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Type Moon General

Delphisage said:
Then @all fictions says that Nasu demanded nothing to be replaced,
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That's one weird way of reading what I said and what I linked. I said many people missed what that scene meant watching it, and then I referenced another scene of internal monologue from the VN that maybe should have been kept for viewers to make sense of that earlier scene and Shirou's psychology.

That Nasu was satisfied with it is one completely separate thing from the argument I was making since I did not say the scene in itself was bad, only that viewers got confused.

Maybe try not to reduct posts to the most uncharitable reading? Or at least not cut up a whole argument to just one of its point? You fear being dogpiled but then you do this like you are trying to bait people.
Delphisage said:
Also, let me just be baffled by that. "Shirou should never smile"? That is probably the chuuniest thing I've ever heard, even after playing the source material.
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Nasu literally explains in depth what he means, and seeing as you played the VN, you should get why (hint: PTSD).
 
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Delphisage said:
Wait, so @GilliamYaeger thinks they should've kept some and replaced others with something, and that it's Ufotable's fault.
Then @all fictions says that Nasu demanded nothing to be replaced, and also that Shirou should never ever smile or show happiness because of his tragic backstory, and yet still blames Ufotable? Confused face.

Also, let me just be baffled by that. "Shirou should never smile"? That is probably the chuuniest thing I've ever heard, even after playing the source material. I can only imagine Bobduh reading that line and then cringing so hard he'd turn inside-out, especially when he took so much offense to the edginess of the Worthy Opponent trope being displayed by Caster and Assassin in Episode 7.
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No, he's saying that there was a scene where someone notes that Shirou doesn't smile (because mentally he's basically a depressed, suicidal robot that exists only to help people out of both a ridiculous amount of survivors guilt/PTSD and the desire to be like his adoptive father) and it was pretty explicit.

And regarding the worthy opponent thing, the entire reason Assassin is even there is to have a good fight. He certainly couldn't give two shits about the Grail, and Servants can only be summoned willingly so he has to have a purpose for fighting in the war. And he's helping Caster both because of the command seals, and that he thinks her romance with her Master is adorable (which both it and she is).



See video. While it is from a gag show, it's pretty consistent with her characterization in Hollow Ataraxia.
 
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This is just like when ANN decided that Kirei was a sadist because of patriarchy as opposed to just being born a fucked up individual.
 
I'm pretty sure any anime/FSN community that review would be posted on would react the same way. Don't single out specific websites.
 
Don't whine about reviews like that. If you don't agree, whatever, but every person will come to their own conclusion on a piece of art and that is, frankly, the point.

Further, I have read both the visual novels and I have seen all the adaptations of the visual novel so far (save lost butterfly, obviously) and I'm kind of rolling my eyes a little. The only translation of Fate/stay night that exists is miserably bad, and while I appreciate the sheer effort Mirror Moon had to put in because it's like, millions of character bytes, it remains a poor translation. You aren't exactly getting the 'real thing' either, so get off your high horses.
 
Ford Prefect said:
Don't whine about reviews like that. If you don't agree, whatever, but every person will come to their own conclusion on a piece of art and that is, frankly, the point.
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What if the issue is that you feel guilty for liking the work under scrutiny because the review brands anyone who enjoys it unironically as immature?
 
That was a rather extremist position in that article. I wouldn't say you'd have to play the visual novel before watching the anime, but I would recommend at least reading or watching a let's play.

And even if the translation is 'terrible', it at least gives a better understanding of Shirou's thought processes than the anime. (though there is threads like this where posters give even better insights as to Shirou's thought processes.)
 
Ford Prefect said:
The only translation of Fate/stay night that exists is miserably bad, and while I appreciate the sheer effort Mirror Moon had to put in because it's like, millions of character bytes, it remains a poor translation.
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How's the translation bad? I know fallacies has pointed out a few differences between the original language and translation here, and there was something in F/SN the English community didn't know for a decade due to translation goofs (Rhinegold?), but was there anything else? Does this mean Tsukihime is poorly translated too, being done by the same group?
 
I wouldn't call it miserably bad. It's got it's fair share of errors and more, it's certainly no masterpiece, but it's not that bad. In terms of major oversights, mostly I think of some of the "Servants can't be hurt by mundane weapons" stuff and missing the bit about the gold of the Rhine, and that's about it?
 
Delphisage said:
What if the issue is that you feel guilty for liking the work under scrutiny because the review brands anyone who enjoys it unironically as immature?
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Then you just have to deal with it.

Mizu said:
How's the translation bad?
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It's just hugely awkward and stilted.

Madou Sutegobana said:
And even if the translation is 'terrible', it at least gives a better understanding of Shirou's thought processes than the anime.
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I don't think the insights into Shirou it gives are actually all that meaningful. Anything important is actually presented in an unspoken way in the better adaptations.
 
I mean, fundamentally, unspoken visual insights have the flaw of being hard to understand, having multiple interpretations, especially to people who are otherwise rather bad at emotions or people or faces ( :raises hand: ). I much prefer the textual medium being able to just straight up say things about what Shirou's thinking and why he acts the way he acts, rather than trying to psychoanalyze his microexpressions.

(why does firefox recgonize 'microaggressions' but not 'microexpressions' T.T)

Mizu said:
So, can they be hurt by them? I'm not entirely sure, honestly. They're spirits and so can only be hurt by spiritual stuff, yet they're also physical, so might be able to be hurt by stuff which hurts physical beings.
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Saber aside, they can always dematerialize -- but if they don't dematerialize, they can probably be hurt by normal weapons?

Well, there's also the matter of their Endurance Rank being something that 'exceeds the Common Sense', so I would actually expect that the effect of non-Ranked no-Mystery weapons to be significantly less against a Servant? But given how complete and utter overkill most weapons are against normal humans, that probably isn't actually enough to save a Servant that gets shot in the head and actually lets themselves get shot in the head for some reason.
 
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linkhyrule5 said:
But given how complete and utter overkill most weapons are against normal humans, that probably isn't actually enough to save a Servant that gets shot in the head and actually lets themselves get shot in the head for some reason.
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Well, there is that one time Sieg got shot directly in the heart three times over from near point-blank range in volume 4 of Apocrypha and IIRC the bullets didn't even fully penetrate it, he was able to force them out and start healing immediately once he started circulating magical energy. And that was without him being transformed at all, just having a Servant heart.
 
Can't say that I've ever had a mental picture for what Helen is supposed to look like, Nasuverse or otherwise, because she runs into the exact same problem as Aphrodite.
 
Mizu said:
What problem is that?
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Aphrodite's thing is that she is attraction (as well as a bunch of other things).

However, you start straying from that as soon as you start providing physical descriptions because different people have different notions of beauty. Never mind the differences that can exist between different times and places. If you stick to text, you can get away with descriptions that suggest attractiveness without actually having to mention any physical characteristics. In contrast, if you move on to visuals, well, good luck with that.

In other words, I don't have enough imagination to even start envisioning what the most beautiful woman in the world is supposed to look like.
 
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