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What are controversial gaming opinions you have?

Ford Prefect said:
Man, we can have all kinds of disagreements about all kinds of things, but 'Dark Souls isn't an online game' is legitimately imagination land stuff.
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Dark Souls (and all the Fromsoft Soulslike games) can be played, to generally 100% completion (though farming covenant items offline can be tedious) all while offline. Literally, the servers for the Dark Souls trilogy were down and unavailable for months due to security issues... and the games were still fully playable and popular.

Ergo, Dark Souls is not an online game, it's a game with online features. Very heavily integrated online features that millions enjoy, sure, but still not an online game that requires an internet connection at any point.

This isn't exactly hard to understand, unless you're like... some kind of flat-earther or something.
 
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hghwolf said:
The argument isn't that Dark Souls isn't an online game, the argument is that Dark Souls is an online game in a way that means the reasons why a pause function would be hard, impossible or even harmful to the game to implement in something like WoW, Warframe or Dead by Daylight don't apply from a player perspective, even if Miyazaki is up his own arse about it.
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It's one thing to say that you think that pausing should be available when the online is strictly asynchronous, but it's another to act like an online game, in general, only lacks pause because the creator is being a dickhead is another. Taking that view when his stated interest in online interaction is a beautiful sentiment about people working together beggars belief. Online games don't generally allow you to pause, that's a normal trade off that you make while developing a game that has online as an objective.
 
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Ford Prefect said:
It's one thing to say that you think that pausing should be available when the online is strictly asynchronous, but it's another to act like an online game, in general, only lacks pause because the creator is being a dickhead is another.
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Miyazakis Vision isn't actually relevant to my argument though ? You're the one who thinks it's relevant. I just keep denying it as a valid reason for the omission of a pause function.

Like... do you go to bat for the gameplay effects of Daikatana being an 'expert shooter' as well ? Do you expect people to sheperd Mikiko and Superfly's atrocious AI across electrified floors, up and down elevators and through their own use of AoE weapons ? Do you think the Shotcycler was a good idea ? Do you think save gems are good ?

Like, I'm one of those people who will actually defend Romero and Daikatana on concept and ideas, but man does the execution fail along pretty much every axis, and the games in hand aren't Miyazakis Vision and Romeros Dream, they're Dark Souls and Daikatana.

Except, y'know, Dark Souls is a good game with some flaws where Daikatana is a flaw with some beautiful fractures.
 
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hghwolf said:
Miyazakis Vision isn't actually relevant to my argument though ? You're the one who thinks it's relevant. I just keep denying it as a valid reason for the omission of a pause function.
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The basis of my argument isn't 'Miyazaki's vision.' I did discuss his intentions around online some pages ago for elaboration, but my argument is based on the presence and prevalence of the online features themselves. That the publisher said it as well is really just gravy. By comparison you did attribute the design decision to Miyazaki being pretentious, certainly earlier in the discussion:

hghwolf said:
Anyway Souls and Soulslikes not having a pause button is just Miyazaki high on his own supply.
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That seemed like a pretty definitive statement on the topic.
 
hghwolf said:
Dark Souls - and its descendants - are not online multiplayer games 90% of the time for anyone not deliberately engaging in PvP, and the 10% of the time that they are it's either a deliberate choice on the players part to hit that sign or some asshole who's about to make his inferiority complex your problem by foisting unwanted PvP on you. Yes, it's completely reasonable to not have a pause function in continuous online multiplayer games but Dark Souls et al just... aren't ? I don't get why Dark Souls lack of pause function should be treated the same as say WoW or TOR's lack of pause function. 90% of the time you're not interacting with other players and aren't even in anything like the same instance as them.

Calling Dark Souls an online multiplayer game when the vast bulk of it involves no interaction and barely even communication with other players by design is mindboggling.

But it sure is convenient to call it that to defend the lack of a pause button in what is essentially a single player game with CoOp, as long as you're willing to just quit out when inferiority complex phantom comes in(Like... does ANYONE actually like the involuntary invasion systems, other than invaders ?). It's not like it's a technical issue, if it ever was it's solved as demonstrated by Elden Ring, so what other than 'muh artistic vision' remains ? A input conflict trivially solved by not having gestures on a dedicated button ?
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Messages, Bloodstains and phantoms (and not the co-op or invasion Phantoms either... The translucent ghostly ones I meant... That sounds like a oxymoron but eh I tried) those beg to differ


Besides you do have a pause button... It's the quit button :V

In all seriousness that actually might as well be the pause button, the only drawbacks is that it will reset boss fights (it also could save you from falling which is a neat trick if you can manage it)
 
NemoMarx said:
The timing of this all is really funny, because they just announced a new elden ring game with more coop integration, I guess?

Details to be seen but that was the vibe in the trailer.
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paranoia is making me smell a cynical stab at making a live service game and it's making me unhappy thinking about it
 
Ford Prefect said:
That seemed like a pretty definitive statement on the topic.
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You're mixing my argument 'there is no technical or gameplay reason for Souls to omit a pause function' with my belief 'why Souls doesn't have a pause function despite that'.

They are connected in the sense that I have the latter due to the details of the former, but the the latter doesn't influence the former.

In any event, I'm entirely sick of talking in circles here so you may have the last word, should you so choose.
 
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Non-believers: Souls games are not primarily multiplayer games.

Lord Miyazaki: So Elden Ring Nightreign is literally just Elden Ring with more co-op focus.

Also Lord Miyazaki: Btw wanna fight the Nameless King again?
 
hghwolf said:
In any event, I'm entirely sick of talking in circles here so you may have the last word, should you so choose.
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Alright. In spite of the extended length (and increasing circularity) of this dispute and regardless of the fact that our positions were irreconcilable I did enjoy this argument, it's rare to have an opportunity to go this in-depth over something like this.
 
foamy said:
I don't fully understand why we've had like five goddamn pages of argument over Dark Souls (et al) when the original expressed opinion, reproduced below, had literally nothing to do with it and specifically excluded MP games from consideration.
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Probably because (and I had to check to make sure the game was what he was talking about) Outward has a pause feature, it's even called "Pause Game".
 
Zeful said:
Probably because (and I had to check to make sure the game was what he was talking about) Outward has a pause feature, it's even called "Pause Game".
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It doesn't. I literally have the game. Entering menu does not pause the game, only way to pause is to quit to main menu.
 
Mandemon said:
It doesn't. I literally have the game. Entering menu does not pause the game, only way to pause is to quit to main menu.
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Given that I play Outward, and can generate images of the the game whenever I want:

Now, of course, there's a non zero chance you were talking about another game and just put down Outward for innumerable reasons, it happens. I've called Bioware Bethesda in two separate debates on the same day. But Outward has a pause function.
 
I've seen dumber.

This is still really ass-backwards, though. I'll give you that.
 
Valmond said:
Elden Ring would be literally unplayable without Finger But Hole. :V

The messages and ghosts are sometimes interesting, or funny, especially the bloodstains of people jumping into their deaths.
But i would not call them important, and sometimes the gameplay actually improves when you turn of the online features.
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Pictured below, messages seen in places like heroes grave and Shunting Grounds



https://i.redd.it/zglkz67pieja1.png

Edit: Wish these images would unfurl but SV doesn't play well with Reddit
 
Fourthspartan56 said:
This is such a odd way to frame the messages. They're little messages on the ground, not a group chat spamming directly into your HUD. You can very easily have "quiet moments of reflection" if you so choose.

You don't need to read every message. I'm someone who likes the system and I definitely just walk past them more often then not. If you hate them so much but then feel the need to go and read every one then that says more about your poor decision making then anything else. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to ruin your somber experience. This is a weirdly overwrought view of them. You obviously dislike the community engagement parts of it, whatever- that's your right, but this is such an oddly self-serious way to describe it.
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Sorry for the double post in advance


Actually the messages, Bloodstains and Phantom ghost (I.E not actually "Phantoms... more like shades) players can actually build atmosphere

In the Shunting Grounds seeing all the Bloodstains and then seeing random Shades plummet down the hole and not knowing if they survive or not with messages on precarious ledges that led nowhere being like "God, Help Me...." And "Regret" with the gesture being point up whilst having this play in the background

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RCNUFrsbE&t=387s&pp=ygUWU2h1bnRpbmcgR3JvdW5kcyBtdXNpYw%3D%3D

... I don't know it just felt oddly sad and otherworldly... Playing it offline just isn't the same @hghwolf
Sometimes seeing what others are experiencing even at a modicum... Still feels so sad, lonely and desolate despite not technically being alone in the area... Perhaps it's because you can't really summon or invade in the area and the lack of enemies (the enemies that are there are also just... Depressing to think about, especially when you know their lore of why they are here and like this) plus what happens when you reach the bottom and see WHY this was so forgotten (and guarded by a weird blood golem of Mohg even before you enter this entire zone... I oddly found the fake blood golem of Mohg harder than the actual Mohg if you can believe it)


"Honestly this area just solidified to me that The Golden Order is nothing more than a lie that should never be restored" Said one comment on the video

"Everytime I always go through this place with Disgust. Seeing all the defiled corpses of the Merchant people, knowing the lore behind what caused them to slowly die down here. Going down this pit makes me feel horrible inside, a whole community forced into tight places forced to rot. Having everything taken from them with the exception of a few measly instruments that were probably concealed from the guards to begin with.


I don't know maybe disgust isn't the word for the emotion I feel. But it's revolting to see life that could've been thriving and hopeful turned into nothing but hateful husks, the people here were put down here on nothing but a rumour. No evidence, no real tangible reason as to why these people should be locked away. I believe that these people were a threat due to their natural abilities to curry favour with gods, they were sealed away because someone very important knew what these Caravaners were capable of, in some ways they would be quite similar to our Tarnished.


The final hollowed being still able to move, plays a common tune amongst the merchants. I can only assume what this tune is, but given it's the last song playing I think it might be something along the lines of an Anthem or given that the theme is more calm, it could be a Lullaby. A lullaby, on repeat to quench the burning hatred of whole community. A community who wanted nothing more than freedom.

Sad days" said another comment


"It is often considered in cases of dementia that the very last thing a person forgets is their favorite song.

That's the idea this music makes me think of. Having forgotten all else, clutching desperately onto the last thing thats familiar as if letting it go is to lose even that which makes you human."

Without the shades and Bloodstains and melancholic messages everywhere the area for me probably wouldn't hit as hard
 
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This feels like a good time to state that I wasn't really able to get into Astro Bot. It's neat. It's kinda cute. I do not understand how it's been established as something so special.
 
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