Okay so it seems I'm not the only one having issues formatting my posts, so if I miss anything sorry.
Realta Nua objects to that. And Shirou is not alone in UBW too, there are people who supports him.
I thought Realta Nua only says he eventually finds his way to Saber, a person who, I might remind you, destroyed herself for her Kingdom. Like, it's very noble and all, but it's pretty much a given that if Shirou goes out into the world to stab bad-guys and put himself in harms way to protect others he's eventually going to fall. I mean, it's a noble way to die I guess, but it's not the most healthy way to live.
Also I know he has support in UBW, my point is in HF
he is the support for people who are, frankly, stronger then he is. Sakura has bullshit levels of prana because of her role as the lesser grail and Rin is capable of sustaining his Reality Marble and Saber's prana while also using magic herself. And really, this is more a personal thing I suspect. I think Shirou is better at giving Sakura, Rin, Rider and whoever else joins his ever increasing family a home that they can always come back to then he is capable of fixing the world by hitting people with swords.
She has hope... that is that other people will fix her situation for her. Okay, I have hope that my teacher will give me nice score, but surprisingly, I need to actually take actions to realize that hope. It's just pointless self-pity and begging for sympathy when you say you have hope but not prove it with actions.
She could also get a safe space if she had tried to socialize better with others, or try to develop herself more as a person. Rather than cultivating the safe space by herself, it feels more like she's latching like a parasite into Shirou really.
Look could you tone down the 'she needs to improve her abuse on her own' stuff plz? She's had it repeatedly demonstrated that there is very little she can do, because every moment she lives is a moment Zouken decides not to kill her. Frankly, considering how poor off much less serious abuse can leave people, the fact that she's capable of living a relatively normal life is really impressive. It might annoy you about her character, which is something I don't get but can accept, but your phrasing is really uncomfortable since it basically says she's a failure for not navigating herself out of a really shitty situation she has very little control over.
Also, she does socialize outside of Shirou, for one thing she does Archery, which might be a thing she does because Shinji is an asshole, but she seems to get along well enough with the captain. That she prefers calm comfortable enviroments where she can relax around Taiga and Shirou does not make her a parasite either, I mean people find places comfortable, and sometimes those places happen to be places belonging to someone else. During High School a friend of mind spent a lot of time at my house over the weekends, because in that space he felt comfortable enough to relax in a way he couldn't at home. That doesn't make him some parasite stuck to me, it means he finds the place comfortable and I find his presence so.
So she belief that there's nothing she could do nothing so she decides to do nothing and accept the situation, just waiting others' help or for the hopelessness to end. Right, I definitely admire her. I should just keep to myself and not try to rebel against my fate, even when it's better to just go big or go home with my situation.
What is admirable about Sakura is that she remains strong enough to still have a will of her own despite frankly horrific circumstances. Her self confidence issues are a character flaw, not everything about her is positive.
My definition of 'being humane' isn't giving up, instead it would be that we are not perfect, but we can definitely do better. Humans are weak, but they can also become strong. Humans are flawed, but they have the potential to grow. Humans are selfish, but they can still do goods in spite of it. To me, humanity is best represented by potential, and the struggle to reach a better future. It's neutral, there are both good and bad, it's just a matter of perspective. And we definitely didn't get this far by wallowing in our weakness.
Perhaps it's because of this difference in view that HF doesn't feel great to me. I mean, compared to the previous routes this one just feels... pathetic? It would have been great if Shirou was actually shown the result of him choosing to save Sakura, but that plot thread aren't touched anymore after the Playground scene. We never even get to see any real consequence of his choice.
At least we could see how Shirou's belief puts him at odds with those important to him even if it is what draws them close to him at first in the other routes, but in HF that was done with in the Playground scene, so there should have been a replacement for it.
I don't think it's weakness to care about your family though. It's the unfortunate truth that fucked up Kiritsugu and Archer, and forces Shirou to make a his choice: do you risk the many to try and save someone important to you, or do you turn your Mind to Steel and stop the risk. The issue with this dilemma is
neither option is right, both are equally valid ideas. On one hand, risking people means you could, as occurs in HF, end up killing hundreds, but on the other, how human are we if we can kill even those we care about most?
I think the issue we have is your really talking purely in ideals, this grand idea of people dying for great causes and putting their values first. I don't know how it is for you, but for me, I don't know what I'd do if presented with that choice, I don't even know which I would
want to be able to do.
That I suspect is why a lot of people call HF human, because it forces us to confront a question a lot of people find uncomfortable. I mean, neither Fate nor UBW really present a
complex set of ideals for Shirou, even if it does explore them.
Something which I definitely do not agree, because from what I see, there are a lot of people who are Ally of Justice, who are trying to do good. The series portrayed it in a very narrow manner, like "Save one person you love or save 100 person you don't know," when in reality the situation are never that simple.
Taken in the context of the real world, it's definitely possible to pursue it. It just that you probably won't be able to do it if you are alone. As they said, an uncoordinated good will lose to a complex/coordinated evil; both Kiritsugu and Archer had always been alone, that's why they keep on failing. UBW Shirou was definitely not alone though, and Fate Shirou has the memories of Saber that supports him at the very least. It'll still be hard, sure, but there is no such thing as an excellent result without great effort.
Basically yeah, I agree that the story didn't believe that ideology, but it does so by giving us a narrow perspective, thus making it feels like the story is trying to force its believe to us by making up lies. So I rejected its reality, and takes it in my context of what I understand about the world
I don't actually question the idea that Hero!Shirou will be a force of good in the world, or that Kiritsugu and Archer have very warped views of the world, and I definitely don't think that the concept of being a hero is something the series disapproves of outright. After all, as Shirou says in UBW, it might be an impossible ideal, but it's still something to strive for. There's nothing wrong with that.
The issue does however really come down to the human element. I know I gush about Rin a lot, but my feeling on the plot is that people like Rin and Waver are the sorts of heroes you should truly admire. Not the murderously efficient like Kiritsugu, not the ruthlessly driven like Kariya, not the sadistic like Kirei, not the self-sacrificing like Saber. The ideal heroes are people who can balance between the ideas, who can look after themselves and those they care about while still caring about the world.
In UBW, Shirou might become that person, but my overall feeling is he really doesn't need to. Shirou has the perfect temperament to be a fantastic community pillar, his swords are not the only thing he can be, and saving people as an Ally of Justice is not the only way to live well.
The thing I love about Rin the most is how contradictory she is, how she's always vulnerable and weak when it counts. Her characterization prior to HF barely has a tie to Sakura,
I'm finishing here because this is really the last point I need to address. This just isn't true.
Rin is defined by her relationship with her family, specifically by two distinct pulls. Her memory and love of her father pulls her to become the Magi, uncaring, unfliching and brilliant. The sort of person who see's Shirou lying there and just walks away, rather then spending her most precious tool to save him. The other pull is her sister, the craving she has for familial bonds, the desire to have friends and live a normal life. The truth is though when it comes down to it she will never be the Magi, she cares to much. But there is one reason why I say that her characterisation prior to HF barely has a tie to Sakura.
The most defining choice she makes in the entire series was made for her sister. Out of love for her sister, she uses the most powerful weapon she has to bring Shirou back to life.
The plot doesn't ever say it, but once you finish HF and look back over it, so much makes sense in the context of Rin being really protective of her sister.
