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Type Moon General

Yonatan said:
im pretty sure EMIYA says so to Rin when he explains to her how he got summoned by her during UBW. Rin had no Catalyst, but EMIYA had her pendant, the one she used to revive Shirou. IIRC he said a Catalyst had to be used, and if the Magi had none then the Heroic Spirit should have one that connects it with the Magi.

is there any case of someone being summoned without a Catalyst? im unaware of such. even Shirou had Avalon without knowing it.
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Gilles and Uryuu. I'm also pretty sure that some of the Apocrypha Servants were summoned without catalysts, but don't quote me on that one.
 
A Nation's Virtue said:
Gilles and Uryuu. I'm also pretty sure that some of the Apocrypha Servants were summoned without catalysts, but don't quote me on that one.
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wasnt Gilles summoned because Uyruu found stuff related to the Holy Grail War from his family? dont know it if included a Catalyst or not.
either way, that may also be the corruption of the Grail that allowed something like Gilles to be summoned in the first place.
 
Yonatan said:
is there any case of someone being summoned without a Catalyst? im unaware of such. even Shirou had Avalon without knowing it.
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Ryuunouske had no catalyst, and yet still summoned Caster. Also, the fact that Rin didn't seem to care about doing the ritual without one (yeah, she had Archer's, but she didn't know that, did she?) suggests that it isn't necessary.
 
Yonatan said:
wasnt Gilles summoned because Uyruu found stuff related to the Holy Grail War from his family? dont know it if included a Catalyst or not.
either way, that may also be the corruption of the Grail that allowed something like Gilles to be summoned in the first place.
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The fact that he was allowed to be summoned had nothing to do with Uryuu's lack of a catalyst, and I just checked the wiki. He was summoned without a catalyst.
 
Did Uryuu have a catalyst when Gilles was summoned? Or did the Grail just go "Murderous psycho doing a semi magic ritual? Eh, I need seven, you'll do, have a murderous psycho magic Servant." ?

Edit:
Verrrrrrry late to the party.
 
Ben Who Devours said:
Ryuunouske had no catalyst, and yet still summoned Caster. Also, the fact that Rin didn't seem to care about doing the ritual without one (yeah, she had Archer's, but she didn't know that, did she?) suggests that it isn't necessary.
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EDIT:
Yonatan said:
wasnt Gilles summoned because Uyruu found stuff related to the Holy Grail War from his family? dont know it if included a Catalyst or not.
either way, that may also be the corruption of the Grail that allowed something like Gilles to be summoned in the first place.
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Uryu found stuff which was Grail-related, yes. He found directions for the ritual. There was no catalyst.
 
Mortifer said:
I'm going to assume you're not being serious, considering that that story is outright labelled humour, and Tohsaka (And, to a lesser degree, Gilgamesh) is acting OOC.
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I'm mostly joking, but has it ever been mentioned to Tokiomi that she's not actually being taught magic at all? Actually, it's not just that she's not being taught magic at all, her potential was downright destroyed by Zouken. I like to think that Tokiomi do have some sort of love for his children, albeit limited due to being a magus. Maybe he could take her back and just give her to another family or something, dunno. Kariya's being too stupid and hotheaded to not talk about it calmly with him, or even Aoi.
 
Feng Lengshun said:
I'm mostly joking, but has it ever been mentioned to Tokiomi that she's not actually being taught magic at all? Actually, it's not just that she's not being taught magic at all, her potential was downright destroyed by Zouken. I like to think that Tokiomi do have some sort of love for his children, albeit limited due to being a magus. Maybe he could take her back and just give her to another family or something, dunno. Kariya's being too stupid and hotheaded to not talk about it calmly with him, or even Aoi.
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I was under the impression Kariya thought Tokiomi knew, and still didnt act.

that would make his RAGE more understandable.
 
Feng Lengshun said:
I'm mostly joking, but has it ever been mentioned to Tokiomi that she's not actually being taught magic at all? Actually, it's not just that she's not being taught magic at all, her potential was downright destroyed by Zouken. I like to think that Tokiomi do have some sort of love for his children, albeit limited due to being a magus. Maybe he could take her back and just give her to another family or something, dunno. Kariya's being too stupid and hotheaded to not talk about it calmly with him, or even Aoi.
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I'm not sure if Kariya knew. Tokiomi on the other hand, definitely didn't know because he would've flipped had he known. Sakura's fate is exactly what he wanted to avoid by adopting her out.
 
I really can't see Tokiomi giving Kariya so much as the time of day, let alone acting on any accusations the Only Sane Matou put before him.

Remember that whole "traitor to magic" spiel he threw at him during their confrontation on the riverside?
 
Wade Garrett said:
I really can't see Tokiomi giving Kariya so much as the time of day, let alone acting on any accusations the Only Sane Matou put before him.

Remember that whole "traitor to magic" spiel he threw at him during their confrontation on the riverside?
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To be fair, neither one of them would've listened to the other. It's why I suggested that Kariya telling Aoi about Zouken's intentions for Sakura would've been his best course of action. She actually likes him. As a friend.
 
Wade Garrett said:
I really can't see Tokiomi giving Kariya so much as the time of day, let alone acting on any accusations the Only Sane Matou put before him.

Remember that whole "traitor to magic" spiel he threw at him during their confrontation on the riverside?
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Well... if the write-in and the dice roll was good enough... I mean, if he presented his case nicely enough and appealed to Tokiomi's father and magus side, he might be able to make Tokiomi check at the very least. You can get very far with good words and appeal to another's views.
Creticus said:
As a friend.
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Being Kariya is suffering.
 
Xellos said:
I mean, I can't blame him for trying, but his chances of winning are approximately equal to his nephew's in the Fifth.
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In Unlimited Blade Works Shinji and his Servant made it all the way to final.

His backup Servant, who had turned him into a bubbling pile of organic goop that was going to explode to bring forth the Grail, but still...
 
@Feng Lengshun, for the most part I'm going to stop the argument because it basically boils down to a difference in taste, but I'm really going to say Eastern perspective or not, what you're saying abuse is not just an opinion, but an opinion that continues to cause actual harm. The fact is psychology doesn't work that way.

Also Shinji got through UBW through Kirei coddling him. It's telling in every other route he dies.
 
Hmmm.

Kariya summons without a Catalyst. Kariya gets a Servant with an outlook similar to his.

A Servant who got friendzoned by the woman of his dreams, endured horror to attain magical powers, and is pissed off at the world about all of it.


........................



OPERATION GILLES DE RAIS: HERO OF
JUSTICE! is good to go.
 
anisarian said:
@Feng Lengshun, for the most part I'm going to stop the argument because it basically boils down to a difference in taste, but I'm really going to say Eastern perspective or not, what you're saying abuse is not just an opinion, but an opinion that continues to cause actual harm. The fact is psychology doesn't work that way.
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That I agree, I suppose. It's just that I don't really see anything I could learn from Sakura, thus nothing to admire, and she's not doing, or rather, she's not presented good enough for me to be empathic to her case. Pity? Yes, I pity her. But just that. I'm usually better than this, but... as I said, I really, really don't care about her.

Not to mention her situation was a little too... hard for me to take it seriously. It's like A Majcher Mistake all over again.
 
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