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Type Moon General

So I like Shirou, he's a pretty cool dude and has an interesting arc across UBW and Heavens Feel and for once I actually understand what it is about him that the ladies like. No matter his form he has this naturally caring nature that really comes across with how he fusses around like a mother hen, then turns into ultra-protective crazy-person. I also like how he's got an actual character arc.

Having said that, watching this makes me very aware of something: he doesn't hold a candle to Rin. Overall Rin is probably one of my favorite characters ever, and she just has this charisma that makes her steal the scenes. Add into this that literally every route Rin is the one who actually comes up with the plans to win, and is generally pretty baller makes me incredibly sad that Rin isn't our protagonist.

Also, it's refreshing to see a female character who can be implusive (see her response to Archer being a troll) yet can also just be sarcastic and fuck with people. Her telling Shinji in no uncertain terms to go fuck himself was beautiful, and her responses to Archer once she worked out he's a trolling bastard where great.

Also something I have apparently missed, Rin tells Archer there is only one other mage family and they dun goofed their magic line, but she knows that isn't true, since a huge part of her character is her conflicted feelings on that matter (Are spoilers okay to post here? I'll refrain for now). It makes no sense that she doesn't even consider the Matoi a threat considering.
 
It occurred to me that possibly the best possible way they could've handled an UBW anime would be to make it Rin POV all the way through. I don't think they're going to do it, but a Rin-POV UBW anime would be my ideal UBW anime. She's even the "girl" of the route, as far as it goes in Fate anyway! :p

As for the Matous... I think she's operating under the (usually reasonable) assumption that reviving a bloodline takes time. They need to transplant the Crest and adapt to the different quirks and peculiarities. Magi think in generations after all, so I think Rin just assumes (as she has a tendency of doing!) that they're out of the game for at least a generation while they play catch-up. I think Rin is also aware of the rough level of training of the Matou magus, which we know isn't very much.

And she's right, even! The actual Matou play is basically a whim after all, a crapshot because they might as well. They're expecting to play for the Sixth, not the Fifth.

It's just that the Fifth War is full of fuck. :p
 
Usandru said:
It occurred to me that possibly the best possible way they could've handled an UBW anime would be to make it Rin POV all the way through. I don't think they're going to do it, but a Rin-POV UBW anime would be my ideal UBW anime. She's even the "girl" of the route, as far as it goes in Fate anyway! :p
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Ah, but a great part of the appeal is to identify yourself with the protagonist and romance the heroine. Can you imagine yourself as Rin, and having to romance Shirou? :p
 
Kintty said:
Ah, but a great part of the appeal is to identify yourself with the protagonist and romance the heroine. Can you imagine yourself as Rin, and having to romance Shirou? :p
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Knowing what he grows up into?

Yes.

Edit: I mean lets get real here, Shirou is an attractive guy who isn't completely dumb, is incredibly loyal and will do all the wifely duties your magi-ass is to lazy to do. The only downside is I don't get to fuck a lady Oh wait UBW Good End.
 
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Kintty said:
Ah, but a great part of the appeal is to identify yourself with the protagonist and romance the heroine. Can you imagine yourself as Rin, and having to romance Shirou? :p
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As it happens, I don't actually consider this appealing at all! I don't like audience stand-ins as a rule (thankfully Shirou isn't much of a one, he's far too much his own thing!), and usually what I end up doing is wanting to be the heroine. :p

In any case, Fate isn't much of a romance eroge in the first place. UBW in particular, the relationship is almost platonic. The dynamic is great, but it's not really romantic, IIRC.
 
Usandru said:
As it happens, I don't actually consider this appealing at all! I don't like audience stand-ins as a rule (thankfully Shirou isn't much of a one, he's far too much his own thing!), and usually what I end up doing is wanting to be the heroine. :p

In any case, Fate isn't much of a romance eroge in the first place. UBW in particular, the relationship is almost platonic. The dynamic is great, but it's not really romantic, IIRC.
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Heaven's Feel is pretty romantic honestly, I really like Shirou/Sakura as a pair.

Rin meanwhile bags someone in literally every route regardless of how involved Shirou is, so she's probably fine without him.
 
anisarian said:
Heaven's Feel is pretty romantic honestly, I really like Shirou/Sakura as a pair.

Rin meanwhile bags someone in literally every route regardless of how involved Shirou is, so she's probably fine without him.
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HF is definitely the "romantic" route. I think Fate is mostly "admiration" - though there's some love too - and UBW is "friendship/partnership". Unfortunately HF's romance doesn't work very well for me, because I'm not really fond of Sakura as a character. I consider her basically Kohaku (who I like), lacking most of the things that made Kohaku interesting.

It's a pretty neat contrast though. For all the flaws of the VN, the route split is really well done.
 
anisarian said:
Knowing what he grows up into?

Yes.
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No need to wait for him to grow up. Because, you know... spoilers.
Usandru said:
In any case, Fate isn't much of a romance eroge in the first place. UBW in particular, the relationship is almost platonic. The dynamic is great, but it's not really romantic, IIRC.
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HF on the other hand, doesn't have any qualms about throwing sex on your face. But yes, F/SN is relatively pretty tame when it comes to harem antics and sexualizing the heroines.
 
anisarian said:
Knowing what he grows up into?

Yes.

Edit: I mean lets get real here, Shirou is an attractive guy who isn't completely dumb, is incredibly loyal and will do all the wifely duties your magi-ass is to lazy to do. The only downside is I don't get to fuck a lady Oh wait UBW Good End.
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Not to mention you'd have great food for the rest of your life.
 
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Usandru said:
HF is definitely the "romantic" route. I think Fate is mostly "admiration" - though there's some love too - and UBW is "friendship/partnership". Unfortunately HF's romance doesn't work very well for me, because I'm not really fond of Sakura as a character. I consider her basically Kohaku (who I like), lacking most of the things that made Kohaku interesting.

It's a pretty neat contrast though. For all the flaws of the VN, the route split is really well done.
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I mean other then they're both abused people I can't really see how Sakura and Kohaku are the same. Kohaku's whole thing is how she masks her feelings at all times with her ridiculously happy faces, despite being slowly eaten up by the feelings inside of her. Her hate, her fear, her pain are all covered by this terrifying mask that she never lets slip.

Sakura doesn't do that. She hides her abuse from Shirou and Taiga because she is creating a safe space where she doesn't have to worry about the horror she experiences when she gets home. Kohaku's evil is to sort of slide slowly into it and then kill everyone, while Sakura just suddenly changes modes once she realises she is literally the most powerful person in the city and she doesn't actually need to let this shit happen to her anymore.

To put it another way, Kohaku is poision: meditated, deadly, takes time to prepare. Sakura is an explosive, under pressure for a long time before finally snapping (I might not know very much about explosions.)

Winged Knight said:
Not to mention you'd have great food for the rest of your life.
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If people want any further evidence that Rin is a harem protagonist not Shirou look no further then that Shirou is the perfect fucking waifu.
 
anisarian said:
I mean other then they're both abused people I can't really see how Sakura and Kohaku are the same. Kohaku's whole thing is how she masks her feelings at all times with her ridiculously happy faces, despite being slowly eaten up by the feelings inside of her. Her hate, her fear, her pain are all covered by this terrifying mask that she never lets slip.

Sakura doesn't do that. She hides her abuse from Shirou and Taiga because she is creating a safe space where she doesn't have to worry about the horror she experiences when she gets home. Kohaku's evil is to sort of slide slowly into it and then kill everyone, while Sakura just suddenly changes modes once she realises she is literally the most powerful person in the city and she doesn't actually need to let this shit happen to her anymore.

To put it another way, Kohaku is poision: meditated, deadly, takes time to prepare. Sakura is an explosive, under pressure for a long time before finally snapping (I might not know very much about explosions.)
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The way I see it, they're essentially the same story, told in different ways. They're both abused, they're both masking their inner nature and suppressing their emotions, they're both the final route girl and they both turn evil. Call it a Nasu archetype, perhaps.

I suppose it's possible that I began with "I think Sakura is an uninteresting character" and then made the comparison with Kohaku who is one of my favourites, and thus made the differences into failings, however I don't think it's a bad comparison even so. Their functions in the narrative are broadly similar.

I just consider Kohaku to be a character, and Sakura to often be more of a prop.
 
horngeek said:
a) they're going to handle the Prana Transfer Scene
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Well, when they made Kara no Kyoukai, Ufotable didn't have much problem showing a rape scene, so it's possible that the prana transfer ritual will happen on-screen. On the other hand, nothing plot-critical happens in the middle of the prams transfer ritual, so fade to black is more likely.

Personally, I'm hoping for CGI molluscs.
 
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