Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
[X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order
- Location
- Belgium
[X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order
- Location
- Sydney
What kind of ship do we want to build, and therefore what are our research priorities?
I would like to disguse ourselves/our ship as a Rogue Trader, one based on a Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser to be specfic.
Rogue Trader ships vary significantly, which is a major advantage considering we do not have any Imperial/Mechanicus ship designs. By impersonating a Rogue Trader we could easily build any Grand Cruiser design, and then many Imperials would just assume our ship was originally Exorcist-class without Vita even knowing about the class.
To create a Rogue Trader Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser only has 2 required research options before construction;
1st [] Heavy Cruisers (300 RP) How to make a bigger ship? Let's figure that out. Surely it's not much more complicated than just multiplying all of the dimensons by two! (unlocks heavy cruisers)
2nd [] Can I have a new ship please? (200 RP) Triggers a sub-turn to design yourself a new ship. It can be any size, up to one class larger than what you currently have available (This is Vita's unique mechanic, and will let you design the first iteration of your ship)
I would really like to research -[] Improved Psychic shielding: (500 RP) before building the ship, or at the very least during construction. IMO it would be a mistake to leave this system without better defences against hostile Warp entities.
[X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order, with starting Grand Cruiser Research
-[X] Diplomacy: The Summit of Denva II
--[X] Well, with the back of the regressive folks decisively broken, the time has come to build something new. Fortunately, you're a lot better at this than you are at kinetic encounters. Using the contacts you've forged, the trust you've garnered, bring everyone to the bargaining table, acting as both mediator and arbitrator to any agreements made. At the end of the day, a world may be able to survive with their guns pointed at each other, but it'll always be an unstable situation that'll fall apart when an unplanned pressure is put on it. The Mechanicus of Denva must join hands with the people of Denva--this isn't even us saying that they need to give up all the secrets--we know and understand full well that Technology is hard and acquiring mastery of even a single branch of it can be the work of a lifetime even if you had unlimited access to knowledge--but extending that monopoly to even basic of the basic techniques and disciplines is doing nobody any favors--the Mechanicus need to waste time and energy on simple maintenance and manufacturing that could be taught to a well trained technician instead of furthering their Question for Knowledge, and the people meanwhile are bottlenecked in their growth and development. Nobody benefits from this, and we have a chance now to establish a system that actually gives everyone what they want instead of spending tremendous energy just to build and point weapons at each other. Help them out, provide incentives, anecdotes, and evidence backing our position, and hopefully we can develop a system that can stand the test of time. (TL;DR: Use all the groundwork we've built up over the course of the game to help hammer out a new order in Denva II, one that hopefully makes it damn clear that you can't expect to have your scientists have to do all the basic manufacturing and maintenance and still expect to have the time to further their own development. Use our database to support our arguments as needed, and don't be too afraid to release non militarized designs and concepts as carrots too.)
--[X] Victan can hopefully give us a bonus on this.
-[X] Diploversion?: Also, what's with the station?
--[X] You're willing to continue the Work with Klyssar Station--goodness knows we'd like some reasonably up to date charts so we can figure out what's going on in the area ourselves. Promise our support, and prove it by way of not only sending them supplies, but reinforcements as well to help chew through their defenses. We'll also send our already established remote proxy to help coordinate any efforts, and determine f there's anything else we can do to assist the project.
-[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
--[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
--[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
--[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
--[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
--[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
--[X] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
-[X] Research (200 + 25 RP)
--[X] Biology is kinda wet (75 + 25 Anexa RP)
--[X] Heavy Cruisers (125/300 RP)
-[X] [ANEXA] Biology is kinda wet
-[X] [VICTAN] Communication - We're doing a lot of that this turn I notice, and I don't think we're being very subtle about it.
I would like to disguse ourselves/our ship as a Rogue Trader, one based on a Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser to be specfic.
Rogue Trader ships vary significantly, which is a major advantage considering we do not have any Imperial/Mechanicus ship designs. By impersonating a Rogue Trader we could easily build any Grand Cruiser design, and then many Imperials would just assume our ship was originally Exorcist-class without Vita even knowing about the class.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Rogue_Trader_Cruiser said:
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Exorcist-class_Grand_Cruiser said:
To create a Rogue Trader Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser only has 2 required research options before construction;
1st [] Heavy Cruisers (300 RP) How to make a bigger ship? Let's figure that out. Surely it's not much more complicated than just multiplying all of the dimensons by two! (unlocks heavy cruisers)
2nd [] Can I have a new ship please? (200 RP) Triggers a sub-turn to design yourself a new ship. It can be any size, up to one class larger than what you currently have available (This is Vita's unique mechanic, and will let you design the first iteration of your ship)
I would really like to research -[] Improved Psychic shielding: (500 RP) before building the ship, or at the very least during construction. IMO it would be a mistake to leave this system without better defences against hostile Warp entities.
[X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order, with starting Grand Cruiser Research
-[X] Diplomacy: The Summit of Denva II
--[X] Well, with the back of the regressive folks decisively broken, the time has come to build something new. Fortunately, you're a lot better at this than you are at kinetic encounters. Using the contacts you've forged, the trust you've garnered, bring everyone to the bargaining table, acting as both mediator and arbitrator to any agreements made. At the end of the day, a world may be able to survive with their guns pointed at each other, but it'll always be an unstable situation that'll fall apart when an unplanned pressure is put on it. The Mechanicus of Denva must join hands with the people of Denva--this isn't even us saying that they need to give up all the secrets--we know and understand full well that Technology is hard and acquiring mastery of even a single branch of it can be the work of a lifetime even if you had unlimited access to knowledge--but extending that monopoly to even basic of the basic techniques and disciplines is doing nobody any favors--the Mechanicus need to waste time and energy on simple maintenance and manufacturing that could be taught to a well trained technician instead of furthering their Question for Knowledge, and the people meanwhile are bottlenecked in their growth and development. Nobody benefits from this, and we have a chance now to establish a system that actually gives everyone what they want instead of spending tremendous energy just to build and point weapons at each other. Help them out, provide incentives, anecdotes, and evidence backing our position, and hopefully we can develop a system that can stand the test of time. (TL;DR: Use all the groundwork we've built up over the course of the game to help hammer out a new order in Denva II, one that hopefully makes it damn clear that you can't expect to have your scientists have to do all the basic manufacturing and maintenance and still expect to have the time to further their own development. Use our database to support our arguments as needed, and don't be too afraid to release non militarized designs and concepts as carrots too.)
--[X] Victan can hopefully give us a bonus on this.
-[X] Diploversion?: Also, what's with the station?
--[X] You're willing to continue the Work with Klyssar Station--goodness knows we'd like some reasonably up to date charts so we can figure out what's going on in the area ourselves. Promise our support, and prove it by way of not only sending them supplies, but reinforcements as well to help chew through their defenses. We'll also send our already established remote proxy to help coordinate any efforts, and determine f there's anything else we can do to assist the project.
-[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
--[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
--[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
--[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
--[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
--[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
--[X] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
-[X] Research (200 + 25 RP)
--[X] Biology is kinda wet (75 + 25 Anexa RP)
--[X] Heavy Cruisers (125/300 RP)
-[X] [ANEXA] Biology is kinda wet
-[X] [VICTAN] Communication - We're doing a lot of that this turn I notice, and I don't think we're being very subtle about it.
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These research option is far from optimal. On the one hand, it pospone further getting the basics in biology and physics done. And on the other hand it doesn't finish this turn, so it makes us miss yet an other opportunity to level up Anexa (and fish for a crit).
- Location
- Sydney
Edited to give Anexa an opportunity to level up.
The basics in biology and physics, along with our many other useful research options, are not as high a priority in my view. I'd like to research what we need for building a Grand Cruiser, and then devote one action every turn on building it. While the ship is under construction we can (and should) spend some of our other actions on research.
I don't expect this vote to win, if it wins great, however this is mainly to vote for the research I want.
'Sorting out the New Order' is a great plan and does have some progress towards constructing the Grand Cruiser so I used it as a base.
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We cannot really pretend to be a Rogue Trader to any official worth their salt, no Warrant of Trade and I do not think we know enough about them to convincingly forge one.
- Location
- Netherlands
Honestly, you have to respect this kind of blunt "I don't care who's in charge. Who do I work for now?"
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Returning to an earlier bit of info that has been bothering me:
About this, @Neablis, where does the 115 years come from? I thought that our turns were at 5-year intervals, and with 13 turns that comes only up to 65 years. So from where did the extra 50 years appear to the time Vita has been awake? Sorry if this has been answered already, but didn't find anything mentioning this again.
We may well need safe port but Denva can never be that. This planet is never going to be protecting us in the span of this quest, not unless we give them AI. We can build a fleet of watships and exist as a robotic craftworld with built-in armies which we can make more of by just grabbing some asteroids and turning dirt into DAoT class weapons and expendable soldiers. Just in raw productive and research capacity we are a baby Hive Fleet that works with metal instead of flesh.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I disagree - though, in part because I do expect to eventually give them AI, actually. Building Denva into a civilization that can hold against all comers long enough for us to help is something we're likely to poke and make contributions to throughout the quest - we start with making them merely a hard enough target that they don't seem worth bothering with for how little there is to gain, and go from there - and setting them on course to do so on their own is absolutely in our reach before we leave.
And then when we come back, we push them along further and they help us out with joint R&D too. What form exactly that takes depends on what we got up to in the meantime, but this is when I'd expect "give them an AI" to be on the table.
That's just what long-term investment looks like, honestly.
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Uh I was tired and bad at math. 65 years! Edited the quoted text.
You can do the opposite, though it still uses lift capacity. I mostly assumed you'd want to convert it ground-to-void but yeah if you have shuttles you can totally do void-to-ground.
I broadly agree, it's just I do not trust them with AI, not for any fault of their own but because this is 40K, it is full of things that can eat a baby AI for breakfast and then steal the tech. We come back one day find out oops, Denva has been conquered by Chaos also Chaos now have AI, the galaxy is even more screwed than it used to be. I do not think we should trust AI tech out of our sight the danger is just that grave.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
My thoughts on the matter about streghtening our starter planet: the best way to do that is to go out, explore stuff and make new friends and alliances.
Seriously, we have an explorer build for our character. At some point, which I think is very soon, we will be hitting dimishing returns in building tall our starting location VS finding stuff that we can later use to strengthen our starting position. Time is not standing still for us to finish all our side-quests while staying at one location, unlike it does in (most) videogames.
Seriously, we have an explorer build for our character. At some point, which I think is very soon, we will be hitting dimishing returns in building tall our starting location VS finding stuff that we can later use to strengthen our starting position. Time is not standing still for us to finish all our side-quests while staying at one location, unlike it does in (most) videogames.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well said.
I think it's premature to conclude that we should never do it - but valid to list the heat it could draw as a significant challenge. We need a certain amount of conventional oomph before something like an AI can be stationed there without us, and even once we do, I fully believe that there being an AI at all is something that would mostly be kept secret.
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