Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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Hmmm. @Neablis, now that we lead the mechanicus, did our free lookup get any more powerful? E.G. better access to more secure files now that many of those who secured them answer to us directly to provide access, and those belonging to the dead no longer have anyone who will stop us from overtly breaking in.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
Hmmm. @Neablis, now that we lead the mechanicus, did our free lookup get any more powerful? E.G. better access to more secure files now that many of those who secured them answer to us directly to provide access, and those belonging to the dead no longer have anyone who will stop us from overtly breaking in.
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Yeah, probably a little bit. There's chunks of it that are probably completely inaccessible to you, since they require ~inquisitorial codes and the only person who might have had those was Thalya and she probably never passed them on.

Edit: and chunks of it were completely destroyed/deleted in your assaults on various enclaves.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I broadly agree, it's just I do not trust them with AI, not for any fault of their own but because this is 40K, it is full of things that can eat a baby AI for breakfast and then steal the tech. We come back one day find out oops, Denva has been conquered by Chaos also Chaos now have AI, the galaxy is even more screwed than it used to be. I do not think we should trust AI tech out of our sight the danger is just that grave.
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I kinda disagree with the "we can't let AI out of our sight". For one we do have warp shielding for protection but more than that the solution to a dangerous galaxy isn't to turtle up and horde advantages to ourselves it's to spread them far and wide. Sure some AI will likly get captured or turn evil or whatever but that will be more than counteracted by the many more who aren't.
 
Questwolf said:
I kinda disagree with the "we can't let AI out of our sight". For one we do have warp shielding for protection but more than that the solution to a dangerous galaxy isn't to turtle up and horde advantages to ourselves it's to spread them far and wide. Sure some AI will likly get captured or turn evil or whatever but that will be more than counteracted by the many more who aren't.
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If one AI falls to Chaos and is allowed to make more of itself the galaxy is so screwed it is hard to describe in words. AI are endless factories and laboratories of technological armies on a level far beyond present human tech only they and everything they make (if not shielded which a Chaos AI would not be) make perfect daemon hosts. Having access to the Warp would allow them to scale out of all proportion to sane non-Chaotic AI.
 
meianmaru said:
My thoughts on the matter about streghtening our starter planet: the best way to do that is to go out, explore stuff and make new friends and alliances.

Seriously, we have an explorer build for our character. At some point, which I think is very soon, we will be hitting dimishing returns in building tall our starting location VS finding stuff that we can later use to strengthen our starting position. Time is not standing still for us to finish all our side-quests while staying at one location, unlike it does in (most) videogames.
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I'd like to pick up a psyker crew mate before then. We haven't even begun to talk to the enclaves!
 
DragonParadox said:
If one AI falls to Chaos and is allowed to make more of itself the galaxy is so screwed it is hard to describe in words. AI are endless factories and laboratories of technological armies on a level far beyond present human tech only they and everything they make (if not shielded which a Chaos AI would not be) make perfect daemon hosts. Having access to the Warp would allow them to scale out of all proportion to sane non-Chaotic AI.
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Eh, if it was that easy it probably would have happened already. IMO, chaos is inherently self defeating, they'd fight over the shiny or just flat out ruin it. Not before laying waste to a big swathe of the galaxy of course, but hey, what else is new. :/
 
Angle said:
Eh, if it was that easy it probably would have happened already. IMO, chaos is inherently self defeating, they'd fight over the shiny or just flat out ruin it. Not before laying waste to a big swathe of the galaxy of course, but hey, what else is new. :/
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I don't think it would have. When I say 'AI' I mean an AI like Vita with the tech base of the DAoT in her data banks, not some poor cybernetic husk held together with scotch tape and daemons by whatever dark magos made it. And the thing is AI like Vita died fifteen thousand years ago, millennia before Chaos as the modern galaxy knows it existed. Before the Birth of Slaanesh Chaos was still asleep, held in check by the Eldar Pantheon. While the other Men of Stone and Men of Iron may have fallen to Waro corruption none of them encountered proper Slaves of Darkness, the Warriors of Chaos, or the daemonic hosts of the Pantheon awoken.
 
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DragonParadox said:
If one AI falls to Chaos and is allowed to make more of itself the galaxy is so screwed it is hard to describe in words. AI are endless factories and laboratories of technological armies on a level far beyond present human tech only they and everything they make (if not shielded which a Chaos AI would not be) make perfect daemon hosts. Having access to the Warp would allow them to scale out of all proportion to sane non-Chaotic AI.
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I don't see how something is more of a perfect demon host just cause it's made by an AI instead of a human nor how access to the warp would give a Chaos AI the ability to outscale a non Chaos AI. AI already exist in 40k without automaticly falling to Chaos and dooming the whole galaxy.
 
Questwolf said:
I don't see how something is more of a perfect demon host just cause it's made by an AI instead of a human nor how access to the warp would give a Chaos AI the ability to outscale a non Chaos AI. AI already exist in 40k without automaticly falling to Chaos and dooming the whole galaxy.
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Because it is a soulless intelligence, a daemon in a daemon host has to contend with the presence of the original soul which still has all sorts of opinions about how the body should be run (for instance look at the possessed Marines of the Word Bearer ) or it has to deal with the unfortunate fact that it is pupeting a corpse and so has to put a lot of effort as well as its limited intellect to making this run at all. A soulless inteligence on the other hand provides all the advantages of superior intelligence and multi-tasking as well as vast technological archives without that pesky will to hold it back

Being able to freely access the warp allows everything from a limitless source of matter and energy to daemon powered weapons and tools to superior speed. It would not necesarily doom the whole galaxy, the necrons or the Tyranids would remain the most likely to sweep the board, but it would make Chaos a lot more powerful since they could enact mass AI adoption where as most of humanity could not even if they wanted since most of them are Imperials.
 
We have psychic shielding technology. We have the potential to improve it, by a lot. This is a solveable problem and we have the tools to solve it.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is true, we could eventually get to the point of sufficiently shielded AI, but that is not going to be for a while therefore it would not be relevant to the prospects of Denva's short-to-mid term growth.
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All of the problems you are pointing out are also applicable to us, so this seems like just scaremongering. If Psychic Shields hold up for us, they will hold up for whetever AI we will leave here.
 
DragonParadox said:
Because it is a soulless intelligence, a daemon in a daemon host has to contend with the presence of the original soul which still has all sorts of opinions about how the body should be run (for instance look at the possessed Marines of the Word Bearer ) or it has to deal with the unfortunate fact that it is pupeting a corpse and so has to put a lot of effort as well as its limited intellect to making this run at all. A soulless inteligence on the other hand provides all the advantages of superior intelligence and multi-tasking as well as vast technological archives without that pesky will to hold it back

Being able to freely access the warp allows everything from a limitless source of matter and energy to daemon powered weapons and tools to superior speed. It would not necesarily doom the whole galaxy, the necrons or the Tyranids would remain the most likely to sweep the board, but it would make Chaos a lot more powerful since they could enact mass AI adoption where as most of humanity could not even if they wanted since most of them are Imperials.
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Alot of choas factions already already binds demons into weapons and tools most notably the dark mechanicus. Having demonweapons makes them powerful but far from undefeatable especially because such weapons are expensive and notoriously unreliable. Even Chaos factions cannot freely access the warp as thining the boundaries and summoning demons requires rituals and sacrifices.

More than that though I bought mass adoption of Chaos AI would not be as seamless as you think. Considering the history of chos factions the corrupted AI would probably fight the rest of Chaos and each other as much as anyone else. Meanwhile the poliferation of non chos AI is not made impossible by the Imperiums hostility. For one thing the AI can just go undercover like Vita has.
 
Aliya said:
All of the problems you are pointing out are also applicable to us, so this seems like just scaremongering. If Psychic Shields hold up for us, they will hold up for whetever AI we will leave here.
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Well yes, the point being that it's probably not enough for us, the best we can to is hope we get lucky until we get better shielding, not that the shielding we have is enough. Push come to shove I trust Vita to blow herself up rather than allow herself to be corrupted by Chaos and I do not think we should put that on any newly made AI. 'Welcome to the world kid, don't forget your suicide protocols for the good of all sapient life'.

Questwolf said:
Alot of choas factions already already binds demons into weapons and tools most notably the dark mechanicus. Having demonweapons makes them powerful but far from undefeatable especially because such weapons are expensive and notoriously unreliable. Even Chaos factions cannot freely access the warp as thining the boundaries and summoning demons requires rituals and sacrifices.

More than that though I bought mass adoption of Chaos AI would not be as seamless as you think. Considering the history of chos factions the corrupted AI would probably fight the rest of Chaos and each other as much as anyone else. Meanwhile the poliferation of non chos AI is not made impossible by the Imperiums hostility. For one thing the AI can just go undercover like Vita has.
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There is a difference between shoving a daemon in a random cogitator bank and the AI who can turn rocks into Plasma weapons, as an example of some of the basic stuff we can pull.

Adoption would not have to be seamless to be devastating. It's an enormous game changer militarily and economically.
 
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DragonParadox said:
There is a difference between shoving a daemon in a random cogitator bank and the AI who can turn rocks into Plasma weapons, as an example of some of the basic stuff we can pull.

Adoption would not have to be seamless to be devastating. It's an enormous game changer militarily and economically.
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I mean the dark mechanicus can already make plasma weapons. right now there is nothing that Vita can make that the dark mechanicus cannot. I think the real game changer isn't what Vita is or what she knows (we only have a basic database). Instead it's how she thinks - her ability to problem solve, make friends and invent new technologies that give her such potential in the grimdark universe of 40k. A Vita puppeteered by a demon single mindedly bent towards carnage is a Vita with less potential to change the galaxy not more. The potential good her children could accomplish as they explore the galaxy far outways the potential harm in my opinion.
 
Turn 13 vote closed New
  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Neablis on Dec 9, 2024 at 6:00 AM, finished with 103 posts and 23 votes.
    • [X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order
      -[X] Diplomacy: The Summit of Denva II
      --[X] Well, with the back of the regressive folks decisively broken, the time has come to build something new. Fortunately, you're a lot better at this than you are at kinetic encounters. Using the contacts you've forged, the trust you've garnered, bring everyone to the bargaining table, acting as both mediator and arbitrator to any agreements made. At the end of the day, a world may be able to survive with their guns pointed at each other, but it'll always be an unstable situation that'll fall apart when an unplanned pressure is put on it. The Mechanicus of Denva must join hands with the people of Denva--this isn't even us saying that they need to give up all the secrets--we know and understand full well that Technology is hard and acquiring mastery of even a single branch of it can be the work of a lifetime even if you had unlimited access to knowledge--but extending that monopoly to even basic of the basic techniques and disciplines is doing nobody any favors--the Mechanicus need to waste time and energy on simple maintenance and manufacturing that could be taught to a well trained technician instead of furthering their Question for Knowledge, and the people meanwhile are bottlenecked in their growth and development. Nobody benefits from this, and we have a chance now to establish a system that actually gives everyone what they want instead of spending tremendous energy just to build and point weapons at each other. Help them out, provide incentives, anecdotes, and evidence backing our position, and hopefully we can develop a system that can stand the test of time. (TL;DR: Use all the groundwork we've built up over the course of the game to help hammer out a new order in Denva II, one that hopefully makes it damn clear that you can't expect to have your scientists have to do all the basic manufacturing and maintenance and still expect to have the time to further their own development. Use our database to support our arguments as needed, and don't be too afraid to release non militarized designs and concepts as carrots too.)
      --[X] Victan can hopefully give us a bonus on this.
      -[X] Diploversion?: Also, what's with the station?
      --[X] You're willing to continue the Work with Klyssar Station--goodness knows we'd like some reasonably up to date charts so we can figure out what's going on in the area ourselves. Promise our support, and prove it by way of not only sending them supplies, but reinforcements as well to help chew through their defenses. We'll also send our already established remote proxy to help coordinate any efforts, and determine f there's anything else we can do to assist the project.
      -[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
      --[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
      ---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
      --[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
      --[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
      --[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
      --[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
      --[X] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
      -[X] Research (200 + 25 RP)
      --[X] Biology is kinda wet (75 + 25 Anexa RP)
      --[X] A Study in Physics (125/150 RP)
      -[X] [ANEXA] Research - Biology is Kinda Wet
      -[X] [VICTAN] Communication - We're doing a lot of that this turn I notice, and I don't think we're being very subtle about it.
      [X] Plan: Seeing the road ahead
      -[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
      --[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
      ---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
      --[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
      --[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
      --[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
      --[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
      --[X] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
      -[x] Diplo: assist in the creation of a world-wide body to share uplift information, avoid wars, manage the reintegration of the admechs, and run a unified planetary defense.
      -[X] Diplo: develop and put in place a transition plan to remove the tech-control and totalitarian aspects of the admechs, focus on the creation of a research and collaboration ethos, and integrate the enclaves with the rest of Denva 2. Immediately end sevitorization.
      --[x] Victan: assist on integration of admech, from both sides
      -[x] Research (200 RP)
      --[x] Organic-Machine control (200 RP)
      -[x] Anexa: education
      [X] Plan: Nation Building
      -[X] Database Diving:
      --[X] Search for information about imperial ships in the cruiser class and compare and contrast them with what you know.
      -[X] Diplomacy, Mechanicus, 1 action:
      --[X] End the mechanicus tech monopoly.
      --[X] Try and arrange for the mechanicus to have a stable and productive long term position, so as to head off future conflict and integrate them with the rest of the planet.
      --[X] Begin investigating Klyssars nest and get more information on it.
      --[X] Technological Uplift: We're not going to close the entire tech gap, but we should make a dent in the most important parts of it, especially general life support - manufacturing, housing, food, medicine, power, and communications.
      -[X] Diplomacy, Denva, 1 action:
      --[X] Create some kind of United Nations, and other international institutions that can help the nations of Denva avoid conflict and societal decay and decline, including economic and environmental problems.
      --[X] Establish a system of publishing houses, covering art, science, journalism, and anything else that comes up, to support our efforts. Try to avoid stepping on the existing publishing industry too hard while we're at it.
      -[X] Construction, 1 Action: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
      --[X] 15x Manufactory (-1500 BP, -750 CP)
      --[X] 1x Spaceports (-100 BP, -25 CP)
      --[X] 10x Shuttles (-200 BP, -250 CP)
      --[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
      --[X] Klyssar's Nest Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using mechanicus infrastructure this turn)
      --[X] Technological support, associated payments and bribes for diplomatic actions, and Rent (-430 BP)
      --[X] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
      -[X] Research, 1 Action (200 + 25 RP)
      --[X] Biology is kinda wet (75 + 25 Anexa RP)
      --[X] A Study in Physics (125/150 RP)
      -[X] [ANEXA] Research - Biology is Kinda Wet
      -[X] [VICTAN] Passive Counter-Espionage & Communication
      [X]Plan: Hearts and Minds
      - [X]Free so far you have only worked directly with Avon, and when you first made contact with them, it almost ended with you blowing yourself up. It would be best if you spent some time to research the other nations so you aren't caught unawares.
      - [X] Diplomacy/Subversion:
      -- [X] Before you can make the mechanicus into a more respectable power that can work harmoniously with the people of Denva, you must first make sure they don't revert back to their old ways. Unfortunately, loath as you are to admit it, it seems unlikely that you will be able to get rid of all of the religious dogma the mechanicus couch themselves in. And, indeed, you have learned that the faith serves a purpose, though the exact reasons for that lay beyond your partition. Rather than completely dismantling the Mechanicus faith, it would be better to modernize it. Build it into something that can actually help people. In addition, you did just do a hostile take-over. Some people might even call it a coup. You *need* to do some image rehabilitation. Fortunately, both of these objectives can be accomplished in the same way. Teach. Teach loudly and in public, to everyone who will listen. Teach quietly in the shadows, to those who you know will do good with the knowledge. Teach those who support you, so they know you practice what you preach. Teach those who hate you, with action rather than words. And make sure, when you teach knowledge, you also teach wisdom. (TLDR: try and turn the mechanicus dogma around into something useful, and look good doing it)
      -- [X] Whilst Avon has been kept relatively abreast of your actions and developments, no one else has. This needs to change. The fact of the matter is that if you keep dealing solely with Avon, then the other countries will invariably fall behind. Inevitably, that will lead to resentment, and perhaps even war. It would be best to nip that problem in the bud. Create a Council of Nations (wait, maybe something with the acronym "CoN" is a bad idea, workshop the name) where you can talk to all the nations at once. If there is already one such organization, co-opt it. Ensure it has some amount of governing power by offering incentives in the form of tech and aid. Give it legitimacy by bringing the mechanicus to the table. And do your absolute best to build in checks and balances so it dosn't go corrupt the second you take your eyes off it. (TLDR: Make the UN and give it some oompf with our tech and control over the mechanicus)
      -[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
      --[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
      ---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
      --[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
      --[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
      --[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
      --[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
      --[X] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
      - [X] Research: (200 RP + 25 Anexa)
      -- [X] Biology is kinda wet actually (75+25 Anexa)
      -- [X]Advanced materials(125/300)
      [X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order, with starting Grand Cruiser Research
      -[X] Diplomacy: The Summit of Denva II
      --[X] Well, with the back of the regressive folks decisively broken, the time has come to build something new. Fortunately, you're a lot better at this than you are at kinetic encounters. Using the contacts you've forged, the trust you've garnered, bring everyone to the bargaining table, acting as both mediator and arbitrator to any agreements made. At the end of the day, a world may be able to survive with their guns pointed at each other, but it'll always be an unstable situation that'll fall apart when an unplanned pressure is put on it. The Mechanicus of Denva must join hands with the people of Denva--this isn't even us saying that they need to give up all the secrets--we know and understand full well that Technology is hard and acquiring mastery of even a single branch of it can be the work of a lifetime even if you had unlimited access to knowledge--but extending that monopoly to even basic of the basic techniques and disciplines is doing nobody any favors--the Mechanicus need to waste time and energy on simple maintenance and manufacturing that could be taught to a well trained technician instead of furthering their Question for Knowledge, and the people meanwhile are bottlenecked in their growth and development. Nobody benefits from this, and we have a chance now to establish a system that actually gives everyone what they want instead of spending tremendous energy just to build and point weapons at each other. Help them out, provide incentives, anecdotes, and evidence backing our position, and hopefully we can develop a system that can stand the test of time. (TL;DR: Use all the groundwork we've built up over the course of the game to help hammer out a new order in Denva II, one that hopefully makes it damn clear that you can't expect to have your scientists have to do all the basic manufacturing and maintenance and still expect to have the time to further their own development. Use our database to support our arguments as needed, and don't be too afraid to release non militarized designs and concepts as carrots too.)
      --[X] Victan can hopefully give us a bonus on this.
      -[X] Diploversion?: Also, what's with the station?
      --[X] You're willing to continue the Work with Klyssar Station--goodness knows we'd like some reasonably up to date charts so we can figure out what's going on in the area ourselves. Promise our support, and prove it by way of not only sending them supplies, but reinforcements as well to help chew through their defenses. We'll also send our already established remote proxy to help coordinate any efforts, and determine f there's anything else we can do to assist the project.
      -[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
      --[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
      ---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
      --[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
      --[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
      --[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
      --[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
      --[X] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
      -[X] Research (200 + 25 RP)
      --[X] Biology is kinda wet (75 + 25 Anexa RP)
      --[X] Heavy Cruisers (125/300 RP)
      -[X] [ANEXA] Biology is kinda wet
      -[X] [VICTAN] Communication - We're doing a lot of that this turn I notice, and I don't think we're being very subtle about it.
      [x] [X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order
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    Dice, need 3x d100s. Seperate people please.
    1st: The Summit of Denva II +17 modifier for Woman of Stone & Victan.
    2nd: What's with the station? +10 modifier for Woman of Stone
    3rd: Biology is kinda wet +20 modifier, Anexa action.
     
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  • Voting
    • Suddenly, I manifest a great beard, of such great weight that it shatters the wood of my coffee table. Screaming in terror at the closing of the vote, I tear at my face and suffer.

    Please, please, let us go to space today.

    EDIT: 57 after mods! Damn well Good Enough!
    Alectai threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: AIEEFAIIEEE, SAVE ME RNGEBUS! Total: 40
    40 40
     
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