people to complete games, also destroys one of the parts of gaming that is so cognitively valuable. The option for self directed play.
I'd go so far as saying you shouldn't use a guide at all, on your first play through of any game, except maybe to get yourself untstuck.
If the game is actually fun enough to play again, THEN it's fun enough to look into the guide and learn about secret you missed the first time.
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- Location
- Do you really care?
Eh, so are quite a lot of NPCs and such, I've yet to see it cause any real writing problems. It doesn't seem difficult to handle, because in a, like, 50 person raid, you are still just a face in the crowd.
Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
As for freedom, I still have some objections to too obvious violence and moral relativism.
- Location
- Drachyench on Discord
To cut to the chase here
Then again you also fell back on "lol Warhammer metaphors" without actually touching the meat of it so yeah, I'm going with purposeful attempt to detract / distract.
An abuser can love their victim, yes. That doesn't mean the victim isn't in an abusive relationship. Nor various other things (some of which pointed out by @Rhel just a bit above).
Understandable, and in that case I do genuinely apologize as while I'm very much use to being in spheres where advocacy of mental introspection and such aren't loaded I was also putting the cart before the horse since... well, like Morganite approximately said "That ain't what it's like for everyone".
Pretty much the meat of the Nurgle example, yeah.
The issue specifically relates to aforementioned proliferation of defenses and how in some cases they very much overswing and / or expose that somebody isn't actually that informed on the subject matter. Like to refer back to the thirsting comment I made, if somebody's justification is "Most of them look and act like they could be reasonably mature adults so it's fine with them. But not that character. They don't meet my / societal expectations of what is a mature adult so only those people are messed up" it shows that at best the person might need a refresher course on where the problematic aspects come in and why they're considered problematic. And that they may-or-may-not be carrying some weight in regards to other things as well, but in this specific context the focus on the other bit first.
cB557
voOOP
Honestly, that section of the video bugged me, because that all actually sounded really interesting to me? To me it actually sounds pretty fun to try and figure out stuff like what's the most important information you need to know in an encounter, what's the clearest way to convey it, and designing whole UI elements to keep members of the raid up to speed and organized. It's a sort of gameplay challenge I don't know you could find anywhere else. And all this wasn't like much of the other stuff in the video, which was focusing on unreasonable standards of optimization for even casual matchmade runs through story dungeons. This was specifically about high end raiding, a very much opt-in activity, so it's not like people are getting forced into playing the game this way. People were raiding like this because they wanted to, because it mattered to them. Felt shitty to me, like Dan was bemoaning that people weren't playing the game the right way when the rest of the video was more or less about criticizing others for doing just that.
Princess Scribe
A swelled-headed, gossipy, coquette gadabout.
- Location
- Venus
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Post studies or mald. I'm not going to engage in your fanfiction about space men when discussing ptsd and treatment for it.
- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It seems really weird to say that people "might need a refresher course on where the problematic aspects come in" and then completely fail to actually provide one. If you disagree with my logic then actually make an argument, these massive vague posts where you make elaborate metaphors but never get to the point is frankly more then a little tiresome.
Heck, if it wasn't for the first quoted section here I wouldn't even know that you were responding to my posts. That's how vague your vague posts are. I can understand if you don't want to enter some online deathmatch but you seem allergic to actually saying anything.
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Princess Scribe
A swelled-headed, gossipy, coquette gadabout.
- Location
- Venus
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So when you said those two papers were disputed, which ones did you think I posted?
This one by Debbie McCulliss & David Chamberlain in 2013?
This one by Shuai Yuan, Xinyu Zhou, Yuqing Zhang, Hanpin Zhang, Juncai Pu, & Lining Yang from 2018?
This one by Cecilia Pettersson in 2018?
This one by Zoe Brennan, Melissa Lankin, Rachel Morse, Brandi Rix, Teresa Beck in 2017
This one by Biri Rottenberg in 2021?
Anyways, I could probably look at other journals, instead of this single one, but you've obviously got your finger on the pulse here more than me.
This one by Debbie McCulliss & David Chamberlain in 2013?
This one by Shuai Yuan, Xinyu Zhou, Yuqing Zhang, Hanpin Zhang, Juncai Pu, & Lining Yang from 2018?
This one by Cecilia Pettersson in 2018?
This one by Zoe Brennan, Melissa Lankin, Rachel Morse, Brandi Rix, Teresa Beck in 2017
This one by Biri Rottenberg in 2021?
Anyways, I could probably look at other journals, instead of this single one, but you've obviously got your finger on the pulse here more than me.
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Princess Scribe
A swelled-headed, gossipy, coquette gadabout.
- Location
- Venus
- Pronouns
- She/Her
(The trick here is none of those are the ones I posted. You didn't respond to the contents of the journal at all, because you think hearsay, fanfiction, and warhammer is relevant in an academic debate with verifiable facts.)
It's not.
It's not.
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Queshire
Wants a pink flamingo for their lawn.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh hey, that's a lot of posts while I was sleeping.
*shrug* One half of your brain says sex is bad/you should be above sex. The other half says sex feels good. Somewhere in your subconciousness you try to ressolve that conflict and out pops, "well I can't be blamed in feeling good if I didn't have a choice in the matter." Of course the fact that it's a fantasy is important as well. That provides an important buffer.
FFXIV handles it pretty well by only having your character be the chosen one. Of course when someone else plays only their character is the chosen one. Generally the community doesn't have a problem with this.
*shrug* One half of your brain says sex is bad/you should be above sex. The other half says sex feels good. Somewhere in your subconciousness you try to ressolve that conflict and out pops, "well I can't be blamed in feeling good if I didn't have a choice in the matter." Of course the fact that it's a fantasy is important as well. That provides an important buffer.
FFXIV handles it pretty well by only having your character be the chosen one. Of course when someone else plays only their character is the chosen one. Generally the community doesn't have a problem with this.
Mandemon
Gentlemen, I love brawl.
- Location
- Cookie Jar
Um, isn't this how every MMO handles the matter? "Your character is Chosen One, everyone else is extra. it's your character who matters".
This does't sound like FFXIV deal, sounds more like standard MMO method. Every 76 player is the "last one to leave", all those other ones you meet? Left earlier. Even the ones that you literally see leaving the Vault after you.
Queshire
Wants a pink flamingo for their lawn.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
What's your point? I said it handles it well. Not that it neccessarily handled it uniquely.
- Location
- Do you really care?
That really depends on how you define "chosen one." I don't think you're anyone special in World of Warcraft or any of the ancient Korean MMOs I played for like a week a lifetime ago.
Princess Scribe
A swelled-headed, gossipy, coquette gadabout.
- Location
- Venus
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Rule 3: Be Civil - This series of posts is unacceptably toxic.
I am not trying to distract you, I am trying to educate you. It's apparent others have failed you in this matter, and you think this is how intellectuals function, I'm trying to make up for your previous educator's shortcomings. You do not get to ignore the papers posted and say "If those are the ones I am thinking of," when I've linked the papers to you. I gave you the links, you refused to click them so you could try and use a million words to drown out the arguments made in them. You are dismissing them without reading them, and have even admitted that the studies I'm referring too you didn't even read. If you're not going to even look at the abstracts why do you think you deserve to participate in this conversation? Your opinion holds no value, because it's based purely on tummy feels, you have no interest in changing your opinion.
At this point you're doing a self-guided typing test and inflicting the results on the rest of us.
This is a matter of trauma and treatment. Discuss it in plain terms, without metaphor, back it up with fact. Whining that arguments are hard is unseemly.
You are 33, please for the love of god argue like it.
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- Location
- Drachyench on Discord
I was referring to Rhel's papers specifically, because they were the ones who brought up studies in the first place. I am less versed on matters of Bibliotherapy and its assorted studies so-
Nevermind you're just being a prat and are indeed just trying to go "lmao look at this loser disregard everything he says".
Want a specific argument?
Okay: To begin with, there are issues with presentation specifically. Yes. The above commentary by me should not be taken in a vacuum to suggest that it's particularly equitable or fine to take a stern teenager who looks / acts older than their years [Jotaro Kujo was cited in here before by others, and so works well as "Person A"] and another who's Quite Clearly A Small Child [we'll use Kanna for "Person B" for meme reasons] and go "Yeah these are the exact same persons and situations". Because they are not.
But they beg the question of why such content is problematic in the first place. Such content is classified as Sexual Assault / Exploitation for a reason: The subject of such acts is, by popular definition / understanding, not recognized as being fully developed nor capable of properly grasping and coming to terms with / fully consenting to what such activity entails. There is almost definitively a lack of legal independence and the power provided by as much. Power dynamics will almost always be stacked in at least one manner against them, be it legally or socially or physically or multiple of the above or neither with some other aspect coming into play. There's a great deal more to this, but even just stopping there for now: Using as a shortcut one's apparent physical and / or mental maturity neatly packs and sets aside that this is just as much true if one is an early bloomer forced to grow up quickly or merely one or neither.
The carrying weight thing relates less to the above and more how putting disproportionate weight on how one looks and / or acts is how one also gets the situations wherein people who are fully grown, independent, rational, et al adults sometimes are caught up as collateral because disproportionate focus on physicality, mannerisms, tics, etcetera leads to somebody who - for example - has a small chest or bratty personality being at a disadvantage in pursuing their own romantic / sexual life because of those associations.
A mix of "Seeking to avoid online deathmatches", "Not wishing to single people out particularly if I'm misinterpreting their argument or missing context from having only joined in on page 1680 of the discussion," and "I've absolutely seen these kinds of arguments before outside SV / this thread and so they're still useful without pointing fingers at somebody".
- Location
- Drachyench on Discord
Frankly, and I get this is a civility ding but whatever, after five for five of your posts before this one were ones that made zero attempt to engage with what was said and were instead dunking on "lol warhams" "lol you fuckin' stupidest shit I've ever heard" nah you can fuck right off with the faux "I am trying to help you learn" bullshit as nah you don't try to teach somebody by throwing five pies in their face then pulling a chair in front of them going "Anyways you cock-sucking wanker since you're too fucking stupid for any school worth its salt I guess I'll do you a favor and save whatever braincells you might have left".
That ship sailed ages ago.
Princess Scribe
A swelled-headed, gossipy, coquette gadabout.
- Location
- Venus
- Pronouns
- She/Her
OH, no sorry, that was me belittling you, I didn't realize you would have thought it was sincere.
Being more civil, or typing more doesn't make you more correct. It just makes you more pleasant. Sadly you do not need to be pleasant when you are correct.
Being more civil, or typing more doesn't make you more correct. It just makes you more pleasant. Sadly you do not need to be pleasant when you are correct.
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Never thought about it like that but that makes sense I suppose.
Princess Scribe
A swelled-headed, gossipy, coquette gadabout.
- Location
- Venus
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't double back when I'm right.
The rules system is rather clear and I think the punishment is worth it to get the stress out, and break down without kid gloves not only how you are wrong, but why you are wrong, and have something other people can look at when they consider debating you.
Truly, I'm being a martyr burned on a stake built out of the dumbest shit you've managed to say.
The rules system is rather clear and I think the punishment is worth it to get the stress out, and break down without kid gloves not only how you are wrong, but why you are wrong, and have something other people can look at when they consider debating you.
Truly, I'm being a martyr burned on a stake built out of the dumbest shit you've managed to say.
ApocalypticFish
Been reflecting lately.
Gladly.
For similar reasons to why I slid off FF14, I slid off Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I might get back to playing XBC2 at some point, but the combat just did not feel good to me at all.
Or maybe I'll play its prequel, Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier. That might be good for a laugh
Alert: Thread is now Unlocked
- Location
- Singapore
thread is now unlocked
After some review of the thread's past couple posts, this thread is now unlocked. Sorry this took a while, I wasn't able to give this time earlier.
That being said, in the future please refrain from combat-posting like you're in a pit fight for your life. This is a thread about controversial gaming opinions you have, not knife fighting about each other's controversial gaming opinions.
That being said, in the future please refrain from combat-posting like you're in a pit fight for your life. This is a thread about controversial gaming opinions you have, not knife fighting about each other's controversial gaming opinions.