- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Controversial gaming opinion: video games are good.
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What are controversial gaming opinions you have?
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
If you see no other use for women other than breeding stock and traditionally nurturing support roles, like you don't even see them as valuable for basic labor, then you by definition have an ideological problem with women. Medieval Europe was misogynistic, but not so much to be all like "No! Fuck you!" if a woman ended up owning assets or helping out with a traditionally male endeavour.
And bigots will make exceptions for either personal or pragmatic reasons all the time.
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...a piece of music published by a young woman in he 18th century through her brother who was a music publisher, using a male pseudonym?
I mean it's not like you can do a deep study of its context as pertaining to female musicians in a deeply sexist culture because we know nothing about her because well
she never published anything else and faded into total obscurity despite how well known her piece is
you could have tried harder
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Damn the other factions in the setting who are on the same level of evil do not have such a policy. Raiders do not reduce their girls to slaves for the creation of children. The enclave clearly does not have a rigid policy of not allowing women to join forces or work. The Master was insane and wanted to make everyone equal by turning people into a new race what lookis like a huge wrinkled pea. The Institute and the Brotherhood, although not completely villains, are still antagonists and they also do not have problems with women or a stupid reproduction policy ... So yes, the Legion has purely ideological reasons for their actions even in the universe and Caesar is simply a huge hypocrite.
I even think that the primitive tribes that were thrown back to the stone age and who were enslaved by Caesar also did not have this policy ...
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- Location
- Canada
It isn't superfluous. Ceaser saw the modern world's fall to nuclear war as a sign that it was broken and the clock needed to be rolled back to a point without the problems that doomed it. Its actually just an extension of the philosophies of several other factions just taken to the nth degree. The wasteland is full of people obsessed with the past and either unconvering it venerating it or preserving it. The problem is that as the intro says "war never changes" which cuts both ways. There is no prelapsarian time of humanity before we ruined it. The flaws that brought down the Roman empire are in many ways the same ones that brought down Fallout's hypernationalistic retro future America.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Okay, so is chopsticks about the author and her politics then?
Raiders have absolutely raped and slave traded in Fallout. They just aren't using Rome as a historical smokescreen for it. There's a whole big slaver plot in Fallout 2, with a lot of the slaves being women, and the lead slaver will actively attempt to extort a female PC for sex.
The Legion aren't the only misogynists out there.
The two aren't entirely separate no matter how much you want to pretend they are, no.
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vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
You know, at this point I'm leaning towards the opinion that most political slogans are inherently snappy, esoteric, and usually mean something contrary to the straightforward reading of them*. It's almost advertisement-speak in its departure from a straight reading; "Red Bull gives you wings; disclaimer: image of wings strictly for illustrative purposes" (in which case the image totally doesn't illustrate anything related to the effects of said ginger bovine liquid).
* == Which is extra-ironic given the recent statement that all of the burden of avoiding misunderstandings is totally on the author and not the reader.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Mmm, I'm not saying that raiders do not have slaves, do not engage in rape, or that they are good guys. I say that they basically consist of women and men who want to kill you. to enslave you or at the very best to take your food from you. Also slave owners of the Den are do not represent all the factions of raiders. They are just one faction, which is sexist and consists of men. In addition to the external mercenaries of which they are hired, that are headed by a woman. Metzger also does not claim that he has some sort of supreme goal and insane philosophies, he is just your standard asshole slave owner.
And I did not say that the legion is the only mysogynists out there , I say that their level of these things is extremely high.
I thought that the Legion is an example of what happens when you try to replicate the past without knowing anything about it. The Legion is not Rome, they are trying to imitate it. But I do not think that they are doing particularly well. And honestly, I do not think that the fall of Rome and America's fall are comparable.
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
okay so if the politics of the author are within the work then show me how you would deduce them from the work itself.
- Location
- Texas, US
The Legion is a nomadic army, not a nation or state. Women in combat is a touchy and recent subject even for our oh so free and equal modern states.
In any event, given Caesar raises and indoctrinates men to fuel his war machine, I think it is most fair to say he views everyone as mere objects. He pretty much says this when defining Pax Romana.
The Englanderish
Schrödinger's Kuudere Kitty Caliph(a)
- Location
- Califat de Chats
This is kinda what I mean when I say that politics are inherently dirty and unpleasant and to be handled with tongs and gloves and by necessity only. It's full from top to bottom with buzzwords, dogwhistles, ideologues and more and navigating it is emotionally exhausting at the best of times.
Rome wasn't very nice; just like basically every large superpower (USA, PRC, USSR, the Axis, the Ottomans, the assorted colonial empires, the Diadochi, Imperial China and so on) were not very nice.
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I'll be honest, I'm not really interested in playing this game with you? I don't believe, given the context of your posts here, that you actually are interested in how this works, but in semantically poking holes to prove me wrong, and that just...doesn't seem like fun?
- Location
- Russia
Isn't that how arguments work? To be fair, there's definitely a degree of mutual agreement to poke each other in any decent argument, which might be lacking here, but still that's pretty much how they work.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
look i'll make it simple, being in the vicinity of politics does not make something political, being produced by something political doesnt even neccesaarily make it political, as an extreme example feces is not political but says a lot more about it's creator than chopsticks does.
It's more like...arguing is actually really stressful for me, and it's something I feel compelled to do despite not enjoying it. If I'm wrong and @Carrnage was honestly curious, I will give them a full apology and do my best to make a clear, concise outline of exactly why I believe what I believe. But just based on pattern recognition, I feel like this'll end up being closer to a fight than a discussion, and as I started writing a counter-post I just realized "This ends with me miserable, frustrated, and depressed. Why do I do this to myself? Why can't I just shut the fuck up?"
yeah see nothing productive comes out of this. I will get very angry at you, you will get very angry at me, and no enjoyment will be had. I'll instead go watch a show I like, you go watch a show you like, and we will both have a better time than if me and you tried to convince the other. Sound good?
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Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I think it's bullshit. All the rest can use women in combat, even bloody tribal factions. But not the Caesar's Legion? My point is that for Fallout women in combat this is not a new subject, it is well established fact of the universe in which they live. I do not buy what is utilitarianism that pushes the sexism of the legion.
Well, yes, but I think this is missing the point. Being tough does not in itself lead to success. Conducting conquests does not lead to success if you break about the first serious opponent. There is much more for a successful superpower than to be tough and consist of tough men. And Caesar understands this ... But it's not obvious how he intends to solve this problem. And whether he intends to decide something at all.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
I hold a contraey position but that doesnt make my arguments bad faith, if arguments are stressful for you i apologise for stress i caused you.
The Englanderish
Schrödinger's Kuudere Kitty Caliph(a)
- Location
- Califat de Chats
Well, that's just it - Rome was just this succession of shitshows after shitshows and crises and everything collapsing and then being patched together again to the point where the "Five good emperors" is a specific period where this for once didn't happen too much for 5 rulers in a row. It was a civilisation built upon might! and strength! and so on and as a pretty much direct result was near-constantly falling apart and otherwise a mess.
- Location
- Canada
The legion is not Rome you are right but that applies to most of the factions in the world. Neither the Brotherhood nor the Enclave are America but they are both trying to restore and replicate the version of America that is in their minds. The Kings are not Elvis Presley but keep a up appearances and ideas of what they think Elvis was (even if they are completely wrong in some ways). That is kinda the point. A major message of the fallout games is "obsessing over the past and trying to replicate it is stupid because just like the Leave it to Beaver wholesome era people attribute to the fifties it never really existed." The legion just takes this to eleven and has the glorious past that is venerated being Ancient Rome instead of the fitites or sixites or whatever.
I didn't mean to imply your position or the argument itself as bad faith, more like...do you think I could have persuaded you, at all? Were you actually curious why I said what I said, or thought what I thought? Or did you find my position and statements frustrating, and seek to prove them wrong? I shouldn't have worded like I did, I'm not the best communicator. I just didn't feel like we would be exchanging thoughts and views to come to a greater understanding of an issue so much as fighting over which view is Right until the other concedes.
I was quite possibly projecting my own character flaws onto you, and if so, I apologize. I just had this sudden epiphany that so many arguments I'm in just end up being fights, and that's just an exhausting thought.
Look, just, the flaw is in my, not you, and no apology from you needed. I'm the one who is sorry.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
In my opinion this is not a Fallout theme, it's the theme of Fallout New Vegas and even then I'm ready to argue with you about how important it is and how much it can be to blame other societies as stupid. And in my opinion you confuse the Brotherhood of Steel with the NСR, because I do not see how the brotherhood tries to replicate the old America. And the Enclave does not imitate old America. They are the old America, they are the remnants of the primary US government, I do not think that they imitate anyone other than themselves.
The enclave wants to regain the power that they had before and build America anew. This is somewhat different from the NCR which seem to recognize that they do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past, but they make both old and new mistakes.
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Renewal
Boring Person #5883781345
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eh, I just consider it something like the "rules" of writing (e.g., never use passive voice), in that they're most often addressed to the completely uninformed, because that's who's least capable of grasping the concept at large. Or in other words, they're addressed to the least common denominator, because you can't really have a more complex conversation with them until they're able to accept the broad generalization.
The Englanderish
Schrödinger's Kuudere Kitty Caliph(a)
- Location
- Califat de Chats
If you default to generalisations, expect to be generalised to. Acting all snobbish because the plebs can't possibly understand complexity or depth just rubs me very thoroughly the wrong way. People can learn if you give them the chance and you don't need to feed them simplified inaccuracies out of a misguided desire to dupe them into following you.
Renewal
Boring Person #5883781345
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, it's not snobbery? Starting with the simplest concepts can be a valid teaching tool, and it gives a broad foundation to build on. It's like Economics and Physics 101, with perfect competition and frictionless vacuums being a simple starting ground to start demonstrating and explaining more complicated and realistic models and ideas. And like all tools, it's definitely not one-size-fits-all, but it does have its place, because some people do need to start at that sort of basics.
The Englanderish
Schrödinger's Kuudere Kitty Caliph(a)
- Location
- Califat de Chats
Problem being it's bandied about so much and it's so fundamentally wrong that you don't need to be very clever to see why it's bullshit. It's insulting to intelligence at best and actively works against foundational building. Plus it gets repeated so much that it's just a bad advert.