Type Moon General
Well, as far as Things To Say To Your Kid Right Before You Go To Your Death goes, he pretty much covered what needed to be said. I'd've thrown in an I Love You and a hug, but the other stuff was integral to impressing upon her that she was the family head now, and that he had total confidence in her abilities in that regard and respected her, one family head to another.
... I just made it super obvious that my daddy issues are all related to not being taken seriously, didn't I.
The issue is that's not who Rin is. One of the underlying themes of Fate/Stay Night which many people miss is the traditional ideals your family instills on you are not always healthy. Rin's entire character is this conflict between the Mage her father wants her to be and the woman she actually is. Her father insists that she must be cold, calculating, distant and elegant. She must see the world in a lens where everything that leads to Akasha is justified. Except that's not who she is. Rin believes in honour, she hates it when people fuck with others for their own gain, she is desperate to have a family who cares for her and who she can care for.
I mean we see this with Shirou as well. Fate is the only route where he's ever going to live up to the full potential of that promise, but that's okay because the promise was more of a burden to him anyway.
Her life before the Holy Grail War was "I want to spend time with Sakura but she's been adopted out so I'll just stalk her for months instead." whether she realises it or not we are well past the point Rin has only some regret over that issue.
This by the way is why I can't take the view that UBW is Rin's story seriously. Her interaction and intentions regarding Sakura are literally one of the most important aspects of her character development and growth, mellowing out about being super-serious mage doesn't fix the fact she wants to have her sister over for Christmas and probably doesn't want her sister to be raped all the time.
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Well, duh. If that weren't one of the main themes intentionally I'd have even less respect for this franchise than I do already.
I just don't think it's totally wrong to try to get your magus kids to understand the political realities of magus life. You can't just teach them all the technical stuff you know and then set them loose. With Shirou it makes sense because Kiritsugu knew he'd probably never amount to much, magically, so there was every reason to just keep him out of magical affairs as much as possible. Rin's a prodigy; people try to use prodigies all the time.
In fact, one of my biggest problems with Tokiomi as a dad is his insufficient levels of cynicism. I mean, really, when Shirou trusts people too fast and Rin overextends the trust she does give out of loneliness, I'm okay with it; they're teenagers. Tokiomi is a grown man fighting in a winner-takes-all bloodbath, and he still acts like fair play is going to happen just because that's the way he'd prefer it. Someone like that can't be expected to raise a child with the appropriate level of
I'm beginning to understand why Zelretch was so sure this bloodline wouldn't descend into evil. They seem to have an irresistible familial predisposition toward wanting to make friends.
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Tokiomi expected fair play. The guy colluding with the Adjudicator and his son to cheat his way to victory expected fair play.
One of us has a very odd idea of what constitutes fair play.
One of us has a very odd idea of what constitutes fair play.
Nobody ever claimed Tokiomi was smart.
Fifty bucks says it's Tokiomi.
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
I don't think we can hold "not expecting Kirei to suddenly murder him because trolololevil!" against him, since everybody from Risei to Kirei's wife missed just how screwed up in the head he was.
- Location
- United States
why did Kirei's wife kill herself again? I think it was to make him happy or something wasn't?
- Location
- Bs. As.
I think there was a tiger dojo at the end of UBW which says that the route is more about the servants than anything else. It's been a couple of years so I'm not sure. But, as far as I'm concerned, UBW is the route where servants do awesome and the protagonist bangs Rin. HF is the route I look at when talking about the sisters.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To try and prove that he did in fact love her. Instead he cried for not being able to kill her himself.
She thought if she killed herself kirei would feel emotion. Kirei only thought about how he was disappointed he wasn't the one to kill her.
edit: ninjad
Kirei's wife was on his deathbed, and killed herself in an effort to prove to Kirei that he could feel sympathy/care about someone else.
Unfortunately, it backfired, because all Kirei got was "I wish I had been the one to kill her."
(Poor Kirei.)
... ninja x2
It's not Kirei that I'm feeling bad for there.
Well, a little, since apparently he was screwed in the head from day one just because, but it's really more his wife that I feel the most pity for.
I don't know. "I want to be good and my brain is very thoroughly wired for sadism" is a pretty pitiful state of being.
Think of his poor kid.
And here at the bar, the pianoman's found, another nail for my heart~!
Damn it, now that song's gonna be stuck in my head for the rest of the night.
I wonder what Kotomine's life would've been like if Hellsing were set in the Type-Moon universe and he'd joined Section XIII. I think Father Anderson would've been a good influence on him.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
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Guile
Having a really great time right now
I feel bad for Kirei.
I mean, that's not even sociopathy. It's actually kind of worse than 'merely' seeing the wants and needs of others as irrelevant.
He's pretty much Disney Evil.
I think the issue is he expects his enemies to cheat using magecraft, like Kayneth. All this use of bombs and evil Charisma is throwing him off.
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You brought this upon yourself.
Gil: Right from the moment that I met her, saw her/I said "She's gorgeous" and I fell~/Here in town there's only she/Who is beautiful as me/So I'm making plans to woo and marry Saber~!
Shinji: ... that doesn't rhyme or fit the metre.
Gil: The King is not beholden to your plebeian 'metric system'! All measurements shall henceforth be derived from the perfect proportions of my body!
Gil: Shinji, I'm afraid I've been thinking.
Shinji: ._. A dangerous pastime.
Gil: I know. But that dumbass Faker's Saber's 'Master' - and his sanity's only so-so.
*
Kuzuki: The Lesser Grail still lives, fairest in the land. 'Tis the heart of a pig that you hold in your hand. >: |
Caster: The heart of a pig?! >: <
*
Shinji: And when everyone's a magus... heh. No one will be.
*
Waver: Aren't you tired of living on the margins?!
*
Shirou: Don't you have parents, like the other little girls?
Illya: I had parents, once. They were strong... and they were taken from me. >: <
(Yeah, okay, fine, revisionist stuff isn't the usual Disney Evil, but come on, you know you guys'd take me to task if I tried to make Illya out to be a villain.)
It's not wrong to get them to understand the political realities of Magus life, but that's not what Tokiomi did. He impressed upon Rin that to be a magus she had to act in a certain way. Rin as she is currently is fully capable of engaging in the social battle she'll be involved in as a Mage, and at the end of every route she becomes quite successful despite the fact she always ends up 'weaker' then when she started. She doesn't trust Shirou because she's an idiot, she trusts Shirou because it's very clear he is this big sincere idiot(The fact she knows he beat the shit out of Shinji for being a dick to Sakura probably helps).
You can teach someone to not trust people implicitly without telling them they need to turn into a machine who's only goal should be Akasha. Tokiomi weakens the potential of Rin by burying who she is under his ubermagi bullshit.
I prefer to think of it as Rin bangs the protagonist. Like she has to do some serious convincing for Shirou to get moving. BUt yeah, that's fair.