Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America

[Fanhunter696]

I'd actually rather have Sara and the Blades handle the Eyevines while the Devourers are kept at bay by the Dead and the Son plus Skirmishers handle the Woodflesh Spiders. It's a matter of availability. With the likely synergies and Sara's recent power boost, I imagine that both the Sara and Son options would be suitable for handling the Eyevines.

However, the Warrior's Son is far better suited for eliminating the Woodflesh Spiders, and since he will probably be less available next year, I think we should focus on getting the project we need him to do done. The fact that doing so would leave a Warrior's Son die free in exchange for that Dead die is a noticeable advantage as well.

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I mean, that was my first suggestion, let the skirmishers deal with the Spiders while the Blades cut the Eyevines nodes to their heart's content... But IIRC I thought we wanted to deal with the Devourers first (or at least at the same time as the rest of the pests) because we were afraid that they would expand into the old Spider or Eyevines territory if we didn´t deal with them first... And after dealing with the Eyevines Nodes we and the Devourers we could handle the Spiders with regular and militia dice...

But if you think we can let the Devourers alone for now, I would support it...

Hmm...I'm a bit worried on if Sara + Blades can find the Nodes to the same level that the Son + Skirmishers would be able to, but the description does mention "whispers of the spirits and some brave-hearted scouts", and Sara definitely has the spirits bit covered. And OOC Answer about the options didn't say anything about the Silent Blades doing poorly at Eyevine Node destruction, while it did for Woodflesh Spiders. Which would imply that the Silent Blades + Sara combo will be fine.

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I mean to find a node is basically following the vines until you reach the center and cut the Giant plant...

It is not rocket science, and we are probably going to get the bonus for the Blades...

 

[Chimeraguard]

I mean, that was my first suggestion, let the skirmishers deal with the Spiders while the Blades cut the Eyevines nodes to their heart's content... But IIRC I thought we wanted to deal with the Devourers first (or at least at the same time as the rest of the pests) because we were afraid that they would expand into the old Spider or Eyevines territory if we didn´t deal with them first... And after dealing with the Eyevines Nodes we and the Devourers we could handle the Spiders with regular and militia dice...

But if you think we can let the Devourers alone for now, I would support it...

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The important thing would be having our Dead dice be used against the Devourer Kingdoms, since the Bone Hives are small enough and Undead enough that the Many-Limbed Devourers can't do anything to them, but the Bone Hives can work to slowly but steadily deplete the Devourers' numbers, preventing them from expanding into the territory of other cleared Vermin.

We'd probably need to keep the Dead dice on the Devourers until either they're wiped out or we send in a serious force to finish them off, but it's doable.

 

[Fanhunter696]

The important thing would be having our Dead dice be used against the Devourer Kingdoms, since the Bone Hives are small enough and Undead enough that the Many-Limbed Devourers can't do anything to them, but the Bone Hives can work to slowly but steadily deplete the Devourers' numbers, preventing them from expanding into the territory of other cleared Vermin.

We'd probably need to keep the Dead dice on the Devourers until either they're wiped out or we send in a serious force to finish them off, but it's doable.

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I thought that with the Devourers we needed to hit them as hard in our first strike so that they don't form a swarm and attack us, that the first actions are very dangerous and that afterwards things get much easier...

So I would rather attack the Devourers this turn with all of our strength, or wait until we can use a lot of dead Dice in our first strike

 

[Chimeraguard]

I thought that with the Devourers we needed to hit them as hard in our first strike so that they don't form a swarm and attack us, that the first actions are very dangerous and that afterwards things get much easier...

So I would rather attack the Devourers this turn with all of our strength, or wait until we can use a lot of dead Dice in our first strike

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No, we got this from OldShadow.

Less risk, but less progress.
It will slowly chip away the devourers with undead insects.

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Assuming we're not misreading, it means we can instead use the Dead die to slowly chip away at the Devourers without triggering the Swarm.

It was even told to us as an option after you asked OldShadow about the utility of the Dead dice vs the Devourers.

 

[Fanhunter696]

No, we got this from OldShadow.
Assuming we're not misreading, it means we can instead use the Dead die to slowly chip away at the Devourers without triggering the Swarm.

It was even told to us as an option after you asked OldShadow about the utility of the Dead dice vs the Devourers.

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Yeah, but when I asked about it was to know if it would be useful putting the Hives fighting the Devourers alongside Sara, and the Blades...

I never planned on putting the Hives fighting alone against the Devourers...

 

[Hunter531]

What do people think about switching out The Great Mending for finishing off Winter Clothes? The way I see it, Mending has three benefits beyond completing The People's Will. It gives us a small but significant boost in Morale, it reduces unrest, and lets us save our furs for trading. Our fur supply is high enough at the moment that I'm more worried about selling too much to Strongarm rather than not selling enough and we've done a lot to reduce unrest already. As for Morale, I strongly suspect that equipping all of Union with winter clothing before Winter hits will lead to a Morale boost. As such, I'm thinking we should delay the Great Mending until next year.

 

[Chimeraguard]

What do people think about switching out The Great Mending for finishing off Winter Clothes? The way I see it, Mending has three benefits beyond completing The People's Will. It gives us a small but significant boost in Morale, it reduces unrest, and lets us save our furs for trading. Our fur supply is high enough at the moment that I'm more worried about selling too much to Strongarm rather than not selling enough and we've done a lot to reduce unrest already. As for Morale, I strongly suspect that equipping all of Union with winter clothing before Winter hits will lead to a Morale boost. As such, I'm thinking we should delay the Great Mending until next year.

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Hmm, issue is that we have enough regular Winter Clothes (3/5 required I believe, unless that numbercount's gone up.) that I wanted what we had left in that regard to be covered by Lordskin. Especially since two sets is what's required for the Militia, and I'm sure there's a more significant advantage than usual for the Militia having Winter Clothes that double as armor during the Winter. And I want to save at least one set of furs for making Protective Clothing.

Also, I think the fears of setting off a gold rush by selling normal furs/pelts are greatly overblown. Beaver furs were one thing, but normal pelts are from things like deer (and admittedly, the Hairy, but they were still registered as normal pelts rather than anything unique like beaver pelts were), and nothing we've seen indicates that the deer of the New World have anything special about their pelts. I don't think knowing that there's a lot of deer is going to kick off a massive rush, there's still plenty of those in Europe.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

To be fair we gain two furs every turn now with previously nixkamich passive is gaining one fur every turn and now the deer herd gives us one fur and food per turn so I guess we can feasible do the fully equipping union with winter clothing and still have a surplus going on for later things.

 

[Chimeraguard]

To be fair we gain two furs every turn now with previously nixkamich passive is gaining one fur every turn and now the deer herd gives us one fur and food per turn so I guess we can feasible do the fully equipping union with winter clothing and still have a surplus going on for later things.

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No, I'm pretty sure the only fur gain passive we have is for the deer herd.

And furthermore, I highly doubt it's as productive as one unit of furs per turn. I expect it to be more like one set of furs (plus some meat) per year. Which would make it equivalent to a single basic Hunting action that we don't have to spend dice on.

 

[Amilia]

What do people think about switching out The Great Mending for finishing off Winter Clothes?

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No. Normal clothes will go a long way into making people feel comfortable and start moving them away from a survival mentality.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

Deers Herd : The Shepherds are willing to instruct some of their herds of deers to live in the wilds near Union, to not fear our people and to spend each Winter between the town's walls. (Max 1) : 4 points, will provide a passive source of Food and Leather.

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Weirdly enough we are not getting furs from the deer same as nixkamich passive so does leather equate to mundane furs found anywhere and something like beaver or bear fur is considered something else?
Also nixkamich passive here.

Nixkamich will automatically produce leather for the town

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[Chimeraguard]

Weirdly enough we are not getting furs from the deer same as nixkamich passive so does leather equate to mundane furs found anywhere and something like beaver or bear fur is considered something else?

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Nixkamich doesn't give us a passive income of leather, he just makes sure that we can turn and pelts/furs we find into leather. We still have to go out and acquire the pelts ourselves.

And the deer would just provide Normal Furs/Leather. They're the same, or at least similar, kind of deer that we hunt, just semi-domesticated.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

Weird cause I checked turns 9 and ten on our leather/fur situation and at 9 we had one fur and we used it to make some winter clothing and at ten we also had one and that was before our hunt at the planning phase so naturally assumed it was nixkamich passive giving leather each turn.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Hmm. I think in that case it's just a mistake and we either shouldn't have had any furs in stock this turn to make Winter Clothing with.

Or it'll use one of the two units of Normal Furs/Leather we got from Hunting this turn.

But it makes no sense for Nixkamich to be able to just create leather out of nothing. He's not some super-hunter himself who can just go into the Wilds every turn and come back with a full unit of furs.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

Hhm we need to ask @OldShadow about it so I'm gonna

So about nixkamich passive is it actually gaining one leather per turn or is it something like having the ability to make leather cause turns 9 and ten we had one leather each and at nine we had used it to make winter clothing and at ten we had one leather that if latter is true we couldn't have. Also is the deer herds passive of Food and furs is it per turn or just the year.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Nixkamich's passive can't be gaining one leather a turn though, because the from Turn 7 we had 2 units of Leather and used one, and then at the start of Turn 9 (after Winter) we went down to 1 unit of Leather.

So I'm pretty certain it was just an error that we had a unit of leather left over this turn.

It also makes no logical sense for him to be able to create leather without the pelts to make it out of having been gathered beforehand.

As for the deer, if they were to give meat and furs every single turn it would be ridiculously overpowered from a gameplay perspective. Plus, in order to get meat and furs from deer, we have to kill them. Deer only have a single mating season a year, so if we're acquiring it from the herd every single turn, then we'd be killing the deer of the domesticated herd far faster than they're replenishing.

 

[OldShadow]

Hhm we need to ask @OldShadow about it so I'm gonna

So about nixkamich passive is it actually gaining one leather per turn or is it something like having the ability to make leather cause turns 9 and ten we had one leather each and at nine we had used it to make winter clothing and at ten we had one leather that if latter is true we couldn't have. Also is the deer herds passive of Food and furs is it per turn or just the year.

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Nixkamich passive turn the skins and pelts of Union's kills into usable leather and furs.
I made a mistake beetween turn, see it as Union having found some new pelts in a forgotten Winter Walkers cache.

The Herd give one season of food and two units of leather each year (added in Spring)
Not that much, but you get thoses for free, you don't even need to sheperd the deers, just make sure to keep the worst predators away from the wilds near Union and protect the deers in Winter.

 

[Lurking_Badger]

The main narrative in regarding the war against Dracula is that of the HRE and Ottomans, the two biggest claimants to being successors of Rome during this period, needing to fight side by side against the threat of Dracula. It's a great narrative, and is especially fitting if you're aware of how the conflict between the HRE and Ottomans helped lead to Vlad the Impaler gaining power in the first place.

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I think that you might have something a bit mixed up here. The Hapsburgs and Ottomans haven't teamed up to fight Dracula. In fact, they are both still in conflict with each other despite Dracula being a threat.

The Ottoman are allied with the Dual Monarchy against the Hasburg, even if they had difficulty since Transylvania is now more or less a wasteland only inhabited by those that swore themselves to darkness, and the Balkans in desperate need of help to deal with what is coming from it.
And of course everyone is too occupied to deal with Transylvania.

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It makes sense that Transylvania becoming almost impassible is only causing them difficulties instead of stopping them, since that was basically how it worked anyways. The country is almost completely surrounded by mountains except for some passes and two openings to the west.

The Ottomans can completely go around it by going south through Wallachia to Serbia, then north from Serbia to Hungary. They also control Greece which gives them a route through the Mediterranean Sea to the same area. The funny thing is that the Ottomans where able to conquer Serbia, parts of Greece, and Bosnia during Dracula's rule … because he was a willing vassal to the Ottomans. He only really turned against them in the last 14 years of his life; 13 of those years were in Hungarian prison.

Anyway, the main group of Europeans trying to press people to deal with the Transylvania issue are the Church, which is obviously because of the occult nonsense seeping out of it.

There is a rumor of the Church planing an official meeting of the Christian world with the Ottomans to plan actions against Dracula.

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I mostly wrote this because I spent too much time researching the history of the Ottoman expansion into the Balkans and the personal history of Vlad III Dracula to just not say anything. Someone release me from my compulsion to research things for hours.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

Wait I just checked again where big Hotspot are and Albania Is one so is Skanderbeg like vlad and turned Albania to a second transylvania.

 

[OldShadow]

Wait I just checked again where big Hotspot are and Albania Is one so is Skanderbeg like vlad and turned Albania to a second transylvania.

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No
But in general, living in the Balkans is pain.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Less risk, but less progress.
It will slowly chip away the devourers with undead insects.

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Say, can you elaborate on this usage of the Dead die against the Many-Limbed Devourers? Is this just talking about if they're involved in the intial fighting, or does the use of the Bone Hives unlock another option where we can use them to whittle down the Devourers without provoking the swarm, so long as we only use the Bone Hives?

 

[Hunter531]

Hmm, issue is that we have enough regular Winter Clothes (3/5 required I believe, unless that numbercount's gone up.) that I wanted what we had left in that regard to be covered by Lordskin. Especially since two sets is what's required for the Militia, and I'm sure there's a more significant advantage than usual for the Militia having Winter Clothes that double as armor during the Winter. And I want to save at least one set of furs for making Protective Clothing.

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I agree with you that we should go for Lordskin on the Militia eventually. Thankfully, the cruelty of Winter means that there will probably always be a market for winter clothing amongst the locals.

As for having a set of furs in reserve for Protective Clothing, I think we can afford to drop our reserve down to zero non-Beaver furs for one turn. It helps that I think we have a good chance of getting those meat and furs from the deer either during this fall or Winter. Those are the natural choices for when to cull the herd, since that's when food gets scarce.

Also, I think the fears of setting off a gold rush by selling normal furs/pelts are greatly overblown. Beaver furs were one thing, but normal pelts are from things like deer (and admittedly, the Hairy, but they were still registered as normal pelts rather than anything unique like beaver pelts were), and nothing we've seen indicates that the deer of the New World have anything special about their pelts. I don't think knowing that there's a lot of deer is going to kick off a massive rush, there's still plenty of those in Europe.

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Normal furs can still lead to an increased interest in New World colonization. Normal furs are less profitable than Beaver ones, but if we sell enough of them in a short enough period, then Strongarm could make enough money to justify someone else trying to replicate our success. Just because furs are already available in Europe doesn't make them unprofitable to import from the New World. Strongarm being willing to buy them is proof of that.

No. Normal clothes will go a long way into making people feel comfortable and start moving them away from a survival mentality.

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Hmm, sounds like it would synergize with Remember the Fallen then, since they both involve trying to move the people of Union away from a survival mentality. That's more reason why I would like to do Mending this Spring. Mending is a good action, one that I'm looking forward to doing. It's just not as good as doing two units of Winter Clothing ant present time imo.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Normal furs can still lead to an increased interest in New World colonization. Normal furs are less profitable than Beaver ones, but if we sell enough of them in a short enough period, then Strongarm could make enough money to justify someone else trying to replicate our success. Just because furs are already available in Europe doesn't make them unprofitable to import from the New World. Strongarm being willing to buy them is proof of that.

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Sure, but in the larger scheme of things I doubt it matters that much. After what happened to Johnstown, the two main types of people who will be coming to the New World to settle would be either those foolish or desperate enough that they'd be coming anyway (particularly since we already sold beaver pelts), or major endeavors that are backed either by governments or extremely wealthy private individuals or organizations.

The former would be coming regardless of how many deer pelts we sell, while the latter operate on a large enough scale that a large amount of regular pelts would not be of any particular appeal to them.

Strongarm is taking advantage of trade with a pre-existing settlement after all. Setting up a new settlement is a far more expensive proposition. While people with the self-delusion to believe that their much smaller and less well-equipped colony will surely succeed where Johnstown failed, those sorts of people would come regardless of whether there's a larger amount of furs being sold or not.

Plus, even with everything we sell, we're still only partially filling up a single Fluyt's cargo hold rather than anything particularly impressive. I'd expect us to need to sell like, double digits of furs and leather in one sitting before we even start raising eyebrows.

 

[Hunter531]

Sure, but in the larger scheme of things I doubt it matters that much. After what happened to Johnstown, the two main types of people who will be coming to the New World to settle would be either those foolish or desperate enough that they'd be coming anyway (particularly since we already sold beaver pelts), or major endeavors that are backed either by governments or extremely wealthy private individuals or organizations.

The former would be coming regardless of how many deer pelts we sell, while the latter operate on a large enough scale that a large amount of regular pelts would not be of any particular appeal to them.

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I'm not so much worried about the folks coming to the New World as those who won't be coming. The backers and financiers who wouldn't dare step foot in the New World themselves, but who would be happy to fund others' efforts to do so if it can be shown that doing so is in their best interests.

As for them not being interested in normal furs, this is a horror-style take on the 17th century. Furs were pricy enough to be worth importing from the New World and bloody Siberia during this period OTL, and I can't imagine that the risk of hunters getting killed by one of the many folkloric monsters that haunt forests has depressed prices any.

Worse, guess which country was the main fur exporter in the Old World during this period OTL. That's right, it's Russia, who are probably still recovering from the Time of Troubles, if the local equivalents of Winter's forces haven't extended that period of crisis (big if). So yeah, I think you're really underestimating how much furs are worth in the Old World.

Strongarm is taking advantage of trade with a pre-existing settlement after all. Setting up a new settlement is a far more expensive proposition. While people with the self-delusion to believe that their much smaller and less well-equipped colony will surely succeed where Johnstown failed, those sorts of people would come regardless of whether there's a larger amount of furs being sold or not.

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To be fair, any potential future settlements will have a massive advantage over the original Johnstown settlers in that the backers will know what they're getting into. As such, they can spend their resources far more wisely than the Johnstown backers did (more guns, hardened veterans for colonists, etc.). I am fairly confident that it is possible for a smaller, less well-funded colony to survive on its own given those advantages. I'm almost dead certain that such a colony could survive if placed in the shadow of Union for protection.

Plus, even with everything we sell, we're still only partially filling up a single Fluyt's cargo hold rather than anything particularly impressive. I'd expect us to need to sell like, double digits of furs and leather in one sitting before we even start raising eyebrows.

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If we manage to sell double digits of value in furs, we will probably do a lot more than raise a few eyebrows. Our fur revenues would be greater than our gunpowder costs by a significant margin, even with the sizable percentage Strongarm is no doubt taking. Potential backers for colonial backers will take notice, and interest in starting new colonial ventures will skyrocket.

I think the highest possible value limit before problems arise is 7, which is how much we "spend" on gunpowder each year. Still, I think 5 is a more probable number and wouldn't feel comfortable with more than 3 or 4. I'll probably spend an OOC question on this subject at some point, if only for the sake of my anxiety.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Yeah, but when I asked about it was to know if it would be useful putting the Hives fighting the Devourers alongside Sara, and the Blades...

I never planned on putting the Hives fighting alone against the Devourers...

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Okay so, I was looking at my current plan, and it occurred to me that there might be a way we can take on all three of the Vermin at once. So, here's my current plan draft.


[ ] Plan Pest Control
Fields
-[ ] Harvest [Task] (3 dice) (1 Colonist die, 1 Unhardened Colonist die, 1 Native die)
Wilds
-[ ] Rebuild the Peaceful Wilds
--[ ] Further out [0/100] (1 Colonist die, 1 Native die)
--[ ] Sulfur Paths [0/75] (1 Colonist die)
-[ ] Gathering Expedition [DC 20/80/120] (1 Colonist die, 1 Native die)
-[ ] Purge the Vermin [Away With the Pests] [Risky]
--[ ] The Tower of Eyes [Vermin][???]
---[ ] Strike down the Node (Risky) [0/75] (2 Silent Blades dice, 1 Personal die)
--[ ] The Devourer Kingdoms [Vermin] [???] (1 Dead die)
--[ ] Webs and Vines [Vermin] [???] (2 Warrior's Son dice, 2 Son's Skirmishers dice)
Town
-[ ] The Food Traps [0/25] (1 Native die)
-[ ] To protect animals [0/75] (1 Colonist die)
-[ ] Train the Militia against monsters [Militia]
--[ ] Spread and Regroup [10/75] (1 Militia die)
Crafting (7 Craft Points)
-[ ] Make tools for the Shepherds [1 Craft, 1 unit of Mediocre Steel]
-[ ] Smith the Lord's Remnants [1 Craft, 1 unit of Lord's Bone] (Will trigger a quality roll)
--[ ] Weapons
-[ ] The Great Mending [2 Craft, 1 unit of Fabric]
-[ ] The Giant's Shield [2 Craft, 1 unit of Excellent Wood] (Will trigger a quality roll)
-[ ] Elixir of Wakefulness [1 Craft]
Raids, Expeditions and Diplomacy
-[ ] Follow the Path [0/100] (1 Colonist die, 1 Alexandre die)
Knowledge
-[ ] Free the Enslaved [21/100] (1 Failure Die)
-[ ] Heal the Wounded
--[ ] We shall patch the wounds of their vessels and ensure the trees are healthy [DC ??] (1 Unchained die)
---[ ] Write-In: Set aside a unit of Excellent Bark to be expended in this if it is deemed beneficial.
-[ ] Rites of Death [Death] [Freed] (2 Mourner dice, 1 Unchained die)
The Council
-[ ] Give power to the Assembly [DC 30/ ??/??] (2 Council dice, 1 Andreyas die)
-[ ] Funerary Practices [DC 25/75/ ???] (1 Council die)
Death Singing
-[ ] Teach the Shepherds (1 Personal die)
Sara Smith, the Mourner
-[ ] Tales of the Saints and Heroes [DC 20/50/??]
--[ ] Saint Lazarus, the Resurrected, patron of the ills and cursed (1 Personal die)
-[ ] Select Candidates
--[ ] Andreyas Sarsas [Free, no die needed]

Dice Remaining: 1 Colonist die

(Last Colonist die is being held in reserve for whatever other urgent projects might need it, like dog-taming or more hands at the harvest.)

It assumes that we can in fact, do the whole "whittle down the Many-Limbed Devourers using the Bone Hives" on their own, which hasn't actually been hard-confirmed by OldShadow yet.

However, it's occurred to me that we can actually get a total of 3 dice onto the Many-Limbed Devourers. Our Dead die would be one die, but we could also theoretically take the Militia away from Spread and Regroup (which isn't likely to be that useful during the Winter where if the big monsters have gotten past the walls we're already screwed), and taking Andreyas away from the Council (with Funerary Practices only needing 1 die, whatever other action we do there should only require 2 dice.) That would give us a total of 3 dice to use against the Many-Limbed Devourers.

Now, this has its risks, especially since 2/3 dice will be the Living. With 3 dice, the risk DC for fighting the Many-Limbed Devourers is 20 (10 for the Dead.) Which is relatively high.

But on that note, I think with this hypothetical plan it's best to look over the risk factors for all three Vermin Campaigns.

-Eyevine Nodes: 2x Silent Blades dice, 1x Sara die. Estimated Risk Threshold of 10 DC per die (20 DC for more generic dice, assuming Sara's boost to combat means she is on Blades/Skirmishers level of resilient.)
-Many Limbed Devourers: 1 Dead die, 1 Militia die, 1 Andreyas die. Estimated Risk Threshold of 20 DC per die (10 DC for Dead die.) Risk Threshold can be reduced by 10 by adding one more die.
-Woodflesh Spiders: 2x Warrior's Son dice, 2x Son's Skirmisher dice. (10 DC per die)

This would be a total of 10 dice, 2 (maybe 3 if Sara's still vulnerable) needing to pass a 20 DC and 7-8 needing to pass a 10 DC. I should also note that besides omakes rewards which can be used to save dice (of which we have a lot right now), we would also have access to 2 re-rolls for this.

But risks aside, this would be a major investment, and if there's non-Great Hunt issues that we need to resolve before Winter (like more shelter for the animals for example), we're gonna need to sacrifice projects in order to get that work done.

So I think the question should be asked on if we want to go with this maximalist Hunt project, or maybe we want to be more conservative and only go for the two threats of the Eyevines and Devourers that have higher growth rates, saving the Woodflesh Spiders for later (alternatively, we could split the Son and Skirmishers with one pair of each die on both while Blades + Sara handle the Devourers, which should be enough to clear out the first Eyevine Node even on below-average node while still putting pressure on the Spiders, but wouldn't give us a chance of outright completing one of the Vermin on Turn 11.)